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Toc Rat wrote:

K20A2_S wrote:

Lord_Coake wrote:
Whenever I play, I got out of my way to cursh, maim, kill, destroy, dibilitate and embarass every single CS goernment-sanctioned-mass-murderer / "soldier" that I come across. My Cyber-Knight collects Dead Boy helmets. All were occupied before forced removal by way of Psi-sword.

Way to play in character.

Perhaps he just has anger management issues?

yeah sounds like it

K20A2_S wrote:

Lord_Coake wrote:
Whenever I play, I got out of my way to cursh, maim, kill, destroy, dibilitate and embarass every single CS goernment-sanctioned-mass-murderer / "soldier" that I come across. My Cyber-Knight collects Dead Boy helmets. All were occupied before forced removal by way of Psi-sword.

Way to play in character.

hey where have you been???

cornholioprime wrote:

GA wrote:Where's the No, most of the time option?

And by the way, the Coalition represents the worst qualities of American Nazi Fascism. The Navy represented in Rifts Underseas is a good example of true Americans.

And yet, for some strange, weird reason, many who call themselves CS "Supporters" don't even seem to acknowledge its (the New Navy's) existence....

The new navy exists.

Lord_Coake wrote:.....

You need to read up, MV. Not to change the subject, but the CS would first have to FIND them. And fighting them would be a losing proposition. The Ticonderoga alone could take on the entire CS Navy and FQ Navy combined.

CS Naval Officer#1: "Sir! We're being hit from below with a missile slavo!"
*ship explodes*

CS Naval Officer aboard a different ship: "Where the hell are they!?! Sonar can't see them!"
*ship explodes*

*CS Air force gets turned into a motly assortment of wreakage*

If that's how you play them. Sure. FQ navy is not full of amatures. CS navy isn't much of a navy to begin with. But I think if you threw the full brunt of FQ navy at the ticonderoga, they would give them a run for the money. Only the fact that the new navy uses pre-rifts tech would give them the win. Remember, power armor like the samas and vindicator can work underwater, and CS ships carry nukes just to deal with the new navy. On the other hand, I can recall an incedent where the new navy actually saved the CS before.

Then theres the part where a squad of CS Commandos get to go toe-to-toe with Nemo-2 and a couple other Sea Titans...
*SMACK*
*CRUNCH*
*PWN!*

CS Army meet the USMC...

Depending on what equipment and who has the element of surprise, it could easily go either way.

Anyway. As my sig shows, I loathe the CS. They're bigoted, evil, short-sighted and cowardly. Ignorance, then say, can be fixed. But stupidity is forever, and the CS fits into the latter group. Evil done in the name of good is still evil, no matter how you sugar-coat it or rationalize it as "a matter of perspective."

You don't have to like them, but don't short-change the CS. They are only stupid if you (as a gm) play them stupid. If you play them stupid, then yes, you'll only ever see the one dimention of the CS. In general, most are bigoted, I can give that. Evil? I can name a few generals who arn't evil, and I believe most of the soldiers fall under the unprincipled alignment. Short-sighted, well, in the world they live in, living day to day means just that. Soldiers jobs arn't there to plan out every step of how to make their nation better. Their there to fight and survive. Cowardly? Hardly.

Whenever I play, I got out of my way to cursh, maim, kill, destroy, dibilitate and embarass every single CS goernment-sanctioned-mass-murderer / "soldier" that I come across. My Cyber-Knight collects Dead Boy helmets. All were occupied before forced removal by way of Psi-sword.

I'm surprised the GM hasn't had given you any negitive things from such acts. After that many CS soldiers, you'd eventually have a hit put on your head. Not only would you have the CS ACTIVLY hunting you, but any merc company who believes in credits (Hell, the CS pays well).

Besides that, I think a good GM would also ply those actions. GM evil characters who have a "morality" is fun. For example, have a CS company obliterate a town because they thought you were in it. Then play on that emotion that now innocent people are dieing because of you, even if they had nothing to do with you.

you mean that horrid rifter article that appeared in issue 28?

Gomen_Nagai wrote:you mean that horrid rifter article that appeared in issue 28?

Yeah

Here's a thread that was something about them. should give you an idea on what they are

http://forums.palladium-megaverse.com/viewtopic.php?t=31163&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0

Hello, back after a very long time away and I am shocked to see this one still going, guess its a good topic.

Well as for the murderous cyber-knight, whos says his GM is any better.
I have actually managed to play in a few games and discovered that about 90% of GMs out there apparently play the CS as retarded homicidal maniacs that can barely figure out which end of the gun to point at the next batch of " poor, defenseless d-bees" that their PCs can save.

And then heap idiotic amounts of XP on them for offing a couple grunts with C-10s.

Can you tell I am a little disgusted by this.

Nxla666 wrote:Hello, back after a very long time away and I am shocked to see this one still going, guess its a good topic.

Well as for the murderous cyber-knight, whos says his GM is any better.
I have actually managed to play in a few games and discovered that about 90% of GMs out there apparently play the CS as retarded homicidal maniacs that can barely figure out which end of the gun to point at the next batch of " poor, defenseless d-bees" that their PCs can save.

And then heap idiotic amounts of XP on them for offing a couple grunts with C-10s.

Can you tell I am a little disgusted by this.

yeah i notice that too, but i think some couldn't handle Coalition played like the should be played

Mech-Viper wrote:

Nxla666 wrote:Hello, back after a very long time away and I am shocked to see this one still going, guess its a good topic.

Well as for the murderous cyber-knight, whos says his GM is any better.
I have actually managed to play in a few games and discovered that about 90% of GMs out there apparently play the CS as retarded homicidal maniacs that can barely figure out which end of the gun to point at the next batch of " poor, defenseless d-bees" that their PCs can save.

And then heap idiotic amounts of XP on them for offing a couple grunts with C-10s.

Can you tell I am a little disgusted by this.

yeah i notice that too, but i think some couldn't handle Coalition played like the should be played

that's what makes them so terrifying an enemie.

Hi there!

One of my parties started with a CS squad,
I planned to make the rogue...

Let's just say, they did not

Adios
KLM

Hi there!

Lol.

They really liked the outfit, and "understood"
that this is our planet.

Is it better?

Adios
KLM

K20A2_S wrote:

KLM wrote:Hi there!

One of my parties started with a CS squad,
I planned to make the rogue...

Let's just say, they did not

Adios
KLM

I hope you're not a writer for a living.

I believe he's from another country (hungry). He gets his point across though.

>>Nods at Dark Brandon <<

KLM wrote:>>Nods at Dark Brandon <<

since you played a game where CS soldiers didn't automatically go AWOL, you get a big too buddy.

Dark Brandon wrote:

KLM wrote:>>Nods at Dark Brandon <<

since you played a game where CS soldiers didn't automatically go AWOL, you get a big too buddy.

yeah what is up with all them CS soldiers going AWOL from DAY ONE,
you made it thru basic training and get stationed with a new unit and they go AWOL huh??? is up with that

Mech-Viper wrote:

Dark Brandon wrote:

KLM wrote:>>Nods at Dark Brandon <<

since you played a game where CS soldiers didn't automatically go AWOL, you get a big too buddy.

yeah what is up with all them CS soldiers going AWOL from DAY ONE,
you made it thru basic training and get stationed with a new unit and they go AWOL *** is up with that

Unknown. They must really want a spider-skull walker...bad.

Hi there!

Noticing the interest I made, recalled our heroes exploits:

They went throught basics training, did some patrols
in the Burbs, confiscated some NE gear (actually
CS made an exchange program - so trustworthy
mercs could change NE gear to commercial weapons,
like NG, Wilks, etc, from which the CS had some
of, usually prying it from cold dead hands), but
they did it by the letter, not making bargains
(what could have earned them some friends),
made a couple of sorties (one short strike mission
against vampires, and one longer recon patrol),
and finally they ended up on a hunter-killer patrol
in Chicago.

Basically they got from bad through worse to worst,
but they did not wanted to go AWOL (Thought lost
a squadmember or two).

The last GM's resort would have been involving them
in a cleansing, but before that I talked the guys,
and got the impression, that even that would not
shake their loyality to the CS... Probably they
blamed their commanding officer...

Anyway, I ran out of ideas, since I planned
them to go AWOL, and had a different story in mind
(to be honest, I forgot that), so we just finished
the party. Mind you, it was like 8 years ago, so
some things would be different if we would try it again.

Adios
KLM

K20A2_S wrote:What does the CS do to CS personal that goes AWOL???

You really have to ask?!?!?

Don't most Punishments in the CS basically start at "Death" and get WORSE from there???

Hi there!

Don't most Punishments in the CS basically start at "Death" and get WORSE from there???

According to CWC, nope.

Adios
KLM

KLM wrote:Hi there!

Don't most Punishments in the CS basically start at "Death" and get WORSE from there???

According to CWC, nope.

Adios
KLM

Correct.

Though, I do believe going AWOL would be death. They would hunt you down to bring you in. If you don't cause the CS too much trouble, they may end up just forgetting about you. If you do cause the CS too much trouble, they'll end up using you as a means to their ends while secretly trying to have you assassinated.

Dark Brandon wrote:

KLM wrote:Hi there!

Don't most Punishments in the CS basically start at "Death" and get WORSE from there???

According to CWC, nope.

Adios
KLM

Correct.

Though, I do believe going AWOL would be death. They would hunt you down to bring you in. If you don't cause the CS too much trouble, they may end up just forgetting about you. If you do cause the CS too much trouble, they'll end up using you as a means to their ends while secretly trying to have you assassinated.

you know i never once seen what the punishment is for going AWOL, but then again i could have missed it. but the the soldiers who normally go AWOL have done something esle that in the CS eyes warrants a death sentence

Hi there!

Dark Brandon wrote:Though, I do believe going AWOL would be death. They would hunt you down to bring you in. If you don't cause the CS too much trouble, they may end up just forgetting about you. If you do cause the CS too much trouble, they'll end up using you as a means to their ends while secretly trying to have you assassinated.

In any case, they will mark you as Enemy of Humankind,
for killing CS soldiers (where else did you got that SAMAS,
Dead Boys do not go AWOL ), and give a nice bounty
on your head.
Now, a 20.000 Cr bounty does not mean too much after
you leave CS territory behind like 100 miles or more.

Adios
KLM

Dark Brandon wrote:

KLM wrote:>>Nods at Dark Brandon <<

since you played a game where CS soldiers didn't automatically go AWOL, you get a big too buddy.

Not alone. I GM'ed a group of CS Special Forces in Lone Star for 6 RL years. They managed to work their way to 8th level in that time. The group is listed over at Nexus 9 in the 'Military Outpost' forum under '25th CS SOG'

Plus I've been in a CS PBeM game for a while now and have no thoughts of going AWOL.

Mech-Viper wrote:you know i never once seen what the punishment is for going AWOL, but then again i could have missed it. but the the soldiers who normally go AWOL have done something esle that in the CS eyes warrants a death sentence

about the only thing I can think of, unless it's in the CWC is the examples of awol dog boys, who are hunted down and executed, but if they can evade for about a week, the cs gives up on them as long as they don't do anything directly against CS and Larsen from larsen's bragade, who was also going to be hunted down and executed, but his circumstances are a little extream (A major was killed in his escape).

So, I will change my stance slightly and say that a CS soldier who goes AWOL, if he can evade for a week or so and not be caught will eventually be written off, as long as he takes no direct action against CS. If caught, I do believe a trial will happen, and he will be interrogated and then sent to prison as long as his actions were not anti-cs, and if they were, death.

I do believe going AWOL has other problems attached, such as I do believe if a soldier goes AWOL his family will have to bare his dishonor, and may come under suspicion and investigation from ISS, thusly makeing their life a living hell.

Dark Brandon wrote:
I do believe going AWOL has other problems attached, such as I do believe if a soldier goes AWOL his family will have to bare his dishonor, and may come under suspicion and investigation from ISS, thusly makeing their life a living hell.

sounds good to me

Hi there!

Yeah, the soviets deported the family of POWs
(that is if a Red Army soldier surrendered,
the comerades took his family to gulag in Siberia).

Adios
KLM

K20A2_S wrote:

KLM wrote:Hi there!

Yeah, the soviets deported the family of POWs
(that is if a Red Army soldier surrendered,
the comerades took his family to gulag in Siberia).

Adios
KLM

Soviets also killed 7+ million of their own in "industrializing" Russia. When they died from heat, work, sickness, they just threw them in the cement they were laying and kept going.

One Historian said
From a Industrialization stand point, it was the greatest thing to happen to russia b/c it put them on the map.......................at the cost of being the worst humanly possible thing to do from a humanitarian stand point.

When the Chinese governments executest you, they bill your family for the bullet.

Two places I wouldn't want to live.

Well, CS is already industrialized.

But I like the idea of the CS government billing the family for the cost of an Eclip when you are executed.

Hi there!

There is a whole lot of variations, but
the CS might want to get back the most
possible AWOLed troopers, let them
"reindoctrinated", and then state, that
they fell under posession (but purged
thanks Psi-Division), mind control or
just "went over the hill".

They have a facade to maintain: no
human in his right mind would leave
the CS. Expulsion is worse than execution.

But your family gets some unwanted
attention, just for safety's sake.

Adios
KLM

I say if a trooper goes AWOL death is to good for the deserter and traitor to humanity, put him to work (with the miscreants family, they are traitors to, except for young children for they can be "properly" indoctrinated) at hard labor for the rest of their lives.

Then again I might be a little harsh.

Hi there!

Nxla666 wrote:I say if a trooper goes AWOL death is to good for the deserter and traitor to humanity, put him to work (with the miscreants family, they are traitors to, except for young children for they can be "properly" indoctrinated) at hard labor for the rest of their lives.

Then again I might be a little harsh.

Read 1984 (if you are not the depressive kind) -
sometimes it is worth to get him back, and publicly
force him to confess...

Pure economics - and as inhumane as a human can be.

Adios
KLM

1984, man I havent read that book in like 20 years, thanks for reminding me.

As for it being worth the effort to reindoctrinate the traitor, maybe but usually its not.

kind of wierded me out when they were promoting orgies at elementery schools and stuff.


You mean that was weird, no way.







(HEAVY ON THE SARCASM)

Alejandro wrote:Still support it. Damn near the only one who does.

me too

Alejandro wrote:Still support it. Damn near the only one who does.

Nope there's a few of us around. I just don't bother with the 'is the CS good or evil' crap.

Alejandro wrote:But it's so much fun to be equated with Hitler while not holding any political office!

Nah, we just compare the policies you support to Hitlers policies. (Which is easy when you have the author of the books do that too. )


Daniel Stoker

If I am playing an evil charcter yes I support them. If I am playing a selfish character I don't really care as long as they aren't in my way. If I'm playing a good character I do not support them. Because the CS are plot device used as an obstacle for good characters. They are one of the evil empires like the splorg or the vampire kingdom or bugs.

K20A2_S wrote:

Larsen wrote: Because the CS are plot device used as an obstacle for good characters. .

So Cyber Knights like killing CS grunts with families back home???

The CS as a whole entity can by classified(not my be of course!!) as evil, but at a lower playing level it's 50/50 b/c theirs heroes and evil doers in the CS military.

Generalizing makes the game more blah.....

No because the CS is not the grunts and the commoners and the brainwashed. The CS is the government, the higher ups who know better, those that simply know and don't care. The cyber-knight has to fight the grunt with the family back home because for the most part the people who are evil are too cowardly too actually be on the front lines.

So yes the CS is a plot device for the good characters to overcome. Whether those good characters be a suddenly enlightened cs soldier who leaves to fight them in the open or stays on to try and change things from the inside. Or that good character be a rogue scholar who tries to educate the common man about the atrosities the cs has commited. Or the good guy is someone attacking the cs troops to protect his family back home because he happens to use magic to protect his family.

I said this in response to the original post and my thoughts haven't changed.

Toc Rat wrote:

Dead Boy wrote:Though many disagree with me, I still hold to the romanticized notion that the Coalition is Humanity's last, best hope for survival. And I'm not just talking about survival of the species. I'm talking about things beyond just having a pulse. Though some times twisted and distorted, other times secreted away, the CS is the last depository of a wholly Human civilization and ideals devoid of alien influences. They are all that remains of the glorious American Empire and still hold that great nation's spirit at heart. After they are gone, all that will remain will that which the supernatural monsters, demons, and so-called gods deem appropriate. Even in places that are supposedly bearers of the truth and real history, you will find what few Humans they have there subject to the rule of their unearthly "superiors"... like Lazlo for instance. They claim to be a bastion of peaceful coexistence and enlightenment, but who sits upon their throne? A dragon by the name of Plato. Coincidence? I think not.

That being said, I couldnt disagree with you more. The CS is the heart of what was once the United States? Come on now If ANY civilization that is on Rifts Earth can make a claim to that its the New Navy. At least they still fly the American Flag! They are also a D E M O C R A C Y...which, correct me if I'm wrong here, was the government of the Pre-Rifts United States? You know, the one I serve as a soldier?

Dont missunderstand me, The CS DOES do a good job of keeping many humans alive on Rifts Earth but the soul of the American empire(United States) ? please....

Alejandro wrote:

Toc Rat wrote:I said this in response to the original post and my thoughts haven't changed.

Toc Rat wrote:

Dead Boy wrote:Though many disagree with me, I still hold to the romanticized notion that the Coalition is Humanity's last, best hope for survival. And I'm not just talking about survival of the species. I'm talking about things beyond just having a pulse. Though some times twisted and distorted, other times secreted away, the CS is the last depository of a wholly Human civilization and ideals devoid of alien influences. They are all that remains of the glorious American Empire and still hold that great nation's spirit at heart. After they are gone, all that will remain will that which the supernatural monsters, demons, and so-called gods deem appropriate. Even in places that are supposedly bearers of the truth and real history, you will find what few Humans they have there subject to the rule of their unearthly "superiors"... like Lazlo for instance. They claim to be a bastion of peaceful coexistence and enlightenment, but who sits upon their throne? A dragon by the name of Plato. Coincidence? I think not.

That being said, I couldnt disagree with you more. The CS is the heart of what was once the United States? Come on now If ANY civilization that is on Rifts Earth can make a claim to that its the New Navy. At least they still fly the American Flag! They are also a D E M O C R A C Y...which, correct me if I'm wrong here, was the government of the Pre-Rifts United States? You know, the one I serve as a soldier?

Dont missunderstand me, The CS DOES do a good job of keeping many humans alive on Rifts Earth but the soul of the American empire(United States) ? please....

The problem is that the New Navy isn't a democracy. Nemo-2's been running it forever. It's a military monarchy that uses the American Flag. By that notion alone it puts it as about as anti-American as they get. This is a nation founded on the principles of freedom after all. An immortal superdude running your country is not freedom.

Nemo 2 is only the military commander. From page 108 Rifts Underseas "The society and culture is based on the Democratic Republic of the old Amercian Empire, so freedom of speech and expression, and civil liberties are strong elements of their society, especially among the civlian populace, and is evident in their attitudes, communications, entertainment, art and products."

Clearly the military answers to it's civilian population, just as the US military answers to it's civilians. Now compare that to the CS. The Emperor answers to no one. He makes all laws, decides who and when the CS goes to war with. Freedom of speech is not only discouraged, it is actively squashed and outlawed. Personal liberties, such as the right to read what you wish (or even read for that matter), to not have to register just because you are psychic and many others, simply don't exist in the Coalition.

As I said before, the Coalition States are about as far from the ideals of America as you can get in Rifts Earth. The New Navy is much, much closer.

Final
111 for the CS
70 against the CS
72 who dont care


This is coalition country

Lord_Coake wrote:Repost the poll, and we'll see, MV.

And that 111 is maybe a few people who actually like the CS, and the rest are probably bandwagoners that jumped on after SoT.

Just wait 'till the CS gets it's teeth kicked in. It'll happen.

the poll stands CS rule! you drool! d-bee lover!!

Xan-00 wrote:

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:Final
111 for the CS
70 against the CS
72 who dont care


This is coalition country

Maybe I'm not reading the same poll as you. Because mine says 38 for pro, 74 for them to ensure human race survives, 70 no and 72 try to stay away.

Oh I see you added your two yes's and not the other two no's. Oh, thats cute. Well lets re add the correct way.

final
112 yes like cs.
142 no don't like cs.

this is the land of freedom and not human cattle.

welcome to CS country. dont trying to place the cowards in the haters ranks

Xan-00 wrote:

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:Final
111 for the CS
70 against the CS
72 who dont care


This is coalition country

Maybe I'm not reading the same poll as you. Because mine says 38 for pro, 74 for them to ensure human race survives, 70 no and 72 try to stay away.

Oh I see you added your two yes's and not the other two no's. Oh, thats cute. Well lets re add the correct way.

final
112 yes like cs.
142 no don't like cs.

this is the land of freedom and not human cattle.

It isn't "Do you like the CS" it's, Do you support them.

70 no, they do not support them in any way.
111 support them one way or another.
73 don't care.

What's that old addage? If you stand by and watch something bad happen, you're just as bad as the people doing it...so in essence...

70 do not suppor them
and 184 do support them...one way or another.

dark brandon wrote:It isn't "Do you like the CS" it's, Do you support them.
What's that old addage? If you stand by and watch something bad happen, you're just as bad as the people doing it...so in essence...

So you are saying the Coalition IS, in fact a bad thing?

barneyjb wrote:It really depends on how you look at D-Bees in general. It's unfortunate for the d-bees but I wouldnt let a bunch of rats or ants live in my house. If I killed them all I wouldn't be sad, they were invaders who aren't equal to humans in nature or value.

D-bee lovers are kinda like PETA, they get all sad and misty if you kill a few Pandas. Not cause Pandas are some great thing or they even believe that pandas are equal to humans but because pandas are so cute and cuddly and lovable. And they have such human looking eyes and those great cuddly paws aaawwwwww... So they ascribe the human virtue of "Innocence" on the pandas making it so sad that they are being killed, in their words SLAUGHTERED.

But in the end, if you have a panda infestation and the pandas start picking up ion blasters, getting in glitterboys, or worse yet start throwing fireballs it's time to put some pandas down... put them down hard and fast and with severe prejudice.

Damn Pandas...

Die they must die, the pandas must die. Die they must die, the pandas must die!

Barney

I'm Nxla666 and I support this message.

Toc Rat wrote:

dark brandon wrote:It isn't "Do you like the CS" it's, Do you support them.
What's that old addage? If you stand by and watch something bad happen, you're just as bad as the people doing it...so in essence...

So you are saying the Coalition IS, in fact a bad thing?

It's simply perception. I think they are good.

So, in my mind people who stand by and let the CS continue to do their thing are not in any ways hindering the CS, thus they support them.

In other minds people who think the CS are are bad thing see people just standing by and letting the CS do their thing are in no way stopping them or hindering them so, they must support them.

The worst sin isn't the acts of evil men, It's the indifference and inactivity of good men...

Oh and i still support The CS..
Yea humanity!!!

Dead Boy wrote:Though many disagree with me, I still hold to the romanticized notion that the Coalition is Humanity's last, best hope for survival. And I'm not just talking about survival of the species. I'm talking about things beyond just having a pulse. Though some times twisted and distorted, other times secreted away, the CS is the last depository of a wholly Human civilization and ideals devoid of alien influences. They are all that remains of the glorious American Empire and still hold that great nation's spirit at heart. After they are gone, all that will remain will that which the supernatural monsters, demons, and so-called gods deem appropriate. Even in places that are supposedly bearers of the truth and real history, you will find what few Humans they have there subject to the rule of their unearthly "superiors"... like Lazlo for instance. They claim to be a bastion of peaceful coexistence and enlightenment, but who sits upon their throne? A dragon by the name of Plato. Coincidence? I think not.

All hail the Emperor!!!

Thought for the Day:
Suffer not the alien to live!

EPIC wrote:*scratches head*

i have been on these boards for a long while now, maybe not as long as others, but i seem to remember a day when the CS were typically viewed as the bad guys that everyone loved to hate.

i wonder when it was that opinions changed from CS is bad to the CS is doing the right thing [considering the circumstances]?

Pretty much rom the start, we we're all just parked on the 40k website

Cleanse, Purge, kill the Alien!