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Nightmask wrote:

paxmiles wrote:So is the conclusion that such traits would likely be weeded out of mutants? Or is it just an issue of it affects some more than others?

I think with both examples, it should be pretty easy for the mutants to avoid contact with the substances. I wouldn't consider either a weakness, rather a trait.

Me personally, I can't have cow milk anymore. On the flip side, by not having dairy products, I cut the majority of fat intake from my diet. Although annoying, I'd call it a trait rather than a weakness.
-Pax

There's no reason to think they'd be removing those traits from the products of their Dog Boys or Battle Cats, while skilled above everyone else on Rifts Earth with regards to genetics (outside the rare rifts victim from places like After the Bomb or the Gene-Splicers) they aren't such masters of it that they could remove something like the narcotic reaction of cats to Catnip or even see reason to.

Wait wait wait.... lol

Ok. 1) The dogboys were created before the time of rifts. Bradford just picked up the files, cleaned the machines and turned um on. (( yes a bit more to it but you get the idea))

2) It's your opinion.... that the science is so advanced, that you could take a pit bull or a poodle, or a jack russel terrier or a great dane (( and infact not just one, but ALLL of them, with all their different codes)).... and using science change it. Make it as big as a man. Change it's entire body to the point where it's bipedal. Change it's entire body so it has full human hands. Change the creature so much that it can speak as a human (( while keeping a dog's mouth)) and most astoundingly of all... take that dog's brain, and elevate it, and change it to such an amazingly drastic degree, that the creature in question is ----the equal to human intelligence----. They can do ALL of this, and to the extent that not only can they bioengineer these things, but make the creatures so perfect that they can breed and reporduce their own kind. (( a huge step.))

They can do ALL of that.... the most astounding thing being taking a dog brain up to human intelligence...... ALL of that...

but they can't change the dog's stomach so chocolate doesn't make them puke.... or Cat's don't get a bit loopy when they roll in dried catnip?

Really? ALLLLLL That science, all those huge changes that are beyond the ken of man's current ability in science.... and they can't remove a mild food allergy?

Regarding genetic boobytraps in the DogBoys, considering the prevalence of high-tech on Rifts Earth, I'd be dubious of their existence. All it would take is one of the CS's opponents to sample a selection of their enemy's attack-dogs, sequence them, and then search for destroyer sequences in their DNA. Not necessarily a trivial undertaking, but probably not outrageously difficult for any well-equipped faction.

Qev wrote:Regarding genetic boobytraps in the DogBoys, considering the prevalence of high-tech on Rifts Earth, I'd be dubious of their existence. All it would take is one of the CS's opponents to sample a selection of their enemy's attack-dogs, sequence them, and then search for destroyer sequences in their DNA. Not necessarily a trivial undertaking, but probably not outrageously difficult for any well-equipped faction.

Other than Mindwerks, in Poland, who could do it?

Qev wrote:Regarding genetic boobytraps in the DogBoys, considering the prevalence of high-tech on Rifts Earth, I'd be dubious of their existence. All it would take is one of the CS's opponents to sample a selection of their enemy's attack-dogs, sequence them, and then search for destroyer sequences in their DNA. Not necessarily a trivial undertaking, but probably not outrageously difficult for any well-equipped faction.

I'd have to agree with that, a built-in item to be usable against you is always a bad idea. Like having a remote self-destruct or shutdown code in your tech, all it takes is someone cracking that and your entire army is crippled or rendered almost useless.

Nightmask wrote:

Qev wrote:Regarding genetic boobytraps in the DogBoys, considering the prevalence of high-tech on Rifts Earth, I'd be dubious of their existence. All it would take is one of the CS's opponents to sample a selection of their enemy's attack-dogs, sequence them, and then search for destroyer sequences in their DNA. Not necessarily a trivial undertaking, but probably not outrageously difficult for any well-equipped faction.

I'd have to agree with that, a built-in item to be usable against you is always a bad idea. Like having a remote self-destruct or shutdown code in your tech, all it takes is someone cracking that and your entire army is crippled or rendered almost useless.

In some situations you may be correct, but I pose the question to you again. Who on earth, has that level of genetic knowledge and the ability to decipher genetic code?

We don't have that ability NOW. Who on Rifts earth has it, AND the facility needed to do it?

If noone CAN do such a thing, it's not much of a threat. And if they had the ability to get down into a genetic code like that and find the hidden genetic 'boobytrap'... couldn't they just make bio weapons specificly aimed at humans, and take us all out, not worrying about the dog boys at all?

Pepsi Jedi wrote:

Qev wrote:Regarding genetic boobytraps in the DogBoys, considering the prevalence of high-tech on Rifts Earth, I'd be dubious of their existence. All it would take is one of the CS's opponents to sample a selection of their enemy's attack-dogs, sequence them, and then search for destroyer sequences in their DNA. Not necessarily a trivial undertaking, but probably not outrageously difficult for any well-equipped faction.

Other than Mindwerks, in Poland, who could do it?

Off the top of my head...
Tundra Rangers have a genetics research center IIRC, (though it goes unused for the most part).
The Achilles Republic in South America (again, IIRC)
Triax and the NGR,
Japan,
Mindwerks,
Atlantis,
Geofront,
Gene-splicers,
maybe the tech-cities in Australia

Essentially, IMHO, any contingent with access to Golden Age or greater level of Tech would likely have the capability to work a breakdown on genetics (standard Golden Age medical capability, used mostly to clone organs and create bio-system cybernetics) and work a virus. But thankfully for the CS, most of those that could enact such a plan really have no interest in doing so.

Mercdog wrote:

Pepsi Jedi wrote:

Qev wrote:Regarding genetic boobytraps in the DogBoys, considering the prevalence of high-tech on Rifts Earth, I'd be dubious of their existence. All it would take is one of the CS's opponents to sample a selection of their enemy's attack-dogs, sequence them, and then search for destroyer sequences in their DNA. Not necessarily a trivial undertaking, but probably not outrageously difficult for any well-equipped faction.

Other than Mindwerks, in Poland, who could do it?

Off the top of my head...
Tundra Rangers have a genetics research center IIRC, (though it goes unused for the most part).
The Achilles Republic in South America (again, IIRC)
Triax and the NGR,
Japan,
Mindwerks,
Atlantis,
Geofront,
Gene-splicers,
maybe the tech-cities in Australia

Essentially, IMHO, any contingent with access to Golden Age or greater level of Tech would likely have the capability to work a breakdown on genetics (standard Golden Age medical capability, used mostly to clone organs and create bio-system cybernetics) and work a virus. But thankfully for the CS, most of those that could enact such a plan really have no interest in doing so.

You forgot Lemuria

I'd include Archie as a (very big) maybe on that list as well (he did, afterall make the giant brain). But, like I said, that's only a maybe.

Jedrious wrote:

Mercdog wrote:

Pepsi Jedi wrote:

Qev wrote:Regarding genetic boobytraps in the DogBoys, considering the prevalence of high-tech on Rifts Earth, I'd be dubious of their existence. All it would take is one of the CS's opponents to sample a selection of their enemy's attack-dogs, sequence them, and then search for destroyer sequences in their DNA. Not necessarily a trivial undertaking, but probably not outrageously difficult for any well-equipped faction.

Other than Mindwerks, in Poland, who could do it?

Off the top of my head...
Tundra Rangers have a genetics research center IIRC, (though it goes unused for the most part).
The Achilles Republic in South America (again, IIRC)
Triax and the NGR,
Japan,
Mindwerks,
Atlantis,
Geofront,
Gene-splicers,
maybe the tech-cities in Australia

Essentially, IMHO, any contingent with access to Golden Age or greater level of Tech would likely have the capability to work a breakdown on genetics (standard Golden Age medical capability, used mostly to clone organs and create bio-system cybernetics) and work a virus. But thankfully for the CS, most of those that could enact such a plan really have no interest in doing so.

You forgot Lemuria

Well I did say 'off the top of my head'.
I'm sure there are plenty of other factions I left out as well.

camk4evr wrote:I'd include Archie as a (very big) maybe on that list as well (he did, afterall make the giant brain). But, like I said, that's only a maybe.

The giant brain's not the result of genetic engineering, I believe. It's more likely to be the same sort of synthetic flesh used in cybernetic biosystems, with lots of foam rubber and fake body fluids to give the impression of a great big biological entity. After all, when back-up plans in event somebody were to 'kill' the brain are to swarm the place full of robots, or self-destruct the set, who's going to stick around to do an autopsy or collect samples for DNA analysis?

Everything is poisonous in high enough doses, including water

Pepsi Jedi wrote:

zaccheus wrote:IM A VETERINARIAN DO NOT LISTEN TO PEPSI ON THIS TOPIC!! Chocalate and caffeine are very toxic to dogs, more so when combined. Like any poison (including alcohol in people, it is poisonous btw) dose matters and size of the creature poisoned matters. Ie a bigger dog requires a lot more chocalate than a smaller dog. I thin what Pepsi is confusing is milk for dark chocolate. It takes a lot of milk chocalate to make a dog sick because it is so dilute; dark or bakes on the other hand requires much less to be ingested to make your dog sick or die, and it's not a pleasant death either they get super excited then hypothermic and finally seize to death. It's best to just avoid chocalate at all cost because it's not worth the risk, but I your dog is big and got milk chocalate probably okay, but if he's small or got into dark chocalate call your vet ASAP, time is very important

Anyways to address the original topic I'm sure that shortcoming of dogs would be corrected just like cats inability to take Advil without dying would also be corrected

1) I'm not mistaking anything. Read my posts. In the very first response on this I note that dark chocolate is different. Then again when I went more into it, I again stipulated dark chocolate is different. Other than your yelling and stuff, you've said nothing different than I did. You even said milk chocolate is probably ok. And that it would take a lot of it to make a dog sick.

2) I don't know you from Adam, but for someone that had to go through 8+ years of higher education, not being able to spell chocolate correctly is a bit strange. I question your claims of being a Vet. You spelled the word wrong 5 times. This isn't me being a spelling Nazi (( you all know I do NOT spell all that great and I actually HATE spelling Nazi's)) but when someone is claiming higher education in a specialized medical field and to be a vet... and misspells chocolate wrong 5 times.... I question their claims.


But yeah... you basically said the same thing I did. It takes a lot of chocolate to make your dog sick and if your dog gets a bit of chocolate it'll probably be ok.

but what if chocalate is poisonous to dogs and chocolate isn't that bad?

Pepsi Jedi wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

Qev wrote:Regarding genetic boobytraps in the DogBoys, considering the prevalence of high-tech on Rifts Earth, I'd be dubious of their existence. All it would take is one of the CS's opponents to sample a selection of their enemy's attack-dogs, sequence them, and then search for destroyer sequences in their DNA. Not necessarily a trivial undertaking, but probably not outrageously difficult for any well-equipped faction.

I'd have to agree with that, a built-in item to be usable against you is always a bad idea. Like having a remote self-destruct or shutdown code in your tech, all it takes is someone cracking that and your entire army is crippled or rendered almost useless.

In some situations you may be correct, but I pose the question to you again. Who on earth, has that level of genetic knowledge and the ability to decipher genetic code?

We don't have that ability NOW. Who on Rifts earth has it, AND the facility needed to do it?

If noone CAN do such a thing, it's not much of a threat. And if they had the ability to get down into a genetic code like that and find the hidden genetic 'boobytrap'... couldn't they just make bio weapons specificly aimed at humans, and take us all out, not worrying about the dog boys at all?

considering every other chapter in a Rifts book, some new kingdom or some such are finding a "lost manufacturing facility able to produce various wonders of the time before the Rifts!!!", the chances of someone finding a genetics lab is pretty good, they just don't write about them, because you finding a genetic sequencer able to decipher up to the 3 to the 4th power of genetic code in 2 melee actions isn't as exciting as finding that whiz-bang new gun or power armor suit.

as to the OPs question; whatever makes for a better story at the time. If the battlecat is about to finish off the brave cyber-knight, but the player has a moment of quick thinking and the herbilism skill and identifies a nearby catnip plant and uses that as a distraction to gain an upperhand, go with it it. On the otherhand, if they want to make a dark chocolate bomb to annihilate a Dogboy platoon...find a new group after telling them it ain't gonna work.

Mercdog wrote:

Pepsi Jedi wrote:

Qev wrote:Regarding genetic boobytraps in the DogBoys, considering the prevalence of high-tech on Rifts Earth, I'd be dubious of their existence. All it would take is one of the CS's opponents to sample a selection of their enemy's attack-dogs, sequence them, and then search for destroyer sequences in their DNA. Not necessarily a trivial undertaking, but probably not outrageously difficult for any well-equipped faction.

Other than Mindwerks, in Poland, who could do it?

Off the top of my head...
Tundra Rangers have a genetics research center IIRC, (though it goes unused for the most part).

They don't have the ability to do dog boy level genetics, I don't believe. I don't REMEMBER reading that, but I haven't read the book in a while.

Mercdog wrote:
The Achilles Republic in South America (again, IIRC)
Triax and the NGR,

The NGR has shown nothing like the level of genetic knowledge that lone star has. NGR has good medicine and bionics and what bot but not genetics, not on the same level.

Mercdog wrote:
Japan,

Does it? I know they just kinda fast forwarded Japan but I don't remember alot of genetic stuff there either.

Mercdog wrote:
Mindwerks,

Yeah I mentioned Mindwerks.

Mercdog wrote:
Atlantis,

Naaa they're differently oriented. Atlantis is all about the magic and the bio borg stuff, symbionites ect. They don't have ultra high tech genetics facilities.

Mercdog wrote:
Geofront,

I'll admit to having not read all of the china books, but I don't REMEMBER genetic stuff like that. If it's there, I'm ignorantof it. But I fully confess ignorance of the china books. I wasn't too impressed and haven't played there so my knowledge is limited.

Mercdog wrote:
maybe the tech-cities in Australia

Naa, Australia (As crappy as it is)) Didn't have anything like super hyper advanced genetics labs in it.

Mercdog wrote:
Essentially, IMHO, any contingent with access to Golden Age or greater level of Tech would likely have the capability to work a breakdown on genetics (standard Golden Age medical capability, used mostly to clone organs and create bio-system cybernetics) and work a virus. But thankfully for the CS, most of those that could enact such a plan really have no interest in doing so.

Well there's a difference between having high tech medicine. (( and I agree to use bionics and stuff you DO have to have HIGH TECH MEDICAL knowledge and such)) and being able to create a new sapient, speaking, bipedal, full hands life form from a pug dog.

A few of the places might have the ability, but just being "That book's big city/country' doesn't default to it. Mindwerks, probably. I seem to remember there being one south american place that worked with mutant animals (( I'm assuming that's the one you listed off )), but shy of that I don't remember anyone that could try it.

As you did point out, many of those that could are too far away and have thier own problems, so they're not sitting around digging into the microscopic genetic potential of dog boys 1000s and 1000s of miles away.

cyber-yukongil v2.5 wrote:[

as to the OPs question; whatever makes for a better story at the time. If the battlecat is about to finish off the brave cyber-knight, but the player has a moment of quick thinking and the herbilism skill and identifies a nearby catnip plant and uses that as a distraction to gain an upperhand, go with it it..

...Or, you wind up with a hopped-up Battlecat that's that much more inclined to happily tear you apart in a drug-enhanced frenzy because it sees you as a fresh bowl of Tender Vittles...

Pepsi Jedi wrote:[Well there's a difference between having high tech medicine. (( and I agree to use bionics and stuff you DO have to have HIGH TECH MEDICAL knowledge and such)) and being able to create a new sapient, speaking, bipedal, full hands life form from a pug dog.

A few of the places might have the ability, but just being "That book's big city/country' doesn't default to it. Mindwerks, probably. I seem to remember there being one south american place that worked with mutant animals (( I'm assuming that's the one you listed off )), but shy of that I don't remember anyone that could try it.

As you did point out, many of those that could are too far away and have thier own problems, so they're not sitting around digging into the microscopic genetic potential of dog boys 1000s and 1000s of miles away.

I'll just some up my feelings on the subject as "You don't need to know how to make a dog boy to figure out how to take one apart."

Mercdog wrote:

Pepsi Jedi wrote:[Well there's a difference between having high tech medicine. (( and I agree to use bionics and stuff you DO have to have HIGH TECH MEDICAL knowledge and such)) and being able to create a new sapient, speaking, bipedal, full hands life form from a pug dog.

A few of the places might have the ability, but just being "That book's big city/country' doesn't default to it. Mindwerks, probably. I seem to remember there being one south american place that worked with mutant animals (( I'm assuming that's the one you listed off )), but shy of that I don't remember anyone that could try it.

As you did point out, many of those that could are too far away and have thier own problems, so they're not sitting around digging into the microscopic genetic potential of dog boys 1000s and 1000s of miles away.

I'll just some up my feelings on the subject as "You don't need to know how to make a dog boy to figure out how to take one apart."

Yeah, but isn't it just infinatly easier to shoot um, or make your own disease, super distemper or something, instead of looking into the billions of lines of genetic code to find bradfords 'Backdoor'?

Making chemical weapons isn't really that difficult. That's why they're so scary.

Pepsi Jedi wrote:

Mercdog wrote:

Pepsi Jedi wrote:[Well there's a difference between having high tech medicine. (( and I agree to use bionics and stuff you DO have to have HIGH TECH MEDICAL knowledge and such)) and being able to create a new sapient, speaking, bipedal, full hands life form from a pug dog.

A few of the places might have the ability, but just being "That book's big city/country' doesn't default to it. Mindwerks, probably. I seem to remember there being one south american place that worked with mutant animals (( I'm assuming that's the one you listed off )), but shy of that I don't remember anyone that could try it.

As you did point out, many of those that could are too far away and have thier own problems, so they're not sitting around digging into the microscopic genetic potential of dog boys 1000s and 1000s of miles away.

I'll just some up my feelings on the subject as "You don't need to know how to make a dog boy to figure out how to take one apart."

Yeah, but isn't it just infinatly easier to shoot um, or make your own disease, super distemper or something, instead of looking into the billions of lines of genetic code to find bradfords 'Backdoor'?

Making chemical weapons isn't really that difficult. That's why they're so scary.

Yes, it would, and viral or chemical are the ones I'd use. But the question wasn't 'Which would be easier', it was 'Other than Mindwerks, Who could do it?'. I just listed some possibles.

Mercdog wrote:

Pepsi Jedi wrote:

Mercdog wrote:

Pepsi Jedi wrote:[Well there's a difference between having high tech medicine. (( and I agree to use bionics and stuff you DO have to have HIGH TECH MEDICAL knowledge and such)) and being able to create a new sapient, speaking, bipedal, full hands life form from a pug dog.

A few of the places might have the ability, but just being "That book's big city/country' doesn't default to it. Mindwerks, probably. I seem to remember there being one south american place that worked with mutant animals (( I'm assuming that's the one you listed off )), but shy of that I don't remember anyone that could try it.

As you did point out, many of those that could are too far away and have thier own problems, so they're not sitting around digging into the microscopic genetic potential of dog boys 1000s and 1000s of miles away.

I'll just some up my feelings on the subject as "You don't need to know how to make a dog boy to figure out how to take one apart."

Yeah, but isn't it just infinatly easier to shoot um, or make your own disease, super distemper or something, instead of looking into the billions of lines of genetic code to find bradfords 'Backdoor'?

Making chemical weapons isn't really that difficult. That's why they're so scary.

Yes, it would, and viral or chemical are the ones I'd use. But the question wasn't 'Which would be easier', it was 'Other than Mindwerks, Who could do it?'. I just listed some possibles.

Indeed but only like two really could. And they're both on other contenents. lol.

So.. two, three places on earth might be able to do it, but even if they could, why go to allll that much trouble? it'd be like building an aircraft carrier to cross a 15 foot creek. It'd just be easier to build a bridge or wade across or something.

Instead of breaking down billions of lines of code it'd be sooooo much easier to just throw a bioweapon, or chem weapon at them. Heck you can cook up bio weapons in warehouses if you have the right gear. (( yes the gear is very expensive but nations can afford it)).

paxmiles wrote:Even if chocolate is poisonous, were talking ingestion. Even at IQ8, I'm still thinking you have enough intelligence to say no to poison. It's probably in the CS Dogboy 101, noting the smell of chocolate.

As for the creation of mutants, remember this is rifts, so it doesn't even have to be created here, as it could just rift in from another world.

For the catnip one, again, seems like some the CS would have trained out of the cats. I doubt it's a genetic fix, but a military grade training.

I know the CS is smart, so I think any mutants in their care are at least trained to avoid potential issues to their health or combat effectiveness.

I think if dogboy or battle cat is in the wild, not CS raised, these might be issues. Could be interesting.
-Pax

I wonder how you train someone to not have a physical reaction based on your biology to a substance, it'd be like trying to train someone to not bleed.

Nightmask wrote:

paxmiles wrote:Even if chocolate is poisonous, were talking ingestion. Even at IQ8, I'm still thinking you have enough intelligence to say no to poison. It's probably in the CS Dogboy 101, noting the smell of chocolate.

As for the creation of mutants, remember this is rifts, so it doesn't even have to be created here, as it could just rift in from another world.

For the catnip one, again, seems like some the CS would have trained out of the cats. I doubt it's a genetic fix, but a military grade training.

I know the CS is smart, so I think any mutants in their care are at least trained to avoid potential issues to their health or combat effectiveness.

I think if dogboy or battle cat is in the wild, not CS raised, these might be issues. Could be interesting.
-Pax

I wonder how you train someone to not have a physical reaction based on your biology to a substance, it'd be like trying to train someone to not bleed.

"If you eat poison you could die... don't eat poison." Training complete.

Pepsi Jedi wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

paxmiles wrote:Even if chocolate is poisonous, were talking ingestion. Even at IQ8, I'm still thinking you have enough intelligence to say no to poison. It's probably in the CS Dogboy 101, noting the smell of chocolate.

As for the creation of mutants, remember this is rifts, so it doesn't even have to be created here, as it could just rift in from another world.

For the catnip one, again, seems like some the CS would have trained out of the cats. I doubt it's a genetic fix, but a military grade training.

I know the CS is smart, so I think any mutants in their care are at least trained to avoid potential issues to their health or combat effectiveness.

I think if dogboy or battle cat is in the wild, not CS raised, these might be issues. Could be interesting.
-Pax

I wonder how you train someone to not have a physical reaction based on your biology to a substance, it'd be like trying to train someone to not bleed.

"If you eat poison you could die... don't eat poison." Training complete.

Laugh out Loud, deep belly laugh. Thanks PJ

Pepsi Jedi wrote:[
"If you eat poison you could die... don't eat poison." Training complete.

Well...there goes my arsenic habit.

IF it was a big deal and IF They didn't remove it, and IF it actually hurt them, it'd be no different than some human that's allergic to peanuts or seafood.

You just don't eat peanuts or seafood. You're careful about what you eat. Nothing more. "Oh I can't eat that it's got clams in it" or "I can't eat PB&J.. I know.. I should just kill myself now"

Then on the other hand, how often are you going to encounter REAL chocolate on Rifts Earth, instead of, say, 'dark-tinted sugary solid stuff in a cellophane wrapper'...

taalismn wrote:Then on the other hand, how often are you going to encounter REAL chocolate on Rifts Earth, instead of, say, 'dark-tinted sugary solid stuff in a cellophane wrapper'...

That's true. Not like there's a TON of import from SA to NA. And even then, the CS isn't going to buy "The real stuff" and feed it to the troops. Much less the dog boys.

Very good point.

Pepsi Jedi wrote:

taalismn wrote:Then on the other hand, how often are you going to encounter REAL chocolate on Rifts Earth, instead of, say, 'dark-tinted sugary solid stuff in a cellophane wrapper'...

That's true. Not like there's a TON of import from SA to NA. And even then, the CS isn't going to buy "The real stuff" and feed it to the troops. Much less the dog boys.

Very good point.

It's like finding caviar in Russian troops' mess kits. Vodka, maybe, hidden in the vehicles, but not caviar.

Pepsi Jedi wrote:
"If you eat poison you could die... don't eat poison." Training complete.

Actually, that may be the best point in this whole debate.

My dog, Chestnut, would eat chocolate if I dropped it on the floor because he dosn't know any better. Dog Boys do know better. Unlike real dogs, Dog Boys have intellegence, and reason, and can just choose to not eat the stuff.

Post #1616

Hystrix wrote:

Pepsi Jedi wrote:
"If you eat poison you could die... don't eat poison." Training complete.

Actually, that may be the best point in this whole debate.

My dog, Chestnut, would eat chocolate if I dropped it on the floor because he dosn't know any better. Dog Boys do know better. Unlike real dogs, Dog Boys have intellegence, and reason, and can just choose to not eat the stuff.

Post #1616

Which doesn't do much for the other point, regarding anthros that respond to substances that just need to be inhaled to affect them like cats and catnip. All well and good to say 'avoid breathing in catnip' but it's pretty worthless when someone tosses off an aerosol bomb that releases concentrated catnip into a group of mutant cats who aren't in sealed environmental armor as it's a bit hard to just not breathe especially without warning to prepare.

Nightmask wrote:

Hystrix wrote:

Pepsi Jedi wrote:
"If you eat poison you could die... don't eat poison." Training complete.

Actually, that may be the best point in this whole debate.

My dog, Chestnut, would eat chocolate if I dropped it on the floor because he dosn't know any better. Dog Boys do know better. Unlike real dogs, Dog Boys have intellegence, and reason, and can just choose to not eat the stuff.

Post #1616

Which doesn't do much for the other point, regarding anthros that respond to substances that just need to be inhaled to affect them like cats and catnip. All well and good to say 'avoid breathing in catnip' but it's pretty worthless when someone tosses off an aerosol bomb that releases concentrated catnip into a group of mutant cats who aren't in sealed environmental armor as it's a bit hard to just not breathe especially without warning to prepare.

Not really. You react like any other troop if someone throws a gas grenade. You hold your breath and react.

And again. I ask you just what effect do you think catnip has?

They're battle cats. if anyone throws a gas grenade around them they're going to hold their breath and either get out of dodge, or put on their air filter or gas mask. As on page 79 of Lone Star. They all come with one.

Just like our troops are trained that if we get gassed they're to put on their gas masks.... I'm sure Battle cats that are the result of CS training can do the same.

A gas grenade is thrown near them. The Battle cat's ears perk up. he snarls and reaches to his belt or pack and pulls on the gas mask over his muzzle, voids the bad air inside. Then locks back onto the target and attacks. REALLY mad now. That fool just tried to gas a 6 foot bipedal tiger!!

You know... act just like a human if you throw tear gas near them?

Because.... the mutant cats, are just as smart as humans. IQ 3D6. Plenty smart enough to put on a gas mask. With PP being higher they'd be quicker to do so as well and PE being higher, they can hold their breath longer.

paxmiles wrote:As much as catnip grenades sound fun, I'm wondering about the situation that would actually require one. I mean, it's not like the CS has a large battalion of just battle cats, one that dominates a certain area, making the resistance construct catnip grenades because its their only hope.

The battle cats are not OP, they aren't a solo act, and should be few enough in number that a specific anti-battle cat weapon is probably not going to come up.

That said, I can totally picture bradford, or another mad genius, having a few he made just for kicks, or to see what would happen. No mass production, but 1 or 2 just for the heck of it.
-Pax

Well there's always the option to make custom weapons to deal with a particular threat, so someone knowing there might be battle cats to worry about might make some catnip grenades as a means to be on the more non-lethal end to try and incapacitate a target rather than having to resort to killing. I agree that a group isn't likely to manufacture the things en masse, not without a really compelling reason.

Nightmask wrote:

paxmiles wrote:As much as catnip grenades sound fun, I'm wondering about the situation that would actually require one. I mean, it's not like the CS has a large battalion of just battle cats, one that dominates a certain area, making the resistance construct catnip grenades because its their only hope.

The battle cats are not OP, they aren't a solo act, and should be few enough in number that a specific anti-battle cat weapon is probably not going to come up.

That said, I can totally picture bradford, or another mad genius, having a few he made just for kicks, or to see what would happen. No mass production, but 1 or 2 just for the heck of it.
-Pax

Well there's always the option to make custom weapons to deal with a particular threat, so someone knowing there might be battle cats to worry about might make some catnip grenades as a means to be on the more non-lethal end to try and incapacitate a target rather than having to resort to killing. I agree that a group isn't likely to manufacture the things en masse, not without a really compelling reason.

You keep ignoring the question. What is it YOU think catnip does? lol Because it does NOT NOT NOT incapacitate my cats. 1 ignores it. 1 is mildly effective and the third goes bug nuts crazy.

If you have a Battle cat with vibro weapons or laser guns or something, do you really want to give it Speed? You're acting like Catnip knocks out cat's and leaves them laying on the floor. It works them UP. Not DOWN. If you were manage to some how (( god I feel stupid just typing this )) Weaponizing Catnip, I think it would have very INVERSE effects.t Added attacks per melee and bonus to strength and speed. (( probably reductions to strike, because of how spastic they become but nothing too huge))

My one cat runs up and down the hall and banks off couches and goes flying through the air. It doesn't eat some catnip, gag and pass out.