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Posted: **Sun Jun 01, 2014 3:47 pm**

Icefalcon wrote:
Trent wrote:
Josh Hilden wrote:
Icefalcon wrote:
Josh Hilden wrote:The Upper Peninsula of Michigan.

Too much snow and no snowplows would nix this one for me.

Low population, plentiful game and fish, abandoned mines, surrounded by water on three sides.

And if its like the rest of Mich. and Wis. there are more than a few snowmobiles around . The long cold winters would slow them down and make them easier kills . And isnt there a large state park there ?

I live in lower Minnesota. Mostly farm country around here. We don't get nearly the amount of snow the rest of the state gets, plenty of snowmobiles and gets plenty cold enough to slow zombies.

Farms are ever better . great resources there in equipment , building material , seed crop and livestock , weapons and a good amount of others .

Posted: **Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:52 am**

Hello...

Oberoth wrote:Alberta, Canada. Lots of forest and mountain ranges nearby. I would probably head for the Rocky Mountains.

If I had to guess ten states it would be these.

Alaska, Montana, Washington, Idaho, North Dakota, Minnesota, Michigan, Oregon, Main, Wisconsin.

Mainly chosen for their high Latitudes where cold winters can give an edge against the undead.

I've been hoping to visit this thread, and I like the way it sounds. Anyway, I would agree with you Oberoth - the Rocky Mountains would be a worthy place to hole up. From my foggy memory, I seem to remember in the novel World War Z that the Rocky Mountains, also known as the "Rocky Line" was used as a sort of safe haven and possibly a sort of Maginot Line-style barrier until the rest of the country was taken back. Personally, I'm not sure about how this was really implemented, but if someone can clarify, I would appreciate it.

Mentioning the Rocky Mountains also brings up another point - that other mountain ranges may be useful places to hole up as well. For example, the Allegheny Mountains would be a useful place to set up a safe haven, and somewhere in the Dead Reign books it was stated that somewhere around one of America's eastern mountain ranges large survivalist groups there have acquired vintage M48A3 main battle tanks to defend it. But really, that is what I can remember. So anyway, please take care; thanks a bunch, and have a good day.

whassupman03 :-)

Posted: **Wed Jul 30, 2014 4:29 pm**

whassupman03 wrote:Hello...

Oberoth wrote:Alberta, Canada. Lots of forest and mountain ranges nearby. I would probably head for the Rocky Mountains.

If I had to guess ten states it would be these.

Alaska, Montana, Washington, Idaho, North Dakota, Minnesota, Michigan, Oregon, Main, Wisconsin.

Mainly chosen for their high Latitudes where cold winters can give an edge against the undead.

I've been hoping to visit this thread, and I like the way it sounds. Anyway, I would agree with you Oberoth - the Rocky Mountains would be a worthy place to hole up. From my foggy memory, I seem to remember in the novel World War Z that the Rocky Mountains, also known as the "Rocky Line" was used as a sort of safe haven and possibly a sort of Maginot Line-style barrier until the rest of the country was taken back. Personally, I'm not sure about how this was really implemented, but if someone can clarify, I would appreciate it. Mentioning the Rocky Mountains also brings up another point - that other mountain ranges may be useful places to hole up as well. For example, the Allegheny Mountains would be a useful place to set up a safe haven, and somewhere in the Dead Reign books it was stated that somewhere around one of America's eastern mountain ranges large survivalist groups there have acquired vintage M48A3 main battle tanks to defend it. But really, that is what I can remember. So anyway, please take care; thanks a bunch, and have a good day.

whassupman03

And most areas of the rocky mountains such as in Co will have many abandonded mines and mining towns just sitting there ready to be reclaimed or striped of resources . Did some digging and was surpprised at how many old towns like that there are . Many in long narrow valleys with only one or two access points . Plus what about all those small mounyain resorts built in the 30s - 70s and eventually gone belly up when tourism went to hell in the 80s and 90s . Same in the Smokies too .

Posted: **Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:41 am**

Hello...

Trent wrote:And most areas of the rocky mountains such as in Co will have many abandonded mines and mining towns just sitting there ready to be reclaimed or striped of resources . Did some digging and was surpprised at how many old towns like that there are . Many in long narrow valleys with only one or two access points . Plus what about all those small mounyain resorts built in the 30s - 70s and eventually gone belly up when tourism went to hell in the 80s and 90s . Same in the Smokies too .

Yep - Colorado and other mountain states like it have plenty of abandoned mines and the ghost towns to go with them, presumably with plenty of resources to spare. It's also surprising how many resources are available in the Rocky Mountains - mineral resources include copper, gold, lead, molybdenum, silver, tungsten, and zinc, while there are also deposits of coal, natural gas, oil shale, and petroleum in some of the basins, like the Wyoming Basin. Plenty of good hunting, fishing, and foraging can be accomplished in the mountains, and just because you live in the mountains doesn't mean that you can't grow crops as well - dryland and irrigated farming can be carried out, as well as the raising of livestock, with plenty of land for them to graze on.[sup]1[/sup] As well, there is a steady supply of timber for both burning and construction. Finally, the ski resorts as you said Trent are good resources to scavenge through - they include hotels, restaurants, equipment rentals where you can find plenty of alpine equipment, and even first aid facilities.[sup]2[/sup] Vail, for example, was established by veterans of the 10th Mountain Division, who served in World War II, so there tends to be a common military heritage in the resorts.[sup]3[/sup] Evidently, you're right. :-D

So please take care; thanks a bunch, and have a good day.

whassupman03 :mrgreen:

[1]: Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky_Mountains#Economy
[2]: Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ski_resort
[3]: Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vail_Ski_Resort

Posted: **Mon Aug 04, 2014 3:50 pm**

The issue most people who don't live in the Rockies (and further west) don't even remotely consider is the fire hazard and it can be pretty serious even with fire fighting resources available.
These fires now aren't going out until they go out themselves as there won't be anyone doing anything about them.
The more people you have who have no idea what they are doing out there the considerably higher chance of a fire happening is.

Posted: **Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:50 am**

Hello...

Gamer wrote:The issue most people who don't live in the Rockies (and further west) don't even remotely consider is the fire hazard and it can be pretty serious even with fire fighting resources available.
These fires now aren't going out until they go out themselves as there won't be anyone doing anything about them.
The more people you have who have no idea what they are doing out there the considerably higher chance of a fire happening is.

Understood Gamer; I should know - I lived in Colorado for twenty years! But anyway, you're right about the fire hazard. And while zombies are a threat, human foes might engage in copious arson to start wildfires for various reasons - even before the Wave it has happened before, but mostly due to morons doing something stupid.[sup]1[/sup]

Surviving mountain communities, outposts, and other facilities, along with local firefighters and policemen, might take a number of steps in the defense of their territory. One step to take would be to clear the perimeter of their safe haven of any vegetation or combustible materials outward anywhere from a few hundred feet to somewhere around a thousand. Drastic steps beyond this would be to actually dismantle buildings and relocate the tenants and materials closer to the central neighborhoods. Tenants may disagree with having their homes and businesses dismantled, but they could set up closer to town, keep the supplies and belongings they own, and the materials used in the construction of their buildings could either be put to fortifying the town or actual reconstruction - and reimbursement would be welcome! :wink:

While this can be used as a defense against wildfire, it also has a beneficial side effect - it provides a clear field of fire for the town's defenders. Zombies and even human enemies would have to march a long way to get to the town before they can be taken out by snipers, machine gunners, or booby traps around the town's perimeter. Even so, stronger buildings near the town's perimeter can be used as blockhouses to assist in the defense. For inspiration about defensible space, I refer you to this article at http://csfs.colostate.edu/pdfs/FIRE2012_1_DspaceQuickGuide.pdf; while it's not exactly tuned to actual defensive strategy, it provides inspiration for how they would improve the safety of their perimeter.

Quickly recollecting my thoughts, I hope you find these ideas useful, so please take care; thanks a bunch, and have a good day.

whassupman03

[1]: Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayman_Fire#Criminal_prosecutions

Posted: **Wed Aug 06, 2014 2:41 pm**

Hello...

Speaking of clear fields of fire, I once read a story about a survivalist who owned some property in the boonies. He hung a bell on his gate, and whenever an unwelcome visitor came, he would shoot the bell from his house with a .22 rifle. A sign on the gate said something like "You are 200 yards from my house. My ammunition travels at 250 feet per second. Good luck!"

There's some food for thought for everyone here. Please take care; thanks a bunch, and have a good afternoon.

whassupman03 :mrgreen:

Posted: **Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:10 pm**

I saw a sign that said trespassers will be shot, survivors will be shot again.

Posted: **Fri Aug 08, 2014 5:03 pm**

Gamer wrote:I saw a sign that said trespassers will be shot, survivors will be shot again.

Thats also a sign in Grand Theft Auto RPG

Posted: **Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:12 am**

Western Nebraska and Western Kansas. Pretty much all of it that isn't within 50 miles of a town with more than 6000 residents. Because any town that small isn't likely to have a hospital of any kind in it. Sick people would have been shipped into the bigger towns that actually had doctors and nurses. That leaves a lot of free space and free farmers who liked to go fishing and hunting during their free time. You would have some time to set up a fire wall and many of the local lakes are man made with a hydro power plant in the dam. Your main problem will be medicine, and a lot of neighbors.

Posted: **Thu Sep 04, 2014 4:57 pm**

Illendaver wrote:Western Nebraska and Western Kansas. Pretty much all of it that isn't within 50 miles of a town with more than 6000 residents. Because any town that small isn't likely to have a hospital of any kind in it. Sick people would have been shipped into the bigger towns that actually had doctors and nurses. That leaves a lot of free space and free farmers who liked to go fishing and hunting during their free time. You would have some time to set up a fire wall and many of the local lakes are man made with a hydro power plant in the dam. Your main problem will be medicine, and a lot of neighbors.

Yes my players looked at both those places . And in westeren Ks you have the big grass land national parks for resources too . They settled in a ghost town (fictional) across the state line in the far southeast corner of Colorado . Population average of 2 per sq mile . Right between 2 of those parks . All low land and you can see people or zombies coming for miles away with just a simple tower . Alot of farms and ranches not far away for building materials and even more resources and equipment . Excellent choice . You did your research .

Posted: **Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:43 am**

Hello...

Illendaver wrote:Western Nebraska and Western Kansas. Pretty much all of it that isn't within 50 miles of a town with more than 6000 residents. Because any town that small isn't likely to have a hospital of any kind in it. Sick people would have been shipped into the bigger towns that actually had doctors and nurses. That leaves a lot of free space and free farmers who liked to go fishing and hunting during their free time. You would have some time to set up a fire wall and many of the local lakes are man made with a hydro power plant in the dam. Your main problem will be medicine, and a lot of neighbors.

Not to mention that you have the Missouri River as well. The Missouri leads to the Mississippi River, which goes just about anywhere in America when you count the tributaries. While there are plenty of locks and dams to worry about, a good part of the Mississippi River is devoid of locks and dams, which allows easy transit to the Gulf of Mexico. I will refer you to an entry into a zombie safe house contest (Specifically the winner of the 2010 competition) that I found through another thread on this forum at http://zombiesafehouse.wordpress.com/2010-zshc-winner/. As you can see, it's essentially a tugboat and a few modified barges. Personally, I would tend to think that this barge tow can transit the Missouri onto the Mississippi, though I'm not so sure as to how far it can make it down due to the dams and jetties on the Missouri (Conceptualizing the zombie-based biodiesel was clever too... :twisted:

). But anyway, please take care; thanks a bunch, and have a good day.

whassupman03 :mrgreen:

Posted: **Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:23 am**

I actually had a barge based idea myself. The damned things are basically floating castles. Some modification knoweledge and a nod to Icefalcon for being on the same page about the Mississippi and you have a floating metal castle. Using the shipping containers already there you could have droppable mods that are Zombieproof. Scouts find likely resources along the river the barge comes in close drops a floating mod and backs into the river. Scavanger teams fill the mod as fast as possible (using it as an emergency bolt-hole if necessary). As a home has I would have a flotilla . of barges in the great lakes. The mods could also be dropped pre-packed in fertile scouted areas and used as shelter and safety by farm teams during summer.

Posted: **Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:28 am**

Hello...

Dr. Avery wrote:I actually had a barge based idea myself. The damned things are basically floating castles. Some modification knoweledge and a nod to Icefalcon for being on the same page about the Mississippi and you have a floating metal castle. Using the shipping containers already there you could have droppable mods that are Zombieproof. Scouts find likely resources along the river the barge comes in close drops a floating mod and backs into the river. Scavanger teams fill the mod as fast as possible (using it as an emergency bolt-hole if necessary). As a home has I would have a flotilla . of barges in the great lakes. The mods could also be dropped pre-packed in fertile scouted areas and used as shelter and safety by farm teams during summer.

Very good Dr. Avery! :-D

I like your ideas. And in addition, shipping containers can be used in the modification of the barge fleet, for use as housing, defensive emplacements, storage, etc. Like the originator of this idea once did, you can elevate the shipping containers used for housing so that if zombies board the barge, they will have trouble getting to the barge's living quarters. From my recollection, there are millions of shipping containers out there and tens of thousands of barges in the United States alone, so you can definitely be creative when using them.[sup]1, 2[/sup] Please take care; thanks a bunch, and have a good day.

whassupman03 :mrgreen:

[1]: Source: http://www.worldshipping.org/about-the-industry/containers/global-container-fleet
[2]: Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_bulk_cargo_barge

Posted: **Mon May 11, 2015 1:12 am**

whassupman03 wrote:Hello...

Trent wrote:And most areas of the rocky mountains such as in Co will have many abandonded mines and mining towns just sitting there ready to be reclaimed or striped of resources . Did some digging and was surpprised at how many old towns like that there are . Many in long narrow valleys with only one or two access points . Plus what about all those small mounyain resorts built in the 30s - 70s and eventually gone belly up when tourism went to hell in the 80s and 90s . Same in the Smokies too .

Yep - Colorado and other mountain states like it have plenty of abandoned mines and the ghost towns to go with them, presumably with plenty of resources to spare. It's also surprising how many resources are available in the Rocky Mountains - mineral resources include copper, gold, lead, molybdenum, silver, tungsten, and zinc, while there are also deposits of coal, natural gas, oil shale, and petroleum in some of the basins, like the Wyoming Basin. Plenty of good hunting, fishing, and foraging can be accomplished in the mountains, and just because you live in the mountains doesn't mean that you can't grow crops as well - dryland and irrigated farming can be carried out, as well as the raising of livestock, with plenty of land for them to graze on.[sup]1[/sup] As well, there is a steady supply of timber for both burning and construction. Finally, the ski resorts as you said Trent are good resources to scavenge through - they include hotels, restaurants, equipment rentals where you can find plenty of alpine equipment, and even first aid facilities.[sup]2[/sup] Vail, for example, was established by veterans of the 10th Mountain Division, who served in World War II, so there tends to be a common military heritage in the resorts.[sup]3[/sup] Evidently, you're right. So please take care; thanks a bunch, and have a good day.

whassupman03

[1]: Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky_Mountains#Economy
[2]: Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ski_resort
[3]: Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vail_Ski_Resort

I also read somewhere about at least 2 abandoned military sites (not necessarily actual bases) , one I think was a failed missile research program , left in the rockies . I cant find the site .

Posted: **Mon May 11, 2015 9:25 am**

Hello...

Trent wrote:I also read somewhere about at least 2 abandoned military sites (not necessarily actual bases) , one I think was a failed missile research program , left in the rockies . I cant find the site .

I don't know of anything like that, but I know that Cheyenne Mountain would be around there. Cheyenne Mountain could however be a cesspool of undeath, because of all of the poor people who fled there may very well have been killed by zombie hordes going after the big crowds.

Of course the bunker complex could be one of the few safe havens belonging to any surviving remnants of the government as well, if there were such a thing. But YMMV, since it is up to you, the GMs, to decide. Anyway, please take care; thanks a bunch, and have a good day.

whassupman03

Posted: **Mon May 11, 2015 6:26 pm**

May be useful : http://www.airfields-freeman.com/CO/Airfields_CO.htm , http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ ... y-bunkers/ ,

Posted: **Mon May 11, 2015 6:30 pm**

Trent wrote:May be useful : http://www.airfields-freeman.com/CO/Airfields_CO.htm , http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ ... y-bunkers/ ,

http://www.missilebases.com/#!nike-indiana/c1aq8

Posted: **Wed May 13, 2015 9:42 am**

Hello...

Trent wrote:May be useful : http://www.airfields-freeman.com/CO/Airfields_CO.htm , http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ ... y-bunkers/ ,

Trent wrote:http://www.missilebases.com/#!nike-indiana/c1aq8

Nice! In addition, I will present this directory of Wikipedia pages involving bases in the United States. The directory covers all branches of the military, and while incomplete it is still quite comprehensive. So I implore you take a look, even if it is Wikipedia...

Military installations of the United States by state

...Anyway, I thought it would be useful for this thread. Even so, this next one is much less comprehensive, but still useful...

Closed military facilities of the United States in the United States

...Hopefully those are useful enough. Please take care; thanks a bunch, and have a good day.

whassupman03

Posted: **Fri May 15, 2015 3:13 am**

Only problem with the barge idea would be people injured or knocked over board by chinese trout. >.>

Posted: **Fri May 15, 2015 3:33 am**

whassupman03 wrote:Hello...

Trent wrote:May be useful : http://www.airfields-freeman.com/CO/Airfields_CO.htm , http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ ... y-bunkers/ ,

Trent wrote:http://www.missilebases.com/#!nike-indiana/c1aq8

Nice! In addition, I will present this directory of Wikipedia pages involving bases in the United States. The directory covers all branches of the military, and while incomplete it is still quite comprehensive. So I implore you take a look, even if it is Wikipedia...

Military installations of the United States by state

...Anyway, I thought it would be useful for this thread. Even so, this next one is much less comprehensive, but still useful...

Closed military facilities of the United States in the United States

...Hopefully those are useful enough. Please take care; thanks a bunch, and have a good day.

whassupman03

Ya looked at those not long ago and have used 2 of the Wikipedia listed sites for adventures . There are a lot of places like that in the UK and Europe too .Some still in great condition and away from population centers . Its crazy whats out there if you know where to look . Even old military equipment . I am trying to buy one of these . Its in Ind sitting in a empty lot and still good metal . everything is there : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DUKW

Posted: **Sun May 31, 2015 8:01 pm**

Trent wrote:
whassupman03 wrote:Hello...

Trent wrote:May be useful : http://www.airfields-freeman.com/CO/Airfields_CO.htm , http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ ... y-bunkers/ ,

Trent wrote:http://www.missilebases.com/#!nike-indiana/c1aq8

Nice! In addition, I will present this directory of Wikipedia pages involving bases in the United States. The directory covers all branches of the military, and while incomplete it is still quite comprehensive. So I implore you take a look, even if it is Wikipedia...

Military installations of the United States by state

...Anyway, I thought it would be useful for this thread. Even so, this next one is much less comprehensive, but still useful...

Closed military facilities of the United States in the United States

...Hopefully those are useful enough. Please take care; thanks a bunch, and have a good day.

whassupman03

Ya looked at those not long ago and have used 2 of the Wikipedia listed sites for adventures . There are a lot of places like that in the UK and Europe too .Some still in great condition and away from population centers . Its crazy whats out there if you know where to look . Even old military equipment . I am trying to buy one of these . Its in Ind sitting in a empty lot and still good metal . everything is there : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DUKW

Has anyone mentioned Alaska?

Posted: **Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:44 am**

Hello...

SittingBull wrote:Has anyone mentioned Alaska?

I don't know, but I think that it might be worthwhile to think about. After all, Alaska was the destination for the Wright-Patterson Airlift mentioned in The Rifter, where thousands of survivors were ferried by air transport to new safe havens in what could be the last functional state of the union (Well at least to a point of course...). Personally I would compare the Wright-Patterson Airlift to Operation Frequent Wind in 1975, where tens of thousands of people in South Vietnam escaped the clutches of the North Vietnamese. During that operation, a somewhat little-known fact was that there were also side operations involving ships escaping through Saigon Port and Vung Tau, allowing large parts of the South Vietnamese Navy and its merchant marine to escape as well, adding many more people to the list of evacuees. One can say that a similar situation would occur in this case, where shipping on the US West Coast can escape to Alaska, bringing not only people but large amounts of equipment, supplies, weapons, and vehicles recovered from CONUS to aid the evacuees in making Alaska their new home.

That aside, there are some complications that have to be sorted out in Alaska, so take notes everyone! First of all, if one were to turn Alaska into a new post-Wave home for Americans worldwide, they must improve the available industrial base. The state may have lots of natural resources, but it lacks a sustainable amount of industry to fully make use of it. Refineries, factories, chemical plants, and other facilities must be built, and while there are already such things in Alaska, there are not enough to meet the full potential of the resource base there. Second, one must carve out a sustainable agricultural base as well. While there is plenty of land to grow food in Alaska, most of it is near the big cities, such as Anchorage, which will likely be a cesspool of undeath, so you must create new farms elsewhere until the big cities can be reclaimed for the living. Greenhouses and gardening may be a must for a while. Concluding with that, I must say that Alaska may be worthwhile, but it will take a lot of work to make it into the new breadbasket of the United States, both industrially and agriculturally. But anyway, please take care; thanks a bunch, and have a good day.

whassupman03

Posted: **Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:18 pm**

There are countless native towns and villages with no roads to them. You also have a lot of homesteaders who try not to live near the city. A large percentage of the inhabitants know the land and knowing the land is a big plus in evading and combating the undead.

Posted: **Wed Jun 03, 2015 9:56 am**

Hello...

SittingBull wrote:There are countless native towns and villages with no roads to them. You also have a lot of homesteaders who try not to live near the city. A large percentage of the inhabitants know the land and knowing the land is a big plus in evading and combating the undead.

Sure thing - I was talking about the farming areas for large farms rather than the homesteaders and small-scale farmers. But to add a slight tangent to this Alaska conversation, I wonder about all the World War II-era and Cold War-era military bases and outposts that are scattered throughout the state. If they're still around, could they act as safe havens for large amounts of refugees? I'm willing to bet that the old Army airfields could act as communities for refugees, military bases for surviving military personnel from CONUS, and operating bases and AMARC-style boneyards for USAF planes and aircraft belonging to private concerns such as Alaska Airlines and its subsidaries, which may be pressed into service to evacuate people from CONUS. And the old DEW radar outposts surrounding Alaska? Personally, I would consider using them as forward outposts to protect Alaska against seaborne pirates, raiders, and invading Death Cult forces, and as points of immigration where refugees from overseas can request asylum, be debriefed and then accepted into the last state of the union. Even so, please take care; thanks a bunch, and have a good day.

whassupman03

Posted: **Thu Jun 04, 2015 1:28 am**

I think you are picturing a lot more people than I am. I am thinking a group of 10 of less. I believe you are thinking military relocation for the safety of the masses. If I am right on your point of view then yes Alaska has more challenges than advantages.

Posted: **Sat Jun 06, 2015 1:40 pm**

SittingBull wrote:I think you are picturing a lot more people than I am. I am thinking a group of 10 of less. I believe you are thinking military relocation for the safety of the masses. If I am right on your point of view then yes Alaska has more challenges than advantages.

A safe haven may start out small but eventually someone is going to wonder upon it and word will spread . You will grow if you take in survivors or if you turn people away you will have to defend yourself . Having local resources and natural barriers to help defend yourself will come in handy . And if you have the idea to settle in a area then chances are others will too . Out of the way and hard to get to places means less competition for resources .

Posted: **Sat Jun 06, 2015 5:13 pm**

Alaska would, most likely, already have all the people that are going ever be there. Aside from a small percentage who might arrive there by boat or air, unless the military starts FED EXing people there of course. Most people from the US would not be up for making the trek up through Canada and into Alaska.

Posted: **Mon Jun 08, 2015 9:39 am**

Hello...

SittingBull wrote:I think you are picturing a lot more people than I am. I am thinking a group of 10 of less. I believe you are thinking military relocation for the safety of the masses. If I am right on your point of view then yes Alaska has more challenges than advantages.

SittingBull wrote:Alaska would, most likely, already have all the people that are going ever be there. Aside from a small percentage who might arrive there by boat or air, unless the military starts FED EXing people there of course. Most people from the US would not be up for making the trek up through Canada and into Alaska.

Just to let you know, I was discussing concepts which were prevalent in Dead Reign articles within The Rifter. While these concepts were taken out of the game before it was released to the public, my beliefs about the game entail a combination of what's in the original pre-release articles in Issues #40 and #45 and the actual released RPG, its sourcebooks, and its post-release magazine articles. So if you references those issues, they discussed military relocations using what was left of the United States Air Force to evacuate anywhere from 3,000 to 300,000 refugees to Alaska, depending on which issue you referenced. I tend to add a little twist to it by adding side operations and other things to introduce more flavor to my theoretical campaign. :-)

Anyway, please take care; thanks a bunch, and have a good day.

whassupman03 :mrgreen:

Posted: **Mon Jun 08, 2015 3:52 pm**

Yeah that many refugees would make the main 2 cities into over-crowded cesspools until the first winter then there would be a culling.

Posted: **Mon Jun 08, 2015 5:22 pm**

SittingBull wrote:Alaska would, most likely, already have all the people that are going ever be there. Aside from a small percentage who might arrive there by boat or air, unless the military starts FED EXing people there of course. Most people from the US would not be up for making the trek up through Canada and into Alaska.

Many from the north west border states would as they would have only low populated areas to travel through . And people will eventually be thinking long term survival .

Posted: **Mon Jun 08, 2015 6:47 pm**

Many wouldn't survive the trip or the elements.

Posted: **Tue Jun 09, 2015 12:13 am**

SittingBull wrote:Many wouldn't survive the trip or the elements.

Assuming they travel on foot . But that's doubtful . Anyone who makes that trip is likely to have some means of transportation and that would not be as hard to come by in the early days and not impossible even later . But even on foot many have traveled farther and in worse conditions without roads . Namely the early pioneers .

Posted: **Tue Jun 09, 2015 2:20 am**

True but the pioneers didn't live as soft as many people do in modern days.

Posted: **Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:59 pm**

Gee only one person mentions it. Steep mountains, low population density. OR low population density and a large flat area. And large periods of deep cold. OR an island with low population density man eating (potential zombie eating) bears, deep cold. Flat top in Anchorage, AK would be a great place to build a small fortress. There are several old nike silos in the mountains. Fairbanks is a large flat area surrounded by high mountains. Kodiak is the largest Alaskan Island and is twice the size of the big Island of Hawaii. If zombies do make shore fall by walking across the bottom of turn again or cook inlets they'll be very slow from the near freezing water and likely ripped apart by bore tides on the rocks or stuck in silt and eventual burried. If your playing a game where the military is usefull there is Elmendorf and fort Richardson next to Anchorage and Eilson and Ft. Way right in Fairbanks. If ya wanna play a game where a train is a mobile haven there is a lot of track and if your first engine is a modified snow remover you shouldn't have an issue with things getting on the tracks.

Posted: **Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:41 pm**

Zer0 Kay wrote:Gee only one person mentions it. Steep mountains, low population density. OR low population density and a large flat area. And large periods of deep cold. OR an island with low population density man eating (potential zombie eating) bears, deep cold. Flat top in Anchorage, AK would be a great place to build a small fortress. There are several old nike silos in the mountains. Fairbanks is a large flat area surrounded by high mountains. Kodiak is the largest Alaskan Island and is twice the size of the big Island of Hawaii. If zombies do make shore fall by walking across the bottom of turn again or cook inlets they'll be very slow from the near freezing water and likely ripped apart by bore tides on the rocks or stuck in silt and eventual burried. If your playing a game where the military is usefull there is Elmendorf and fort Richardson next to Anchorage and Eilson and Ft. Way right in Fairbanks. If ya wanna play a game where a train is a mobile haven there is a lot of track and if your first engine is a modified snow remover you shouldn't have an issue with things getting on the tracks.

Do DR zombies just go ocean bottom walking without a reason?

Posted: **Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:48 am**

Hello...

SittingBull wrote:Yeah that many refugees would make the main 2 cities into over-crowded cesspools until the first winter then there would be a culling.

That's why I would spread the refugees all across Alaska, using numerous small towns as well as abandoned military bases and airfields, whether they are on the mainland or in the Aleutians. Large cities like Anchorage and Fairbanks probably couldn't be inhabited right away because of the zombie population there, and if I am correct to say this, zombies in the game tend to tolerate cold temperatures better than in some creative literature. So there could still be a substantial zombie population, which could probably radiate around the larger towns and cities.

SittingBull wrote:Many wouldn't survive the trip or the elements.

Failure to survive the trip or the elements would depend not just on the skillsets available to the survivors but also on the resources available during the trip. While I agree that people may not be as tough as the old pioneers, they would have access to plenty of mitigators to help them survive the trip. Various things such as transportation, salvaged supplies, weapons, and other things can help when they are conducting an overland or a sea voyage to the Alaska Freehold, and in a way even skills and knowledge are as well. And if they have assistance from surviving military assets, they would have an escort as well.

Zer0 Kay wrote:Gee only one person mentions it. Steep mountains, low population density. OR low population density and a large flat area. And large periods of deep cold. OR an island with low population density man eating (potential zombie eating) bears, deep cold. Flat top in Anchorage, AK would be a great place to build a small fortress. There are several old nike silos in the mountains. Fairbanks is a large flat area surrounded by high mountains. Kodiak is the largest Alaskan Island and is twice the size of the big Island of Hawaii. If zombies do make shore fall by walking across the bottom of turn again or cook inlets they'll be very slow from the near freezing water and likely ripped apart by bore tides on the rocks or stuck in silt and eventual burried. If your playing a game where the military is usefull there is Elmendorf and fort Richardson next to Anchorage and Eilson and Ft. Way right in Fairbanks. If ya wanna play a game where a train is a mobile haven there is a lot of track and if your first engine is a modified snow remover you shouldn't have an issue with things getting on the tracks.

I agree that there may be a low population density in Alaska. But if the cities are home to large numbers of people, the zombie population may predominately be concentrated around the city limits. Otherwise, I tend to agree with a lot of other things you said as well. Personally I would like to see where you got some of your information about the Nike missile silos. Underground bunkers like that may be helpful, along with other sites like the old DEW line.

SittingBull wrote:Do DR zombies just go ocean bottom walking without a reason?

My personal belief is that there is usually a reason for ocean bottom migration. Nourishment through life force or the lack thereof can spark a ocean bottom voyage, or it could just be because they are stupid. Remember, there is no such thing as doing nothing. Essentially, when you're sitting down "doing nothing" as some people would say and someone asks you what you are doing, you're not "doing nothing," you're sitting in a chair! :wink:

Like Spock would say, and I paraphrase when I say this, if all other answers are not true, the only alternative, no matter how unlikely or unusual, must be the answer. Conclusively, please take care; thanks a bunch, and have a good day.

whassupman03 :mrgreen:

Posted: **Wed Jun 10, 2015 2:34 pm**

Gamer wrote:I saw a sign that said trespassers will be shot, survivors will be shot again.

Trespassers will be shot, survivors will be violated.

Posted: **Wed Jun 10, 2015 2:39 pm**

Got my info from living there. The silos are in the mountains, mostly purchased by an ANRC. There are also bunkers for rack launched Nike missile at Kincade park. But I've been told those were all cemented and at now just used as storage sheds.

Posted: **Wed Jun 10, 2015 2:43 pm**

Yeah anchorage would be the worst. 500,000 population in AK and 250,000 live in Anchorage.

Posted: **Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:02 pm**

whassupman03 wrote:Hello...

SittingBull wrote:Yeah that many refugees would make the main 2 cities into over-crowded cesspools until the first winter then there would be a culling.

That's why I would spread the refugees all across Alaska, using numerous small towns as well as abandoned military bases and airfields, whether they are on the mainland or in the Aleutians. Large cities like Anchorage and Fairbanks probably couldn't be inhabited right away because of the zombie population there, and if I am correct to say this, zombies in the game tend to tolerate cold temperatures better than in some creative literature. So there could still be a substantial zombie population, which could probably radiate around the larger towns and cities.

SittingBull wrote:Many wouldn't survive the trip or the elements.

Failure to survive the trip or the elements would depend not just on the skillsets available to the survivors but also on the resources available during the trip. While I agree that people may not be as tough as the old pioneers, they would have access to plenty of mitigators to help them survive the trip. Various things such as transportation, salvaged supplies, weapons, and other things can help when they are conducting an overland or a sea voyage to the Alaska Freehold, and in a way even skills and knowledge are as well. And if they have assistance from surviving military assets, they would have an escort as well.

Zer0 Kay wrote:Gee only one person mentions it. Steep mountains, low population density. OR low population density and a large flat area. And large periods of deep cold. OR an island with low population density man eating (potential zombie eating) bears, deep cold. Flat top in Anchorage, AK would be a great place to build a small fortress. There are several old nike silos in the mountains. Fairbanks is a large flat area surrounded by high mountains. Kodiak is the largest Alaskan Island and is twice the size of the big Island of Hawaii. If zombies do make shore fall by walking across the bottom of turn again or cook inlets they'll be very slow from the near freezing water and likely ripped apart by bore tides on the rocks or stuck in silt and eventual burried. If your playing a game where the military is usefull there is Elmendorf and fort Richardson next to Anchorage and Eilson and Ft. Way right in Fairbanks. If ya wanna play a game where a train is a mobile haven there is a lot of track and if your first engine is a modified snow remover you shouldn't have an issue with things getting on the tracks.

I agree that there may be a low population density in Alaska. But if the cities are home to large numbers of people, the zombie population may predominately be concentrated around the city limits. Otherwise, I tend to agree with a lot of other things you said as well. Personally I would like to see where you got some of your information about the Nike missile silos. Underground bunkers like that may be helpful, along with other sites like the old DEW line.

SittingBull wrote:Do DR zombies just go ocean bottom walking without a reason?

My personal belief is that there is usually a reason for ocean bottom migration. Nourishment through life force or the lack thereof can spark a ocean bottom voyage, or it could just be because they are stupid. Remember, there is no such thing as doing nothing. Essentially, when you're sitting down "doing nothing" as some people would say and someone asks you what you are doing, you're not "doing nothing," you're sitting in a chair! Like Spock would say, and I paraphrase when I say this, if all other answers are not true, the only alternative, no matter how unlikely or unusual, must be the answer. Conclusively, please take care; thanks a bunch, and have a good day.

whassupman03

But DR zombies will, with no targets or stimuli, shut down until they hear or sense something.

\m/_ -.- _\m/

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2015 2:10 pm**

whassupman03 wrote:Hello...

Trent wrote:May be useful : http://www.airfields-freeman.com/CO/Airfields_CO.htm , http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ ... y-bunkers/ ,

Trent wrote:http://www.missilebases.com/#!nike-indiana/c1aq8

Nice! In addition, I will present this directory of Wikipedia pages involving bases in the United States. The directory covers all branches of the military, and while incomplete it is still quite comprehensive. So I implore you take a look, even if it is Wikipedia...

Military installations of the United States by state

...Anyway, I thought it would be useful for this thread. Even so, this next one is much less comprehensive, but still useful...

Closed military facilities of the United States in the United States

...Hopefully those are useful enough. Please take care; thanks a bunch, and have a good day.

whassupman03

Your right its a horrible list.

For AK they have Elmendorf AFB and they have JBER but they don't have Fort Richardson... Which would just be bad and not horrible but. JBER is Joint Base Elmendorf Richardson. So either they never had Ft Rich or they removed it when they put on JBER but didn't remove Elmo, a screw up either way it's looked at.

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2015 2:12 pm**

SittingBull wrote:
whassupman03 wrote:Hello...

SittingBull wrote:Yeah that many refugees would make the main 2 cities into over-crowded cesspools until the first winter then there would be a culling.

That's why I would spread the refugees all across Alaska, using numerous small towns as well as abandoned military bases and airfields, whether they are on the mainland or in the Aleutians. Large cities like Anchorage and Fairbanks probably couldn't be inhabited right away because of the zombie population there, and if I am correct to say this, zombies in the game tend to tolerate cold temperatures better than in some creative literature. So there could still be a substantial zombie population, which could probably radiate around the larger towns and cities.

SittingBull wrote:Many wouldn't survive the trip or the elements.

Failure to survive the trip or the elements would depend not just on the skillsets available to the survivors but also on the resources available during the trip. While I agree that people may not be as tough as the old pioneers, they would have access to plenty of mitigators to help them survive the trip. Various things such as transportation, salvaged supplies, weapons, and other things can help when they are conducting an overland or a sea voyage to the Alaska Freehold, and in a way even skills and knowledge are as well. And if they have assistance from surviving military assets, they would have an escort as well.

Zer0 Kay wrote:Gee only one person mentions it. Steep mountains, low population density. OR low population density and a large flat area. And large periods of deep cold. OR an island with low population density man eating (potential zombie eating) bears, deep cold. Flat top in Anchorage, AK would be a great place to build a small fortress. There are several old nike silos in the mountains. Fairbanks is a large flat area surrounded by high mountains. Kodiak is the largest Alaskan Island and is twice the size of the big Island of Hawaii. If zombies do make shore fall by walking across the bottom of turn again or cook inlets they'll be very slow from the near freezing water and likely ripped apart by bore tides on the rocks or stuck in silt and eventual burried. If your playing a game where the military is usefull there is Elmendorf and fort Richardson next to Anchorage and Eilson and Ft. Way right in Fairbanks. If ya wanna play a game where a train is a mobile haven there is a lot of track and if your first engine is a modified snow remover you shouldn't have an issue with things getting on the tracks.

I agree that there may be a low population density in Alaska. But if the cities are home to large numbers of people, the zombie population may predominately be concentrated around the city limits. Otherwise, I tend to agree with a lot of other things you said as well. Personally I would like to see where you got some of your information about the Nike missile silos. Underground bunkers like that may be helpful, along with other sites like the old DEW line.

SittingBull wrote:Do DR zombies just go ocean bottom walking without a reason?

My personal belief is that there is usually a reason for ocean bottom migration. Nourishment through life force or the lack thereof can spark a ocean bottom voyage, or it could just be because they are stupid. Remember, there is no such thing as doing nothing. Essentially, when you're sitting down "doing nothing" as some people would say and someone asks you what you are doing, you're not "doing nothing," you're sitting in a chair! Like Spock would say, and I paraphrase when I say this, if all other answers are not true, the only alternative, no matter how unlikely or unusual, must be the answer. Conclusively, please take care; thanks a bunch, and have a good day.

whassupman03

But DR zombies will, with no targets or stimuli, shut down until they hear or sense something.

\m/_ -.- _\m/

The FdEW line is just large radar antennas and shelters, defense by aircraft interception not defensible.

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2015 2:16 pm**

whassupman03 wrote:Hello...

Oberoth wrote:Alberta, Canada. Lots of forest and mountain ranges nearby. I would probably head for the Rocky Mountains.

If I had to guess ten states it would be these.

Alaska, Montana, Washington, Idaho, North Dakota, Minnesota, Michigan, Oregon, Main, Wisconsin.

Mainly chosen for their high Latitudes where cold winters can give an edge against the undead.

I've been hoping to visit this thread, and I like the way it sounds. Anyway, I would agree with you Oberoth - the Rocky Mountains would be a worthy place to hole up. From my foggy memory, I seem to remember in the novel World War Z that the Rocky Mountains, also known as the "Rocky Line" was used as a sort of safe haven and possibly a sort of Maginot Line-style barrier until the rest of the country was taken back. Personally, I'm not sure about how this was really implemented, but if someone can clarify, I would appreciate it. Mentioning the Rocky Mountains also brings up another point - that other mountain ranges may be useful places to hole up as well. For example, the Allegheny Mountains would be a useful place to set up a safe haven, and somewhere in the Dead Reign books it was stated that somewhere around one of America's eastern mountain ranges large survivalist groups there have acquired vintage M48A3 main battle tanks to defend it. But really, that is what I can remember. So anyway, please take care; thanks a bunch, and have a good day.

whassupman03

Where'd they find the Pattons to defend it? Most Pattons were demilled, that be like claiming you could get ahold of a bunch of F-14s.

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:56 pm**

Tanks, unless fighting over humans, are mostly bragging rights in Dead Reign unless in the extreme emergency where its time to make zombie pancakes.

\m/_ -.- _\m/

Posted: **Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:43 am**

Hello...

Zer0 Kay wrote:Where'd they find the Pattons to defend it? Most Pattons were demilled, that be like claiming you could get ahold of a bunch of F-14s.

Such is noted in the core rulebook of Dead Reign, under the vehicles section I think; they were discussing other armored vehicles and the authors mentioned this as a little tidbit of canon. Of course I would have done it differently, since supplying them with ammunition would be a problem, because let's face it, we haven't used 90mm tank gun ammunition for decades. I would have tried to use M60 Patton MBTs if I could have gotten hold of them, since they use 105mm guns that ammunition and spare parts are still available for (Especially since some of our Strykers use a weapon that's virtually identical to the one in the M60 Patton...). Theoretically, I could take a battle-damaged Stryker with a 105mm gun, remove the gun, and somehow put it in the Patton (Bonus points go to the survivor band who can turn a M48A3 into a M48A5, which does have a 105mm gun... :mrgreen:

). Replace a number of other systems with what can be made available and you can possibly have a working MBT, albeit one that may be makeshift and jury-rigged.

SittingBull wrote:Tanks, unless fighting over humans, are mostly bragging rights in Dead Reign unless in the extreme emergency where its time to make zombie pancakes.

\m/_ -.- _\m/

Agreed, since unless you can get a lot of canister ammunition ala World War Z they would have been better used for combat against human opponents that use modern firepower and battle tactics. Canister ammunition is basically a giant shotshell, so that can likely make a tank gun viably useful against zombies. However, if I can turn a M48A3 into a M67 Zippo (Which is the one with the almighty flamethrower...

), I can bring M48A3-esque firepower to the battlefield to fry up some zombie fritters. :twisted:

Please take care; thanks a bunch, and have a good day.

whassupman03

Posted: **Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:02 pm**

Still, its more likely to get ahold of an operational M1 or Stryker than a Patton

Posted: **Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:07 pm**

SittingBull wrote:Yeah that many refugees would make the main 2 cities into over-crowded cesspools until the first winter then there would be a culling.

Which two main cities?

Posted: **Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:54 pm**

Anchorage and Fairbanks largest but there is also Jeuno (so three, excuse me).

Posted: **Wed Jun 17, 2015 9:38 am**

Hello...

SittingBull wrote:Anchorage and Fairbanks largest but there is also Jeuno (so three, excuse me).

Ah Juneau... a city that holds the seat of the state government and lies on the Alaskan Panhandle. Ironically the city doesn't hold as many people as Anchorage (Which is around 300,000...), but rather has a population closer to that of Fairbanks in size (...with a population of around 30,000). Juneau is another city to worry about, but it may have some advantages. First, the city has extensive airport and seaport facilities, which can make it a great stopover point to the mainland and the Aleutians if it can be taken intact. Second, the Juneau area is extremely large, with an area around the size of Connecticut when you count the borough as well. Third, the city is home to a number of fishing fleets, so they would have both a food source and a method of seaborne transportation if necessary (Not to mention that the University of Alaska has been working on ways to make biodiesel from fish oil, in which Alaska has a lot! :-)

). Last but not least, there are other natural resources as well, which are not limited to the mines in the Admiralty Mining District, so you can not only start mining for various metals, but restart industry here as well with what is available. But anyway, please take care; thanks a bunch, and have a good day.

whassupman03 :mrgreen:

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