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Good point, if you have forgotten that this is a debate about a fictional government in a fictional setting please,

Step back

Take a deep breath

and focus on reality.

darkbrandon wrote:

Larsen wrote:So we should just forsake freedom because it is harder to maintain than totalitarian dictatorship? Ok, whatever go join whatever the latest group is that shares the same thinking as you. Who is it this time? Oh yea the taliban.

At least I can still tell the difference between what the game is and what it is in the real world. My thinking of how the rifts game should work/does work has no implication on my real world philosophy. If you are unable to separate the two, then please, I beg of you seak help, as RPers already get enough bad press as it is.

In otherwords, I"d never think someone a racist because they place GTA, or A nazi lover if they play CS or what have you, nor would I make any snide comments like "Go join the Taliban", which is just in bad taste and poor form.

In case your wondering, If we were talking about GTA my views would be completely different than they are say...playing rifts or if I'm playing TMNT's.

My comment about real life, I admited to not knowing history, but that Freedom does not mean a thing if people don't use it. Just because people are free doesn't mean the people are protected and secured, just as being enslaved does not mean one is crippled and helpless.

Your post actually never specifies or hints that you were referring to the game. You also made it sound more like you were going tyrannical rule or something instead of freedom doesn't mean a thing if people don't use it. So to say that you do not support freedom and not show any kind of hint that you are saying that in the game you prefer to play the villian leads down the road of comparing you to others who would share your view. And that would be the taliban. Also picking the taliban is a very good choice as they are still one of the most talked about takers of freedom of modern times. I will not play the elephant in the room game to spare someones delicate feelings. If it is the truth, then suck it up because to sugar coat it is to start down the path of lying to yourself.

And also in these debates I talk more from the point of view of who is actually right not who seems right. In game context my lower powered players mostly know nothing of the cs or if human tend toward the view point of the cs being the right side(unless they have been to lazlo or any other more free society than the cs)

But the topic isn't in your games as a normal human character that doesn't actually know what the cs is really about how do you feel. The topic is do I support the cs?. Now looking at the books and knowing all of what the cs does, I weigh the pro vs the cons of the cs and they come up wanting for the pros. Their methods and attitude fits that of a villian, because they are one of the main villians of the game. period. To read it all and look at other places like lazlo and see the difference in the two and still say the cs is the good guys is looking at the cs through rose colored glasses.

Larsen wrote:Your post actually never specifies or hints that you were referring to the game. You also made it sound more like you were going tyrannical rule or something instead of freedom doesn't mean a thing if people don't use it. So to say that you do not support freedom and not show any kind of hint that you are saying that in the game you prefer to play the villian leads down the road of comparing you to others who would share your view.

You are incorrect and you assume too much and you need to go reread past post of mine which specifically mention that my posts are in reference to the game. Your inability to separate reality from a game reality is dangeriously presumptous. You have no knowledge of me or what I am. Nor do I make any of you, except that you are confusing my taste of reality and of a specific fantasy.

And that would be the taliban. Also picking the taliban is a very good choice as they are still one of the most talked about takers of freedom of modern times.

I fail to see how the killing of RL human's and children of todays world is something you say I should join when I play IC a fantasy game. Please, elaborate how the killing of innocent people in real life is the same as killing of cactus people in the game. as I said, this is a game. What taliban do is real and in no way shape or form have I lead you to believe anything except that which you want to believe. As I said, saying "Go join the taliban" is in poor taste, poor manor and a sign of someone who has difficulty telling reality from fantasy.

To your mind, because I play GTA I should go join a gang or kill someone, and I shouldn't believe in law inforcement.

I will not play the elephant in the room game to spare someones delicate feelings. If it is the truth, then suck it up because to sugar coat it is to start down the path of lying to yourself.

You do not have to play anything. Asking someone to respet your point of view is simply that. No where is anyone talking about RL genociede of anything. Re-read the arguments. None of what is in rifts is REAL. You can claim to lay down the law and be all blunt about it, but in fact, your simply using poor form.

The topic is do I support the cs?. Now looking at the books and knowing all of what the cs does, I weigh the pro vs the cons of the cs and they come up wanting for the pros. Their methods and attitude fits that of a villian, because they are one of the main villians of the game. period. To read it all and look at other places like lazlo and see the difference in the two and still say the cs is the good guys is looking at the cs through rose colored glasses.

Exactly...Do you support a ficitional nation. The attitudes of them only come up because that is how the GM wishes them to come up? Don't believe me, read lonestar and that one general who's scrupulous, hell, alot of soldiers are probably of a good/unprincipled alignment. There are many ways to look at cs, and I will respect your view that CS is villains, but I would never say that because you see CS as only villains that you are one dimentional, ignorant or that your a tree hugging hippie, unless it's in a sort of jest/joke, course sometimes people such as yourself who obviously have trouble separating reality from fantasy might miss it and take it seriously.

In all honesty, I do have fun discussing the CS. They are so contraversial...the Eminem of Rifts. Occationally, you have to deal with the overly zealotry that tends to take the game WAY TOO SERIOUSLY making it less fun to discuss(In fact make it down right annoying). Except for the occational one's who can't tell the difference between reality and fantasy, I rather enjoy it.

darkbrandon wrote:

Larsen wrote:Your post actually never specifies or hints that you were referring to the game. You also made it sound more like you were going tyrannical rule or something instead of freedom doesn't mean a thing if people don't use it. So to say that you do not support freedom and not show any kind of hint that you are saying that in the game you prefer to play the villian leads down the road of comparing you to others who would share your view.

You are incorrect and you assume too much and you need to go reread past post of mine which specifically mention that my posts are in reference to the game. Your inability to separate reality from a game reality is dangeriously presumptous. You have no knowledge of me or what I am. Nor do I make any of you, except that you are confusing my taste of reality and of a specific fantasy.

Since that was the first post of yours I read on the subject I mistakenly thought you were had gone off the tangent and were talking about the real world. The above post is clearifing by what I arrived at my conclusions and explaining how I did assume too much.

And that would be the taliban. Also picking the taliban is a very good choice as they are still one of the most talked about takers of freedom of modern times.

I fail to see how the killing of RL human's and children of todays world is something you say I should join when I play IC a fantasy game. Please, elaborate how the killing of innocent people in real life is the same as killing of cactus people in the game. as I said, this is a game. What taliban do is real and in no way shape or form have I lead you to believe anything except that which you want to believe. As I said, saying "Go join the taliban" is in poor taste, poor manor and a sign of someone who has difficulty telling reality from fantasy.

To your mind, because I play GTA I should go join a gang or kill someone, and I shouldn't believe in law inforcement.

Since that was in the same paragraph in which I was explaining how the mentioning of the taliban was put into the original post that started all this you still want me to clearify? This was an explaination of why I chose the taliban as an example. They are the most current hate group I could think of at the time.

I will not play the elephant in the room game to spare someones delicate feelings. If it is the truth, then suck it up because to sugar coat it is to start down the path of lying to yourself.

You do not have to play anything. Asking someone to respet your point of view is simply that. No where is anyone talking about RL genociede of anything. Re-read the arguments. None of what is in rifts is REAL. You can claim to lay down the law and be all blunt about it, but in fact, your simply using poor form.

I took you to mean I had offended you and was saying how if it offened you that I used an actual hate group as an example for hate groups you need thicker skin. Now obviously I have misunderstood you once again. So please be so kind as to explain what "poor form" is. The only other time I have ever heard a similair phrase is in sword fighting.

The topic is do I support the cs?. Now looking at the books and knowing all of what the cs does, I weigh the pro vs the cons of the cs and they come up wanting for the pros. Their methods and attitude fits that of a villian, because they are one of the main villians of the game. period. To read it all and look at other places like lazlo and see the difference in the two and still say the cs is the good guys is looking at the cs through rose colored glasses.

Exactly...Do you support a ficitional nation. The attitudes of them only come up because that is how the GM wishes them to come up? Don't believe me, read lonestar and that one general who's scrupulous, hell, alot of soldiers are probably of a good/unprincipled alignment. There are many ways to look at cs, and I will respect your view that CS is villains, but I would never say that because you see CS as only villains that you are one dimentional, ignorant or that your a tree hugging hippie, unless it's in a sort of jest/joke, course sometimes people such as yourself who obviously have trouble separating reality from fantasy might miss it and take it seriously.

It really doesn't matter that the general is good it matters that what he is doing is wrong. The cs are the villians. the soldiers themselves might not actually be bad people. Also if you had read previous posts of mine you would know that I always felt that in this game the soldiers aren't bad just the leaders themselves I.E. prosek and his closest. Looks like I'm not the only one guilty of misunderstanding someone else because he never took the time to go reread some of my earlier posts.

And as far as how you view me I truely don't care. On the one hand you critize me for saying things about you and not know you or anything about you and then toward the end of your post here you make blatant statements about me and actually are suggesting that I am delusional when you know nothing about me. As I have said before and one final time I do not read your posts often and assumed incorrectly it seems that you had started talking about your personal views on the world. Since the last I basically said the same damn thing you misread it there it is for you nice and basic like. ok pumpkin.

barneyjb wrote:

nevermind barney you obviously are not able to grasp the comparison. {insert pity here}

No I understand your comparison Larson... I just disagree with it as being a valid one.

Your saying "Slave owners used my argument to keep African Americans slaves..."

I said "ok, but they were incorrect in the usage of that argument and it doesnt apply to this situation."

Then you said Im not grasping the comparison. I grasp it, I dont think it applies...

Barney

Well then barney, we agree to disagree on that then? It was a good little exchange of views though for awhile. But now I feel we are at a stalemate. Agreed?

*keeping eyes on barney, bows to a worthy opponent.*

Peace at last!

Larsen wrote:The above post is clearifing by what I arrived at my conclusions and explaining how I did assume too much.

Yes, you did.

Since that was in the same paragraph in which I was explaining how the mentioning of the taliban was put into the original post that started all this you still want me to clearify? This was an explaination of why I chose the taliban as an example. They are the most current hate group I could think of at the time.

It wasn't the mention of the taliban, only the mention that I should go join it.

I took you to mean I had offended you and was saying how if it offened you that I used an actual hate group as an example for hate groups you need thicker skin.

See above remark. I don't mind if you had used the taliban as an example, but you went overboard in saying I should go join it.

So please be so kind as to explain what "poor form" is. The only other time I have ever heard a similair phrase is in sword fighting.

Suggesting that because of my Rifts views I should go join a real life hate group. Poor form can be used in a variety of ways. In this example, it was a bad "move" to make such a statement, because it was really beyond insulting.

And as far as how you view me I truely don't care. On the one hand you critize me for saying things about you and not know you or anything about you and then toward the end of your post here you make blatant statements about me and actually are suggesting that I am delusional when you know nothing about me.

My statements are quite clear. they are the view of the game. You are delusional in thinking that my view of Rifts earth equates to real life.

As I have said before and one final time I do not read your posts often and assumed

You assume too much, and then make a big fuss of it when I get irate because you basically said I should be in the taliban? A simple "My bad" would have been enough.

incorrectly it seems that you had started talking about your personal views on the world. Since the last I basically said the same damn thing you misread it there it is for you nice and basic like. ok pumpkin.

So, in a word...you "apologized". Very big of you.

Welcome to the Boards Timber_Wolf!!!

Timber_wolf wrote:I play a Cyber Knight. As I understand it, they laid seige to Tolkeen, a town filled with many D-Bees and other psi types right? I just started playing this in RL a few months ago. From what I can tell, the Coalition shoot first, and ask questions after you're a crater.

It really depends on your GM.

Out in the wilderness, far from any reinforcements, as long as you arn't overly dbee, they may very well let a cyber-knight pass without a problem. Also it depends when, if it's after the seige on tolkeen, then they may hold a grudge.

CS generally do have a shoot first, ask questions later, but it's important to remember these guys arn't stoopid, and hopefully your GM realizes they are human, and in this way, they run a range of how they act. You could very well have one CS patrol come to your aid, as you would have one attack you for no reason other than traveling with some Dbee.

Also, they arn't as harsh on Psionics as they are with magic users and dbees. Being psionic doesn't automatically make you a target, unless your doing something to provoke them.

As I suggest to anyone new who plays rifts, I suggest that you and your group concider playing a good guy CS campaign for a bit, to get the feel of what it's like to be a CS soldier and what they are capable of.

and welcome to the boards.

Timber_wolf wrote:I play a Cyber Knight. As I understand it, they laid seige to Tolkeen, a town filled with many D-Bees and other psi types right? I just started playing this in RL a few months ago. From what I can tell, the Coalition shoot first, and ask questions after you're a crater. Both as a player and character, that don't sit right with me. Luckily I'm powerful enough to hold my own, but I aint about to go outta my way unless I'm with allies and it's the mission. I'm way into my character. heh only thing that'd really be against my character type is that he smokes and drinks. Gotta be unique somehow right?

You got the basic grasp of the Coalition's position.

Welcome to the forums and a word fo advice,

Do NOT take anything said here, no matter how much it might drive you insane, too seriously. It will only lead to downing massive amounts of painkillers from the constant headaches.

Toc Rat wrote:

Timber_wolf wrote:I play a Cyber Knight. As I understand it, they laid seige to Tolkeen, a town filled with many D-Bees and other psi types right? I just started playing this in RL a few months ago. From what I can tell, the Coalition shoot first, and ask questions after you're a crater. Both as a player and character, that don't sit right with me. Luckily I'm powerful enough to hold my own, but I aint about to go outta my way unless I'm with allies and it's the mission. I'm way into my character. heh only thing that'd really be against my character type is that he smokes and drinks. Gotta be unique somehow right?

You got the basic grasp of the Coalition's position.

Welcome to the forums and a word fo advice,

Do NOT take anything said here, no matter how much it might drive you insane, too seriously. It will only lead to downing massive amounts of painkillers from the constant headaches.

no joke

Larsen wrote:

darkbrandon wrote:

Larsen wrote:4.If prosek was actually interested in securing the human race and protecting people he would have a free soceity. I notice you completely skipped that section of my last post. Couldn't find something to say on that? Explain that one. Explain how prosek can be such a great man and at the same time not educate his people so they can lead better lives and maybe pull themselves out of the gutter that most of them live in.

I hate to say it, but I do not believe in a "free society". Now, i'm not history buff, but from what I understand many great nations before US existed were not exactly free. Alexander the great, the start of the holy roman empire, even britain were all at one time ruled with an upper and lower class? Also, from what I understand Egypt at one time was extreamly democratic as well as a few greek nations, but they all fell.

So we should just forsake freedom because it is harder to maintain than totalitarian dictatorship? Ok, whatever go join whatever the latest group is that shares the same thinking as you. Who is it this time? Oh yea the taliban. Also as someone who enjoys studying history all nations throughout time have fallen at one time or another, no matter their style of government. After time wears on the people change. The first signs of civilization collapse are breakdown of the family unit, apathy, and isolationism toward your fellow countrymen. No government can last forever.

and from my understanding the roman empire and some greek nation of old, leaders took young boys as lovers and had slaves too

Nxla666 wrote:Good point, if you have forgotten that this is a debate about a fictional government in a fictional setting please,

Step back

Take a deep breath

and focus on reality.

never never never

Ishtirru wrote:

Toc Rat wrote:

Timber_wolf wrote:I play a Cyber Knight. As I understand it, they laid seige to Tolkeen, a town filled with many D-Bees and other psi types right? I just started playing this in RL a few months ago. From what I can tell, the Coalition shoot first, and ask questions after you're a crater. Both as a player and character, that don't sit right with me. Luckily I'm powerful enough to hold my own, but I aint about to go outta my way unless I'm with allies and it's the mission. I'm way into my character. heh only thing that'd really be against my character type is that he smokes and drinks. Gotta be unique somehow right?

You got the basic grasp of the Coalition's position.

Welcome to the forums and a word fo advice,

Do NOT take anything said here, no matter how much it might drive you insane, too seriously. It will only lead to downing massive amounts of painkillers from the constant headaches.

Snap! , Im too late. Permanent brain da dama daamagge.

its spelled dain bramaged.........i'm smat...

Zebra wrote:

darkbrandon wrote:

Zebra wrote:Unfortunately for your arguements humans, d-bees, and dragons can live as equals. We see it in Lazlo, New Lazlo, New Camelot, The New Navy, Manoa, Tritonia, and countless other locations.

Can you give me examples of where humans, dbees and dragons do not live as equals on Rifts earth?

Doesn't matter. The fact that there are places where the different species can live as equals means that it can be done.

-Zebra

Well, I will conceed that it can be done.

But I will not say that it will last, and that for the majority of the time, the other end is more true, where humans and dbees and dragons can co-exist.

which brings up the question why are they in coalition controlled areaes thenunless they are plotting to harm coalition people

Mech-Viper wrote:which brings up the question why are they in coalition controlled areaes thenunless they are plotting to harm coalition people

Maybe they just wanted to get some Psi-cola, a cheeseburger and catch a movie?

Magnus wrote:Question?
There are places is the Palladium lworld where all these races exist together?

Yup, the Palladium RPG, Rifts(too include Phaseworld), even heroes unlimited has a dragon.

Magnus wrote:thanks TocRat
If it works in primatives cultures/enviroments should fail in more advanced setting?

Yes, chances are it would.

Not quite sure why? Perhaps it's the better education that makes it fall apart.

There are chances it wouldn't as well.

I think it really just depends.

Magnus wrote:So ignorance is bliss huh?
What you don't know can't hurt you. <sighs>
Perhaps Prosek is right the people don't need to know anything.
I'm going to my corner and bemoan fate of rifts humanity. Please no calls.

Maybe. Not quite sure.

dukeofshadows wrote:There are a few ways that humans can gain equality to dragons.

*Exposure to weird energies from Lemurian dimensional experiments (se Underseas)

*Mega-Juicer, Splugorth Bio-Juicer, or murder-wraith processes

*Anti-monster processes

*Gene-splicer intervention

*CS Janissary experiments (I think)

And others. As for Joe Smith being able to get equal rights in the same community, sure it can happen. But joe's kid could certainly be killed in a playground fight with little Jimmy the newly-hatched great horned dragon of the same age who was only trying to grab him by the neck.

You Forgot :

BORG Conversion in General
Ultra-Crazy from SA/SA2

Biotic (splicers) Process - Bio-technological cyborg of sorts. Almost as good as the Anti-Monster Borgs...

Bio-Borgs from Atlantis

Cosmo-Knight enhancement/empowerment

Old School (AU) Riathenor Symbiote Armor (pre-parasitic add on of AU-GG)

I find surrendering our planet to alien invaders to be more unacceptable.

"I sing out to all D-bees, mutants, aliens, demons and monsters, this is my world, and you cannot have it. My people and I will fight you to our last breath," From the Campaign of Unity speech

That excerpt is the heart of BtS. "This is our world and you can't have it" is a perfect phrase to use before destroying any of the various monsters you'll encounter in that game.

jnagyjr wrote:I don't. I find that it would be best to try and live in harmony with our guests as best as possible. It is no longer just our world anymore.

And you think that's possible? Even at least that the majority of humans will accept someone who's so different?

We can bearly tolerate other humans of different color or belief systems?

jnagyjr wrote:I don't. I find that it would be best to try and live in harmony with our guests as best as possible. It is no longer just our world anymore.

i agree they dont mess with the coalition and we willnt mist thier simple d-bee butts

jnagyjr wrote:
I don't. I find that it would be best to try and live in harmony with our guests as best as possible. It is no longer just our world anymore.


------------------
I don't recall inviting them, how about you darkbrandon, barny, mech-viper, anybody?

personally i dont invite them but i do found them rather helpful with information. i only kill the ones who are a threat to the coalition that includes coalition officers who mess up bad

Nxla666 wrote:I don't recall inviting them, how about you darkbrandon, barny, mech-viper, anybody?

Not me. I sent them hate mail.

jnagyjr wrote:I didn't ask for magic or psionics, either, but I don't see anyone advocating the killing of mages and such.

Psionics are mans defence against monsters.

Mages on the other hand, yeah, we want them dead too.

jnagyjr wrote:I didn't ask for magic or psionics, either, but I don't see anyone advocating the killing of mages and such.

i got no problem with magic weildiers as long as they are vanguard

jnagyjr wrote:

Sheesh, I'm in the room with a bunch of freakin' bigots.


-----------------------------------

I am not a bigot, though I do play one in Rifts.

jnagyjr wrote:

Nxla666 wrote:jnagyjr wrote:

Sheesh, I'm in the room with a bunch of freakin' bigots.


-----------------------------------

I am not a bigot, though I do play one in Rifts.

That's what I meant. I hope no one took offense.

well i never ...............................

Janissary wrote:

Dead Boy wrote:Though many disagree with me, I still hold to the romanticized notion that the Coalition is Humanity's last, best hope for survival.

I never did understand why anyone would say that. Selective blindness I guess. That totaly ignores the Space colonies, Moon base, New German Republic, Japan, Free Quebec(after breaking away) the New Navy and many other human nations. They all seem do be doing just fine and have been since The War and the coming of the Rifts.

So good ahead and wave their flag all you want but don't be surprised that many of us don't share your blindness.

yup space colonies and the moon people have turned their back on the humans on earth and each other for the most part.
NGR is nicer but treating the d-bees as second class people as does the city states in japan doesnt make them better then the CS i kinda of think its like the deep south around 1930-1950 "a dirty d-bee was cat calling a human woman, get the rope boys"
Free Quebec are still the same just not under the CS flag, i see Free Quebec more nasis like then the CS.
New Navy, might be a a good chance but they need to get off the fence and start gaining land and not sailing around the world on the love boat.
as for the rest, each of them has thier faults.

Janissary wrote:I never did understand why anyone would say that. Selective blindness I guess. That totaly ignores the Space colonies, Moon base, New German Republic, Japan, Free Quebec(after breaking away) the New Navy and many other human nations. They all seem do be doing just fine and have been since The War and the coming of the Rifts.

So good ahead and wave their flag all you want but don't be surprised that many of us don't share your blindness.

It's called personal preference, not selective blindness. Each of the states you mentioned have their own faults. Not a single one of them is "perfect" in any way shape or form.

darkbrandon wrote:

Janissary wrote:I never did understand why anyone would say that. Selective blindness I guess. That totaly ignores the Space colonies, Moon base, New German Republic, Japan, Free Quebec(after breaking away) the New Navy and many other human nations. They all seem do be doing just fine and have been since The War and the coming of the Rifts.

So good ahead and wave their flag all you want but don't be surprised that many of us don't share your blindness.

It's called personal preference, not selective blindness. Each of the states you mentioned have their own faults. Not a single one of them is "perfect" in any way shape or form.

I already said that in a previous post. I also in no way implied that the other human nations were perfect and without their own flaws. I simply stated the fact of the matter. That being that the Coalition States are far from the only human nation out there and that being the case are not the only way humans will continue to not only survive but thrive on Rifts Earth.

Pleae do not try to change my statement in to something it is not.

Toc Rat wrote:

darkbrandon wrote:

Janissary wrote:I never did understand why anyone would say that. Selective blindness I guess. That totaly ignores the Space colonies, Moon base, New German Republic, Japan, Free Quebec(after breaking away) the New Navy and many other human nations. They all seem do be doing just fine and have been since The War and the coming of the Rifts.

So good ahead and wave their flag all you want but don't be surprised that many of us don't share your blindness.

It's called personal preference, not selective blindness. Each of the states you mentioned have their own faults. Not a single one of them is "perfect" in any way shape or form.

I already said that in a previous post. I also in no way implied that the other human nations were perfect and without their own flaws. I simply stated the fact of the matter. That being that the Coalition States are far from the only human nation out there and that being the case are not the only way humans will continue to not only survive but thrive on Rifts Earth.

Please do not try to change my statement in to something it is not.

I was responding to Janissary.

darkbrandon wrote:
I was responding to Janissary.

Psssttt. This IS Janissary. I have to use a different login when I am using a different computer from my laptop. That's how you can tell I am away from it.

Toc Rat wrote:That being that the Coalition States are far from the only human nation out there and that being the case are not the only way humans will continue to not only survive but thrive on Rifts Earth.

IIRC, in the main book it was pretty clear that the Coalition was the last bastion of mankind.

jnagyjr wrote:

Sir Neil wrote:

Toc Rat wrote:That being that the Coalition States are far from the only human nation out there and that being the case are not the only way humans will continue to not only survive but thrive on Rifts Earth.

IIRC, in the main book it was pretty clear that the Coalition was the last bastion of mankind.

No, it was pretty clear that the Coalition wanted everyone to think they were the last bastion. It's still a bigoted view. Don't forget those on Wormwood are human, Atlanteans are/were human, etc. There are more humans out there. Not all are Terran, of course, but still. Did anyone think that we might not even be the real first intelligent inhabitants of this world? Or even native to this world?

Only when I read Phase World.

Toc Rat wrote:I already said that in a previous post. I also in no way implied that the other human nations were perfect and without their own flaws. I simply stated the fact of the matter. That being that the Coalition States are far from the only human nation out there and that being the case are not the only way humans will continue to not only survive but thrive on Rifts Earth.

Pleae do not try to change my statement in to something it is not.

You said "selective Blindness". It's just a matter of personal preference and what you take from the books.

CS is the most stable Human nation on earth. In NA it has no real enemies that can stand up to it.

NGR has gargs, and probably in a few years a bunch of brodkil's. From what I gather in Aftermath, NGR is not expecting it. This could be a very bad thing for them.

the space colonies don't give a rats ... about humans on earth.

Is CS the only human nation? No. Is CS the best preference for a world dominated by humans again? Yes.

Just like for a world that is peaceful with all Dbees. The best is probably Lazlo (from what we can gather from clips of erin tarn). But that doesn't mean it's the only option. You have Dweamer, Psy-scape, ect...

darkbrandon wrote:
NGR has gargs, and probably in a few years a bunch of brodkil's. From what I gather in Aftermath, NGR is not expecting it. This could be a very bad thing for them.
.

Exactly the opposite. In Atfermath it clearly states that the Brodkil Empire will turn on the Gargoyle empire in one year. During that time they will almost totaly destroy each other. Since 104 PA the NGR has managed to eliminate 20% of the total number of gargolyes and Brodkils in both empires while only suffering 5% in return.

I'm confused by what you mean with "NGR has gargs". I hope you do not mean to imply that gargoyles live in the NGR or some other such non-sense.

Is the CS more stable for the moment? Undeniably. Will it continue to be that way? hard to say. Is the NGR about to become more stable? Yes.

jnagyjr wrote:It's still a bigoted view.

So in your view, humans peacefully sharing a planet with the Splugorth, vampires, and the Xiticix is a realistic possibility?

What an amazing thing.

Make way!!! MAKE WAY!!!

Intelligent Design Advocate coming through!!!!

Creationists:

Atheists:

Ishtirru wrote:

cornholioprime wrote:Make way!!! MAKE WAY!!!

Intelligent Design Advocate coming through!!!!

Creationists:

Atheists:

?

To answer your Question, Ish:

There are those of us who essentially don't believe that the Universe isn't just 6000-10000 years old; at the same time, we beilieve (or perhaps "observe" is a better word) that both the Biological AND Quantum Universes show too much complexity to be self-originating; on top of all that, of course, is the "fact" that NOTHING in the Physical Universe shows signs of self-origination; that is to say, Matter does not show any capability of coming into existence from the Void.

Hence we who are called "Intelligent Design" Advocates, who are somewhat hated by both 6000 year-old Earth "Creationists" AND 'The Universe and everything in it came from void' "Atheists" (for lack of a better word; we believe that one can easily be both a Deist, say, AND an Intelligent Design Advocate at the same time without conflict; our Beliefs don't logically 'mandate' the existence of ANY God, or Gods, over the other, if one even wants to use that term)

There is a SSG in my unit who honestly believes the universe can be no older then 5000 years and is probably only 3000...

The Sovereign wrote:Intelligent design...what a misnomer. Anyway, we should get back to the topic at hand. (Yes, I say that after ridiculing your beliefs and somehow expect it to happen.)

And what "beliefs," exactly, are those???

A]] I don't believe in the literal interpretation of the beginning of the Universe that various Creation Theories put forth.

B]] At the same time, I don't believe that the various complexities in both the Physical and Quantum Unverses that can be observed by Humans (or for that matter the existence/beginning of the Universe itself) are the result of complete, random chance. Please note that such beliefs don't "force" you to accept the existence of any God, or Gods, nor does it even say whether or not these Beings/Entities/Forces are still "alive" or "interfering" in the Universe at the current time. The Philosophy simply accepts what "is" and goes from there.

Not that complicated.

And don't worry about me being offended; I'm used to it.

In the first place, I am aware that there are those Intelligent Design Advocates who try to use the "evidence" to point in the direction of "their" God or Gods; an illogical position that harms the cause, as it were.

And in the second place, it is Human Nature for people to hate most in a debate those who don't automatically take one side or the other, in my Opinion/Observation.

You should see how interesting conversations around the Dinner Table get come Election Time (I'm also an Independent Voter who tends to vote for the most "libertarian" Candidate [the ideas not the Party Label] trapped in a gaggle of Republicans and Democrats who belittle me for not belonging to a "real" Party)....

jnagyjr wrote:No, but we can share with Rahu-men, Lyn-Srial, Fennodi, etc.

Then those are people, not monsters, and I don't care if they're staying on our planet with us.

jnagyjr wrote:

Sir Neil wrote:

jnagyjr wrote:No, but we can share with Rahu-men, Lyn-Srial, Fennodi, etc.

Then those are people, not monsters, and I don't care if they're staying on our planet with us.

Perhaps, but if the CS has its way, they'd be exterminated too.

yup hang'em high or mist them

cornholioprime wrote: You should see how interesting conversations around the Dinner Table get come Election Time (I'm also an Independent Voter who tends to vote for the most "libertarian" Candidate [the ideas not the Party Label] trapped in a gaggle of Republicans and Democrats who belittle me for not belonging to a "real" Party)....

Must be like being a Democrat in the Military...

Toc Rat wrote:Exactly the opposite. In Atfermath it clearly states that the Brodkil Empire will turn on the Gargoyle empire in one year. During that time they will almost totaly destroy each other. Since 104 PA the NGR has managed to eliminate 20% of the total number of gargolyes and Brodkils in both empires while only suffering 5% in return.

I'm confused by what you mean with "NGR has gargs". I hope you do not mean to imply that gargoyles live in the NGR or some other such non-sense.

NGR is to gargs as is CS is to having no real enemies. NGR is facing gargs at the moment, in one year brodkil will turn on gargs. I don't remember exactly Rifts: Aftermath and do not have the book so I will take your word for it. Though I could have sworn it said Brodkil will take gargs by surprise, and then focus on NGR, taking them by surprise as well due to their increased numbers and use of tech from The angel of death.

Is the CS more stable for the moment? Undeniably. Will it continue to be that way? hard to say. Is the NGR about to become more stable? Yes.

That's what we're saying. CS is undeniably stable at the moment, thus, they are currently the best chance for humans to return to taking earth.

But it is by no means "Blind selectivness".