E.B.S.I.S. - Eastern Baltic Soveriegn Independant States

ZINO · Unread post by **ZINO** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:39 pm

awesome man!!!

Seto Kaiba · Unread post by **Seto Kaiba** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:34 pm

glitterboy2098 wrote:MSpaint.

Hm... if anything, that makes it more impressive. I wonder what you could do if you used a more powerful tool like Gimp or Photoshop.

Tiree · Unread post by **Tiree** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:46 pm

Paint.net is very similar to Paint's feel, but with extra (and better) tools!

glitterboy2098 · Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:33 am

actually, i tried paint.net for a while, but there were too many tools.. i'm used to MSpaint, and did most of my art using it. Paint.net left me confused from information overload.

though with the VF, i was just modifying art, mostly by Bagera3005 on deviantart.

this is what i consider some of my best work.. though i really want to fix the cockpit on that one at some point..

ESalter · Unread post by **ESalter** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:35 pm

Gryphon wrote:Query: Is it actually canon that the Earth knew how large a Zentraedi tended to be in ~2000 or so? I presume so, but now I can't recall one way or the other for sure.

Well, according to Roy, the "battloids" were designed as a specific counter to giant humanoids, so they knew they were big. The SDF-1 was built for a giant crew, so maybe they got their size from there.

Seto Kaiba · Unread post by **Seto Kaiba** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:23 am

Gryphon wrote:I mean, other than Breetai, the VF-1 and most Zentraedi see eye to eye, which sounds cool, till you realize that very few Zentraedi fight outside of their Battlepods or Male Power armor, and both are significantly taller than a VF-1. I always sort of wondered why the main human mecha was scaled appropriate to a foe it wold rarely actually see until after Dolza bought it in orbit?!

The Robotech version of events doesn't really explain why humanity settled on 12.68m (41'7") for the VF-1, except a brief mention that they were made to fight giant aliens. In a turn of events I'm sure you saw coming a few miles off, there was a more detailed answer in the original Macross... namely, that humanity didn't know about battle pods or battle suits, and deliberately constrained the VF-1's size to roughly the size they expected the aliens to be. Naturally, after the war, new VFs were designed to be much larger in both Macross universes. Most of the later models are around the same size as a Zentradi or Meltrandi battle suit.

Gryphon wrote:It's not like they couldn't have scaled off the actual F-14 and ended up with a taller unit after all.

*cough* It happened, it just didn't happen in Robotech... right here, in fact.

glitterboy2098 · Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:59 am

i'd imagine if there were official stats for it, one of the two would have it by now.

for a general idea of the VF-0 vs Vf-1 scale..
Fighter Mode
battloids from Seto's site

the VF-0 is actually taller than some of it's much later descendants, if that chart is even close to correct. (Seto, i'm guessing it was based on inferred dimensions, rather than official ones?)

Seto Kaiba · Unread post by **Seto Kaiba** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:00 pm

Gryphon wrote:Huh, that makes sense I guess. Though I hadn't realized the VF-0 was that much taller.

Yeah, it's a big one.

Gryphon wrote:Come to think of it, neither MMM nor Mac Compendium have the actual heights for battloid listed, is that an oversight, or has it not been expresses as canon yet.

There are literally hundreds of updates that need to be made to various M3 articles... life just hasn't cooperated when we tried to find free time to make many of them. There are major art and stats updates pending, plus a bunch of new mecha from the Macross Frontier movies and Macross the Ride. I believe the battroid mode heights were taken from either an issue of Great Mechanics, Great Mechanics DX, or the first volume (of two) of Variable Fighter Master File: VF-1 Valkyrie.

glitterboy2098 wrote:i'd imagine if there were official stats for it, one of the two would have it by now.

It's probably buried somewhere in the update queue... I'm rescanning ALL of the Macross II section art at higher dpi for starters. That's where we found that detailed diagram of the Spartas hovertank's transformation from Southern Cross... it was one of the designs shown to have been inspired by Macross in that issue of B-Club.

glitterboy2098 wrote:for a general idea of the VF-0 vs Vf-1 scale..
Fighter Mode
battloids from Seto's site

That first image is actually from the aforementioned coverage of the VF-0 Phoenix in Variable Fighter Master File: VF-1 Valkyrie. There's supposed to be a fifth volume of the series, Variable Fighter Master File: VF-0 Phoenix, coming out at the end of this month.

glitterboy2098 wrote:the VF-0 is actually taller than some of it's much later descendants, if that chart is even close to correct. (Seto, i'm guessing it was based on inferred dimensions, rather than official ones?)

It's correct... the VF-0 is considerably larger than many of its later descendants, because it was designed and built early on (~2004) as a testbed for the variable system (and, later, other technologies like energy conversion armor, active stealth, etc.) using input from the F-14 experimental systems group.

Chris0013 · Unread post by **Chris0013** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:37 pm

Go away for a while and look at all the fun that was had w/out me......

@GB2098...some of your links are not working for me....not sure if others are having the same issue. What are the dimensions as opposed to the VF-1??

glitterboy2098 · Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:26 am

sorry, i had to reorganize my photobucket account the other day, and a lot of stuff got moved in the process. one sec..

here

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:34 pm

glitterboy2098 wrote:sorry, i had to reorganize my photobucket account the other day, and a lot of stuff got moved in the process. one sec..

here

"Everything the F-14 is good at, condensed, improved, revamped, revised, and made cooler."

Chris0013 · Unread post by **Chris0013** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:56 pm

Have you considered a micronian battle pod???

glitterboy2098 · Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:25 pm

not particularly.. the old RPG's human built battlepod doesn't really fit my Baltic's aesthetics, and i just can't really see them duplicating the zentraedi pods in miniature.

i do eventually plan to have some modified zentraedi mecha when i get around to describing the Varangian legion in more detail.. basically these would be simple upgrades to the zent mecha to make them more effective. things like applique armor to boost the MDC and additional weapons added via the "bolt it on" methods. of the later, it would mostly be things like machineguns on remote weapons stations or Grad rocket packs, that sort of thing.

way more professional than an IMU and definately better thought out than the old RPG's modified pods..

glitterboy2098 · Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:04 pm

near final EBSIS Veritech design:

Su-57 (VF-3) Vampir
notations (uses a slightly older version of the image.. i had to tweak the tail a bit after making it)
comparison (again, slightly older image)

decided to try out the FSW approach, using Su-47derived planform, and folding wings based on a Sukhoi's forward swept wing naval fighter proposal. the combinations worked out great.

ZINO · Unread post by **ZINO** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:20 pm

very well done !!!

Arnie100 · Unread post by **Arnie100** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:10 pm

glitterboy2098 wrote:near final EBSIS Veritech design:

Su-57 (VF-3) Vampir
notations (uses a slightly older version of the image.. i had to tweak the tail a bit after making it)
comparison (again, slightly older image)

decided to try out the FSW approach, using Su-47derived planform, and folding wings based on a Sukhoi's forward swept wing naval fighter proposal. the combinations worked out great.

Will patiently wait for battloid mode!

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:38 pm

Chris0013 wrote:Have you considered a micronian battle pod???

Hmmm...wonder who in the post-Rain world WOULD undertake such an idea....Maybe one of the Chinese or other surviving Asian states?

Chris0013 · Unread post by **Chris0013** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:38 pm

glitterboy2098 wrote:near final EBSIS Veritech design:

Su-57 (VF-3) Vampir
notations (uses a slightly older version of the image.. i had to tweak the tail a bit after making it)
comparison (again, slightly older image)

decided to try out the FSW approach, using Su-47derived planform, and folding wings based on a Sukhoi's forward swept wing naval fighter proposal. the combinations worked out great.

That is what I was talking about for the forward swept wing.

glitterboy2098 · Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:51 pm

taalismn wrote:
Chris0013 wrote:Have you considered a micronian battle pod???

Hmmm...wonder who in the post-Rain world WOULD undertake such an idea....Maybe one of the Chinese or other surviving Asian states?

depends on how you define "micronian battlepod", i think. are we talking about a human built mecha, designed along battlepod lines? or a zentraedi battlepod heavily reworked to be used by human crews?

personally i like the ZBP-1 art from the old rpg.. but in the new RPG i'd rather see those relegated to a use more like you see in the nownon-canon sentinels movie. i mean, a pod for use by full size zentaedi. i'd imagine the UEDF and UEEF had a large amount of fullsized zents from breetai's forces (and perhaps large amounts from formerly dissident zent groups as well, with service in the UEEF as a sort of 'foreign legion' bit to give them something to do and a chance to erase any previous personal record)... and there is no way the UEEF would continue to use the deathtraps known as standard battlepods. a new design, with elements of the regular and officers pod combined to make a single unit earth could mass produce in the factory sat, with enough armor and firepower to fit into earth's military paradigm.

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:36 pm

Depends. Back in the day, I did for Rifts 'replipods' that were 4-6 ft tall scaledowns of the Regult and Glaug meant for use by small-statured beings like mutant squirrels and gmomes(or they could be straightout robot drones), and armed with the nearest equivalents in the way of machine guns, mini-missile launchers and energy rifles.
Now, an equivalent might be a scaled-down battlepod fit for a human, but sharing the same uncomfortable seating as in the Zentraedi machines. Substituting machine guns for autocannon, and short range or mini-missiles for their larger equivalents, and a modest amount of armor, and you could have the equivalent of a light, fast, recon or police power armor(albeit without arms and hands, and finding a suitable infantry-scale equivalent of the PBCs poses a problem until the ASC era).

Chris0013 · Unread post by **Chris0013** » Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:33 pm

glitterboy2098 wrote:
taalismn wrote:
Chris0013 wrote:Have you considered a micronian battle pod???

Hmmm...wonder who in the post-Rain world WOULD undertake such an idea....Maybe one of the Chinese or other surviving Asian states?

depends on how you define "micronian battlepod", i think. are we talking about a human built mecha, designed along battlepod lines? or a zentraedi battlepod heavily reworked to be used by human crews?

personally i like the ZBP-1 art from the old rpg.. but in the new RPG i'd rather see those relegated to a use more like you see in the nownon-canon sentinels movie. i mean, a pod for use by full size zentaedi. i'd imagine the UEDF and UEEF had a large amount of fullsized zents from breetai's forces (and perhaps large amounts from formerly dissident zent groups as well, with service in the UEEF as a sort of 'foreign legion' bit to give them something to do and a chance to erase any previous personal record)... and there is no way the UEEF would continue to use the deathtraps known as standard battlepods. a new design, with elements of the regular and officers pod combined to make a single unit earth could mass produce in the factory sat, with enough armor and firepower to fit into earth's military paradigm.

Earth designed...like the Sentinels 'Pods. I was thinking something like the primary defense drone from RoTM 2 ed. with a single particle beam like the OBP had on top instead of the 2 the drone had.

Colonel Wolfe · Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:06 pm

zentraedi battlepod heavily reworked to be used by human crews?

in the show, Minclone sized people can pilot battlepods... happends numerous times, heck Lisa Rick and Ben pilot one....

glitterboy2098 · Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:44 pm

Colonel Wolfe wrote:
zentraedi battlepod heavily reworked to be used by human crews?
in the show, Minclone sized people can pilot battlepods... happends numerous times, heck Lisa Rick and Ben pilot one....

in much the same way as BunBun and Kiki can drive a car in Sluggy freelance. certainly the method involved is not one you'd want to use on a regular basis.
what i mean is the old RPG's idea of the "MH" pod, where a zent pod has it's interior gutted and a destroid like cockpit fitted.

Chris0013 · Unread post by **Chris0013** » Sat Jul 14, 2012 7:19 pm

glitterboy2098 wrote:
Colonel Wolfe wrote:
zentraedi battlepod heavily reworked to be used by human crews?
in the show, Minclone sized people can pilot battlepods... happends numerous times, heck Lisa Rick and Ben pilot one....
in much the same way as BunBun and Kiki can drive a car in Sluggy freelance. certainly the method involved is not one you'd want to use on a regular basis.
what i mean is the old RPG's idea of the "MH" pod, where a zent pod has it's interior gutted and a destroid like cockpit fitted.

For a cheap fix that was good.....but that is all.....I never liked the way that in the old books the "opposition" was so technologically inferior to the RDF/UEDF forces.

All it would take is a decent payoff and dozens of beautiful women to get several UEDF mecha designers to defect....or just kidnap them and their families....to start up a mecha program.

Quite frankly do what was done to Zand in the novels. Find a guy who is overshadowed by Lang and give him the funding he wants.

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:21 pm

Chris0013 wrote:[Quite frankly do what was done to Zand in the novels. Find a guy who is overshadowed by Lang and give him the funding he wants.

Disgruntled Ex-R&D Guy: "HAHAHA!!! You called me mad and belittled me! But at last somebody recognizes my genuis!"
Lang: "We called you mad for a reason. Really, shunting the radioactive efflux from the reactor cooling system through the cockpit in favor of 'promoting superpowered mutations in the crew'?""

Chris0013 · Unread post by **Chris0013** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:37 pm

taalismn wrote:
Chris0013 wrote:[Quite frankly do what was done to Zand in the novels. Find a guy who is overshadowed by Lang and give him the funding he wants.

Disgruntled Ex-R&D Guy: "HAHAHA!!! You called me mad and belittled me! But at last somebody recognizes my genuis!"
Lang: "We called you mad for a reason. Really, shunting the radioactive efflux from the reactor cooling system through the cockpit in favor of 'promoting superpowered mutations in the crew'?""

but seriously....it would be easy to find someone who was trained engineer and give him a nice seaside villa with 20 or so pretty euro chicks to motivate him to produce.

Arnie100 · Unread post by **Arnie100** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:53 pm

taalismn wrote:
Chris0013 wrote:[Quite frankly do what was done to Zand in the novels. Find a guy who is overshadowed by Lang and give him the funding he wants.

Disgruntled Ex-R&D Guy: "HAHAHA!!! You called me mad and belittled me! But at last somebody recognizes my genuis!"
Lang: "We called you mad for a reason. Really, shunting the radioactive efflux from the reactor cooling system through the cockpit in favor of 'promoting superpowered mutations in the crew'?""

I can imagine this guy looking like Prof. Farnsworth, lol! Back at Giltterboy: have you thought of using canards for Vampir; as well?

glitterboy2098 · Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:12 pm

i run the Baltic States EBSIS more like a real world development environment than Lang's one man military show.. every corporation has it's own R&D programs, not to mention lots of corporate funding of colleges, institutes, and other such centers of learning and research, and thus your less reliant on small groups of super geniuses... as opposed to a number of development teams in each corporation, with good engineers piecing together the little bits of technology they can obtain via their r&D programs or by buying/renting the patents off other companies....

basically, the Robotech Research group of the UEDF was like burt rutan sitting in a building sketching out a jet fighter.... while in the EBSIS it's more the joints chiefs putting out a memo to Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, McDonnell Douglas, and Boeing to the jist of "we need a new jet fighter, get on it", then picking the best result.
aside from the Hussar, which was just the result of an internal development process (at the time there was no time to do a proper round of selection testing, and there was only one mecha manufacturer anyway), all the mecha, and to a degree the other units, are the result of competition between multiple companies, with the military deciding which product to buy. once the politics stabilized, pretty much every company, university, and dreamer with a workshop had a mecha program going. many never produced anything of interest, some got bought up or absorbed into existing corporations, but the EBSIS industrial machine thrives on competition.
the upside of this is that there were many "non-selected prototypes" that the military didn't want.. but might find a buyer elsewhere. giving GM's an opening to invent their own mecha. even the occasional 'failed prototype' for a big-bad to throw at the group.
if i can find or make some decent art, i may describe some of these 'failed efforts' eventually.

Arnie100 wrote:Back at Giltterboy: have you thought of using canards for Vampir; as well?

i'm considering it.. canards would work well with the Su-47 aesthetics. fitting them into the transformation sequence would be the though part. i'm also tempted to try and tweak the legs to be less VF-1 like.. that one might be beyond my artisitc abilities though..

Arnie100 · Unread post by **Arnie100** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:35 pm

glitterboy2098 wrote:
Arnie100 wrote:Back at Giltterboy: have you thought of using canards for Vampir; as well?

i'm considering it.. canards would work well with the Su-47 aesthetics. fitting them into the transformation sequence would be the though part. i'm also tempted to try and tweak the legs to be less VF-1 like.. that one might be beyond my artisitc abilities though..

What about VF-19 or VF-11 style canards?

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:46 pm

glitterboy2098 wrote:ithe upside of this is that there were many "non-selected prototypes" that the military didn't want.. but might find a buyer elsewhere. giving GM's an opening to invent their own mecha. even the occasional 'failed prototype' for a big-bad to throw at the group.
if i can find or make some decent art, i may describe some of these 'failed efforts' eventually.

..

Or those prototypes show up in wretched movies as props. Burt Rutan couldn't interest the military in his ARES COIN aircraft, and it showed up as a 'missing Nazi secret prototype' in the utterly despicable and unredeemable Iron Eagle 2 movie.
That might be one interesting place for PCs to stumble across interesting old military hardware....movie studio warehouses out in the middle of nowhere, production sets that were away from civilization for movies that were never completed because of the Rain of Death. Of course, the PCs might have to find actual weapons and live ammo for their finds, because at best, all they're likely to find on-site is stunt pyrotechnics.

Jefffar · Unread post by **Jefffar** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:51 pm

Actually it was in Iron Eagle 3

Iron Eagle 2 was the one where the Russians and the Americans teamed up against a nuclear armed Islamic republic.

glitterboy2098 · Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:36 pm

there are plenty of examples where a rejected prototype has been marketed to other places.. sadly i can't think of any where the reject got picked over the other though in real life. the F-20 got murdered by the F-16C/D in the foriegn sales market after the airforce went with the F-16C/D, for example. well, i take that back, the YF-17 lost the Light Weight Fighter Competition to the F-16, but the Navy didn't like the navalized F-16 designs being drawn up, and withdrew from the LWF program and picked the YF-17 to develop concurrently as the F-18... frankly i'm not sure i's count that one though.
oh wait, there are the Mig-29K's the Indian Navy is buying for their aircraft carrier.. the MiG-29K lost out to the Su-33 when the russians deployed a full sized carrier, but the indian navy decided to go with the MiG's, last i heard.

still, it's a popular trope in the movie, TVshow, comic, and Videogame business, so no reason not to embrace the options when they arise in the setting info..

and to be honest my reference to Rutan was mostly because he's the closest thing i've seen in real life to the kind of expert in everything that Lang is in robotech.

glitterboy2098 · Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:59 pm

had a brainstorm regarding the African Campaign, and a way to ressurect elements from the 1st ed sourcebook 7..

research into real world 1990's conditions commencing.. really kicking myself for not saving copies of the powerpoint notes from a 700 level history class i took last summer, would have really sped things up.

please note... there will be no landship-aircraft carriers in this timeline... hard for african militias to build something that complex. i'm having to resort to some handwaves just to get them "Zarafah" IMU's..

also note, there will be zentraedi involvement in the Congo side of the African campaigns..

Colonel Wolfe · Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:09 pm

glitterboy2098 wrote:please note... there will be no landship-aircraft carriers in this timeline....

this was one of the worse items in the old RPG... not the worst.... but it was terrible, glad to see its resurrection avoided...

glitterboy2098 · Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:21 pm

Colonel Wolfe wrote:
glitterboy2098 wrote:please note... there will be no landship-aircraft carriers in this timeline....
this was one of the worse items in the old RPG... not the worst.... but it was terrible, glad to see its resurrection avoided...

the basic idea, taken on it's own, is cool enough. it's just not robotech... it might fit into rifts with some stats changes though.

frankly, like i've been doing with the EBSIS... i'm largely just taking names and some of the general themes and spinning them off into new ideas that fit into the new more canonical RPG.. often by combining one or more stripped down ideas from the old RPG to create the core of a new hybrid concept, which can then be extrapolated into something truly unique.

for example, the Ashanti and the Last.. which combine so well with the real world local groups of the 1990's..

Colonel Wolfe · Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:32 pm

glitterboy2098 wrote:
the basic idea, taken on it's own, is cool enough. it's just not robotech... it might fit into rifts with some stats changes though.

it was a better fit for rifts for sure... a interesting idea, but yes not a Robtech one.

frankly, like i've been doing with the EBSIS... i'm largely just taking names and some of the general themes and spinning them off into new ideas that fit into the new more canonical RPG..

Ebsis easily fits into "canon". Robotech covers less than 5 years of a 34 year storyarc...

glitterboy2098 · Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:34 pm

old EBSIS didn't because it required setting elements (like a weak UEG and ASC) that the show and new RPG can't support.

plus the whole Neo-soviet thing just doesn't fly well in modern times. not only does the show indicate that the UEG was hardly a capitalist democratic entity, but the fact that soviet union collapsed in the real world well before the global war in robotech had to have started up makes it hard to justify going back to the days of commisars and the hammer and sickle..

Colonel Wolfe · Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:38 pm

glitterboy2098 wrote:old EBSIS didn't because it required setting elements (like a weak UEG and ASC) that the show and new RPG wouldn't allow.

well, I hate the Old Ebsis, its trapped behind the Berlin wall for one thing... and yes, it required the ASC to be too weak to protect its self. its part of why the RPg heavily implied the Masters had a single mother-ship... I remember being baffled the first time I saw the middle chapter.. it was "wrong" it wasn't anything like the RPG.
when and fi i complete my robotech project, my Ebsis will look alot like this one early on, and evolve into something different later on.
Much how the Western hemisphere was spared total destruction during the ROD, the eastern hemisphere was spared by the masters and invid... giving the Ebsis the foundation post 2030's and after reflex point to be THE world power.

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:45 pm

glitterboy2098 wrote:old EBSIS didn't because it required setting elements (like a weak UEG and ASC) that the show and new RPG can't support.

plus the whole Neo-soviet thing just doesn't fly well in modern times. not only does the show indicate that the UEG was hardly a capitalist democratic entity, but the fact that soviet union collapsed in the real world well before the global war in robotech had to have started up makes it hard to justify going back to the days of commisars and the hammer and sickle..

These days it's just oligarchs and ex-military career politicians in charge.

Colonel Wolfe · Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:49 pm

glitterboy2098 wrote:plus the whole Neo-soviet thing just doesn't fly well in modern times. not only does the show indicate that the UEG was hardly a capitalist democratic entity, but the fact that soviet union collapsed in the real world well before the global war in robotech had to have started up makes it hard to justify going back to the days of commisars and the hammer and sickle..

the hard split from our timeline is in 1983.. so the Soviet union may not have fallen in Robotech. but its surviving the GW, and the formation of the UEG is iffy.

glitterboy2098 · Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:09 pm

before this gets into a 1st ed RPG bashing fest, i'll point out again that my EBSIS is completely different, aside from using the same initials. the differences will become more obvious as i advance the history of it into the southern cross and new gen period. of course, the new gen period can be be defined as "they got hammered, like everyone else"... but the details are everything.

and i've got some more EBSIS mecha and other units in the works.. just need to get the descriptions finalized..

Jefffar · Unread post by **Jefffar** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:21 pm

I thought my expanded EBSIS material did a relatively good job at explaining how the 1st ed RPG version of the EBSIS could indeed exist, be at odds with the UEG in the post Rain of Death World and why the UEG wouldn't have ultimately bombed it off the map sometime in the 2020s.

I also don't think the current RPG really excludes it so much either. Yeah the communist as bad guy thing is kind of out of fashion now, but I never really played up that aspect of the EBSIS.

Colonel Wolfe · Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:08 pm

Jefffar wrote:I also don't think the current RPG really excludes it so much either.

neither the show nor the RPG excludes the idea of other nations existing... the "US ARMY" Destroid. makes me think member nations of the UEG get access to tech independent of what is used by the RDF/UEDF/UEEF.
nations besides the United States could and should exist.

glitterboy2098 · Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:28 pm

my point was more that:
a) the fall of the soviet philosophy can be traced to inherent flaws in how their societies functioned. for russia, the fall of the soviet union can be traced back to pre-existing contidions and events as far back as the 1950's. the fact it didn't collapse before the late 1980's seems somewhat miraculous in retrospect. this makes the neo-soviet angle hard to justify today.

b) the new RPG allows post- rain of death non-UEG nations to exist, in fact it pretty much requires them to make the whole 'feudal society' bit mentioned in the show work out, but none of those non-UEG powers can claim to be able to fight the ASC on anything resembling even terms. the southern cross segement of the show, with its hundreds of starships, thousands of mecha, etc.. just doesn't have room for a true super power to oppose the UEG. you can justify 'big UEG vs. regional power" easily enough, but the show just doesn't have room for another super power.

Jefffar · Unread post by **Jefffar** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:41 pm

I never really considered the original EBSIS to be a super power or a fully fledged rival to the UEG. Instead I considered them to be big enough to not be worth the investment in materiel and lives to take down in conventional war and that the UEG didn't have the guts to order weapons of mass destruction/orbital bombardment to be used to lay them low.

The biggest thing was the EBSIS were a distraction and a complication that amplified the problems facing the UEG in the post Rain of Death era. They may have caused a lot of trouble, but ultimately there were always more important things to deal with and the reward of taking them down wasn't worth the cost.

glitterboy2098 · Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:56 pm

working on a list of infantry gear for the baltic EBSIS...

having looked over the realworld weapons used by the various nations, i've decided the following..

clones of the G36 assualt rifle (of which that region's militaries had many examples) make up their standard assualt rifle, carbine, and light MG/SAW slots.
a 125mm SRM launcher (visually based on the MILAN,which is a nice 'stereotypical' ATGM launcher visually) for anti-tank duties.
a 73mm guided minimissile manpad anti-aircraft weapon is planned, i'm just not sure what weapon to use as a visual.

any other suggestions?

Colonel Wolfe · Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:43 pm

http://www.redicecreations.com/specialr ... lstorm.jpg

glitterboy2098 · Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:59 pm

Colonel Wolfe wrote:http://www.redicecreations.com/specialreports/2006/01jan/metalstorm.jpg

Metal Storm Limited didn't figure out how to solve the problems with superposed loads in our timeline until 2001, after the global war was over in robotech and alien tech was getting all the funding... plus the company is Austrilian. be hard to justify any examples of their tech making it into the baltic states to be reverse engineered. you might be able to justify the UEG using that though. (maybe a way to explain why the 1st ed's GU-12 just has a big ass barrel, and no room to store ammo?)

pity, i rather like the Ringo Solution to low flying zentraedi warships...

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:00 pm

Colonel Wolfe wrote:http://www.redicecreations.com/specialreports/2006/01jan/metalstorm.jpg

Are those 40mm grenade launchers on that thing?
Because if so, I am SO going to have to steal that as a squirrel tank.

glitterboy2098 · Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:02 pm

taalismn wrote:
Colonel Wolfe wrote:http://www.redicecreations.com/specialreports/2006/01jan/metalstorm.jpg

Are those 40mm grenade launchers on that thing?
Because if so, I am SO going to have to steal that as a squirrel tank.

five shot 12 guage shot gun tubes based on the MAUL system.. i think. there are 40mm versions in the works,