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Killer Cyborg wrote:

Mack wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:Once you include grenades, I no longer consider it to be a fist fight.

Well is it a handgrenade...

Ah, but not a fist grenade.

Unless it's a cyborg. Then it is fully possible to have a fist grenade and therefore a fist fight! Although one might prefer a rocket launching mechanism.

Colt47 wrote:Unless it's a cyborg. Then it is fully possible to have a fist grenade and therefore a fist fight! Although one might prefer a rocket launching mechanism.

I must now make a character or NPC with a Rocket-Propelled Fist-Grenade.

RPFG - "When you hate a guy so much you want to punch him in the face while you blow it off."™

Killer Cyborg wrote:Once you include grenades, I no longer consider it to be a fist fight.

Ah! A purist!



--flatline

Going to go a little counter-topic, but I just thought I'd make a quick comment on some of the things that I've liked so far in RUE.

Headhunter OCC: Definitely better write-up than RMB. I'm still not interested in playing one, but they seem more real now.

Merc Soldier OCC: Manages to cover lots of the gaps that existed in RMB using a single OCC that a simple MOS choice. Nicely done.

Elemental Fusionist: Okay, this OCC is lame. It doesn't feel like Rifts at all. It feels like it was yanked out of some video game (oh wait, it was...). Potent once you get a couple of levels under your belt, but still lame.

Ley Line Walker and Shifter: Excellent rewrites. I don't know that I like all the changes, but now you have real reasons for choosing one over the other. There's a bunch of power creep which I'm not a fan of, but at least now OCC mechanics capture the flavor of the OCC descriptions. That was missing in RMB.

Makes me wonder what a "modern" update of the Temporal Wizard and Temporal Warrior would look like.

Oh, and I was kind of surprised to see that Body Fixer and Cyber-Doc were still included. I half expected those OCCs to disappear or become NPC OCCs like the Alchemist is in Fantasy.

--flatline

Someone had challenged me to play a mage in this thread. I accepted the challenge and am rolling one up for an RPG Session for well 'Today' Sunday.

I've not played a mage in some time. Question: Which one is the most current/used. RUE or BoM when it comes to rules and what not? I'm 99% sure BoM was published after RuE so it's the more current, but figured I'd ask those that would know for sure.

Pepsi Jedi wrote:Someone had challenged me to play a mage in this thread. I accepted the challenge and am rolling one up for an RPG Session for well 'Today' Sunday.

I've not played a mage in some time. Question: Which one is the most current/used. RUE or BoM when it comes to rules and what not? I'm 99% sure BoM was published after RuE so it's the more current, but figured I'd ask those that would know for sure.

RUE was first published in 05 and the BoM in 01 so RUE has the rules you want to follow.

I have the fifth printing of the BoM that actually cites RuE so I guess my BoM is newer.

Pepsi Jedi wrote:I have the fifth printing of the BoM that actually cites RuE so I guess my BoM is newer.

That depends on which edition of RUE is being cited.

The 1st printing of RBoM was Pre RUE.

Just found new ridiculousness:

WP Handgun gives better strike bonus that WP Shotgun.

Nonsense.

--flatline

flatline wrote:Just found new ridiculousness:

WP Handgun gives better strike bonus that WP Shotgun.

Nonsense.

--flatline

Howso?

flatline wrote:Just found new ridiculousness:

WP Handgun gives better strike bonus that WP Shotgun.

Nonsense.

--flatline

WP skills aren't about the accuracy of weapons, they are about how much you can improve the accuracy of weapons with skill.
A Handgun has much more room for skill to play a larger role than a Shotgun.

Shotguns should be naturally more accurate though, I don't know if their mechanics portray that or not.

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Mack wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:Once you include grenades, I no longer consider it to be a fist fight.

Well is it a handgrenade...

Ah, but not a fist grenade.

If your a martial artist can you also use foot grenades?

Zer0 Kay wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Mack wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:Once you include grenades, I no longer consider it to be a fist fight.

Well is it a handgrenade...

Ah, but not a fist grenade.

If your a martial artist can you also use foot grenades?

Chuck Norris can.

This one isn't so much ridiculous as simply out of date:

The top tier of Monster Tattoos. It cost the same PPE for a 151 MDC monster as that of a 1,000 MDC monster. Clearly there needs to be a few more tiers added to p90 of Atlantis. The tattoo is intended to aid the user in combat, not be a "I win" button.

However, the reason I call this out of date is that Atlantis was written in 1992 when there weren't any 1,000 MDC monsters in Rifts.

I'll have to check again tonight to quote more exact but I was flipping through Coalition War Campaign last night and one of the write ups (from one of the Dbees in the back) made me think of this thread. The text stated that they don't get bionic reconstruction and juicer conversion isn't compatible, but after the skill section down with standard equipment and stuff, under bionics it says they occasionally undergo Juicer conversion.

Razzinold wrote:I'll have to check again tonight to quote more exact but I was flipping through Coalition War Campaign last night and one of the write ups (from one of the Dbees in the back) made me think of this thread. The text stated that they don't get bionic reconstruction and juicer conversion isn't compatible, but after the skill section down with standard equipment and stuff, under bionics it says they occasionally undergo Juicer conversion.

That sounds like a copy/paste error.

--flatline

flatline wrote:

Razzinold wrote:I'll have to check again tonight to quote more exact but I was flipping through Coalition War Campaign last night and one of the write ups (from one of the Dbees in the back) made me think of this thread. The text stated that they don't get bionic reconstruction and juicer conversion isn't compatible, but after the skill section down with standard equipment and stuff, under bionics it says they occasionally undergo Juicer conversion.

That sounds like a copy/paste error.

--flatline

Razzinold is right. It's the N'mbyr Gorilla Man. It's a clear contradiction, and doesn't appear to be copied from somewhere else.

Mack wrote:

flatline wrote:

Razzinold wrote:I'll have to check again tonight to quote more exact but I was flipping through Coalition War Campaign last night and one of the write ups (from one of the Dbees in the back) made me think of this thread. The text stated that they don't get bionic reconstruction and juicer conversion isn't compatible, but after the skill section down with standard equipment and stuff, under bionics it says they occasionally undergo Juicer conversion.

That sounds like a copy/paste error.

--flatline

Razzinold is right. It's the N'mbyr Gorilla Man. It's a clear contradiction, and doesn't appear to be copied from somewhere else.

That's the one Thanks Mack I read so many that night I couldn't remember which one it was I forgot all about looking it up, left work at 6:00pm and was picking up furniture until midnight. Obviously going straight to bed was my top priority at this point (not my Rifts books) 5am comes very quickly
It didn't look like a copy and paste error to me either.

Unless they happen to be lemurian or are good friends with the lemurians. The armor restrictions were all fun and games until you can get mages running around in bio armor that does not negatively impact their casting and one of them in fact gives them a big PPE battery and the armor of a light borg.

Ziggurat the Eternal wrote:Mages have to have the most lenient gm ever, or be very high level before their mdc protections are worth even a suit of plastic man armor, and much higher still to be immune to anything. they are practicly worthless at low levels.

The armor debate (cat fight?) was funny. It looks like some people want to stand and deliver in combat as a mage, as opposed to.... you know, use magic to get around the physics of this world to solve problems.

Shadowmeld and trance gets a free set of armor. (order him to take it off, it's a simple instruction) You're out 20 ppe.
Is it daytime? Chameleon

If you really want to fist fight a juicer, try chromatic protection, he gets -10 to all combat actions every time he tries to do anything to you in melee. The previously stated fist of fury turns your punches into SNPS equivalents (the mage who does this has bodybuilding, athletics, kickboxing, juggling (+1 init!!!) and boxing, I can almost guarantee it)

Repel animals, you just saved your group from 100k in repairs from a T-rex for 7ppe

Energy field is 10ppe, provides 60MDC,

Invisibility simple? Everything you're carrying, including fusion blocks are invisible. Invisible fusion blocks...

These spells are all levels 1-4. If you want to play a mage so that one day you can cast annihilate one day, you're doing it wrong IMO.

Also, you can wear whatever heavy armor you want with no penalties, as long as it's out of natural materials. Just use some MD staples to hook up a makeshift fury beetle chestpiece. All of the other armors look like I could toss a MD grenade out there and turn the back of their knees into puddles of goo.

In the same book with the same rules that suck soooooo hard about armor, you can also now get boxing (I just imagine people complaining about mage armor restrictions would be the type to get boxing on their char every time) and cast 5 spells a melee, as opposed to previously being able to cast 2.

You guys should check out KS's take on this in Fed O' Magic pg 65 (dunno revised pg#)
"In this case, however, I think these players are missing a few
things behind the magic characters and role-playing in general:
I. “Role” playing can he much more than just shoot ‘em up
combat.
2. Diversity is good.
3. All things are not equal!
4. To say spell casters are “wimps” is crazy!"



To go with the theme of the OP though. Spells like fool's gold having a 60% chance of working is just stupid. You're going to die if you try to scam someone. Variable saving throws on simple illusions and charmy spells would be welcome.

flatline wrote:Going to go a little counter-topic, but I just thought I'd make a quick comment on some of the things that I've liked so far in RUE.

Headhunter OCC: Definitely better write-up than RMB. I'm still not interested in playing one, but they seem more real now.

Merc Soldier OCC: Manages to cover lots of the gaps that existed in RMB using a single OCC that a simple MOS choice. Nicely done.

Elemental Fusionist: Okay, this OCC is lame. It doesn't feel like Rifts at all. It feels like it was yanked out of some video game (oh wait, it was...). Potent once you get a couple of levels under your belt, but still lame.

Ley Line Walker and Shifter: Excellent rewrites. I don't know that I like all the changes, but now you have real reasons for choosing one over the other. There's a bunch of power creep which I'm not a fan of, but at least now OCC mechanics capture the flavor of the OCC descriptions. That was missing in RMB.

Makes me wonder what a "modern" update of the Temporal Wizard and Temporal Warrior would look like.

Oh, and I was kind of surprised to see that Body Fixer and Cyber-Doc were still included. I half expected those OCCs to disappear or become NPC OCCs like the Alchemist is in Fantasy.

--flatline

Counter point
I thought a headhunter occ was a merc soldier occ.
The V-8 fusionist well there was that failed rifts video game where it was featured.

jaymz wrote:

Giant2005 wrote:The most ridiculous thing in the Palladium world has to be the forced OCC change that goes with Augmentation.

I am with Giant on this one.

I do not use the Juicer "OCC" or Crazy "OCC". I allow the conversion then give a list of OCC's that those with that conversion would likely be ie Mercenary Soldier, Wilderness Scout or even Vagabond.

Calling it the Juicer OCC is saying all juicers get this training along with the conversion which to me makes no sense.

Why can't you have a Juicer Scholar? He'd be good a combat by default and with his ability to be awake and alert more/longer he can also learn and disseminate more knowledge.

*nod*
It's one of those "who, wha... HOWWWW?!!!" things that make new(ish) players shake their head.

Pepsi Jedi wrote:

The Beast wrote:The GI Joe rule, & the No-Armor-For-Mages rule.

The mage armor thing works fine for me. I understand where they were going with that one. The channeling of magic and focused use of PPE requires the mage to project it in a fashion (Magic) that is hampered by heavy armor.

Also as a matter of game balance it fits and keeps mages from being unbeatable super men. It's there on purpose.

Personally I've never understood this one (maybe because I don't have a D&D background). I just chalk it up as a grandfathered rule from PF1 which i've been told is Kevin's homebrew D&D setting that got made into it's own game.

Unless casting magic involves doing the hand jive and other complex movements that may be hampered by armor the only other explanation that comes to mind is possible static shock. No where have i read that the accumulation of magic power produces a large static electric field that if wearing armor would cause you to be shocked/electrocuted.

Every human kingdom that has a friendly non- human policy towards non humans now that is ridiculous to the point it goes against human nature itself.

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:Every human kingdom that has a friendly non- human policy towards non humans now that is ridiculous to the point it goes against human nature itself.

I'd like to think that kind of thinking is out-dated just like segregated water fountains.

--flatline

flatline wrote:

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:Every human kingdom that has a friendly non- human policy towards non humans now that is ridiculous to the point it goes against human nature itself.

I'd like to think that kind of thinking is out-dated just like segregated water fountains.

--flatline

But it's not its still alive and well, history is full of examples as is current events. Most of that think now hides behind a computer screen instead a sheet and comes in different colors now. But hey I think we should leave this for sound off vs on here, and I will say I have been caught off guard by some people and what comes out their mouths and knowing who they are.

The Oh So Amazing Nate wrote:

Pepsi Jedi wrote:

The Beast wrote:The GI Joe rule, & the No-Armor-For-Mages rule.

The mage armor thing works fine for me. I understand where they were going with that one. The channeling of magic and focused use of PPE requires the mage to project it in a fashion (Magic) that is hampered by heavy armor.

Also as a matter of game balance it fits and keeps mages from being unbeatable super men. It's there on purpose.

Personally I've never understood this one (maybe because I don't have a D&D background). I just chalk it up as a grandfathered rule from PF1 which i've been told is Kevin's homebrew D&D setting that got made into it's own game.

Unless casting magic involves doing the hand jive and other complex movements that may be hampered by armor the only other explanation that comes to mind is possible static shock. No where have i read that the accumulation of magic power produces a large static electric field that if wearing armor would cause you to be shocked/electrocuted.

Really with the change in the RUE for lower level spells to take only one melee action any problem that mages once had with armor is pretty much negated. So really even if they were still restricted to just light it would not be that much of a hinderance and now with the stipulation being unnatural materials being what causes the problem means there really is almost no limitation any more. With things like fury beetle armor or even the crazy lemurian bio armors the rule now is mostly cosmetic to force your casters to look more like casters I guess as MDC wise it is a wash.

Ridiculous things in the Rifts books...
Trying to maintain that Mega-Damage is rare when they come out with new MD weapons and armor in almost every book.
The Techno-Wizard is the only mage class that doesn't get spells per level.
Techno-Wizard also seems to be the only mage class that doesn't get any Lores as standard.
The 'need' to nerf Carella's works.
Those are just the ones that spring instantly to mind.

Darn it, I forgot about the spells. While Rifts has a massive amount of combat spells, I rarely come across any proper utility spells. What happened to porting over the Palladium Fantasy material? We would adore that!
Also, where are the real magic items? I am not talking about TW or Rune stuff. I mean the REAL magical items from Palladium Fantasy.
And what about the rune items? Where is the awesome, bowels-quaking power combined with a potentially life-shattering detriment? I remember when a rune sword was something you went and hunted down, quested for, sacrificed to acquire. Now it has a price tag?

There are plenty of things that stretch my suspension of disbelief. There are plenty of things that defy the laws of physics. There are internal inconsistencies. There are typos.

Ridiculous, though? The most ridiculous thing I've seen in the books is the Glitter Girl.

I am also going to have to go with the Glitter Girl as most outright ridiculous. Just knowing it is in there pretty much ruins Free Quebec for me.

Next up though, although a small thing, was the Mutant Bears from Lonestar getting a Supernatural PS. Just boggling. That bear, though it may hit hard, punches with the same or greater force than a modern day tank. A tank. And it's a bear. Because... Bears are strong? Seriously, a PS of around 5D6, with different types adding 2-3D6 extra. Why does it need to be Supernatural? Just insane, considering the rest of Lonestar is actually very solid and grounded in reason (or at least game consistancy).

1.Ngr and their "special" ammo, and they are the only ones that have them.
2. Erin tarn

Erin Tarn was a great idea (though a little heavy handed) earlier on. Her commentary/reasoning in the Tolkeen wars, and stories including her (particularly that atrocious 'duel' in Cyber Knights) just got worse and worse as they went on.

The NGR being the only ones to realize that radioactive ammo lessens/nullifies supernatural creatures abilities to heal, I can deal with.