Forums of the Megaverse®

Posted: **Fri Apr 14, 2006 12:25 am**

RainOfSteel wrote:An earlier poster did a "summary" of material up to a certain point in the topic.

That was me. I can't say I'm up to doing it again.

As for your (unquoted) complaint about attribution, I admittedly don't seem to remember doing that. I just figured an error pointed out was an error pointed out. In many cases the error was pointed out multiple times, so attribution would have required citing multiple people. So, I judged cataloging the errors was more important than cataloging the editors.

RainOfSteel wrote:Why not make a summary of material after that point and post it along with a link to the last summary post?

I also think this is a fine idea. But I would like to put forward this little thought:

It's been 8 months since this book was released. Fans have already pointed out most of the errata. Where are the official corrections?

Posted: **Fri Apr 14, 2006 11:54 pm**

Gabriel_V wrote:It's been 8 months since this book was released. Fans have already pointed out most of the errata. Where are the official corrections?

I don't know.

I have begun to believe that we will not see them.

Posted: **Sat Apr 15, 2006 12:20 am**

RainOfSteel wrote:I have begun to believe that we will not see them.

I am feeling the same way.

Posted: **Sat Apr 15, 2006 2:30 am**

Mandalorian wrote:
RainOfSteel wrote:I have begun to believe that we will not see them.

I am feeling the same way.

It'll probably be after open house.

Posted: **Sun Apr 16, 2006 12:29 am**

dark brandon wrote:
It'll probably be after open house.

One can only hope. At worst if a second printing of RUE is not done at the very least they should put a PDF that can be downloaded from the site and included in an upcoming Rifter. Imo it's badly needed and should get more priority.

Posted: **Sun Apr 16, 2006 9:58 am**

Mandalorian wrote:
dark brandon wrote:
It'll probably be after open house.

One can only hope. At worst if a second printing of RUE is not done at the very least they should put a PDF that can be downloaded from the site and included in an upcoming Rifter. Imo it's badly needed and should get more priority.

there will be some benifits to getting certain info from players face to face, especially if there are other changes that may take place. And they probably want to get it right the first time so they don't have to change the errata again and again.

Posted: **Tue Apr 18, 2006 2:42 am**

Mandalorian wrote:
dark brandon wrote:
It'll probably be after open house.

One can only hope. At worst if a second printing of RUE is not done at the very least they should put a PDF that can be downloaded from the site and included in an upcoming Rifter. Imo it's badly needed and should get more priority.

I very much doubt they would put any PDFs up, unless there was some critical material left out.

Posted: **Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:45 am**

Errata should be considered a living document. It can be constantly updated as needed.

SJ Games is a good example of this. Check out their site for their gurps books, it'll have all errata listed, and the versions too, per printing. Palladium should adopt something similar to this.

The 2nd printing of the R:UE should be quite interesting when it arrives. At the rate I play rifts though, I probably won't be buying one. We don't play that often anymore. I still buy the books to read though.

Posted: **Sun May 07, 2006 4:28 pm**

CV-212 and C-12 damage stats flipped.

C-12 should read:
Damage: 2D6 M.D. or 4D6 M.D. or 6D6 S.D.C.

CV-212 should read:
Damage: Setting One: 2D6 M.D. single shot, Setting Two (Burst) 6D6 M.D. and Setting Three (S.D.C.) 6D6 S.D.C.

Posted: **Fri Jun 09, 2006 3:12 pm**

Well, Galactus Kid is working on the official errata now... so find all the errata you can before it becomes official for the second print!

Posted: **Fri Jun 09, 2006 4:39 pm**

hey

is there anything that is actually good about this RUE book?????

man i would be embarrassed if i had given the ok to release a book this flawed, to me this is disrespectful of palladium fans

just wanted to get it off my chest

bye

Posted: **Fri Jun 09, 2006 4:53 pm**

Cyberman 2.0. wrote:
dark brandon wrote:
It'll probably be after open house.

One can only hope. At worst if a second printing of RUE is not done at the very least they should put a PDF that can be downloaded from the site and included in an upcoming Rifter. Imo it's badly needed and should get more priority.

Well looks like there will be:

The Galactus Kid wrote:Well, its 1:15 AM, so I guess its the 9th. Kevin just went to sleep and actually busted his hump on some Madhaven stuff he wanted to do, which makes me pretty happy. I finished marking the R:UE errata in my Ultimate edition book and I'm going to go over it all with Kevin shortly tomorrow so I can get the plates and redo it and get it ready for second printing.

There WILL be a downloadable copy of the errata soon. I don't know if we are going to put it up as a word document or as a .pdf or both, but it will be there.

I'm going to read a couple more rifter articles and then try to go to sleep before 3. (yeah right)

Posted: **Sat Jun 10, 2006 8:47 pm**

Blue Eyes wrote:is there anything that is actually good about this RUE book?????
man i would be embarrassed if i had given the ok to release a book this flawed

Actually, for a book this size, I'm surprised how little actually got through. Some of them were silly mistakes or errors in the layout, but when this thread was originally 24 freakin pages long alot of it was silly bickering and repeats. I can't tell you how many times i read through the thread and almost EVERY SINGLE MENTIONED ERRATA was repeated at least twice. Sometimes 6 or 7 times.

Posted: **Sun Jun 11, 2006 1:22 am**

Blue Eyes wrote:hey

is there anything that is actually good about this RUE book?????
man i would be embarrassed if i had given the ok to release a book this flawed, to me this is disrespectful of palladium fans

just wanted to get it off my chest

bye

yeah...about that...

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.p ... 163&page=1

Books are gonna be flawed, regardless of who makes them. Wizards is much larger than palladium, yet, it's books are filled with things that need to be corrected. In otherwords...no fan should take it personally. It's gonna happen.

Posted: **Sun Jun 11, 2006 1:23 am**

The Galactus Kid wrote:
Blue Eyes wrote:is there anything that is actually good about this RUE book?????
man i would be embarrassed if i had given the ok to release a book this flawed

Actually, for a book this size, I'm surprised how little actually got through. Some of them were sill mistakes or errors in the layout, but when this thread was originally 24 freakin pages long alot of it was silly bickering and repeats. I can't tell you how many times i read through the thread and almost EVERY SINGLE MENTIONED ERRATA was repeated at least twice. Sometimes 6 or 7 times.

Errata: Should be Silly.

Posted: **Sun Jun 11, 2006 2:17 am**

I was just saying that for a book of its size I'm surprised that there wasn't MORE. I also was the one digging through page upon page of bickering and fighting IN THE ERRATA THREAD which had nothing to do with the errata itself. I'm just glad that I'm done with the thread and that NMI took it down to a concise managable size.

It is 2:18 AM and I've finished the errata markup so Kevin and I are going to discuss it next week or so.

Posted: **Sun Jun 11, 2006 5:59 am**

hello

dark brandon wrote:
"Books are gonna be flawed, regardless of who makes them. Wizards is much larger than palladium, yet, it's books are filled with things that need to be corrected. In otherwords...no fan should take it personally. It's gonna happen."

i guess this is just where we disagree. while it is corret that there is going to be some flaws in a book after it has been released, i dont think RUE falls into the category of a few flaws. everything that has to do with silly mistakes and errors in the layout could have been prevented and i personally think its just sloppy work to release the book and have the fans find and correct the mistakes, so that a less flawed second printing can be released. you could involve the fans (a select few, im sure u must know many personally) before you release the book, have some of them have a look at it BEFORE it is released, that way alot of the flaws can be avoided. and i do kinda take it personally, and making the argument "the others do it as poorly as we do", is not really a good argument is it? if i handed in a paper with as many flaws and inconsistencies it would have consequences. dont get me wrong, i like palladium and i am a big fan, but as i see it kevin and crew have always been synonymous with quality and innivation - why not keep up the good work? instead of starting work with the attitude "its gonna happen" try using "lets prevent it".

Galectus kid wrote:
"Some of them were silly mistakes or errors in the layout, but when this thread was originally 24 freakin pages long alot of it was silly bickering and repeats.

this makes me a little angry, of course people are gonna complain, i mean we are effectively doing the editing for u guys at palladium. if i go and buy a computer (or any product) and find that it is filled with flaws then of course i am going to complain and maybe even ask to get my money back. i dont think that there is any such thing as silly bickering, all these complaints come from somewhere and most of them address actual problems. bickering and repeats are what you get when you release an ULTIMATE edition that is so far from being ultimate that it is just sad.

c ya

Posted: **Sun Jun 11, 2006 12:48 pm**

Blue Eyes wrote:hello

dark brandon wrote:
"Books are gonna be flawed, regardless of who makes them. Wizards is much larger than palladium, yet, it's books are filled with things that need to be corrected. In otherwords...no fan should take it personally. It's gonna happen."

i guess this is just where we disagree. while it is corret that there is going to be some flaws in a book after it has been released, i dont think RUE falls into the category of a few flaws. everything that has to do with silly mistakes and errors in the layout could have been prevented and i personally think its just sloppy work to release the book and have the fans find and correct the mistakes, so that a less flawed second printing can be released. you could involve the fans (a select few, im sure u must know many personally) before you release the book, have some of them have a look at it BEFORE it is released, that way alot of the flaws can be avoided. and i do kinda take it personally, and making the argument "the others do it as poorly as we do", is not really a good argument is it? if i handed in a paper with as many flaws and inconsistencies it would have consequences. dont get me wrong, i like palladium and i am a big fan, but as i see it kevin and crew have always been synonymous with quality and innivation - why not keep up the good work? instead of starting work with the attitude "its gonna happen" try using "lets prevent it".

Galectus kid wrote:
"Some of them were silly mistakes or errors in the layout, but when this thread was originally 24 freakin pages long alot of it was silly bickering and repeats.

this makes me a little angry, of course people are gonna complain, i mean we are effectively doing the editing for u guys at palladium. if i go and buy a computer (or any product) and find that it is filled with flaws then of course i am going to complain and maybe even ask to get my money back. i dont think that there is any such thing as silly bickering, all these complaints come from somewhere and most of them address actual problems. bickering and repeats are what you get when you release an ULTIMATE edition that is so far from being ultimate that it is just sad.

c ya

Perhaps you shouldn't have placed all the emphasis of GK's post on the word "silly" and focused more on the "bickering" aspect.

Instead of just reported errata and movin on, a few people took the opprotunity to Palladium bash or argue when it wasn't necessary (some points of Errata very well should be debated). Note that I said a few, not all or even most. However, a few, when loud enough, can sometimes outweigh the majority. (Their are plenty, the vast majority, of posters that behaved themselves on this thread, and I commend them).

Also, the constant repeating of errata made this thread much longer than it could or rather should be. If you were to post errata on this thread, than it was YOUR obligation to make sure it wasn't already reported. Perhaps a few of these people were too busy to check through a monster thread, they could have either used the search function, or in the alternative waited to post the repeat when they had the time to wade through the thread.

~ Josh

Posted: **Sun Jun 11, 2006 12:51 pm**

Blue Eyes wrote:hey

is there anything that is actually good about this RUE book?????
man i would be embarrassed if i had given the ok to release a book this flawed, to me this is disrespectful of palladium fans

just wanted to get it off my chest

bye

RUE is great, the majority of fans love it.

And despite a few pieces of errata (which have NEVER interfered with my use of the book, BTW), it's a great book.

~ Josh

Posted: **Sun Jun 11, 2006 1:15 pm**

Blue Eyes wrote:this makes me a little angry, of course people are gonna complain, i mean we are effectively doing the editing for u guys at palladium.

First let me just say that I AM NOT employed by Palladium. My opinion is NOT the opinion of Palladium, nor do I claim to speak for Kevin or any of the other guys who work for Palladium.

Blue Eyes wrote:if i go and buy a computer (or any product) and find that it is filled with flaws then of course i am going to complain and maybe even ask to get my money back.

Thats the problem. A computer is a tool. While many people see R:UE as a TOOL BOX full of tools that they can use to run their games, it is by no means critical (nor was ANY of the errata) to running a game. Josh has even posted that it has NEVER gotten in the way of running a game for him.

Role playing is also an ENTERTAINMENT CHOICE. If you go and see a movie but you don't lke the ending, you are going to walk out saying "Well, that was a waste of $8.00" but you aren't going to go complain to the manager, or better yet, to HOLLYWOOD to get them to give your money back because of a flawed product. Hell, I had to read "The Good Earth" by Pearl S. Buck. I hated that book. It's terrible. I didn't go back to the book store and ask for my money back. Thats just stupid.

Blue Eyes wrote: i dont think that there is any such thing as silly bickering

You would be wrong. There is. While the majority of posters on this original thread were GREAT and simply pointed out errata, as josh said, there were a few who would constantly bicker about the most INCONSEQUETIAL item and carry it out for PAGES!!! THAT is silly bickering, and it derails a thread that was helpful, extremely useful, and a resource that the writers (and sadly the intern) had to wade through.

Blue Eyes wrote:these complaints come from somewhere and most of them address actual problems

Good. Thats not bickering. Thats pointing out errata, which was what the thread was for.

Blue Eyes wrote:bickering and repeats are what you get when you release an ULTIMATE edition that is so far from being ultimate that it is just sad.

No, bickering and repeats are what you get when you ACCIDENTALY USE A SEMI-COLON INSTEAD OF A COLON and 6 people point it out and rant for 4 pages about how disrespectful it was for palladium to slight their fans because of errors like that. Yet again...it's just stupid.

I want to remind EVERYONE that I do not speak for Palladium, it's editors, Kevin Siemieda, or anyone other than myself.

Posted: **Sun Jun 11, 2006 1:41 pm**

I've said it before in another thread, but I'm bored today and feel like making a point, (even if its minor).

The errata issues could have had a simple solution:
Don't make a whole new book when we didn't need one.

I think we were more in need of a Rifts: Revised than a whole new edition.
I understand that Kevin S. and a few others told us (REPEATEDLY) that the new book was NOT going to be a Revised or V.2.
But after spending the past few months comparing the RUE to the GMG and even RMB, I realized thats exactly what we needed: A revised edition.

In fact, if the RUE 2nd print or the new Sourcebooks don't address most of the current issues (errata and missing info), I'm gonna go back to complaining about not having a Rifts: Revised.

Having said all that, I think the RUE was darn good its first time out and it also helps to support all the new material that came out since the RMB.
My only current beef is that a newb who picks up the book is going to need lots of coaching and help to figure out the game.

My other suggestion (which doesn't really apply here, oh well) is they seriously consider a Rifts: Game Master Guide and Players Guide similar to (but legally different from) the guides used in D&D. I think there's enough material in modern Rifts to warrant two rule books.
The only obvious flaw in my theory is that we already have a GMG. So a new one thats radically different would mess everybody up.

On a completely unrelated note: HEY MODS!
If I scan and OCR all my books and rearrange the info just for myself, is it OK to make my own personal books with the Palladium material?
The next question is: How much do you guys trust me not to pass that book around the internet?
I can make promises left and right, but you guys have to decide if I'm full of crap or not.

Posted: **Sun Jun 11, 2006 1:42 pm**

hello

i like many things about the RUE book also, i guess this discussion is really about a difference in opinion when it comes to what we expect from an ULTIMATE edition book. whether or not the majority of the palladium fans love the book or not, i am not sure, but my guess would be, yes u are probably right. at the same time however even more people would like the book if it wasnt full of flaws... everything that has to do with silly mistakes and errors in the layout could have been prevented. aside from that i have some major complaints when it comes to changing rules for no apparant reason and for powering (overpowering even) up OCCs for no reason (Cyber Knight is an ecxcellent example of this, the OCC has completely lost its old feel and has been transformed into a CS battling juggernaut).
personally i think the rules about supernatural stength no longer stacking with weapons damage is very very odd, and as you wrote josh, i believe that is actually a good example of how a few people make enough noise to actually influence the people at palladium, for the worse! some say it is a balance issue, but no one in my game group or anyone i know have ever complained about this unbalancing their game.

Josh wrote:
"Perhaps you shouldn't have placed all the emphasis of GK's post on the word "silly" and focused more on the "bickering" aspect"

well i dont think i did that actually, as i already wrote in my post above bickering is what u get when u do a poor job - sorry but that is really what i think, the complaints all come from somewhere and most of them address actual problems.
some may be repeating errata and i disagree with you about it being the readers obligation to read the entire post before contributing, if we are to do palladiums job for them, at least let them do the work of going through the posts to pick up useful errata.

the part i wrote about it being disrespectful of fans is honestly what i believe, otherwise i wouldnt write it. people buy the books because they want to play and because they love the palladium universe. i expect that when i spend the money i will get a book that has been thoroughly edited down and into every last detail, grammar even. that is what i aim to do when i for example write a paper. i know palladium can do better so lets see it !

c ya[/quote]

Posted: **Sun Jun 11, 2006 2:04 pm**

The Galactus Kid wrote:
Blue Eyes wrote:this makes me a little angry, of course people are gonna complain, i mean we are effectively doing the editing for u guys at palladium.

First let me just say that I AM NOT employed by Palladium. My opinion is NOT the opinion of Palladium, nor do I claim to speak for Kevin or any of the other guys who work for Palladium.

BE: okay i actually thought u were part of the palladium gang, sorry bout that, well i hope some of the people of palladium do occasionally come here to read the posts.

Blue Eyes wrote:if i go and buy a computer (or any product) and find that it is filled with flaws then of course i am going to complain and maybe even ask to get my money back.

Thats the problem. A computer is a tool. While many people see R:UE as a TOOL BOX full of tools that they can use to run their games, it is by no means critical (nor was ANY of the errata) to running a game. Josh has even posted that it has NEVER gotten in the way of running a game for him.

BE: it would not be critical for people who have the earlier books (and josh probably does), i do think rookies who only have the RUE book may be in trouble though.

Role playing is also an ENTERTAINMENT CHOICE. If you go and see a movie but you don't lke the ending, you are going to walk out saying "Well, that was a waste of $8.00" but you aren't going to go complain to the manager, or better yet, to HOLLYWOOD to get them to give your money back because of a flawed product. Hell, I had to read "The Good Earth" by Pearl S. Buck. I hated that book. It's terrible. I didn't go back to the book store and ask for my money back. Thats just stupid.

BE: i think ur example with the movies is way off. again we disagree (which is just fine) because i do consider RUE (or any other RPG book) to be a tool and not a piece of fiction with a storyline, beginning and ending like dan browns famous book. reading a novel is not the same as reading the rules book of a role playing game. if i could get my money back from palladium from the first RUE book to purchase the seconds printing with less flaws i would, point is i shouldnt have to.

Blue Eyes wrote: i dont think that there is any such thing as silly bickering

You would be wrong. There is. While the majority of posters on this original thread were GREAT and simply pointed out errata, as josh said, there were a few who would constantly bicker about the most INCONSEQUETIAL item and carry it out for PAGES!!! THAT is silly bickering, and it derails a thread that was helpful, extremely useful, and a resource that the writers (and sadly the intern) had to wade through.

my point is nothing is inconsequential, dont make so many mistakes and people would have nothing to complain about. hand over the book to some players and have them go through it before it is released.

Blue Eyes wrote:these complaints come from somewhere and most of them address actual problems

Good. Thats not bickering. Thats pointing out errata, which was what the thread was for.

BE:

Blue Eyes wrote:bickering and repeats are what you get when you release an ULTIMATE edition that is so far from being ultimate that it is just sad.

No, bickering and repeats are what you get when you ACCIDENTALY USE A SEMI-COLON INSTEAD OF A COLON and 6 people point it out and rant for 4 pages about how disrespectful it was for palladium to slight their fans because of errors like that. Yet again...it's just stupid.

BE: okay i have to agree that some errata is less important than other, but imo alot of this can be avoided if the editors took their time to do it right.

I want to remind EVERYONE that I do not speak for Palladium, it's editors, Kevin Siemieda, or anyone other than myself.

BE: yeah yeah we get it

oh and by the way i would appreciate you not calling people stupid for sharing their opinions...

Posted: **Sun Jun 11, 2006 3:37 pm**

Blue Eyes wrote:i guess this is just where we disagree. while it is corret that there is going to be some flaws in a book after it has been released, i dont think RUE falls into the category of a few flaws.
everything that has to do with silly mistakes and errors in the layout could have been prevented and i personally think its just sloppy work to release the book and have the fans find and correct the mistakes, so that a less flawed second printing can be released. you could involve the fans (a select few, im sure u must know many personally) before you release the book, have some of them have a look at it BEFORE it is released, that way alot of the flaws can be avoided. and i do kinda take it personally, and making the argument "the others do it as poorly as we do", is not really a good argument is it?

My point being that mistakes are unavoidable, no matter what kind of company you have or how large it is or how much money you spend on it, I didn't post the Players Handbook 2 Errata up to show "Hey they do bad, so should we." I posted it to prove it doesn't matter how careful you are, mistakes WILL get through. And for a book the size of RUE, it's not half as bad, in comparison to say the PH2, which is smaller and made by a much larger company, while costing generally the same price.

Send, the idea of having fans look over the book may help, a bit, but like I said, some things will still get through.

if i handed in a paper with as many flaws and inconsistencies it would have consequences. dont get me wrong, i like palladium and i am a big fan, but as i see it kevin and crew have always been synonymous with quality and innivation - why not keep up the good work? instead of starting work with the attitude "its gonna happen" try using "lets prevent it".

Palladium has always been synonymous with typographical errors, they attempt to prevent it, but for a company it's size, errors will happen. But they don't happen any more than larger companies which means they are doing something right.

Posted: **Sun Jun 11, 2006 3:38 pm**

See post below GK....

Posted: **Sun Jun 11, 2006 3:38 pm**

Blue Eyes wrote:by the way i would appreciate you not calling people stupid for sharing their opinions...

I never called you stupid. You bring up interesting points and I respect you for that.

#1 I called the idea of trying to get your oney back from the entertainment industry simply because you don't like their product stupid.

#2 I called arguing and bickering about the mis-use of a semi-colon stupid.

I called the concepts (NEITHER OF WHICH WERE YOURS...just strikingly similar) stupid.

Posted: **Sun Jun 11, 2006 3:44 pm**

Blue Eyes wrote:BE: yeah yeah we get it oh and by the way i would appreciate you not calling people stupid for sharing their opinions...

He made 2 "stupid" comments. One on him thinking about returning a book and asking for money back because it was bad. IE: asking for a return on entertainment. Not calling anyone stupid. He's calling the act stupid.

The other was more in line with this is a thread on errata, not to argue about things (much like we're doing now), which is what most of this thread has in it. Once again the act (of posting in a thread obviously marked for one thing and posting about another) is stupid. In otherwords, me posting this is an act of stupidity since I should start a new thread. But he's not saying my opinion or I am stupid. In reality, I'm just lazy.

Posted: **Sun Jun 11, 2006 3:54 pm**

Dark Brandon wrote:In reality, i'm just lazy.

Yes. You are. hahaha. You got a better job yet?

Posted: **Sun Jun 11, 2006 4:05 pm**

The Galactus Kid wrote:
Dark Brandon wrote:In reality, i'm just lazy.

Yes. You are. hahaha. You got a better job yet?

I work at a strip club cooking for naked women, are there better jobs out there? Actually, still looking for that hospital job.

Posted: **Sun Jun 11, 2006 5:11 pm**

that sounds like a pretty good job to many perverts.

Posted: **Sun Jun 11, 2006 5:12 pm**

Gomen_Nagai wrote:that sounds like a pretty good job to many perverts.

as GK will atest too...they don't get much pervier than me.

Posted: **Sun Jun 11, 2006 5:31 pm**

I have to agree with Blue Eyes that the movie comparison is way off.

If you go to a movie, your involvement in said movie is between 1 1/2 - 3 1/2 hours, not counting previews. If you walk out feeling like you wasted $8, that's the end of it. Same thing with the novel comparison, once you read a novel, your engagement with it has expired, whether you use it again is up to you (which is the intent of most literature, though many authors would like it if people read their work over and over again, in the end it really doesn't matter though).

A roleplaying rule book is meant to be used over and over again, probably every weekend, if not more. Plus, the fact that you will be using the book repeatedly is what the RPG company is banking on.

The comparison is off, on an intrisic level.

A more valid comparison would be buying a deep fryer or DVD player that had some flaw in it, as it is highly likely that you intend to use either item more than once, probably once a week, if not more.

~ Josh

Posted: **Sun Jun 11, 2006 6:51 pm**

The Galactus Kid wrote:
Blue Eyes wrote:by the way i would appreciate you not calling people stupid for sharing their opinions...

I never called you stupid. You bring up interesting points and I respect you for that.

#1 I called the idea of trying to get your oney back from the entertainment industry simply because you don't like their product stupid.

#2 I called arguing and bickering about the mis-use of a semi-colon stupid.

I called the concepts (NEITHER OF WHICH WERE YOURS...just strikingly similar) stupid.

okay no problem then :ok:

Posted: **Sun Jun 11, 2006 7:03 pm**

Posted: **Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:29 am**

Y'all are crazy...Its Palladium!!! You should be used to it!!! I consider it a great "idea company" but execution has always been lacking. Just so long as they keep pumping out new material, its interesting and cheap, I will keep buying.

I do have many complaints with certain books and with the system at large, but it's Palladium (so its to be expected) and I spent 75% or less of what I would on a book from another publisher.

Posted: **Mon Jun 12, 2006 3:29 pm**

Josh Sinsapaugh wrote:I have to agree with Blue Eyes that the movie comparison is way off.

If you go to a movie, your involvement in said movie is between 1 1/2 - 3 1/2 hours, not counting previews. If you walk out feeling like you wasted $8, that's the end of it. Same thing with the novel comparison, once you read a novel, your engagement with it has expired, whether you use it again is up to you (which is the intent of most literature, though many authors would like it if people read their work over and over again, in the end it really doesn't matter though).

A roleplaying rule book is meant to be used over and over again, probably every weekend, if not more. Plus, the fact that you will be using the book repeatedly is what the RPG company is banking on.

The comparison is off, on an intrisic level.

A more valid comparison would be buying a deep fryer or DVD player that had some flaw in it, as it is highly likely that you intend to use either item more than once, probably once a week, if not more.

~ Josh

But the flaw itself would have to be managable. A deep fryer who's timer is 10 seconds off or a DVD player that automatically plays the movie instead of going directly to the "main title screne". There isn't anything hugely flawed that makes the book unusable.

Sure, you could return it, but you can't beat the price.

Posted: **Mon Jun 12, 2006 6:18 pm**

dark brandon wrote:
Josh Sinsapaugh wrote:I have to agree with Blue Eyes that the movie comparison is way off.

If you go to a movie, your involvement in said movie is between 1 1/2 - 3 1/2 hours, not counting previews. If you walk out feeling like you wasted $8, that's the end of it. Same thing with the novel comparison, once you read a novel, your engagement with it has expired, whether you use it again is up to you (which is the intent of most literature, though many authors would like it if people read their work over and over again, in the end it really doesn't matter though).

A roleplaying rule book is meant to be used over and over again, probably every weekend, if not more. Plus, the fact that you will be using the book repeatedly is what the RPG company is banking on.

The comparison is off, on an intrisic level.

A more valid comparison would be buying a deep fryer or DVD player that had some flaw in it, as it is highly likely that you intend to use either item more than once, probably once a week, if not more.

~ Josh

But the flaw itself would have to be managable. A deep fryer who's timer is 10 seconds off or a DVD player that automatically plays the movie instead of going directly to the "main title screne". There isn't anything hugely flawed that makes the book unusable..

Agreed and exactly.

See, the comparison works much better, and fits my personal view of RUE (that it kicks ass).

~ Josh

Posted: **Mon Jun 12, 2006 6:27 pm**

I'll give you that.

You are hereby awarded One GK point. Redeemable for an I told you so to anyone on any thread at a later date. (put it in your sig for safe keeping)

Posted: **Mon Jun 12, 2006 7:32 pm**

shadrak wrote:Y'all are crazy...Its Palladium!!! You should be used to it!!! I consider it a great "idea company" but execution has always been lacking. Just so long as they keep pumping out new material, its interesting and cheap, I will keep buying.

I do have many complaints with certain books and with the system at large, but it's Palladium (so its to be expected) and I spent 75% or less of what I would on a book from another publisher.

Um sorry no Shadrak. One never gets used to bad editing and inconsistencies from any game company. While there is not much I can do about the Palladium game mechanics I will and can point out when a book has errors in them. Palladium has been around for a very long time. They are not some new company so they imo should not errors in products. At the very least not many of them considering they have many years of experience. Though they do seem to be improving on that subject

So basically telling us "to suck it up" is BS pure and simple. That being said i am glad that Palladium now has the resources to deal with the errata. While I myself have RUE I will buy myself a second printing. I like having core books as free of errors as possible.

Posted: **Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:15 pm**

Well, if you go back many posts, it was said:

This thread should be about errata and not bickering back and forth. Go read back how many posts it's been since someone has listed errata. Maybe it's time to start listing more errata or discussing possible errata again.

How about things that are missing (could be errata in a way) that we would like in the Sourcebook 1 Ultimate since it's just missing completely from RUE?

I place my first votes:

Some Maps. Hard for people to play without these, especially since not everyone is from the States and may not even know where Michigan is! Plus the landscape for Rifts is different than current time. So we need something. Something other than "look in the GMG". Doesn't have to be super crazy, that can be saved for an Atlas or similar style book.

Second, all the missing equipment and random encounter creation tables from RMB Original. Would be nice to have a bunch of these creation tables, not just the original one.

But these are things that I guess have been mentioned, G.K. hope you're making lotsa notes.

Lets move this thread in the right direction again...

Posted: **Tue Jun 13, 2006 10:48 pm**

Cyberman 2.0. wrote:[They are not some newbie company so they imo should not errors in products.

What's that proverb? The mote and the beam?

(Just Kidding)

~ Josh

Posted: **Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:35 pm**

Josh Sinsapaugh wrote:
What's that proverb? The mote and the beam?

(Just Kidding)

~ Josh

Thanks for pointing it out as I have corrected it.

Posted: **Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:39 pm**

Cyberman 2.0. wrote:
Josh Sinsapaugh wrote:
What's that proverb? The mote and the beam?

(Just Kidding)

~ Josh

Thanks for pointing it out as I have corrected it.

You're welcome.

No big deal, lord knows I make my fair share of spelling mistakes and syntax errors.

~ Josh

Posted: **Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:00 am**

Here's a goofy thought for errata. Any chance you could remove the two page color ad for the Ngage and replace it with a two page fully detailed color map of North America?

Posted: **Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:32 am**

I'm not sure if this is errata or not but the WP skill for targeting/throwing lists in it's description that you cannot take it unles syou already have an ancient WP for a weapon that is built for throwing. There are many things one might want to throw and be good at (like grenades, for example) that do not have a WP. So in order to get better at throwing grenades I need to first learn how to throw knives?

The crusader body armor has double the MDC of it's listing in the original Rifts main book. Not sure if that's an error or power creep.

I could not find mention in the ultimate book on black market contraband (like pre-rifts items), despite the fact that many characters usually start with a random value of the stuff.

Posted: **Wed Jun 14, 2006 10:50 am**

Glistam wrote:
The crusader body armor has double the MDC of it's listing in the original Rifts main book. Not sure if that's an error or power creep.

Awesome! Does it still have -0% prowl penalty?

If it does, then its a misprint. If not, it's power creep.

Posted: **Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:35 pm**

Devillin wrote:Any chance you could remove the two page color ad for the Ngage and replace it with a two page fully detailed color map of North America?

No. The N-Gage article will be removed like has been said all along, but it will be replaced with art instead. Currently they are deciding which pies or pieces to use, but I think they have already decided.

Posted: **Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:56 pm**

devillin wrote:Here's a goofy thought for errata. Any chance you could remove the two page color ad for the Ngage and replace it with a two page fully detailed color map of North America?

As much as I would LOVE to see this... it's hard to justify since many people will not have a 2nd Print copy. It would be nicer to see maps with Sourcebook 1 Ultimate - that way everyone will get them.

Plus, see my Map Booklet thread.....

Posted: **Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:53 pm**

Braden, GMPhD wrote:
Glistam wrote:
The crusader body armor has double the MDC of it's listing in the original Rifts main book. Not sure if that's an error or power creep.

Awesome! Does it still have -0% prowl penalty?

If it does, then its a misprint. If not, it's power creep.

They mention the new crusader is plate and chain, in the cyberknight chainmail one is still 55 mdc.

Posted: **Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:55 pm**

devillin wrote:Here's a goofy thought for errata. Any chance you could remove the two page color ad for the Ngage and replace it with a two page fully detailed color map of North America?

Instead of art how about putting in the old random monster generation tables from the RMB?

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Rifts Ultimate Edition Errata