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say652 wrote:I personally like Ar. Adding a natural/Robotic ar to your games would imho show the durabilities of power armors, giant robots and supernatural creatures better that the thousands of mdc that is currently used. But hey thatd just my opinion man.

Slight001 wrote:There is no example of a "Natural A.R." that effects Mega-Damage weaponry.

Giant2005 wrote:

Slight001 wrote:There is no example of a "Natural A.R." that effects Mega-Damage weaponry.

That isn't entirely true. The Phase Demon in Dimensional Outbreak has a Natural A.R. that effects M.D. weaponry, although it only does so through a loop-hole in your wording. However if you had said "There is no example of a "Natural A.R." on a Mega-Damage creature", it would have been true.

It does make me wonder about those magic rings in Palladium Fantasy's Western Empire that grant a Natural A.R. though... How exactly do they convert to Rifts? Could a M.D. being gain a natural A.R. through magic?

Rappanui wrote:Just to nitpick:
Creature of the Waves
Range: Self.
Duration: One melee (I 5 seconds) per level of experience.
Saving Throw: None.
P.P.E.: Seventy
The Warlock is temporarily transformed into a Water Elemental-like being composed of water vapor. The appearance is a shiny, silver colored, semi-opaque featureless figure in a humanoid form. In this
form the Warlock can swim at a speed of 120 mph ( 192 krn) or 2 miles
per minute (3.2 km), tum completely invisible in water, is an M.D.C.
being with 200 M.D.C., impervious to lasers, Mega-Damage attacks inflict half damage (fire does double damage), can squeeze through keyholes and cracks in one melee action, and is +2 on initiative, +I to
strike and parry and +2 to dodge, but cannot inflict Mega-Damage, just
normal S.D.C. damage. Although he can pick up and carry up to 500
lbs (225 kg), the Warlock is -2 to strike using weapons of any kind. ... now this is a spell that turns a creature into water...
see the note about impervious to lasers...now if you wanna troll, you can say " but that's that spell!'.... it's also among the natural abilities of water elementals, and among the abiltieis of Mercurials from Dimensional Outbreak....

Nightmask wrote:

Rappanui wrote:Just to nitpick:
Creature of the Waves
Range: Self.
Duration: One melee (I 5 seconds) per level of experience.
Saving Throw: None.
P.P.E.: Seventy
The Warlock is temporarily transformed into a Water Elemental-like being composed of water vapor. The appearance is a shiny, silver colored, semi-opaque featureless figure in a humanoid form. In this
form the Warlock can swim at a speed of 120 mph ( 192 krn) or 2 miles
per minute (3.2 km), tum completely invisible in water, is an M.D.C.
being with 200 M.D.C., impervious to lasers, Mega-Damage attacks inflict half damage (fire does double damage), can squeeze through keyholes and cracks in one melee action, and is +2 on initiative, +I to
strike and parry and +2 to dodge, but cannot inflict Mega-Damage, just
normal S.D.C. damage. Although he can pick up and carry up to 500
lbs (225 kg), the Warlock is -2 to strike using weapons of any kind. ... now this is a spell that turns a creature into water...
see the note about impervious to lasers...now if you wanna troll, you can say " but that's that spell!'.... it's also among the natural abilities of water elementals, and among the abiltieis of Mercurials from Dimensional Outbreak....

Wow, so hundreds if not thousands of gallons of water can travel through a keyhole in a mere 15 seconds?

Nightmask wrote:Wow, so hundreds if not thousands of gallons of water can travel through a keyhole in a mere 15 seconds?

Mack wrote:

Nightmask wrote:Wow, so hundreds if not thousands of gallons of water can travel through a keyhole in a mere 15 seconds?

Two things:
- The character is composed water vapor, not water.
- The character's size doesn't change. So it would be roughly 20 gallons of vapor, not hundreds or thousands.

Nightmask wrote:

Mack wrote:

Nightmask wrote:Wow, so hundreds if not thousands of gallons of water can travel through a keyhole in a mere 15 seconds?

Two things:
- The character is composed water vapor, not water.
- The character's size doesn't change. So it would be roughly 20 gallons of vapor, not hundreds or thousands.

Which is still a lot of water to push through a keyhole, being water vapor doesn't make it easier in fact it requires the vapor to go through even faster since some of the space is occupied by air

Giant2005 wrote:

Slight001 wrote:There is no example of a "Natural A.R." that effects Mega-Damage weaponry.

That isn't entirely true. The Phase Demon in Dimensional Outbreak has a Natural A.R. that effects M.D. weaponry, although it only does so through a loop-hole in your wording. However if you had said "There is no example of a "Natural A.R." on a Mega-Damage creature", it would have been true.

It does make me wonder about those magic rings in Palladium Fantasy's Western Empire that grant a Natural A.R. though... How exactly do they convert to Rifts? Could a M.D. being gain a natural A.R. through magic?

Rappanui wrote:it's not imprevious to lasers, just that "hurting" him with the laser will still require an AR" To represent the shifting viscouity to hurt it.. Also, the NPC in question also has LIQUIFY and Spiral...

Rappanui wrote:except that you are not paying attention to what the power does. How does = target moved out of the way = Automatically hit because it's a Mega damage Weapon ? by your logic, everytime he's hit by a MD weapon, he is scattered for d6 Melees since it's more then 50 SDC. You are being too literal. Where is your common sense?

Rappanui wrote:except that you are not paying attention to what the power does. How does = target moved out of the way = Automatically hit because it's a Mega damage Weapon ? by your logic, everytime he's hit by a MD weapon, he is scattered for d6 Melees since it's more then 50 SDC. You are being too literal. Where is your common sense?

say652 wrote:Tomato went through the port. And if you've ever woeked around teack machines. I swear look at them cross eyed and the track falls off. Sneeze and you threw a track. Lol.

Bobcat got taken out by crab apples. They got wedged up in the guide wheel located in the nose of the track and blammo. Four hours and a trip to Bobcat later. Lil muncher was back on line. That was last Wednesday.

say652 wrote:I think mdc is a horrible mechanic.

say652 wrote:Ar imo is a great mechanic. Makes sniping possible.

Rappanui wrote:except that you are not paying attention to what the power does. How does = target moved out of the way = Automatically hit because it's a Mega damage Weapon ? by your logic, everytime he's hit by a MD weapon, he is scattered for d6 Melees since it's more then 50 SDC. You are being too literal. Where is your common sense?

Rappanui wrote:wrong, the AR in APS liquid and Mercury powers is not bouncing off but the fact that the character didn't hit anything vital, after all, it's A LIQUID.

eliakon wrote:

Rappanui wrote:wrong, the AR in APS liquid and Mercury powers is not bouncing off but the fact that the character didn't hit anything vital, after all, it's A LIQUID.

-APS Liquid doesn't have an AR. It does provide "Limited Invulnerability" which is then explained in detail. Including the fact that they are explicitly vulnerable to fire, heat, lasers, magic, psi....
-APS Mercury has AR 15 (which doesn't apply in rifts)...and again specifically says that they are vulnerable to fire, heat, lasers, magic psi...

So...yes a laser will hurt you. And since only EXPLOSIONS splatter you it doesn't matter if that laser does 2 points or 200 points, your still not going to splatter.

Rappanui wrote:You have become fixated on APS mercury and not the fact that he has multiple abilities that change his state.

Rappanui wrote:This is the list of immunites for Mercurials:

Impervious to Gases and Toxins: Mercurials do not
breathe.
Impervious to Vacuum and Resistant to Cold: Cold has no
effect unless it is colder than -200 degrees Fahrenheit (-128.8
C), at which point Speed and P.P. attributes, attacks per melee and combat bonuses are reduced by half until wanner
conditions prevail.
Impervious to Diseases: Metallic beings, they are not
hanned by diseases that affect flesh and blood organisms.
Impervious to Horror Factor: They see everything as a
new experience and they are often too naIve to realize what
kind of danger they are in. Death is a foreign concept to
them, and they also have pseudo-immortality.
Resistant to Lasers: Their glistening metallic bodies reflect most light based weapons such as lasers, and they take
half damage from laser attacks.
Resistant to Fire and Heat: At temperatures higher than
900 degrees Fahrenheit (482 C), Mercurials begin to feel
lightheaded, bonuses and skill performance are reduced by
half, and the beings suffer damage at a rate of 2D6 M.D. per
melee round. Note: Magic fire does full damage.
Resistant to Explosions: All explosions, impacts from falls
from a great height and high speed impacts from a vehicle do
only 10% damage to the Mercurial, however, if the original
damage was greater than 80 M.D. points, the Mercurial is blown (or knocked) into 2D6xlO pieces! The strange being
can reform its body (see Shape-Changing above), but it takes
at least a few melee rounds. Less damaging explosions just
inflict damage.
Resistant to Low-Speed Kinetic Attacks: Punches, kicks,
blunt weapon attacks, blades, arrows, and bullets do half
damage. High speed kinetic attacks such as rounds from a
machine-gun, rail gun, auto-cannon and similar weapons do
full damage.
Note: Energy weapons do full damage, as do most forms
of magic and magic weapons. Mercurials have no special defenses against psionic attacks.

Thinyser wrote:So I had a eugenic character named Eugene (lame I know) made up but I cannot find him now. I dont think I ever digitized him and my old paper char sheets are tucked away in my basement. But I remember he had spent most of his budget on a bunch of short range mini-harpoons that each did 1d4 but only had like a 20 foot range. He had tons of these like 40 or 50 and they could be launched out all as a single volley so on one attack he could do like 1d4x40 (or x50 I cannot remember how many he had but it was lots). They were awesome because they stayed attached with their little harpoon cord and I could real them back in closing the gap to my opponent while getting them ready for another deployment. Now looking through PU2 and Mutant underground I cannot find these short range harpoon things and I know I didnt make them up myself. Oh well cant find the character anyway so it doesn't matter... still bugs me though that I cant find the harpoon things

Ninjabunny wrote:Lol sir the story about getting to this made me laugh, mostly because I have a sprained wrist right now. ( let the dirty jokes fly!)

Ninjabunny wrote:I would say so.
I also didn't mean anything with what I said the laughing was how dedicated you were to finding a character that you crawled down stairs to post it.

say652 wrote:No seriously, why is the dimensional crossroads so dead set against super powers? ?

And races and power categories designed to bounce seamlessly between mdc and sdc worlds??

Demigods, godlings, mega heroes, immortals. I see lots of fan made stuff in games on rifts but posting about them on the forums, specifically this forum always degrade into a flaming/trolling mod tattleling fluckshow??

say652 wrote: Yet the same people that are rude and say mean things on posts here are quite friendly and polite on other forums.

Please explain the one sidedeness going on here.

say652 wrote:No seriously, why is the dimensional crossroads so dead set against super powers? ?

And races and power categories designed to bounce seamlessly between mdc and sdc worlds??

Demigods, godlings, mega heroes, immortals. I see lots of fan made stuff in games on rifts but posting about them on the forums, specifically this forum always degrade into a flaming/trolling mod tattleling fluckshow??

Yet the same people that are rude and say mean things on posts here are quite friendly and polite on other forums.

Please explain the one sidedeness going on here.

A fan of post apocalyptic settings and super heroes.

say652 wrote:No seriously, why is the dimensional crossroads so dead set against super powers? ?

And races and power categories designed to bounce seamlessly between mdc and sdc worlds??

Demigods, godlings, mega heroes, immortals. I see lots of fan made stuff in games on rifts but posting about them on the forums, specifically this forum always degrade into a flaming/trolling mod tattleling fluckshow??

Yet the same people that are rude and say mean things on posts here are quite friendly and polite on other forums.

Please explain the one sidedeness going on here.

A fan of post apocalyptic settings and super heroes.

It was in rifts but there was a woman with magnetism and glow bug powers who was a thief occ, a spy occ with blur, supervision thermal, and criminal intuition, a vagabond with sonic flight, supernatural strength, and afs plant (his character also had the insanity of power by association magical object and believed his powers came from a worn formerly deep purple fedora he owned), a female pre rifts history teacher with time travel powers (the gm and her sat down and modified time magic into a power for her) and a rogue scientist with giant and immovability.


Anyway it was great, the spy started out a separate, villain, selling secrets to the highest bidder. The magnetism thief was working for/with the spy in the beginning to find the scientist and steal his notes (he turned himself into a giant through experimentation), the vagabond was in prison for walking off with a towns sheriffs vehicle, and the giant rogue scientist was nursing the time traveler back to health after she suddenly appeared 15 feet above the ground and fell.

At the end we saved the recently time warped town of st. francisville, la from the invading horde. At the insistance of the time traveler we named ourselves the st. francisville sentinels (like the football team from the replacements...)

flatline wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:Do I really need to roll up a Super character to demonstrate how powerful they can get?

No. An example of the worst case will not help settle the issue.

I think that everyone is aware that the power level of super powered characters varies wildly depending on the powers chosen and the house rules in play.

--flatline

Nox Equites wrote:Some people seem to miss the fact that characters with super abilities are pretty much the definition of supernatural beings so Psi-stalkers can track them. Some GMs don't like the fact you can create a Super who can slaughter Juicers in melee and has no countervailing weakness. The munchkin with extraordinary speed, a minor ability, has freaking auto dodge at least one extra attack, and the crazy goes on from there. Do they have supernatural strength and or endurance so they don't need armor/can shred infantry with their bare hands? Sure you can give them some "you're freaky and stand out" traits but the powergamer isn't interested in social interaction anyway. A Juicer needs to be concerned about last call and has to visit civilization to top off his drug reservoir every few months so he/she can't just wander the wastes forever. The best way, as other have suggested, is to use the random charts and veto any absurd combinations. But many GMs are not interested in adding that extra complexity to their duties. Personally I roll up a super the way I roll up a Nightbane, letting the chaos of the dice give me something. It may not be what I expected, but that makes things fun.

Incriptus wrote:The Conversation usually goes like this

I have 100 rifts books, with over 1000 rifts classes and you* (Impersonal You, ie what ever player i'm talking to at the moment) can't find one you want to play?
Why do you suppose that is?
Ok you don't want to have to rely on equipment, ok I have dozens of humans with magic psionics or special abilities why none of them?
Oh you don't want to rely on PPE or ISP, ok how about ...?
Oh you don't want to have a all the disadvantages that come with that class.
So essentially you want to be a Human with special abilities that are available to you at all time with no cost either mechanically or storyline based?
That is not what (my) Rifts is about.

Nightmask wrote:

Nox Equites wrote:Some people seem to miss the fact that characters with super abilities are pretty much the definition of supernatural beings so Psi-stalkers can track them. Some GMs don't like the fact you can create a Super who can slaughter Juicers in melee and has no countervailing weakness. The munchkin with extraordinary speed, a minor ability, has freaking auto dodge at least one extra attack, and the crazy goes on from there. Do they have supernatural strength and or endurance so they don't need armor/can shred infantry with their bare hands? Sure you can give them some "you're freaky and stand out" traits but the powergamer isn't interested in social interaction anyway. A Juicer needs to be concerned about last call and has to visit civilization to top off his drug reservoir every few months so he/she can't just wander the wastes forever. The best way, as other have suggested, is to use the random charts and veto any absurd combinations. But many GMs are not interested in adding that extra complexity to their duties. Personally I roll up a super the way I roll up a Nightbane, letting the chaos of the dice give me something. It may not be what I expected, but that makes things fun.

Uh no, characters with super-abilities aren't the definition of supernatural beings and nothing about them would mean that they're trackable by psi-stalkers. Only the Mega-hero is stated to be effectively a supernatural being in Rifts which would mean other supers like Mutants and Super-Soldiers are not.

Nox Equites wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

Nox Equites wrote:Some people seem to miss the fact that characters with super abilities are pretty much the definition of supernatural beings so Psi-stalkers can track them. Some GMs don't like the fact you can create a Super who can slaughter Juicers in melee and has no countervailing weakness. The munchkin with extraordinary speed, a minor ability, has freaking auto dodge at least one extra attack, and the crazy goes on from there. Do they have supernatural strength and or endurance so they don't need armor/can shred infantry with their bare hands? Sure you can give them some "you're freaky and stand out" traits but the powergamer isn't interested in social interaction anyway. A Juicer needs to be concerned about last call and has to visit civilization to top off his drug reservoir every few months so he/she can't just wander the wastes forever. The best way, as other have suggested, is to use the random charts and veto any absurd combinations. But many GMs are not interested in adding that extra complexity to their duties. Personally I roll up a super the way I roll up a Nightbane, letting the chaos of the dice give me something. It may not be what I expected, but that makes things fun.

Uh no, characters with super-abilities aren't the definition of supernatural beings and nothing about them would mean that they're trackable by psi-stalkers. Only the Mega-hero is stated to be effectively a supernatural being in Rifts which would mean other supers like Mutants and Super-Soldiers are not.

Why not? The Fire breathing, shape shifting, flying, dragon counts as supernatural (or creature of magic depending on source). The Human with the same abilities isn't? Is supernatural intrinsic to only beings from particular dimensions? Or is it only a quality of certain beings with certain powers? Is a priest really a man of magic? The source of their powers is some divinity and not necessarily magic, as the LLWs spells are. Are they trackable by Psi-hounds? This pretty much has to be house ruled as canon doesn't agree.

You can always fiat that any character with super abilities has them granted by the ambient magic of the setting as the excuse why they can be tracked by the Psi sniffer types. This even gives mages with anti-magic spells a fighting chance. Or have specific anti-super techniques get developed in response to excessive characters. Even having a Psi-slayer hunt down that juicy PPE rich super snack works wonders.

Still you have the potential to have a character who can fly coast to coast at speeds most vehicles in the setting can't match, and be invisible to sensors, if you aren't careful as a GM.

Nightmask wrote:

Nox Equites wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

Nox Equites wrote:Some people seem to miss the fact that characters with super abilities are pretty much the definition of supernatural beings so Psi-stalkers can track them. Some GMs don't like the fact you can create a Super who can slaughter Juicers in melee and has no countervailing weakness. The munchkin with extraordinary speed, a minor ability, has freaking auto dodge at least one extra attack, and the crazy goes on from there. Do they have supernatural strength and or endurance so they don't need armor/can shred infantry with their bare hands? Sure you can give them some "you're freaky and stand out" traits but the powergamer isn't interested in social interaction anyway. A Juicer needs to be concerned about last call and has to visit civilization to top off his drug reservoir every few months so he/she can't just wander the wastes forever. The best way, as other have suggested, is to use the random charts and veto any absurd combinations. But many GMs are not interested in adding that extra complexity to their duties. Personally I roll up a super the way I roll up a Nightbane, letting the chaos of the dice give me something. It may not be what I expected, but that makes things fun.

Uh no, characters with super-abilities aren't the definition of supernatural beings and nothing about them would mean that they're trackable by psi-stalkers. Only the Mega-hero is stated to be effectively a supernatural being in Rifts which would mean other supers like Mutants and Super-Soldiers are not.

Why not? The Fire breathing, shape shifting, flying, dragon counts as supernatural (or creature of magic depending on source). The Human with the same abilities isn't? Is supernatural intrinsic to only beings from particular dimensions? Or is it only a quality of certain beings with certain powers? Is a priest really a man of magic? The source of their powers is some divinity and not necessarily magic, as the LLWs spells are. Are they trackable by Psi-hounds? This pretty much has to be house ruled as canon doesn't agree.

You can always fiat that any character with super abilities has them granted by the ambient magic of the setting as the excuse why they can be tracked by the Psi sniffer types. This even gives mages with anti-magic spells a fighting chance. Or have specific anti-super techniques get developed in response to excessive characters. Even having a Psi-slayer hunt down that juicy PPE rich super snack works wonders.

Still you have the potential to have a character who can fly coast to coast at speeds most vehicles in the setting can't match, and be invisible to sensors, if you aren't careful as a GM.

They aren't because they aren't, anymore than you can go 'well humans breathe, so do dogs, so humans and dogs are the same'. It's a false equivalency fallacy. A human that could do all that isn't a supernatural being just because some supernatural beings can do it too, since human being aren't normally supernatural one requires something that definitely says that they're no longer actually human and super-natural instead and having super-powers alone doesn't qualify. As already noted Mega-Heroes are explicitly noted as to qualify as supernatural beings, no other super is defined as such including those that have super-powers, which means super-powers in and of themselves don't qualify you as a supernatural being it requires more like the inexplicable qualities of the Mega-hero that pushes them beyond a normal super into the range of a supernatural being.