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Jorel wrote:I'd guess the CoT made him much less trusting of most except those few he keeps real close.

Asterios wrote:And yet a company that started off small like Palladium, still does a lot in the field of Paper RPGs, also while they may put out card games I would not call that their main line, [...]

Asterios wrote:[...] in fact wouldn't really call them CCG's and not really played around here(lets face it if it ain't Yu-Gi-Oh or Magic the Gathering it ain't selling).

Asterios wrote:But let us continue, SJG was actually into the computer age back in the 90's [...] and yet Palladium is still not up to where SJG was in the 90's, and I've looked so far can't find a list of store distributors for PB and yet every other game company has said list.

Asterios wrote:So please explain a company that started the same time as Palladium, had the same number of people then Palladium, didn't have any permits like Robotech or TMNT and yet is doing better then Palladium and is doing better all around?

Asterios wrote:My other statement is fact, you are digging for any excuse for Palladium and it is now becoming tiresome and droll.

Larry A wrote:Instead, it will be chop shop el cheapo crap. You will be able to put it in a dictionary by "Chinese-junk" as an example.

Asterios wrote:Let me interject one major factor here, when Kevin dies or retires, that is the end of Palladium Books, he has not brought in any new blood or anything, so what it comes down to is, the company will die, its just a matter of time.

Jorel wrote:I'd guess the CoT made him much less trusting of most except those few he keeps real close.

Book publisher employee sentenced in embezzlement case
Wednesday, April 26, 2006

By MATTHEW LANE
Times-News

DETROIT, Mich - A former Palladium Books employee charged with stealing thousands of dollars worth of artwork, transparencies and books from the company was sentenced to probation last week.

Steve Sheiring, the former sales manager at Palladium Books, was sentenced to one year non-reporting probation on April 20 in the 3rd Circuit Court in Detroit. According to prosecutors, Sheiring paid $47,080 in restitution to Palladium Books.

Sheiring pleaded guilty on April 14 to a misdemeanor charge of embezzlement under $200. Sheiring was initially charged with embezzlement over $20,000, a felony.

"It was pled down to a misdemeanor, agreed to by the complainant, and there was restitution that was paid," said Maria Miller, assistant district attorney in the Wayne County (Mich.) Prosecutor's Office.

Palladium Books, headquartered in Taylor, Mich, has published dozens of role-playing books over the years, including such popular lines as Rifts, Robotech and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles & Other Strangeness. The company is celebrating its 25th anniversary this year.

Kevin Siembieda, president of Palladium Books, announced in December 2005 numerous items had been stolen from him and the company. Some of the items stolen included original artwork, animation cels, transparencies for more than 50 different titles, collectors edition books, and various Star Wars collectibles.

"(Sheiring) took books, undercharged for certain services, gave away free books; he stole copyright information, rare Star Wars figurines, and equipment," Miller said. "A number of items."

On April 19, Siembieda issued a press release asking the gaming community for help in keeping Palladium Books in business and estimated the embezzlement caused $850,000 to $1.3 million in damages to Palladium Books.

Prosecutors cannot confirm the value of the items stolen.

"We usually don't do it that way," Miller said. "If he's trading goods and services and intangibles and things that have an auction value, then we just estimate when it's not pure money."

Miller said the thefts took place from 2002 through 2004 and were discovered after Palladium Books did an accounting of its inventory and discovered items were missing. Sheiring left Palladium Books in February 2005.

Miller said no items were recovered from Sheiring and that prosecutors do not know how or why Sheiring took the items.

Sheiring faced a maximum sentence of one year in prison and/or a $2,000 fine on the misdemeanor charge in which he plead to. On the initial felony charge, the maximum sentence could have been 10 years in prison and/or a $15,000 fine or three times the amount embezzled, Miller said.

For more information on Palladium Books visit www.palladiumbooks.com.

Asterios wrote:Actually how aware of the facts of the case are you Jorel on the CoT ?, cause I saw the news blurb on it and not sure how or why it would effect their company ?

Asterios wrote:Which is why he should Compartmentalise his operations, seriously he should have 1 project lead for each of the projects, he should have had someone in charge of the RRT and acting as PR and only working on those, instead of having said person doing all that and other stuff to boot.

Asterios wrote:I've seen companies and such who have posted from conventions and such, and yet it seems like most of Palladium is computer illiterate, they remind me of my mother, when she needs something done on the computer she calls me up and asks, just like my youngest brother, they never bothered to get into the Computer generation.

PB probably still believes that computers are a passing fad.

Involved Observer wrote:

Asterios wrote:Actually how aware of the facts of the case are you Jorel on the CoT ?, cause I saw the news blurb on it and not sure how or why it would effect their company ?

Jorel was referencing how the CoT would have affected Kevin himself - Steve Sheiring was a very long-time friend of Kevin's going back to before PB existed - in fact Kevin once said that Steve was one of the people who convinced him to start the company. Steve was also the player in Kevin's Defiler's game who inspired the character of Lord Coake, the founder of the Cyber-Knights in Rifts. He was far more than just an employee to Kevin, which is what made his betrayal so much more brutal on everyone at the company.

Asterios wrote:Yes but my problem i'm having trouble wrapping my head around is how is the loss of prints, books and so on (no actual money or works in progress) harmed the company?

Asterios wrote:Right now i'm debating on whether to go draft a writ for the courts demanding an accounting of the backers financial monies placed into this KS which since i'm a backer I do have a right to get that done, and if the money was used for anything other then what it was intended for gonna be trouble a brewing.

Seto Kaiba wrote:

Asterios wrote:Yes but my problem i'm having trouble wrapping my head around is how is the loss of prints, books and so on (no actual money or works in progress) harmed the company?

Er... maybe you didn't read that carefully. According to that copied news report he stole and either gave away or sold various books, which would be lost inventory which Palladium had paid to produce and would not be recovering profit from. He stole production source material including typesetting transparencies of over 50 different books, as well as original art works used in various books, which would require both time and money to recreate if needed for reprints of books or reuse in new books. He's also described as both having stolen office equipment and undercharging for services, which comes out of the company's bottom line because they have to pay to replace that equipment and if they're taking a loss on services that's no good for the bottom line.

Almost everything he stole, with the exception of personal possessions from the office, ultimately harmed the company's bottom line because it cost them time, money, and resources to replace the material that was stolen. The inventory he gave away is pure lost profit for the obvious reason. Undercharging for a service means that the company is losing money providing that service. The time spent doing inventory to figure out just what was stolen is time Kevin has to pay his staff for, but they're not actually working on new products... that's lost time. Likewise, the time spent in court is time spent not working on books... that's also lost time.

Asterios wrote:Right now i'm debating on whether to go draft a writ for the courts demanding an accounting of the backers financial monies placed into this KS which since i'm a backer I do have a right to get that done, and if the money was used for anything other then what it was intended for gonna be trouble a brewing.

Good luck with that, man... I expect the courts will politely but firmly tell you to do something anatomically improbable unless you can provide them something other than paranoid conspiracy theories.

Asterios wrote:As to what was stolen, you should really ready the bottom line of what his sentence was a year of unsupervised probabtion, with $47K restitution, usually restitution is in the amount lost, sometimes more, so far the restitution amount and the amount of the sentence doesn't match up to what Palladium was saying was lost.

Sheiring pleaded guilty on April 14 to a misdemeanor charge of embezzlement under $200. Sheiring was initially charged with embezzlement over $20,000, a felony.

"It was pled down to a misdemeanor, agreed to by the complainant, and there was restitution that was paid," said Maria Miller, assistant district attorney in the Wayne County (Mich.) Prosecutor's Office.

Asterios wrote:Right now i'm debating on whether to go draft a writ for the courts demanding an accounting of the backers financial monies placed into this KS which since i'm a backer I do have a right to get that done, and if the money was used for anything other then what it was intended for gonna be trouble a brewing.

Asterios wrote:Actually you should go check the law, this is cut and dry, i'm a Business Lawyer and I've filed writs like this for others, and its a simple matter for me to do, the law is on my side you know the laws which help prevent Fraud and such from being committed, not saying fraud is being committed but an exploratory review of the financials for this project will answer that.

Polygon.com wrote:...Legally backers do not hold the same rights as a typical investor might elsewhere, placing them in a difficult position if they found themselves financially cheated; however the contract that backers enter into in crowdsourcing schemes vary, he explains:

"It varies from site to site and from one project to another. In my recent article on crowdfunding in the Columbia Business Law Review, I identify five different types of crowdfunding: In the pure donation model of crowdfunding, donors get nothing in return for their contribution. In the pre-purchase model of crowdfunding, such as the recent Pebble Smartwatch offer that has been in the news, in return for their contribution, people receive the product the company is making. In the rewards model of crowdfunding, people who contribute receive non-financial rewards. For example, if the entrepreneur is funding a movie, people who contribute above a certain amount might get their names in the credits. In the lending model of crowdfunding, people are promised their money back with interest. In the equity model of crowdfunding, people are promised a share of the profits or returns of the business."

WITH KICKSTARTER IT'S ALWAYS BUYER BEWARE

Kickstarter fits into both the pre-purchase and rewards models. This means if pledging users offer money to a project, they are not legally owed a final product in return; rather, in accordance with Kickstarter's rules they are simply promised a separate reward for their pledge. Backers have not entered into an investment contract by donating toward a project, and because contributors are offered no financial return of any kind the legal implications of an investment contract are non-existent, says Bradford.

"Contributors on reward or pre-purchase sites are offered no financial return of any kind," he writes in the Columbia Business Law Review. "They are promised only a product or service — a consumption item. Therefore, no investment contract is being offered. And, because investors on reward or pre-purchase sites are not offered stock, notes, or anything else that falls within the definition of security, federal securities law does not apply."

The result is a crowdfunding model that offers backers no entitlement to products they've supported. Kickstarter officials contend that the company is simply a venue that provides the marketplace, and while the cost of a successful project is shared widely, users will not receive company protection for the risk of loss using the platform. Kickstarter is a buyer beware market, and as the backer's rights are limited to its Terms of Use, the system in its current form relies on the collective force of the community to keep its individuals safe.

Asterios wrote:Actually you should go check the law, this is cut and dry, i'm a Business Lawyer [...]

Jorel wrote:Thanks for shedding light on that current doomsday scenario.

Jorel wrote:It is exactly that...every day this guy has a new chicken little sky is falling issue that is gonna kill this whole campaign. These doomsday scenarios are getting very old and no one will care what he says...even if it is right.

Jorel wrote:Exactly. They aren't doing any good only harm.

Asterios wrote:Oh lordy let me try to explain this shall I, yes in most cases kickstarter backers are without recourse, hell they are not even protected by the Jobs act bill, in most cases yes Kickstarter backers are screwed, but that is not to say they are without recourse, there are always options available to them.

option 1: Did Palladium pay taxs on the money they brought in? several kickstarters getting nailed over this little tidbit, since they are not "selling" product they are not collecting sales tax, but it is considered income, so they are taxed on it, at a very high rate indeed.

option 2: now heres where it gets a little fuzzy, if I gave money to a friend for a business plan, do I do have the right to find out where the money went to? yes, will it **** my friend off? yes. same with a corporation I gave money to a company with a promise of product on or around a certain date, that date came and went and nothing, except others who did not give money and were not promised something, did get a chance to get something.

People have to remember that if the laws were the way you say they were, then you would be very screwed, since it would be a fraudsters paradise, and while the laws regarding kickstarters are very few and far between there are some laws there, and more to come, in fact right now a law going thru congress which would effect this form of crowdsourcing.

As to which Writ I will execute when I do if I do, is for me to know.

Furthermore do not expect a cursory glance of the internet to give you all the answers, laws are still done up on books and will always be done up on books, not too mention there are the cases that have occurred and so on.

as it goes people claim i'm a doomsayer and i'm the one who is going to destroy everything with my doomsaying, fine, I won't speak, this is my last post here in fact will not come back to this site since I find it too hate filled and to alarming.

Jorel wrote:They sure do act like he is though....

Asterios wrote:option 2: now heres where it gets a little fuzzy, if I gave money to a friend for a business plan, do I do have the right to find out where the money went to? [...]

Asterios wrote:Furthermore do not expect a cursory glance of the internet to give you all the answers, laws are still done up on books and will always be done up on books, not too mention there are the cases that have occurred and so on.

Asterios wrote:as it goes people claim i'm a doomsayer and i'm the one who is going to destroy everything with my doomsaying, fine, I won't speak, this is my last post here in fact will not come back to this site since I find it too hate filled and to alarming.

Seto Kaiba wrote:Huh... I wasn't aware that subjecting another person's unfounded claims to cursory fact-checking was considered alarming or hateful. The more you know...

bielmic wrote:You've been on the site long enough to know that doing the above cursory fact checking on murmurs and press releases ends up getting threads closed and red warnings sent out. The precedent has long been set on calling that "hate".

Involved Observer wrote:Thank you, bielmic, Jorel, Seto Kaiba, and everyone else for your posts. I have enjoyed the discussion so far, and would like to see more.