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Akashic Soldier wrote:Regardless of whether or not they are S.D.C. beings before puberty, they are always supernatural creatures and therefor cannot get magic tattoos. If someone tries to tattoo them, they'll die.

As for them being born with other traits, nope. They're Sea Titans.

Why would they die?

Where iss there any indication that a magic tattoo is deadly to an unsuitable recipient rather than simply ineffective?

All game things are GM calls, we have to do our best to reach solutions on what canon is without that. Even if it came out before Underseas, the Underseas book has references to Atlantis (there are Kittani vehicles, a Splugorth Slaveship, etc.) so if there were restrictions on the Sea Titans, they'd probably be mentioned.

You're absolutely right Tor, and quite often I'm wearing my "GM hat" when I think about these things. I, personally, chalk the lack of mention of any restrictions up to the possibility that Kevin didn't reread his own work (he does have a lot going on) or that he may have simply not thought about, or as Silvnanathas said he left it open so we Gm's would be free to decide what WE think.
In my persona as GM I don't do the Sea Titans and tattoos and I have it that Sea Titan genetics overwhelm even the Atlanteans tinkering with the Amazons. A for what is human in Palladium and Rifts, if it says they're human, like it does for Atlanteans, Lemurians, and many other races I accept it. I do, however draw the line at clearly non-human species such as the Naga being able to breed with anything other than their own kind, but again that's me wearing my "GM hat". The "no halfbreeds" rule made sense from a strict scientific standpoint, as IRL only spoecies that are closely related to one another can produce offpsring, but in certain cases, like a horse and a donkey, a sterile crossbreed is produced, so on in those special cases I declare that the offspring is sterile and cannot reproduce.

keir451 wrote:

Rifts Underseas p.113 "Strangest of all, they always pass their superhuman abilities and apparent immortality to their offspring even if one of the parents is an ordinary human. Furthermore, the offspring inherit ALL their parent's abilities, exhibiting an extremely consistent pattern of abilities.

Now, IMO, what that means is that if a Sea Titan were to have children with any other HUMAN (or other genetically compatible race, like the Kirn from Manhunter) species then the child would inherit ALL the parent's (yes that's PLURAL) abilities.

Actually that is singular belonging/possessive, not plural. Plural would be without an apostrophe, and plural possessive/belonging would be written as " parents' " with the apostrophe coming after the "s" (and while not technically correct to most you could use " Parents's " for plural possessive, and it will be accepted as such, but be consistent, dont mix and match uses).

In this case it is clear that the statement is referring only to the abilities of the one parent, namely the Sea Titan. Which, to me reads as overwriting all other abilities.

Now if you will excuse me I actually feel kinda dirty, I need to go wash (I am not normally a grammar nazi, but in this case I made an exception, as there are several arguments being based on this usage).

Cant say much more the Da Wufl is correct.

13eowulf wrote:

keir451 wrote:

Rifts Underseas p.113 "Strangest of all, they always pass their superhuman abilities and apparent immortality to their offspring even if one of the parents is an ordinary human. Furthermore, the offspring inherit ALL their parent's abilities, exhibiting an extremely consistent pattern of abilities.

Now, IMO, what that means is that if a Sea Titan were to have children with any other HUMAN (or other genetically compatible race, like the Kirn from Manhunter) species then the child would inherit ALL the parent's (yes that's PLURAL) abilities.

Actually that is singular belonging/possessive, not plural. Plural would be without an apostrophe, and plural possessive/belonging would be written as " parents' " with the apostrophe coming after the "s" (and while not technically correct to most you could use " Parents's " for plural possessive, and it will be accepted as such, but be consistent, dont mix and match uses).

In this case it is clear that the statement is referring only to the abilities of the one parent, namely the Sea Titan. Which, to me reads as overwriting all other abilities.

Now if you will excuse me I actually feel kinda dirty, I need to go wash (I am not normally a grammar nazi, but in this case I made an exception, as there are several arguments being based on this usage).

Ooops!! How the heck did I miss that? I even checked it out and you're right. So what that means is that the Sea Titan parent will always pass theri abilites on to their child. So if TWO Sea Titans have children together then wouldn't the child inherit the abilites of BOTH parents? (Proper plural this time )

What the text means is that if two ST's as the parents or even one ST parent of the child, then that child will be a sea titan.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:What the text means is that if two ST's as the parents or even one ST parent of the child, then that child will be a sea titan.

Yes, THAT part comes through quite clear, BUT the child also inherits the parent's abilities, such as psychic powers, as well. So, do we assume the child inherits the abilities of just ONE Sea Titan parent or BOTH Sea Titan parents. I would think the child would inheret any and all psychic abilities according to power level (assuming of course that there is even such a thing as genetic dominance of psychic powers). For example; If one parent was a Master psi and the other was Minor psi, then the child would be a master psi, but also displaying the other parent's psychic abilites as part of the Master psi power selection.

keir451 wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:What the text means is that if two ST's as the parents or even one ST parent of the child, then that child will be a sea titan.

Yes, THAT part comes through quite clear, BUT the child also inherits the parent's abilities, such as psychic powers, as well. So, do we assume the child inherits the abilities of just ONE Sea Titan parent or BOTH Sea Titan parents. I would think the child would inheret any and all psychic abilities according to power level (assuming of course that there is even such a thing as genetic dominance of psychic powers). For example; If one parent was a Master psi and the other was Minor psi, then the child would be a master psi, but also displaying the other parent's psychic abilites as part of the Master psi power selection.

Or they could have no psychic powers at all, depending what they roll on the table.
Psychic powers aren't hereditary.

keir451 wrote:

All game things are GM calls, we have to do our best to reach solutions on what canon is without that. Even if it came out before Underseas, the Underseas book has references to Atlantis (there are Kittani vehicles, a Splugorth Slaveship, etc.) so if there were restrictions on the Sea Titans, they'd probably be mentioned.

You're absolutely right Tor, and quite often I'm wearing my "GM hat" when I think about these things. I, personally, chalk the lack of mention of any restrictions up to the possibility that Kevin didn't reread his own work (he does have a lot going on) or that he may have simply not thought about, or as Silvnanathas said he left it open so we Gm's would be free to decide what WE think.
In my persona as GM I don't do the Sea Titans and tattoos and I have it that Sea Titan genetics overwhelm even the Atlanteans tinkering with the Amazons. A for what is human in Palladium and Rifts, if it says they're human, like it does for Atlanteans, Lemurians, and many other races I accept it. I do, however draw the line at clearly non-human species such as the Naga being able to breed with anything other than their own kind, but again that's me wearing my "GM hat". The "no halfbreeds" rule made sense from a strict scientific standpoint, as IRL only spoecies that are closely related to one another can produce offpsring, but in certain cases, like a horse and a donkey, a sterile crossbreed is produced, so on in those special cases I declare that the offspring is sterile and cannot reproduce.

Fun fact: not all donkeys and jennies are sterile.

keir451 wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:What the text means is that if two ST's as the parents or even one ST parent of the child, then that child will be a sea titan.

Yes, THAT part comes through quite clear, BUT the child also inherits the parent's abilities, such as psychic powers, as well. So, do we assume the child inherits the abilities of just ONE Sea Titan parent or BOTH Sea Titan parents. I would think the child would inheret any and all psychic abilities according to power level (assuming of course that there is even such a thing as genetic dominance of psychic powers). For example; If one parent was a Master psi and the other was Minor psi, then the child would be a master psi, but also displaying the other parent's psychic abilites as part of the Master psi power selection.

Keir, I have seen you reference something like this a few times. Where the offspring would fully inherit the traits of both parents. Where are you getting this from?

It would make sense to me that a child born of two psychic parents would have a higher incidence of developing psychic powers than a child born to two non-psychic parents. However this is not ever described and layed out in the books. The roll for psychic powers is static, parentage has nothing to do with it. And they deffinately don't acuire all of both parents psychic abilities. If that was the case why not just say "my parents were both 10th level Mind Melters so I have all the abilities of both and start with two 10th level mind melters worth of psychic powers". Even my interpretation higher incedence would be to adjust the chart to have a higher % chance to have powers at all or suggest the character choose a Psychic class (same as parents or not), not give them all the powers of both parents.

Aslo mentioned previous that an offspring of a ST and a god would get all the ST abilities and Defic powers. Gods do not pass on Defic powers ever (GM fiat only perhaps). Godlings and Demi-gods (spawned by god and mortal) do not get defic powers.

Clearly if Sea Titan abilities trump everyone, then Sea Titan + God = Sea Titan, with not an ounce of Demigod.

keir451 wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:What the text means is that if two ST's as the parents or even one ST parent of the child, then that child will be a sea titan.

Yes, THAT part comes through quite clear, BUT the child also inherits the parent's abilities, such as psychic powers, as well. So, do we assume the child inherits the abilities of just ONE Sea Titan parent or BOTH Sea Titan parents. I would think the child would inherit any and all psychic abilities according to power level (assuming of course that there is even such a thing as genetic dominance of psychic powers). For example; If one parent was a Master psi and the other was Minor psi, then the child would be a master psi, but also displaying the other parent's psychic abilities as part of the Master psi power selection.

And that section of the text is talking about inheriting the Sea Titan powers. Since that is all that is being talked about, that is all that gets inherited.

42dragon wrote:

keir451 wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:What the text means is that if two ST's as the parents or even one ST parent of the child, then that child will be a sea titan.

Yes, THAT part comes through quite clear, BUT the child also inherits the parent's abilities, such as psychic powers, as well. So, do we assume the child inherits the abilities of just ONE Sea Titan parent or BOTH Sea Titan parents. I would think the child would inheret any and all psychic abilities according to power level (assuming of course that there is even such a thing as genetic dominance of psychic powers). For example; If one parent was a Master psi and the other was Minor psi, then the child would be a master psi, but also displaying the other parent's psychic abilites as part of the Master psi power selection.

Keir, I have seen you reference something like this a few times. Where the offspring would fully inherit the traits of both parents. Where are you getting this from?

It would make sense to me that a child born of two psychic parents would have a higher incidence of developing psychic powers than a child born to two non-psychic parents. However this is not ever described and layed out in the books. The roll for psychic powers is static, parentage has nothing to do with it. And they deffinately don't acuire all of both parents psychic abilities. If that was the case why not just say "my parents were both 10th level Mind Melters so I have all the abilities of both and start with two 10th level mind melters worth of psychic powers". Even my interpretation higher incedence would be to adjust the chart to have a higher % chance to have powers at all or suggest the character choose a Psychic class (same as parents or not), not give them all the powers of both parents.

Aslo mentioned previous that an offspring of a ST and a god would get all the ST abilities and Defic powers. Gods do not pass on Defic powers ever (GM fiat only perhaps). Godlings and Demi-gods (spawned by god and mortal) do not get defic powers.

I'm getting it from the book, the book says that "Futhermore, the offspring inheret ALL their parent's abilities, exhibiting an extremely consistant pattern of abilities." What this says to me is that if one parent is a Sea Titan with Master Level psionics then that offspring will also be a Sea Titan with Master level psionics (starting at level one of course).
Regarding the section of "deific powers", I think that perhaps the Gods DO pass on a portion of their powers to their offspring, that's what makes the offspring so extra-ordinary. Look at Herakles (or Hercules if you prefer) his mother was normal human woman, yet HE is gifted with greater than human strength as the son of Zeus. So MY thought was that the Sea Titan Godling might get some of the abilities of the Deific parent. Yes the word used is parent's not parents' but what if both parents are Sea Titans and psychics, what then? Wouldn't the offspring inheret the abilities of BOTH parents?

keir451 wrote:

42dragon wrote:

keir451 wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:What the text means is that if two ST's as the parents or even one ST parent of the child, then that child will be a sea titan.

Yes, THAT part comes through quite clear, BUT the child also inherits the parent's abilities, such as psychic powers, as well. So, do we assume the child inherits the abilities of just ONE Sea Titan parent or BOTH Sea Titan parents. I would think the child would inheret any and all psychic abilities according to power level (assuming of course that there is even such a thing as genetic dominance of psychic powers). For example; If one parent was a Master psi and the other was Minor psi, then the child would be a master psi, but also displaying the other parent's psychic abilites as part of the Master psi power selection.

Keir, I have seen you reference something like this a few times. Where the offspring would fully inherit the traits of both parents. Where are you getting this from?

It would make sense to me that a child born of two psychic parents would have a higher incidence of developing psychic powers than a child born to two non-psychic parents. However this is not ever described and layed out in the books. The roll for psychic powers is static, parentage has nothing to do with it. And they deffinately don't acuire all of both parents psychic abilities. If that was the case why not just say "my parents were both 10th level Mind Melters so I have all the abilities of both and start with two 10th level mind melters worth of psychic powers". Even my interpretation higher incedence would be to adjust the chart to have a higher % chance to have powers at all or suggest the character choose a Psychic class (same as parents or not), not give them all the powers of both parents.

Aslo mentioned previous that an offspring of a ST and a god would get all the ST abilities and Defic powers. Gods do not pass on Defic powers ever (GM fiat only perhaps). Godlings and Demi-gods (spawned by god and mortal) do not get defic powers.

I'm getting it from the book, the book says that "Futhermore, the offspring inheret ALL their parent's abilities, exhibiting an extremely consistant pattern of abilities." What this says to me is that if one parent is a Sea Titan with Master Level psionics then that offspring will also be a Sea Titan with Master level psionics (starting at level one of course).
Regarding the section of "deific powers", I think that perhaps the Gods DO pass on a portion of their powers to their offspring, that's what makes the offspring so extra-ordinary. Look at Herakles (or Hercules if you prefer) his mother was normal human woman, yet HE is gifted with greater than human strength as the son of Zeus. So MY thought was that the Sea Titan Godling might get some of the abilities of the Deific parent. Yes the word used is parent's not parents' but what if both parents are Sea Titans and psychics, what then? Wouldn't the offspring inheret the abilities of BOTH parents?

The non-powered normal human-centric focus for races and classes like these is probably one of the biggest headaches around, none of the material seems to be written to properly handle cases like these where you end up dealing with traits that should end up combining but the rules aren't set up to handle them or deal with conflicts where two sets of traits insist that only they should be dominant and not the other.

I think the implication is racial abilities and not psychic ones. STs have a higher chance of psionics but since they don't all have it, it's not much of a racial ability, so much as a correlation, like cobblerhood.

Besides, psionics are OCCs now, can't pass on training, it isn't Dune. Well, except for dragons and their weird spells they spontaneously know at adulthood.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

keir451 wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:What the text means is that if two ST's as the parents or even one ST parent of the child, then that child will be a sea titan.

Yes, THAT part comes through quite clear, BUT the child also inherits the parent's abilities, such as psychic powers, as well. So, do we assume the child inherits the abilities of just ONE Sea Titan parent or BOTH Sea Titan parents. I would think the child would inherit any and all psychic abilities according to power level (assuming of course that there is even such a thing as genetic dominance of psychic powers). For example; If one parent was a Master psi and the other was Minor psi, then the child would be a master psi, but also displaying the other parent's psychic abilities as part of the Master psi power selection.

And that section of the text is talking about inheriting the Sea Titan powers. Since that is all that is being talked about, that is all that gets inherited.

The Sea Titan powers include more tha just being effectively immortal, having an MDC body, etc., they also include a greater chance to have psychic abilities. So if a Sea Titan that has psionics has children then, since those ARE Sea Titan abilites as well, the offspring would inherit those as well. Also it seems that psionic ability IS inherited especially in the case of Dog Boys as ALL Dog Boys , whether Feral or CS, have psionics of some sort. It's just that the concept of genetic inheritance is not really touched upon in Rifts, so I have to "think outside the box" with the given information and conclude that SOME abilities are passed on from parent to child just as traits are passed on in real life.

Tor wrote:I think the implication is racial abilities and not psychic ones. STs have a higher chance of psionics but since they don't all have it, it's not much of a racial ability, so much as a correlation, like cobblerhood.

Besides, psionics are OCCs now, can't pass on training, it isn't Dune. Well, except for dragons and their weird spells they spontaneously know at adulthood.

Yet ALL Sea Titans are twice as likely to have psionics so that implies that it IS a racial ability as Sea Titans ARE a seperate and distinct subrace of human. So following that track that implies that psionics (or at least psionic potential in some cases) ARE an inheritable trait. If they weren't then the "psychic races" that regularly develop a consistant set of psionic abilities would not develop said abilites.
Yes the book list previous psionic R.C.C.s as O.C.C.s now, but that really is incorrect as you cannot train psionics into someone (as in you cannot train someone to HAVE psionics, they either have psionics or they don't). The base ability has to be there first THEN you train that person (or persons) HOW to use their ability effectively. Look at Dog Boys, their psionic potential is innate and present in ALL of them, yet they have to be TRAINED in how to use those psionics properly.
And actually you CAN "pass on" training, you just train someone else in your job set. It's just that job skills/knowledge cannot be inherited, they have to be learned.

keir451 wrote:

Tor wrote:I think the implication is racial abilities and not psychic ones. STs have a higher chance of psionics but since they don't all have it, it's not much of a racial ability, so much as a correlation, like cobblerhood.

Besides, psionics are OCCs now, can't pass on training, it isn't Dune. Well, except for dragons and their weird spells they spontaneously know at adulthood.

Yet ALL Sea Titans are twice as likely to have psionics so that implies that it IS a racial ability as Sea Titans ARE a seperate and distinct subrace of human. So following that track that implies that psionics (or at least psionic potential in some cases) ARE an inheritable trait. If they weren't then the "psychic races" that regularly develop a consistant set of psionic abilities would not develop said abilites.
Yes the book list previous psionic R.C.C.s as O.C.C.s now, but that really is incorrect as you cannot train psionics into someone (as in you cannot train someone to HAVE psionics, they either have psionics or they don't). The base ability has to be there first THEN you train that person (or persons) HOW to use their ability effectively. Look at Dog Boys, their psionic potential is innate and present in ALL of them, yet they have to be TRAINED in how to use those psionics properly.
And actually you CAN "pass on" training, you just train someone else in your job set. It's just that job skills/knowledge cannot be inherited, they have to be learned.

Uh no, you can train people to have psionics. Cyber-Knights and Techno-Wizards for example have psionics as part of the package that they develop as part of their training. Also there's nothing to really justify the opinion that Dog Boys require training to make use of their psychic abilities, they're inherent and natural abilities just as they don't require training to use their heightened senses or claws.

Nightmask wrote:

keir451 wrote:

Tor wrote:I think the implication is racial abilities and not psychic ones. STs have a higher chance of psionics but since they don't all have it, it's not much of a racial ability, so much as a correlation, like cobblerhood.

Besides, psionics are OCCs now, can't pass on training, it isn't Dune. Well, except for dragons and their weird spells they spontaneously know at adulthood.

Yet ALL Sea Titans are twice as likely to have psionics so that implies that it IS a racial ability as Sea Titans ARE a seperate and distinct subrace of human. So following that track that implies that psionics (or at least psionic potential in some cases) ARE an inheritable trait. If they weren't then the "psychic races" that regularly develop a consistant set of psionic abilities would not develop said abilites.
Yes the book list previous psionic R.C.C.s as O.C.C.s now, but that really is incorrect as you cannot train psionics into someone (as in you cannot train someone to HAVE psionics, they either have psionics or they don't). The base ability has to be there first THEN you train that person (or persons) HOW to use their ability effectively. Look at Dog Boys, their psionic potential is innate and present in ALL of them, yet they have to be TRAINED in how to use those psionics properly.
And actually you CAN "pass on" training, you just train someone else in your job set. It's just that job skills/knowledge cannot be inherited, they have to be learned.

Uh no, you can train people to have psionics. Cyber-Knights and Techno-Wizards for example have psionics as part of the package that they develop as part of their training. Also there's nothing to really justify the opinion that Dog Boys require training to make use of their psychic abilities, they're inherent and natural abilities just as they don't require training to use their heightened senses or claws.

Actually it's rather more like you're trianing them to develop their already inherent psionic potential. It states that most psychics spend time learning and mastering their powers, that's why they're less educated than other characters. They key word (to me) is DEVELOP, the ability is already there, but they have to DEVELOP and TRAIN it, it doesn't spring into being fully developed, it takes time and effort to fully develop those abilities. It's the POTENTIAL for those developed abilites that exists originally, that's what the characters develop.
Cyberknights are like Jedi, they are chosen because of certain things (higher base P.P.E levels) and then they train under a master to learn how to develop and use their abilities.
Techno-wizards follow a similar path to other psychics, they probably don't have a "master and apprentice" scenario (I could be wrong though), so they have to develop their powers themselves over time. In either case the potential for psionics already exists, at least on some level, so it can become a useable ability later on.

keir451 wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

keir451 wrote:

Tor wrote:I think the implication is racial abilities and not psychic ones. STs have a higher chance of psionics but since they don't all have it, it's not much of a racial ability, so much as a correlation, like cobblerhood.

Besides, psionics are OCCs now, can't pass on training, it isn't Dune. Well, except for dragons and their weird spells they spontaneously know at adulthood.

Yet ALL Sea Titans are twice as likely to have psionics so that implies that it IS a racial ability as Sea Titans ARE a seperate and distinct subrace of human. So following that track that implies that psionics (or at least psionic potential in some cases) ARE an inheritable trait. If they weren't then the "psychic races" that regularly develop a consistant set of psionic abilities would not develop said abilites.
Yes the book list previous psionic R.C.C.s as O.C.C.s now, but that really is incorrect as you cannot train psionics into someone (as in you cannot train someone to HAVE psionics, they either have psionics or they don't). The base ability has to be there first THEN you train that person (or persons) HOW to use their ability effectively. Look at Dog Boys, their psionic potential is innate and present in ALL of them, yet they have to be TRAINED in how to use those psionics properly.
And actually you CAN "pass on" training, you just train someone else in your job set. It's just that job skills/knowledge cannot be inherited, they have to be learned.

Uh no, you can train people to have psionics. Cyber-Knights and Techno-Wizards for example have psionics as part of the package that they develop as part of their training. Also there's nothing to really justify the opinion that Dog Boys require training to make use of their psychic abilities, they're inherent and natural abilities just as they don't require training to use their heightened senses or claws.

Actually it's rather more like you're trianing them to develop their already inherent psionic potential. It states that most psychics spend time learning and mastering their powers, that's why they're less educated than other characters. They key word (to me) is DEVELOP, the ability is already there, but they have to DEVELOP and TRAIN it, it doesn't spring into being fully developed, it takes time and effort to fully develop those abilities. It's the POTENTIAL for those developed abilites that exists originally, that's what the characters develop.
Cyberknights are like Jedi, they are chosen because of certain things (higher base P.P.E levels) and then they train under a master to learn how to develop and use their abilities.
Techno-wizards follow a similar path to other psychics, they probably don't have a "master and apprentice" scenario (I could be wrong though), so they have to develop their powers themselves over time. In either case the potential for psionics already exists, at least on some level, so it can become a useable ability later on.

I seriously doubt Dog Boys are having to train to sense magic or supernatural creatures, or somehow have to learn how to detect such things they're clearly inherent abilities like the Buster's natural immunity to heat and flame. They aren't going 'gee I need to keep putting my hand into this fire so I can learn how to be immune to it' they just are. That 'need to develop and train' seems more along the lines of really bad GM rules because on the one hand you see references to it being basically latent potential that you have to train no different than magical ability yet on the other hand shown to spontaneously develop and exist and for genetic engineers like Gene-Splicers to easily instill in others as well as enhance already existing psychic powers. There are also too many psychic classes around like Psi-Techs and Gizmoteers for that 'well they're uneducated because they had to practice mind blank' claim to be valid either.

You also can't insist that people can't train for psychic powers when I've shown several existing classes right from the core book that clearly train someone to have psychic powers, classes that don't say 'must have latent psionic potential to become this class'. Just like Crazies get psychic powers turned on by some brain stimulating implants, there's no training involved at best you simply have some 'okay so what can I do?' practice but that hardly equates to intensive training that you'd have to give up learning other things over (which is likely why the removed the half skill limitation for Major psychics in the Ultimate Edition, they realized how ridiculous the limitation was). From the percentage tables in the books a LOT of people naturally manifest some psychic powers in any case and zero mention that they had to train and practice for them.

These are directly addressed in the Lone Star book (For Dog boy Training and dog boys out side of the CS) and for "Training Psionics" in the Psiscape book.

Not trying to jump in the middle of the melee, but it is addressed there.

Have fun guys.

keir451 wrote:The Sea Titan powers include more tha just being effectively immortal, having an MDC body, etc., they also include a greater chance to have psychic abilities. So if a Sea Titan that has psionics has children then, since those ARE Sea Titan abilites as well, the offspring would inherit those as well. Also it seems that psionic ability IS inherited especially in the case of Dog Boys as ALL Dog Boys , whether Feral or CS, have psionics of some sort. It's just that the concept of genetic inheritance is not really touched upon in Rifts, so I have to "think outside the box" with the given information and conclude that SOME abilities are passed on from parent to child just as traits are passed on in real life.

Any child of a Sea Titan will be a SEA TITAN. I can not get any more simpler then that.

Psionics.....Sea Titan children will have the same possibility of having them as any other Sea Titan. No more and no less then what is stated in the Sea Titan text.

Nightmask wrote:

keir451 wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

keir451 wrote:

Tor wrote:I think the implication is racial abilities and not psychic ones. STs have a higher chance of psionics but since they don't all have it, it's not much of a racial ability, so much as a correlation, like cobblerhood.

Besides, psionics are OCCs now, can't pass on training, it isn't Dune. Well, except for dragons and their weird spells they spontaneously know at adulthood.

Yet ALL Sea Titans are twice as likely to have psionics so that implies that it IS a racial ability as Sea Titans ARE a seperate and distinct subrace of human. So following that track that implies that psionics (or at least psionic potential in some cases) ARE an inheritable trait. If they weren't then the "psychic races" that regularly develop a consistant set of psionic abilities would not develop said abilites.
Yes the book list previous psionic R.C.C.s as O.C.C.s now, but that really is incorrect as you cannot train psionics into someone (as in you cannot train someone to HAVE psionics, they either have psionics or they don't). The base ability has to be there first THEN you train that person (or persons) HOW to use their ability effectively. Look at Dog Boys, their psionic potential is innate and present in ALL of them, yet they have to be TRAINED in how to use those psionics properly.
And actually you CAN "pass on" training, you just train someone else in your job set. It's just that job skills/knowledge cannot be inherited, they have to be learned.

Uh no, you can train people to have psionics. Cyber-Knights and Techno-Wizards for example have psionics as part of the package that they develop as part of their training. Also there's nothing to really justify the opinion that Dog Boys require training to make use of their psychic abilities, they're inherent and natural abilities just as they don't require training to use their heightened senses or claws.

Actually it's rather more like you're trianing them to develop their already inherent psionic potential. It states that most psychics spend time learning and mastering their powers, that's why they're less educated than other characters. They key word (to me) is DEVELOP, the ability is already there, but they have to DEVELOP and TRAIN it, it doesn't spring into being fully developed, it takes time and effort to fully develop those abilities. It's the POTENTIAL for those developed abilites that exists originally, that's what the characters develop.
Cyberknights are like Jedi, they are chosen because of certain things (higher base P.P.E levels) and then they train under a master to learn how to develop and use their abilities.
Techno-wizards follow a similar path to other psychics, they probably don't have a "master and apprentice" scenario (I could be wrong though), so they have to develop their powers themselves over time. In either case the potential for psionics already exists, at least on some level, so it can become a useable ability later on.

I seriously doubt Dog Boys are having to train to sense magic or supernatural creatures, or somehow have to learn how to detect such things they're clearly inherent abilities like the Buster's natural immunity to heat and flame. They aren't going 'gee I need to keep putting my hand into this fire so I can learn how to be immune to it' they just are. That 'need to develop and train' seems more along the lines of really bad GM rules because on the one hand you see references to it being basically latent potential that you have to train no different than magical ability yet on the other hand shown to spontaneously develop and exist and for genetic engineers like Gene-Splicers to easily instill in others as well as enhance already existing psychic powers. There are also too many psychic classes around like Psi-Techs and Gizmoteers for that 'well they're uneducated because they had to practice mind blank' claim to be valid either.

You also can't insist that people can't train for psychic powers when I've shown several existing classes right from the core book that clearly train someone to have psychic powers, classes that don't say 'must have latent psionic potential to become this class'. Just like Crazies get psychic powers turned on by some brain stimulating implants, there's no training involved at best you simply have some 'okay so what can I do?' practice but that hardly equates to intensive training that you'd have to give up learning other things over (which is likely why the removed the half skill limitation for Major psychics in the Ultimate Edition, they realized how ridiculous the limitation was). From the percentage tables in the books a LOT of people naturally manifest some psychic powers in any case and zero mention that they had to train and practice for them.

What part of "Potential Phsychic Energy" did you miss? That means that everyone has the Potential for psionics is takes a certain amount of training to use them effectively. The Burster, Mind Melter and other human psychics are clearly stated as having to learn how to use their powers, yes the Bursters immunity to heat is an innate part of their abilities that they don't have to learn how to use but they DO have to train their other psionic abilities.
Cyberknights study under a Master to be able to learn how to harness their P.P.E and create the Psi-sword, (and to learn the ways of the Cyberknights), which iIS a psioninc ability, only AFTER that training can they regularly create a psi-sword and psi-sheild. BEFORE studying under that master they could not create them.
Yes the Dog Boys psionics are innate, but there is still some level of training. As their powers are all decribed as being relativley simialr to scent tracking then the training most likely revolves around learning the use that ability more effectively, much like dogs are trained to use their innate sense of smell to recognize drugs and explosives. The sense of smell is innate, but the training is what refines it.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

keir451 wrote:The Sea Titan powers include more tha just being effectively immortal, having an MDC body, etc., they also include a greater chance to have psychic abilities. So if a Sea Titan that has psionics has children then, since those ARE Sea Titan abilites as well, the offspring would inherit those as well. Also it seems that psionic ability IS inherited especially in the case of Dog Boys as ALL Dog Boys , whether Feral or CS, have psionics of some sort. It's just that the concept of genetic inheritance is not really touched upon in Rifts, so I have to "think outside the box" with the given information and conclude that SOME abilities are passed on from parent to child just as traits are passed on in real life.

Any child of a Sea Titan will be a SEA TITAN. I can not get any more simpler then that.

Psionics.....Sea Titan children will have the same possibility of having them as any other Sea Titan. No more and no less then what is stated in the Sea Titan text.

Yes, it is clearly stated that any child of a Sea Titan will be a Sea Titan. I'm very well aware of that fact. Nonetheless if that child inherits ALL the parent's abilities then it stands to reason that if said parent was a psychic then the child will be too. If that were not the case the book would clearly state that they inherit "all abilities EXCEPT the parent's psionics which mus tbe rolled for again". It seems more likely that the table refers to the parent's psionics not the child's. "ALL" means "ALL" not "ALL but this".
So in the end; Any child of a Sea Titan will be a Sea Titan and inherit all the parent's abilities, that seems to indicate that it would override any other parents' contribution wetehr they are Amazon or not, but as perviously stated, in the end it's a "GM's call". So play it how you will and have fun! C'ya!

Actually, all living creatures have PPE, but not all have ISP, or any potential for psionics.

As for the genetics of psionics, that seems to be a deeply recessive trait that can leap generations... the child of a psi able ST and a mind melter might very well not have any psi powers at all... or do you have canon proof of the reverse?

keir451 wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

keir451 wrote:The Sea Titan powers include more tha just being effectively immortal, having an MDC body, etc., they also include a greater chance to have psychic abilities. So if a Sea Titan that has psionics has children then, since those ARE Sea Titan abilites as well, the offspring would inherit those as well. Also it seems that psionic ability IS inherited especially in the case of Dog Boys as ALL Dog Boys , whether Feral or CS, have psionics of some sort. It's just that the concept of genetic inheritance is not really touched upon in Rifts, so I have to "think outside the box" with the given information and conclude that SOME abilities are passed on from parent to child just as traits are passed on in real life.

Any child of a Sea Titan will be a SEA TITAN. I can not get any more simpler then that.

Psionics.....Sea Titan children will have the same possibility of having them as any other Sea Titan. No more and no less then what is stated in the Sea Titan text.

Yes, it is clearly stated that any child of a Sea Titan will be a Sea Titan. I'm very well aware of that fact. Nonetheless if that child inherits ALL the parent's abilities then it stands to reason that if said parent was a psychic then the child will be too. If that were not the case the book would clearly state that they inherit "all abilities EXCEPT the parent's psionics which mus tbe rolled for again". It seems more likely that the table refers to the parent's psionics not the child's. "ALL" means "ALL" not "ALL but this".
So in the end; Any child of a Sea Titan will be a Sea Titan and inherit all the parent's abilities, that seems to indicate that it would override any other parents' contribution wetehr they are Amazon or not, but as perviously stated, in the end it's a "GM's call". So play it how you will and have fun! C'ya!

If you are gonna try and push this then, technically speaking, No. It is still a singular use of the word. Meaning even if both parents are Sea Titans the offspring still only receive powers from ONE of the parents, not both. The wording is unchanged, no matter if there are one or two Sea Titan Parents. Attempting to break or munchkin it any other way fails.

Svartalf wrote:Actually, all living creatures have PPE, but not all have ISP, or any potential for psionics.

True, very true. Yet the Cyberknight description states that they choose their candidates for their high P.P.E. and (IIRC) psychics develop their psionics FROM said P.P.E. first (Potential Psychic Energy) and after developing those powers they then "cost" I.S.P to use from then on and their P.P.E. base is reduced to "X" amount (whatever D6 level the book states).

keir451 wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

keir451 wrote:Actually it's rather more like you're trianing them to develop their already inherent psionic potential. It states that most psychics spend time learning and mastering their powers, that's why they're less educated than other characters. They key word (to me) is DEVELOP, the ability is already there, but they have to DEVELOP and TRAIN it, it doesn't spring into being fully developed, it takes time and effort to fully develop those abilities. It's the POTENTIAL for those developed abilites that exists originally, that's what the characters develop.
Cyberknights are like Jedi, they are chosen because of certain things (higher base P.P.E levels) and then they train under a master to learn how to develop and use their abilities.
Techno-wizards follow a similar path to other psychics, they probably don't have a "master and apprentice" scenario (I could be wrong though), so they have to develop their powers themselves over time. In either case the potential for psionics already exists, at least on some level, so it can become a useable ability later on.

I seriously doubt Dog Boys are having to train to sense magic or supernatural creatures, or somehow have to learn how to detect such things they're clearly inherent abilities like the Buster's natural immunity to heat and flame. They aren't going 'gee I need to keep putting my hand into this fire so I can learn how to be immune to it' they just are. That 'need to develop and train' seems more along the lines of really bad GM rules because on the one hand you see references to it being basically latent potential that you have to train no different than magical ability yet on the other hand shown to spontaneously develop and exist and for genetic engineers like Gene-Splicers to easily instill in others as well as enhance already existing psychic powers. There are also too many psychic classes around like Psi-Techs and Gizmoteers for that 'well they're uneducated because they had to practice mind blank' claim to be valid either.

You also can't insist that people can't train for psychic powers when I've shown several existing classes right from the core book that clearly train someone to have psychic powers, classes that don't say 'must have latent psionic potential to become this class'. Just like Crazies get psychic powers turned on by some brain stimulating implants, there's no training involved at best you simply have some 'okay so what can I do?' practice but that hardly equates to intensive training that you'd have to give up learning other things over (which is likely why the removed the half skill limitation for Major psychics in the Ultimate Edition, they realized how ridiculous the limitation was). From the percentage tables in the books a LOT of people naturally manifest some psychic powers in any case and zero mention that they had to train and practice for them.

What part of "Potential Phsychic Energy" did you miss? That means that everyone has the Potential for psionics is takes a certain amount of training to use them effectively. The Burster, Mind Melter and other human psychics are clearly stated as having to learn how to use their powers, yes the Bursters immunity to heat is an innate part of their abilities that they don't have to learn how to use but they DO have to train their other psionic abilities.
Cyberknights study under a Master to be able to learn how to harness their P.P.E and create the Psi-sword, (and to learn the ways of the Cyberknights), which iIS a psioninc ability, only AFTER that training can they regularly create a psi-sword and psi-sheild. BEFORE studying under that master they could not create them.
Yes the Dog Boys psionics are innate, but there is still some level of training. As their powers are all decribed as being relativley simialr to scent tracking then the training most likely revolves around learning the use that ability more effectively, much like dogs are trained to use their innate sense of smell to recognize drugs and explosives. The sense of smell is innate, but the training is what refines it.

I didn't miss anything, and those statements aren't supported by what we actually see regarding psychic powers, and given it's possible to have psychic powers without training insisting that psychic powers require training to have just fails on its face. You've also got contradictory claims from stating that you can't train to have psychic powers but acknowledge that Cyber-Knights do in fact train to have them.

It also doesn't matter if they use similar descriptions for the psychic detection powers to their scent-tracking, that doesn't mean you have to train to have those detection abilities they're as inherent as being able to see and hear and it would be absurd to try and claim someone had to train to hear, see, or smell. You might see some training to exploit those natural abilities in specific ways like detecting drugs for the scent of smell but they are going to have that enhanced sense of smell without any training whatsoever. The entire point of creating Dog Boys in the first place was to exploit the natural ability of animals to detect supernatural creatures and magic and enhance that natural ability to better use them as protection against supernatural and magical things. The senses are natural and automatic and require no training to have or use, any training they may have is to exploit those senses and natural psychic powers in various situations rather than to actually have those abilities.

keir451 wrote:

Svartalf wrote:Actually, all living creatures have PPE, but not all have ISP, or any potential for psionics.

True, very true. Yet the Cyberknight description states that they choose their candidates for their high P.P.E. and (IIRC) psychics develop their psionics FROM said P.P.E. first (Potential Psychic Energy) and after developing those powers they then "cost" I.S.P to use from then on and their P.P.E. base is reduced to "X" amount (whatever D6 level the book states).

Except many psychic classes the PPE they have is the same as or moreso than what a non-psychic has, so clearly they aren't depleting any of their natural PPE.

13eowulf wrote:

keir451 wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

keir451 wrote:The Sea Titan powers include more tha just being effectively immortal, having an MDC body, etc., they also include a greater chance to have psychic abilities. So if a Sea Titan that has psionics has children then, since those ARE Sea Titan abilites as well, the offspring would inherit those as well. Also it seems that psionic ability IS inherited especially in the case of Dog Boys as ALL Dog Boys , whether Feral or CS, have psionics of some sort. It's just that the concept of genetic inheritance is not really touched upon in Rifts, so I have to "think outside the box" with the given information and conclude that SOME abilities are passed on from parent to child just as traits are passed on in real life.

Any child of a Sea Titan will be a SEA TITAN. I can not get any more simpler then that.

Psionics.....Sea Titan children will have the same possibility of having them as any other Sea Titan. No more and no less then what is stated in the Sea Titan text.

Yes, it is clearly stated that any child of a Sea Titan will be a Sea Titan. I'm very well aware of that fact. Nonetheless if that child inherits ALL the parent's abilities then it stands to reason that if said parent was a psychic then the child will be too. If that were not the case the book would clearly state that they inherit "all abilities EXCEPT the parent's psionics which mus tbe rolled for again". It seems more likely that the table refers to the parent's psionics not the child's. "ALL" means "ALL" not "ALL but this".
So in the end; Any child of a Sea Titan will be a Sea Titan and inherit all the parent's abilities, that seems to indicate that it would override any other parents' contribution wetehr they are Amazon or not, but as perviously stated, in the end it's a "GM's call". So play it how you will and have fun! C'ya!

If you are gonna try and push this then, technically speaking, No. It is still a singular use of the word. Meaning even if both parents are Sea Titans the offspring still only receive powers from ONE of the parents, not both. The wording is unchanged, no matter if there are one or two Sea Titan Parents. Attempting to break or munchkin it any other way fails.

Ok, then following that line: Which parent do they inherit from? The father or the mother? Is it both or neither? This seems to be what drewkitty was saying, that a child of a Sea Titan is a Sea Titan no matter what. I can see that as far as game mechanics are concerened the "psychic inheritance" would be represented by the roill of the dice for the Sea Ttians psionic (any or none as the dice roll indicates).

keir451 wrote:

13eowulf wrote:

keir451 wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

keir451 wrote:The Sea Titan powers include more tha just being effectively immortal, having an MDC body, etc., they also include a greater chance to have psychic abilities. So if a Sea Titan that has psionics has children then, since those ARE Sea Titan abilites as well, the offspring would inherit those as well. Also it seems that psionic ability IS inherited especially in the case of Dog Boys as ALL Dog Boys , whether Feral or CS, have psionics of some sort. It's just that the concept of genetic inheritance is not really touched upon in Rifts, so I have to "think outside the box" with the given information and conclude that SOME abilities are passed on from parent to child just as traits are passed on in real life.

Any child of a Sea Titan will be a SEA TITAN. I can not get any more simpler then that.

Psionics.....Sea Titan children will have the same possibility of having them as any other Sea Titan. No more and no less then what is stated in the Sea Titan text.

Yes, it is clearly stated that any child of a Sea Titan will be a Sea Titan. I'm very well aware of that fact. Nonetheless if that child inherits ALL the parent's abilities then it stands to reason that if said parent was a psychic then the child will be too. If that were not the case the book would clearly state that they inherit "all abilities EXCEPT the parent's psionics which mus tbe rolled for again". It seems more likely that the table refers to the parent's psionics not the child's. "ALL" means "ALL" not "ALL but this".
So in the end; Any child of a Sea Titan will be a Sea Titan and inherit all the parent's abilities, that seems to indicate that it would override any other parents' contribution wetehr they are Amazon or not, but as perviously stated, in the end it's a "GM's call". So play it how you will and have fun! C'ya!

If you are gonna try and push this then, technically speaking, No. It is still a singular use of the word. Meaning even if both parents are Sea Titans the offspring still only receive powers from ONE of the parents, not both. The wording is unchanged, no matter if there are one or two Sea Titan Parents. Attempting to break or munchkin it any other way fails.

Ok, then following that line: Which parent do they inherit from? The father or the mother? Is it both or neither? This seems to be what drewkitty was saying, that a child of a Sea Titan is a Sea Titan no matter what. I can see that as far as game mechanics are concerened the "psychic inheritance" would be represented by the roill of the dice for the Sea Ttians psionic (any or none as the dice roll indicates).

In terms of game mechanics: It doesnt matter.
In terms of character history: "Dealer's Choice", so to speak.
In terms of biology: We dont have enough information, and never will, on the genetic level of Sea Titan biology to ever know.
In terms of house rules: Roll a D100, even numbers = mother, odd numbers = father.

Nightmask wrote:

keir451 wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

keir451 wrote:Actually it's rather more like you're trianing them to develop their already inherent psionic potential. It states that most psychics spend time learning and mastering their powers, that's why they're less educated than other characters. They key word (to me) is DEVELOP, the ability is already there, but they have to DEVELOP and TRAIN it, it doesn't spring into being fully developed, it takes time and effort to fully develop those abilities. It's the POTENTIAL for those developed abilites that exists originally, that's what the characters develop.
Cyberknights are like Jedi, they are chosen because of certain things (higher base P.P.E levels) and then they train under a master to learn how to develop and use their abilities.
Techno-wizards follow a similar path to other psychics, they probably don't have a "master and apprentice" scenario (I could be wrong though), so they have to develop their powers themselves over time. In either case the potential for psionics already exists, at least on some level, so it can become a useable ability later on.

I seriously doubt Dog Boys are having to train to sense magic or supernatural creatures, or somehow have to learn how to detect such things they're clearly inherent abilities like the Buster's natural immunity to heat and flame. They aren't going 'gee I need to keep putting my hand into this fire so I can learn how to be immune to it' they just are. That 'need to develop and train' seems more along the lines of really bad GM rules because on the one hand you see references to it being basically latent potential that you have to train no different than magical ability yet on the other hand shown to spontaneously develop and exist and for genetic engineers like Gene-Splicers to easily instill in others as well as enhance already existing psychic powers. There are also too many psychic classes around like Psi-Techs and Gizmoteers for that 'well they're uneducated because they had to practice mind blank' claim to be valid either.

You also can't insist that people can't train for psychic powers when I've shown several existing classes right from the core book that clearly train someone to have psychic powers, classes that don't say 'must have latent psionic potential to become this class'. Just like Crazies get psychic powers turned on by some brain stimulating implants, there's no training involved at best you simply have some 'okay so what can I do?' practice but that hardly equates to intensive training that you'd have to give up learning other things over (which is likely why the removed the half skill limitation for Major psychics in the Ultimate Edition, they realized how ridiculous the limitation was). From the percentage tables in the books a LOT of people naturally manifest some psychic powers in any case and zero mention that they had to train and practice for them.

What part of "Potential Phsychic Energy" did you miss? That means that everyone has the Potential for psionics is takes a certain amount of training to use them effectively. The Burster, Mind Melter and other human psychics are clearly stated as having to learn how to use their powers, yes the Bursters immunity to heat is an innate part of their abilities that they don't have to learn how to use but they DO have to train their other psionic abilities.
Cyberknights study under a Master to be able to learn how to harness their P.P.E and create the Psi-sword, (and to learn the ways of the Cyberknights), which iIS a psioninc ability, only AFTER that training can they regularly create a psi-sword and psi-sheild. BEFORE studying under that master they could not create them.
Yes the Dog Boys psionics are innate, but there is still some level of training. As their powers are all decribed as being relativley simialr to scent tracking then the training most likely revolves around learning the use that ability more effectively, much like dogs are trained to use their innate sense of smell to recognize drugs and explosives. The sense of smell is innate, but the training is what refines it.

I didn't miss anything, and those statements aren't supported by what we actually see regarding psychic powers, and given it's possible to have psychic powers without training insisting that psychic powers require training to have just fails on its face. You've also got contradictory claims from stating that you can't train to have psychic powers but acknowledge that Cyber-Knights do in fact train to have them.

It also doesn't matter if they use similar descriptions for the psychic detection powers to their scent-tracking, that doesn't mean you have to train to have those detection abilities they're as inherent as being able to see and hear and it would be absurd to try and claim someone had to train to hear, see, or smell. You might see some training to exploit those natural abilities in specific ways like detecting drugs for the scent of smell but they are going to have that enhanced sense of smell without any training whatsoever. The entire point of creating Dog Boys in the first place was to exploit the natural ability of animals to detect supernatural creatures and magic and enhance that natural ability to better use them as protection against supernatural and magical things. The senses are natural and automatic and require no training to have or use, any training they may have is to exploit those senses and natural psychic powers in various situations rather than to actually have those abilities.

You either have psionincs or you don't, that is stated in the rules and represented by the random roll for psionics (or you can choose them), just as it is stated that psychics spend time learning and developing their powers. Yes the powers are innate, but learning to use them requires time and practice which equates to training. Cyberknights do NOT have the ability to create a psi-sword before they under go the training to harness their inner strength.
Every character in Rifts has the POTENTIAL for psionics, but it STILL requires training (whether provided by a mentor or done through personal effort) to be able to use those psionics effectively once they manifest.
Anyway, as I said, in the end it's all up the individual GM, make your call and have fun! Laters!

@ 13 eowulf; Fair 'nough for me! Anyway i'm done. Laters!

keir451 wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

keir451 wrote:The Sea Titan powers include more than just being effectively immortal, having an MDC body, etc., they also include a greater chance to have psychic abilities. So if a Sea Titan that has psionics has children then, since those ARE Sea Titan abilities as well, the offspring would inherit those as well. Also it seems that psionic ability IS inherited especially in the case of Dog Boys as ALL Dog Boys , whether Feral or CS, have psionics of some sort. It's just that the concept of genetic inheritance is not really touched upon in Rifts, so I have to "think outside the box" with the given information and conclude that SOME abilities are passed on from parent to child just as traits are passed on in real life.

Any child of a Sea Titan will be a SEA TITAN. I can not get any more simpler then that.

Psionics.....Sea Titan children will have the same possibility of having them as any other Sea Titan. No more and no less then what is stated in the Sea Titan text.

Yes, it is clearly stated that any child of a Sea Titan will be a Sea Titan. I'm very well aware of that fact. Nonetheless if that child inherits ALL the parent's abilities then it stands to reason that if said parent was a psychic then the child will be too. If that were not the case the book would clearly state that they inherit "all abilities EXCEPT the parent's psionics which must be rolled for again". It seems more likely that the table refers to the parent's psionics not the child's. "ALL" means "ALL" not "ALL but this".
So in the end; Any child of a Sea Titan will be a Sea Titan and inherit all the parent's abilities, that seems to indicate that it would override any other parents' contribution whether they are Amazon or not, but as perviously stated, in the end it's a "GM's call". So play it how you will and have fun! C'ya!

Have you ever noticed that what is meant by what is said and what is said can be different?

Well you are reading too much into the words this time. The child inherits the parents Sea Titan'ness, not the parents exact powers profile.

Yes, the way it is written the ST enhancement overrides every other inheritable powers from a possible non-ST parent. When talking about 'mundane' human races mating with ST's this is true. However, when considering it when the 'other' parent is a SN being the exact text breaks down. Especially when talking about absolutes....what happens when one absolute meats another absolute?

This is the why when things are hashed out in former iterations of this topic people have considered things by thinking and discussing them. And Yes, we came up with the sex of the child between a mating of a ST and AN Amazon will determine which type of SN being it will be.

It is with the coming of the RUE that people here started getting "NOooooo, my way is right" here in the forums.

It just wants me to the idiots with a clue bat, cause it is abundantly clear to me that they have not sat down and thought things though thoroughly and thus are slavishly bound to what is written in the books. Not wanting to think about things that on the face of it are cut and dry by what is written...but are stupid in effect as they are written.
--------------
To correct the wulf:
In terms of biology: it is supernatural energies imbedded in the ST's life that are the determining factor, the genes are just there 'for a ride' so to speak.

keir451 wrote:ALL Sea Titans are twice as likely to have psionics so that implies that it IS a racial ability as Sea Titans ARE a seperate and distinct subrace of human.

The higher chance is a racial ability. Actually having the power isn't. If that were inherited then eventually all Sea Titans would have psionics if their parents did.

keir451 wrote:So following that track that implies that psionics (or at least psionic potential in some cases) ARE an inheritable trait. If they weren't then the "psychic races" that regularly develop a consistant set of psionic abilities would not develop said abilites.

More like a chance for potential. You have the same chance of being a minor psionic if you have 2 mind melter sea titan parents compared to if you had 2 non-psionic parents, 1 titan and 1 human.

keir451 wrote:the book list previous psionic R.C.C.s as O.C.C.s now, but that really is incorrect as you cannot train psionics into someone (as in you cannot train someone to HAVE psionics, they either have psionics or they don't).

Where have the rules every said you can't train psionics into people? What do you think Cyber-Knights and Techno-Wizards are? Just noticed Nightmask mentioned this before I did after I wrote it... Clearly it can be done to SOME degree.

The OCC classification is still fine though. All it means is that psionics are a prerequisite for the OCC. Although it appears that you don't have to roll randomly for them if you opt for the OCC.

keir451 wrote:The base ability has to be there first THEN you train that person (or persons) HOW to use their ability effectively. Look at Dog Boys, their psionic potential is innate and present in ALL of them, yet they have to be TRAINED in how to use those psionics properly.

Ah, but when you create a Burster, you just assume they're psychic, you don't have to roll psionics on the standard table.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Any child of a Sea Titan will be a SEA TITAN. I can not get any more simpler then that.

Oh? Sounds like a challenge... Let's introduce some DILEMMAS.

Scenario A: What if a Sea Titan woman is a worshipper of Dyval and she makes a pact to become a witch of Lady Hel, sacrificing her firstborn. Hel declares that a Greater Deevil (let's say, a Horror) needs to be reincarnated, and is going to possess her fetus. So, the Sea Titaness goes and has a fun night with the local Ogre, and gets knocked up, and the Horror possesses the SeaFetitan.

What gets born? A horror possessing a Sea Titan body? A normal Horror (with standard midget period), or is the Horror rejected?

Scenario B: a water Gregorian happens along a pregnant Sea Titaness and merges its scaley essence into her fetus. What gets born, a normal Sea Titan? A Sea Titan Seahorse-Athanatos? A normal human Athanatos?

Scenario C: the local Sea Titaness with a star-shaped birthmark has a thing for short guys. One day, a blunderbuss-and-axe-toting Mountebank named Bricknack comes along, and distracts her from her usual appetites of Dwarves (his mighty astral satchel and bandanna impressing her even more than the Asgardian variety). Bricknack takes her to a magical twilight realm, and promptly hands her over to a horrible humanoid bat-monster, and smiles, takes his monetary reward, and spends it on his usual daily Succubi appetites.

The Sea Titaness is promptly dragged into a Pyramid and ritually forced to become a concubine (this is how Palladium tends to word it) by a gang of bat-Avatars.

When she gives birth to her baby Sea Titan, does he become a Nightlord shortly after becoming MDC?

Since Sea Titans are human to start can they be Demigods or what of those born in strange places? My parents moved to Capital City can I know be a Mystically Bestowed Sea Titan?

I could see a Seatitan choosing a master psionic abilities. Its an option they can have. I imaginr in a sub being a Burster is a lil bit useless in the Wilds of England? Hey on top of being a LOW Mdc healing fishman with again low Supernatural strength Hurling firebolts and using a Pyrokinetic Sword ( thanks guys) now makes the SuperJarhead Legendary. As a hero should be.

say652 wrote:Since Sea Titans are human to start can they be Demigods

If there is a process to elevate a non-Demigod into a demigod then sure. But since Sea Titanhood overrides other races, it would override demigodhood.

say652 wrote:My parents moved to Capital City can I know be a Mystically Bestowed Sea Titan?

The issue on what races can be HU power categories is kind of fuzzy. =/

Tor wrote:

say652 wrote:Since Sea Titans are human to start can they be Demigods

If there is a process to elevate a non-Demigod into a demigod then sure. But since Sea Titanhood overrides other races, it would override demigodhood.

say652 wrote:My parents moved to Capital City can I know be a Mystically Bestowed Sea Titan?

The issue on what races can be HU power categories is kind of fuzzy. =/

So no Demigod Seatitans.
As far as Mystically Bestowed Abilities that sounds like a solid maybe. Lol

The latter would've been a decent thing for Armageddon Unlimited to address since they revamped the Mystic Bestowed category, perfect place for some errata.

Also, I resent this book being named after an established Mercenaries company. Ahriman is not impress.