Forums of the Megaverse®

ShadowLogan wrote:

nathan wrote:Other than the Kraken I don't believe any of them are Power Armor for these reasons;
1) the heads, arms, and legs are clearly robotic. There's is no way to get a human limb through the joints.
2) the size to be a PA suit is way wrong. At most they should add a foor the the weigher's hight. There is no way a 6ft person can wear a 10ft suit of armor.

Well I think they are classified as PA because of the way PB classifies Power Armor, which is by Height (see Rifts Glitterboy fluff text). Who says that the operator's limbs have to be in the limb in part or full...

It might be better to think of the over sized PA more like human scale Battlepods (really the TBP is not even twice the height of its usual Zentraedi giant-size operators). By PB's definition of human scale PA, if we apply it to races of different heights, then any robot vehicle no more than x2 (or there about) the height of its intended user with a single operator qualifies as PA.

It seems to be a combination of size & control methods. The Glitter Boy in Rifts is 11ft tall, but because the pilot's arms & legs take up at least part of the legs & arms of the suit it's considered a PA (i.e. not joystick controlled). In contrast, Triax's X-535 Hunter/Jager is about the same height, & the pilot's legs actually fit down into the vehicle's legs (making pilot endurance a factor); however, the arms & weapons are controlled by twin control sticks... so it's classified as a "robot vehicle".

Okay guys guess what i was reviewing my all the New RPG books agian, and it seems i made a mistake when i said the Southren Cross EU-12 should be re-named the EU-14 to keep it from being confused with the EU-12 of the Condor in Shadow Chronicles. Low and behold i forgot that in Shadow Chronicles they called the pulse beam cannons on the BETA fighter EU-14's, but then agian this is an obvious mistake as those cannons are the same type as those on the Alpha which are EU-13's. So this is really a Typo on the writers part so the rename to EU-14 could still stand, if not i guess it should be called the EU-9 instead.

I forgot to let you all know that the Sedution skill has a bonus of +1 for every one point above a MA:20 and +1 for for every two points above a PB:17.

The Triton is missing its head mounted Ion cannons and the HIR-44 Pulse ION Carbine.

The M-37 weasel pistol and the M-25 Wolverine assault rifle to clearify the damage NIT: for a single SDC round in Shadow is 4D6 vs. 5D6 in Southren for the weasel. The wolverine does 4D6 MD in Shadow vs. 5D6 MD for a single MD round in Southren.
weasel reliability/jamming issues in sandy dry conditions in Southren vs. None in Shadow (doesn't even list jamming penalities except for under the entry for the Euraya Pistol. Did i get the name right?)
Balance penalty for the weasel in Southren vs. none in Shadow.
This is weird the Ferret has heavy Recoil but yet is pefectly balanced and has pluses intstead of penalties.

For those who don't believe that the Centaur is only a semi/pseudo-veritech check out how a Veritech is Defined on pg. 141 of The Art of The Shadow Chronicles. Roughly it states that a Veritech has Two modes sometimes Three. A veritech has a vehicle mode and typically a Battloid mode (humanoid form), sometimes there is an intremitant mode know as guardian or gladiator mode. So the Centaur would be the Exception not the Rule if considered as a Full veritech mecha.

Also to help settle the Is it Power Armor vs. Robot Mecha/Battloid issue, Palladium Books defines Power Armor in short as thus:
A robotic exo-skeleton that adds one to three feet in height to the user. Older models can be as tall as twelve feet and are more robotic looking (ie. Southren Cross Porwed Armor vs. New Generation/Sentinal/Shadow Chronicles Cyclones). Zentradi Powered Armor is an exception because it is Taylored to the massive scale of their giant size bodies. Check out the Rifts: Masters Guide pg. 203 on how Power Armor is defined if you have it. Also Harmony Gold approved it so it must be so, like it or not, and if not GMs should just house rule what you feel is right.

A note to the Writers,proof readers,and editors at Palladium: Not to say any of us fans can do much better,we probablly can't; but please be more careful in consistancy and continuity. Sometimes things tend to vary from page to page in a single book, let alone between books. It would save GM's and you as publishers a lot of Headaches. Also your company has been around for a while now,one would think such issues would no longer happen as much as they do. But then agian what would we have to dicuss in this forum if everything was perfect.

I forgot to say on the issue of Powered Armor that Palladium Books also Defines anything over Twelve Feet tall to be considered a Robot Vehicle(ie.Read as meaning a Battloid/Destroid). Agian see pg.203 Rifts: Game Masters Guide.

I'm back ....agian. forgot to clarfiy ththat SC batlle armor redues Laser damage by only one quater(25%) my previous most may have made it seem otherwise. Mecha/Vehcile laser damage is reduced by one half(50%).

Various OCC/MOS skill listing list "Pilot: ASC Power Armor", no skill is listed though in the book or TSC (for power armor). Is this style of piloting included in the Pilot Battloid skills (as in Rifts where PA and 'bots use the same skill) or is a seperate skill?

I noticed that some of the mecha have bonuses to parry and descriptions of parrying from there arm shields but could not find any where that mentions if the mecha/body armour that have shields can parry projectile/energy blasts.

Pg 184 The wolverine has damage listed for the optional grenade launcher but no rang listed.

Pg 30 the "fast as lighting" attribute bundle under the quick roll rules has Alpha Tactical Space Armoured listed as one of the best OOC's. It lists the TASC before that but it sounds like a combo of TASC and ATAC. It sounds like it was suppost o be ATAC

Chris0013 wrote:This is cross book errata for the damage of the .50 Caliber round....

Macross Pg 133. entry for M3A2M SLAP does 2D6 for a single round.

Masters Pg 126-127. M35 Kodiak SLAP does 1D8 for a single round.

Palladium should have set up SDC / MDC for the conventional / SLAP ammo and been consistent.

They also have different ranges listed. In maccross it's 5000 ft in Masters it's 4000 feet. Perhaps the difference in damage and range can be attributed to a difference in the size of shell casings and or composition of the powder between the two .50 cal rounds.

The Weasel Pistol and the Wolvine Assult Rifle have different damage listings of 5D6 instead of 4D6 as in Shadow Chronicles (maybe the Southern cross uses a heavier Ammo Round?

Both of the books I have list the SDC damadge of the "Wolverine" as 4D6 for a single round. I'm not sure what book lists it as 5D6. However the "Wolverine" in the master is a M-25 and the "Wolverine" in SC is a M-55. The are both different calibers, different stats etc. The SC version is probably a newer model design and that would probably account for any difference in damage.

maybe the Southern cross uses a heavier Ammo Round?

That would make sense and seems plausable.

Scorpion Leader wrote:Okay guys guess what i was reviewing my all the New RPG books agian, and it seems i made a mistake when i said the Southren Cross EU-12 should be re-named the EU-14 to keep it from being confused with the EU-12 of the Condor in Shadow Chronicles. Low and behold i forgot that in Shadow Chronicles they called the pulse beam cannons on the BETA fighter EU-14's, but then agian this is an obvious mistake as those cannons are the same type as those on the Alpha which are EU-13's. So this is really a Typo on the writers part so the rename to EU-14 could still stand, if not i guess it should be called the EU-9 instead.

I don't see it as a typo or a mistake, just an example of the same nomenclature being used for different pieces of equipment used by different branches.

And frankly, given the following examples from the real world, I'm surprised it didn't happen more often:

-- WW2: M1 Garand rifle, M1 bayonet (for use on the M1 Garand), M1 helmet, M1 203mm howitzer (later renamed M115), M1 carbine, M1 120mm AA gun, M1 mortar, M1 Combat Car/LightTank, M1 chemical mine, & M1 Thompson SMG (derived from M1928); designation later used for the M1 Abrams, which shared service with the M1 helmet
-- WW2: M2 Browning HMG (ground & aircraft versions), M2 Browning GPMG (aircraft version of .30cal M1919), M2 carbine (M1 carbine with selective-fire control), M2 20mm aircraft cannon (based on Hispano-Suiza HS.404), M2 ball ammo (armor-piercing .30-06 cartridge), M2 Half-track, M2 105mm howitzer (later renamed the M101), M2 light tank (predecessor of the M3 Stuart), M2 medium tank (predecessor of the M3 Lee & M4 Sherman), M2 flamethrower, & M2 antipersonnel "bounding" landmine; note that the M2 HMG was still in service later when the M2 Bradley IFV & M2/M3/M4 SLAM mines were developed & introduced
-- WW2: M3 37mm anti-tank gun, M3 105mm light howitzer, M3 20mm aircraft cannon (derived from US M2 & UK Hispano Mk. V, both derived from HS.404), M3 Half-track, M3 Stuart light tank, M3 Lee medium tank, M3 carbine (M2 with infra-red sniper scope from M1), M3 "Grease Gun" SMG, M3 Scout Car, M3 Grant (derivative of M3 Lee), & M3 90mm AA gun; the designation was later used for the M3 Bradley CFV (derived from the M2)
-- WW2: M4 artillery tractor (derived from M2 light tank), M4 Sherman medium tank, M4 survival rifle; later used for the XM4 command vehicle (derived from M2 Bradley IFV) & M4 carbine (derived from M16).
-- Cold War: M14 rifle (derived from M1 Garand), M14 landmine

And that doesn't count the sub-variant designs whose designations overlap with both contemporary and later designs (i.e. M6 bayonet for the M14 rifle & the M6 Bradley Linebacker).

So, I see no problem with the ASC having an EU-12 gun pod, while the UEEF has a completely different gun pod with the same EU-12 designation.

Technophobe -checkout my most recent post about the Wolverine damage issue. The 5D6 is for the MD armor piercing rounds in Southren Cross but in Shadow Chronicles its listed as 4D6. The Weasel Pistol is opposite The 5D6 is for the SDC rounds in Southren and 4D6 in Shadow. also notice that in Shadow the MD rounds for both the Weasel and Wolverine are listed as HEAP rounds but in Southren their listed as LEAP rounds.

The Tri-Star the mistake with the cannons is with the LRC-220 220mm Rail Guns not the Quad Laser Cannons for range.
The range in an Atmosphere is listed as being 10 miles (1.6km) it should read 10 miles (16km) an obveious typo.

The Reinforced Pilots Compartment for the VHT-1A2/A3 is listed as being 150 MDC total, but under the entry for OMS-2 Hover Tank Thruster Pack its split and listed as Canopy 50 MDC Reinforced Pilots Compartment 100 MDC.

Missing - Trylonic Memory Probe and how to deal with NPC/Player Characters subgetted to the probe. (the old Southren Cross Book did Touch upon this under the Entry for 2nd Stage clones) I have Some ideas however on how to handle this that i'm formulating. Episodes: Metal Fire & Stardust (the episode after Metal Fire/right?)

Missing - Southren Cross Proton Disposal Beam. Episode: Stardust(the one after Metal Fire/right?)

Missing - Anti-Pain Syrum (Masters: Chemical Enhancment/ kinda like a juicer in Rifts) Episode: The Invid Connection
I'd say treat as if effected by both the effects of the Songs of Courage and War combined but also add +2 to strength.
Also note the Master only used this as Last Resort becuase of no longer having the Tirolian Muses to Control the Clone population with their songs and music. GM's Don't Abuse this. Don't combine the effects of the Anti-Pain Syrum with the effects of the Songs of War and Courage(already included) It would unbalance game play and is not fair to the Players to do so. Only use as a last Resort as stated when there has been a loss of control over the clones by the Robotech Masters.

Missing - Clone rehabilitation Centers

Okay if the Centaur is a full Veritech, what of Civilian/Recon Guardian Mode Plane seen in one of the Art of Robotech Books and the Scramble News Network Plane in Macross II the Movie. I don't think those can be considred full a veritech, they are only semi-variable, just because they can change to a Guardian Confiuration doesn't make them a veritech, just like the Centaur. To tell the truth i like to think of the Centaur is a full true Veritech too, but it just does not in my opinon fit the true defined descriptions i've seen and Film Footage of what a True Full Veritech is. So it could only fall as being semi-variable/prototype mecha, being able to pop-up from behind cover or get a better firing angle/advantage point.
Can we Get Tommy Yune to Rule on It!!! Even though its not considred an Offical Robotech Mecha as of yet.

If you check under the Skill descriptions, i think you'll find that the pilot ASC powered armor is Part of the Pilot ASC battloid skill.

Green.nova in terms of the game and Namoculture used in the game, i believe the two diffrent EU-12's is a mistake. Also you might find Palladium would maybe say so or that it came about by conflicting forms of info. seeing they have various resources they tap on the subject of Robotech. I also realize how confusing the Real world Namoculture is in the Military, i'm a miltary Brat after all!! But this is Fanatasy not reality, its just a fun game and not a military simulation.

No offence intended.

Just remember its just a fun game that sometimes yes even I and other fans of Robotech or even Star Trek (i admit i'm A trekkie. I Can't wait to see the new movie and i'm a little worried about what JJ abrams take on Trek wiil be like), Star Wars(boy did Lucas mess up with the prequels or what!!), Battlestar Galatica, Buck Rogers, ect.-etc. sometimes take al ittle to far and seriously and nit-pick about everything. But Remember to keep it fun.

My final word about the Centaur:
One has to remember that the Veritech is born from 1980's anime and the transforming robot cartoon/toy craze.
So that being said to be a veritech/transforming robot mecha, you have to have a vehicle mode and a humanoid form, with humanoid locomotion, and humanoid hand to hand combat abilites.(be it a Valkyrie,Sparta Hover tank, Ajax,Logan, A+lpha or Beta fighter,Autobot,Descepticon,Voltron,Transforming type Gundam, Dai Guard, etc. and this has continued to be the trend from then all the way up to today, even with the Power Rangers and their Megazord.) Clearly the Centaur although from an 80's comic book does not fit this description and therfore cannot be considered a true veritech/transforming robot.

Scorpion Leader out.

Where's the ASC characters that we all love?? Where's Dana, Bowie and the other members of the 15th?

Signed,
Rathorc Lemenger.

Rathorc Lemenger wrote:Where's the ASC characters that we all love?? Where's Dana, Bowie and the other members of the 15th?

There not there, answered many a times. Move along...

Khyron wrote:No it was not...in the show however It is in the comic series and novel series which was approved by Harmony Gold and widely accepted by the fan base for more then how many years?....This In turn makes it cannon...so there we go ...

To further clarify this little bit of info...what was taken form a reliable source about the novels

The original twelve novels were written to a tight twelve-month deadline, so that the books could be released one per month. Under this deadline. As part of the research project, James Luceno and the late Brian Daley (aka Jack McKinney) watched the TV series many times, and consulted heavily with Carl Macek.

So Basically... Carl Macek was even envolved with the making of the novel series which in turn makes it Cannon

Taaaaddaaaaaa


Cased Closed

That's like saying that, because Roddenberry & Paramount (& later, his estate) "approved" all of the "official" novels that expand on the various Star Trek series, that the novels are "canon".

Except, oh wait, that's right: they're not. They're not required to follow canon to the letter, & they're certainly not required to follow what's come in a prior novel. Take The IDIC Epidemic. Despite the obvious difference in makeup used between the original series & the later movies/series, official canon only lists one "species" of Klingons. Yet the cure for a deadly disease that not only crosses species, but specifically mutates within "fusions" or "half-breeds" is found within the blood antibodies of a Klingon engineer & his half-Klingon sons... because they're "regular" (i.e. non-'turtlehead') Klingons, as opposed to "Imperial" (i.e. 'turtlehead') Klingons. Oh, & not to overlook that the other source of the cure comes from Romulans...even though Romulans are just Vulcans that left their homeworld thousands of years ago (& therefore should be closer genetically speaking than regular humans and Neanderthals).

So just because the Robotech novels mention a Centaur "hovertank" doesn't make it part of the official canon. Especially since those are the "filler" novels that partially bridge the gap between generations. Heck, even the novel adaptations for the series itself list scenes that were never part of the show -- i.e. T.R. Edwards being left in Alaska Base by Rick & Lisa, or the ASC's remaining VF-1s being shot down by the Masters.

And even if Carl Macek was involved in the project... so what? He was also involved in the Clash of the Bionoids, which was supposed to convert Megazone 23 into a part of the Robotech Saga. Except that even before HG took over from Macek, it was never acknowledged as being part of official canon.

The owner of the copyright -- in this case, HG -- has the right & privilege to designate what's official canon or not. And unless the creator is still the copyright holder, they can say what they wanted to have canon, or what they planned to add to the project, but they don't get to say what is & isn't canon.

So, no Centaurs ever seen in the TV episodes means that, unless HG designates the novels/comics it appears in as official canon, they are not official.

I'm not basing the Centaur on toys but on actual film footage(ie. Anime/cartoons) of other mecha,defined terms in books,The General excepted Anime Term of Transforming Mecha as it has been born and evolved from the 80's, and produton art/model sheets. Not the Toys themselves, but what can be seen(and Read)by comparison.

What many of you think as cannon like it or not is no longer considered cannon by the powers that be (which is not me by the way,but Harmony Gold).

Also check out the old Robotech RPG source book #8 Strike Force Tornado combat bike, Agressor VTOL,Guardian VTOL, for other mecha you think would be considered a veritech but aren't. Also see the Art of Robotech(forgot which # book though)and The Robotech Protoculture Collection extra Disk # 3 for the VTOL(Guardian Mode)Jet that also can not be considered a Veritech.

Green.Nova I would like to at least agree with you on some point of military realism that should be presented in the game so here me out.

Would you say that my previous post about the MOS Medical Officer in Shadow and the Feild Medic MOS in Southern, that my accessment is correct and Palladium should maybe have Presented those MOS' how they did in the past. Meaning instead of every tom, dick, and harry starting with the MD skill they should of stuck to the Old Base skill of First Aid or Paramedic and then be able to UPGRADE that skill To MD at the cost of ONE or Two OCC Related Skills, plus any required skills to take MD.
(I guess that nurse Sean hit on while visiting Marie Crystal in the base hospital was a MD Too.)

Would you also say that in Macross the EC-33B Tigers Eye and The VC-33 Mom's Kitchen is Military Namoculture ERROR.
That if they are Both a C-33 type aircraft they should be of the same Airframe/Body Type. Which They are not.
That an additional pre-fix letter (ie: AC-130,MC-130,EC-130) in front indicates a special role (ie.AC-130 Specter Gunship)and not a diffrent airframe. That as presented in Macross a V-22 Osprey would be the Same as a C-130 which its not.

Does this sound correct to you?

Other Nits:

Weasel Ammo capacity in Shadow is 15 rds. in Southren its 18rds.

For those that don't know and have not been in the Shadow Chronicles Forum or Have the Deluxe addition of Shadow Chronicles the Wolverine in The Manga size Addition is Wrong its not the M-55 and its stats/art work and that of the Hound Pistol Totally wrong and were updated/corrected and Replaced in the Deluxe Addition. Also Southren Cross takes Place before Shadow Chronicles, so its the same weapon and not a different weapon with the same name or a advanced version of the same weapon. (the Wolverine was even in the old books but of course presented diffrent from what it is now. In fact the Art work for it in the Maga Size addition of Shadow chronicles is a hold over from the Robotech RPG old books)

The Forest MOS says they can be parachuted in but the skill is not listed in the List of MOS skills for that MOS or Presented in Skill Descriptions in any of the books. I Have Rifts so the next time i'm on i'll try to present it for those of you who would like it. I can't remeber The precentages right now off hand,as i'm currently using the Library Terminal, becuase my PC is down.

Also as with Rifts and the Palladium Megaversal system in general Pilot ASC Power Armor is part of the Pilot ASC Battloid skill.
In Rifts the skill is called Pilot Robots and Power Armor, and states that they are both essentially piloted in basicly the same manner so no seperate skill is necessary.

Kyron sorry to upset you and not to beat a dead horse becuase after this i don't want to visit the Centaur issue anymore ethier BUT:

From the: The Art of The Shadow Chronicles by: Tommy Yune of Harmony Gold

Pg:141-Veritech: An Acronym of Veriable Engineering and Robotic Intergration TECHnology. It is a classification of combat mecha that indicates the ability to transform into at least 2 distinct configurations. One of the configurations is typically a humanoid form called Battloid mode, and the other is one of several types of vehicles. Most veritech fighters have an intermediate configuration know as Guardian or Gladiator mode.Veritechs can can include many different types of vechicles ranging from areospace fighter to motorcycle.

Pg.140-Battloid Mode: The robotic bipedal configuration of a transformable veritech mecha to facilitate more manuverable combat agianst aliens or enemy mecha.

Pg.140-Battloid: Any bipedal Humanoid Mecha.

From the Random House College Dictionary:

Biped: 2.Having two feet.
Bipedal: Adj. biped.
Humanoid: Having human characteristics or form.

Therefore the Centaur Is Not A Veritech as Defined.
Why?
1.) Does Not have A true Humanoid Biped Form
2.) Only has a Guardian Form with Concave Bird like ostrich legs.(Even the Logan has straight Human like legs)
3.) Does not have true Humanoid Bipedal locomotion; it does not walk,run,Jump.
4.) It only hovers around even in Guardian mode.
5.) It has every limited Hand toHand ability/it cannot engage in true human like hand to hand combat; it can't really punch. (It would get Walloped if it Tried!!)
6.) No true human like Arms & Legs or body.

So to believe The Centaur is a True Veritech is to Believe the Earth is Flat when all evidence points to the fact that it is Round. All this is a mute point anyway and just a bunch of Feldercarb until Harmony Gold can gain the rigths to the Art and decides to Let the Centaur be included Offically in the RPG. (which right now does not seem likely to happen)

Oh yeah i like Battlestar, but i'm still somewhat partcial to the cheezee original.(But not battlestar 1980)
I miss Derk Benidick as Star Buck.

Thanks Jeffar!

Back in business! Hrmm...need to set about merging all the gaffes we've collected since the book was initially published.

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=140414

its been mentioned before, but need to be brought up until it can get fixxed.
the Myrmidon's battilod mode doesn't match its transport and tank modes...

Any chance this is gonna get reprinted to proper 8.5x11 size soon? It's the only one I don't own as I don't care for the small size versions.

MilkManX wrote:Any chance this is gonna get reprinted to proper 8.5x11 size soon? It's the only one I don't own as I don't care for the small size versions.

When it goes into the second printing, then they will strip Marker's name off the press releases

Which probably means Never.

: pokes thread :

Okay,

someone else mentioned it before on another thread, and I would like to put in vote for it, but when Palladium gets around to re-sizing The Masters War sourcebook it should be made into a softcover Deluxe edition. So much material needs and should be added that, including numerous vehicles, mecha and starships as well as writeups for the characters of the 2nd Robotech War (including Dana and crew, Supreme Commander Leonard, General Emerson and The Robotech Masters themselves). This should increase the page count, of course. But it would also be a great place to add new information (such as Monument City and its environs) as well as a Hook, Line and Sinker section for GMs to make adventures.

The Art for the myrmidon shows a battiloid that dosen't match the other 2 modes of the mecha in question, Via some help I found the Art that matches the Tank/Transport mode.
This is the Current designs and art in the Master's Saga source book

This is theArt that matches the Transport mode and Tank mode....
Here's all 3 of them together...

Courtesy of YuiYuasa, here is some more lineart that could be used to update the RPG, including the EU-10 and a better view of the Ferret pistol.

Animec September '84

Colonel Wolfe wrote:The Art for the myrmidon shows a battiloid that dosen't match the other 2 modes of the mecha in question, Via some help I found the Art that matches the Tank/Transport mode.
This is the Current designs and art in the Master's Saga source book

This is theArt that matches the Transport mode and Tank mode....
Here's all 3 of them together...

Considering this from the 6/24 weekly update: UPDATE: Robotech® The Masters Saga™ to be released in 8½ x 11 format

Suddenly, there are only two dozen copies of Robotech® The Masters Saga in manga format left in the warehouse. That means it is time to re-release the fan-fave sourcebook in the larger 8½ x 11 format. With the amount of artwork and design elements we’d like to put into Robotech® The Masters Saga, we think the 8½ x 11 conversion will top out at 160 pages; $20.95 retail. An August release.

Maybe its time for Palladium to Fix the art for the Myrmidon.

1. Pg. 54 Under the forest division it mentions a Firbolg mecha, change this to Dryad.
2. Pg. 55 It mentions a Naga mecha in the marsh division, change this to Triton.
3. Pg. 59 mentions the Minotaur mecha, change this to Unicorn.
4. Pg. 138 The last paragragh in the Triton mecha description talks about a short range ion mounted in the head and a weapon called the HIR-44 Pulse Ion Carbine, neither of which has stats.
5. Pg. 246 The Bioroid Terminator power armor mentions a camouflage ability, but no rules are presented.
6. Pg. 248 The Tr-LLR Mk.1 rifle describes a 4 shot grenade launcher, but no stats are given.

Rules could also be included for the anti-pain serum given to the Masters legionary conscripts in episode 59, and the Hover platforms and vehicles we see used by the Masters internal security forces inside the motherships. Also, add the Triumviroid Attack Drone.

Some pictures and links of the Masters vehicles:

http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/Wrait ... y/Robotech

http://www.robotechresearch.com/

http://robotechvisions.wikia.com/

Sorry for the thead necro but I can't seem to find the experince tables in the book. Anyone got a page number?

Why do they saying TC Cold, Desert, Forest, March & Mountain are Special Forces, there are military units train in evironments & they are not Special Forces. The Alaskan National Guard is train in the cold weather but its not Special Forces & there soldiers don t need a IQ of 14/
IQ 140 RW or higher.

Southern Cross has no Navy Units so its open season on shipping.

Drakenred®™© wrote:ok a bit of a nit

The EP 20 and EU-11 gunpod bascialy do the same damage at the same range

The EP 20 has a 60 round payload
The EU-11 has a 28 round payload
...

Is that some new stated because I go by the RPG, both with effectively unlimited (1000+) and the EU-11 has 50% longer range (6000ft Vs 4000ft)

But that's the source I use. In-universe terms: you can consider the differences as different universes.

gmg4rwf wrote:

Drakenred®™© wrote:ok a bit of a nit

The EP 20 and EU-11 gunpod bascialy do the same damage at the same range

The EP 20 has a 60 round payload
The EU-11 has a 28 round payload
...

Is that some new stated because I go by the RPG, both with effectively unlimited (1000+) and the EU-11 has 50% longer range (6000ft Vs 4000ft)

But that's the source I use. In-universe terms: you can consider the differences as different universes.

Yes, the 2nd Edition made some changes. Part of it can be argued that they have the development timeline of the EU-11 being earlier than the EU-20...but then there are also issues with the stats when compared to the EU-13 for the Alpha Fighter. haHA!

tobefrnk wrote:

gmg4rwf wrote:... I go by the RPG, both with effectively unlimited (1000+) and the EU-11 has 50% longer range (6000ft Vs 4000ft)

But that's the source I use. In-universe terms: you can consider the differences as different universes.

Yes, the 2nd Edition made some changes. Part of it can be argued that they have the development timeline of the EU-11 being earlier than the EU-20...but then there are also issues with the stats when compared to the EU-13 for the Alpha Fighter. haHA!

I haven't seen any of those. RPG4 it's actually the E-20 no "U". I think it differentiates 1 hand Vs 2. The EU-13 was a later development of the REF I believe. Not sure but I think it had to do with the secretly-fed Shadow tech, helped the humans kill more Invid, before being taken out.

You might to update your knowledge as it seems you are working off the original Robotech RPG which has been completely superceded by the 2nd edition of the RPG. The original was utterly rife with errors in every book for pretty much everything. The 2nd edition fixed the majority of the errors but there are still plenty but now it's due to lack of information rather than not bothering to really research the information.

jaymz wrote:You might to update your knowledge as it seems you are working off the original Robotech RPG which has been completely superceded by the 2nd edition of the RPG. The original was utterly rife with errors in every book for pretty much everything. The 2nd edition fixed the majority of the errors but there are still plenty but now it's due to lack of information rather than not bothering to really research the information.

I never saw any "2nd edition" for Robotech, and Palladium doesn't even have a place on their site for them, so it is what it is.

That tells me you haven't been even paying attention for the last 15+ years.

It's not in the store because they no longer have the license, again.

If you cant be bothered to do a simple google search to confirm it then that's a you problem not a forum problem but you arguing from superceded incorrect information still makes your position untenable.

It's tantamount to arguing that dnd armour works like ABC but you not owning a core book since 2nd ed adnd while the discussions are about 5th ed dnd and claiming you can't find 5th ed stuff to prove it exists.

gmg4rwf wrote:

jaymz wrote:You might to update your knowledge as it seems you are working off the original Robotech RPG which has been completely superceded by the 2nd edition of the RPG. The original was utterly rife with errors in every book for pretty much everything. The 2nd edition fixed the majority of the errors but there are still plenty but now it's due to lack of information rather than not bothering to really research the information.

I never saw any "2nd edition" for Robotech, and Palladium doesn't even have a place on their site for them, so it is what it is.

"2nd Edition" Robotech might be a fan designation I don't think PB/HG actually used that term (could be wrong here so don't quote me on this). The 2E Books came out starting around 2008 and only within the past few years did PB lose the license for the 2nd time. While you won't find any 2E (or 1E for that matter) Robotech Books in the Palladium store, you should be able to find them easily enough on that big online retailer we probably can't mention by name.

Robotech: The Masters Saga is an actual title form the 2E book line (basically covering the 2RW, much like Book 4 in 1E: Armies of the Southern Cross"). The 2E Books do not use numbering like in 1E and include game mechanical changes (to values) along with matching what is depicted more closely (ex. in 1E VR-052 have the shoulder Mini missile launchers, those do not actually exist and where removed from in 2E) though not in all cases.

the official name of the "2nd edition" robotech RPG is "Robotech: The Shadow Chronicles RPG"
it is comprised of;
Robotech The Shadow Chronicles Role Playing Game (mainbook)
Robotech The Shadow Chronicles Role Playing Game Deluxe Edition (Hardback)
Robotech The Shadow Chronicles Role Playing Game Macross Saga Sourcebook
Robotech The Shadow Chronicles Role Playing Game Masters Saga Sourcebook
Robotech The Shadow Chronicles Role Playing Game New Generation Saga Sourcebook
Robotech The Shadow Chronicles Role Playing Game Genesis Pits Sourcebook
Robotech The Shadow Chronicles Role Playing Game UEEF Marines Sourcebook


fans call it 2nd ed because that is functionally what it is, and because "Robotech The Shadow Chronicles Role Playing Game" is a mouthfull to say or write all the time.

with the exception of the last books, which include a large amount of wholly original content (and the the case of the very last one, a whole slew of timeline errors and contradictions), the Robotech The Shadow Chronicles Role Playing Game sticks close to harmony Gold's Current Continuity and Canon for the Robotech TV show and the Shadow Chronicles Film. this means many of the mecha and vehicles have been revamped to close reflect what was seen on screen and what HG's supplementary material states (liek the Alpha, cyclones, hovertank, VF-1 etc) while others have had near total overhauls (like the Beta, which the original RPG got almost completely wrong, and the ASC battloids and power armor, which the old RPG frequently misidentified.) it also saw the addition of units which appeared in background shots in the show but played a bigger role in HG's canon comic runs, like the Condor battloid, the Conbat fighter, and the Bioroid Interceptor.



unfortunately Palladium lost the license recently.

jaymz wrote:That tells me you haven't been even paying attention for the last 15+ years....

Not everybody is rich and can afford internet.

jaymz wrote:It's not in the store because they no longer have the license, again...

I'm aware of that.

glitterboy2098 wrote:the official name of the "2nd edition" robotech RPG is "Robotech: The Shadow Chronicles RPG"
it is comprised of;
Robotech The Shadow Chronicles Role Playing Game (mainbook)
Robotech The Shadow Chronicles Role Playing Game Deluxe Edition (Hardback)
Robotech The Shadow Chronicles Role Playing Game Macross Saga Sourcebook
Robotech The Shadow Chronicles Role Playing Game Masters Saga Sourcebook
Robotech The Shadow Chronicles Role Playing Game New Generation Saga Sourcebook
Robotech The Shadow Chronicles Role Playing Game Genesis Pits Sourcebook
Robotech The Shadow Chronicles Role Playing Game UEEF Marines Sourcebook
.

Oh, I have Shadow Chronicles - New Generation (I think), never saw or had a chance to see the others, and never a "Book 4 2nd Edition". Anyway I have used the others for 35 or so years and am happy with them.

Since, again, Rifts/Palladium is multi-dimensional, then all the books are valid, along with any GM modified rules/stats - just different universes - so I guess I will just stick to my original universe for now.

gmg4rwf wrote:Since, again, Rifts/Palladium is multi-dimensional, then all the books are valid, along with any GM modified rules/stats - just different universes - so I guess I will just stick to my original universe for now.

Fair enough, though I would gently caution you that practically all discussion of the Robotech RPG here is in the context of the "2nd Edition" game.

If you try to contribute to discussions using the old and wildly inaccurate "1st Edition" game as your reference, you're going to run into this kind of difficulty A LOT. The original Robotech RPG was made before Robotech had an official setting and canon, so a lot of it was pure guesswork and doesn't line up with the official setting and series canon. The so-called "2nd Edition" was required to closely adhere to that official setting and series canon for most of its run and drew VERY heavily on the now much more readily available Japanese source material, so the two editions of the game differ substantially on almost every detail.

2nd Edition isn't perfect, as you can see from this "nits" thread, but it's a gargantuan improvement of the old game largely being Robotech in name only.

gmg4rwf wrote:

jaymz wrote:That tells me you haven't been even paying attention for the last 15+ years....

Not everybody is rich and can afford internet.

Rich has nothing to do with either since, here you are....on the internet and indicating you have at least bought one or two of the newer books, one of which came out nearly 15 years ago -shrug-

gmg4rwf wrote:

jaymz wrote:It's not in the store because they no longer have the license, again...

I'm aware of that.

Good for you? You're the one who went on about how you can't find anything about the "2nd Edition" on Palladium's website. If you knew they didn't have the license then why bother commenting about it? Companies don't advertise or sell products they can't legal sell....unless they want to be sued.

As for just using what you got? Great, cool, but when you are discussing/debating things you are doing so from a lack of knowledge and understanding since, as Seto says above, we are all working from the "2nd edition" version and have pretty much blown the old stuff out the airlock where, frankly, it belongs.

If you want to argue from a position of ignorance that's on you. -shrug-

Seto Kaiba wrote:2nd Edition isn't perfect, as you can see from this "nits" thread, but it's a gargantuan improvement of the old game largely being Robotech in name only.

Sounds the opposite, I haven't seen it, but if they gave the E-20 and EU-11 only a very few shots - where the point of beam weapons is effectively unlimited ammo - then that is a major downgrade! Also someone listed the VHT as having a gun rather than an Ion cannon? I is shown in the anime , when they were trapped in the room aboard the Mothership and she tried to blast her way out. The room was "magnetically sealed", preventing her Ion cannon blast from penetrating, a cannon shell (damaging based on momentum) would not have given a rats-butt about magnetic fields, it would have gone through.

jaymz wrote:

gmg4rwf wrote:

jaymz wrote:That tells me you haven't been even paying attention for the last 15+ years....

Not everybody is rich and can afford internet.

Rich has nothing to do with either since, here you are....on the internet and...

because a few weeks ago a neighbor let me start borrowing their internet.

gmg4rwf wrote:Sounds the opposite, I haven't seen it, but if they gave the E-20 and EU-11 only a very few shots - where the point of beam weapons is effectively unlimited ammo - then that is a major downgrade!

The aforementioned gargantuan improvement was in its accuracy to the Robotech series, setting, and canon. Put simply, it's that the stats more accurately reflect the universe and content of the TV show. Laser and particle beam weapons in Robotech only have Effectively Unlimited ammunition if they're directly connected to the mecha's powerplant (i.e. built directly into the mecha). Gunpods like the EU-11 and EP-20 aren't, they're handheld and have self-contained power sources. On the New Generation mecha, it's a detachable energy "magazine". On the Masters Saga mecha, they made it an internal battery that recharges while the weapon is stowed.

gmg4rwf wrote:Also someone listed the VHT as having a gun rather than an Ion cannon? I is shown in the anime , when they were trapped in the room aboard the Mothership and she tried to blast her way out. The room was "magnetically sealed", preventing her Ion cannon blast from penetrating, a cannon shell (damaging based on momentum) would not have given a rats-butt about magnetic fields, it would have gone through.

Only the oldest model hovertanks... as a nod to a popular fan theory attempting to explain the curving trajectories seen in several shots. The armament of the standard/modern hovertank is a particle beam cannon. The weapon was actually a laser in the OSM.

I think that this thread has drifted far enough from the topic. Locked.