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Dog_O_War wrote:

flatline wrote:Let me restate: the rules in the books are suggestions. MY own rules, which may or may not coincide with the book rules, are consistently and rigorously applied.

The players know the rules because they were clearly established at the beginning of the campaign, often by consensus.

--flatline

That is more concrete, but still doesn't sound completely solid. Yet, I have the feeling that you have covered all your bases.

Meh, it's all hypothetical at this point. I don't currently have a group and if I start or join one in the near future, it'll probably be some other system anyways.

But historically speaking, what I posted accurately describes how things worked when I had an active group.

--flatline

If someone is argumentative get them to sign up to the forums.

There are plenty of occasions where he can vent his argumentativeness over pointless trivia.

Then he can play in your game all beaten and broken by our peers and too timid to try nothing in game.

Alrik Vas wrote:I am both eager and terrified to know what sort of rules you follow, Flatline.

No one talks about flatclub.

The Dark Elf wrote:If someone is argumentative get them to sign up to the forums.

There are plenty of occasions where he can vent his argumentativeness over pointless trivia.

Then he can play in your game all beaten and broken by our peers and too timid to try nothing in game.

Love it!

A second player from the first person's social circle joined and she's argumentative as well. They have a game (different system) on another night that I joined, and this weekend an argument broke out at that game. When I protested that we shouldn't argue with the GM, someone flat out said "It's okay to argue with the GM." It took all my willpower to keep my face neutral.

So my next game, I'm going to preface it to everyone there that while I'm learning that different tables have different rules of conduct, for my table arguing with the GM is not allowed, though politely disagreeing if backed up with some type of fact is allowed. We'll see if addressing it directly fixes the problem.

If people are arguing, it likely means they want stuff. This is a good thing because often people, once they talk about they want, can reach a compromise. And are excited about the game because they are getting atleast some of what they wanted to begin with.

Just ceasing arguing with the GM doesn't help with that.

To the OP I would say that if you decide he must roll the skill then he must roll the skill. People who know things make wrong judgements on things all the time. Maybe he makes a wrong judgement when decided how fresh the prints are.

As for the HF again if you rule everyone must roll then they must roll. If he failed then you tell him what is going on. If he doesn't comply you handle the situation how you see fit. Loses an action, fudge a damage roll so he takes more, or whatever.

Skidrifter wrote:And for those unfamiliar with the analogy, the willow tree bends but does not break (give in).

It can be called "de escalation of conflict" nearly always a better path than continuous bluff calling and escalation where people get backed into emotional corners and dig in to their position.

That method does not work on all personality types...
In fact it tends to just honk them off more.
To that personality it implies that you don't take their concerns seriously.

Panomas wrote:

Damian Magecraft wrote:

Skidrifter wrote:And for those unfamiliar with the analogy, the willow tree bends but does not break (give in).

It can be called "de escalation of conflict" nearly always a better path than continuous bluff calling and escalation where people get backed into emotional corners and dig in to their position.

That method does not work on all personality types...
In fact it tends to just honk them off more.
To that personality it implies that you don't take their concerns seriously.

That's funny I thought the statement meant he does take concerns seriously...

Never dealt with a phone agent using the "cares" method?
They could care less about your problem they just want you off their phone.

How to deal with an argumentative player - do anything but argue with them!

(yes I know thats not really how to but a how not to...