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Zer0 Kay wrote:

Crow Splat wrote:

glitterboy2098 wrote:actually the USA only had lonestar, and the dogboys. a project they never got completed before the cataclysmm

Mutant animals were a south american development. argentina, it would seem given the Mutant's lands post-rifts.

it was the south americans that did the amphibs (and got in a lot of trouble over it), and then in more secrecy, the mutant cats, the mutant birds, the mutant cabybaras, eventually the neo-humans. etc. going by the fluff in the SA books, the program developing the mutants even managed to remain operating for some years after the cataclysm hit.

RUE p. 144

Lone Star was completed well before the Cataclysm. The CS found it and all they had to do was turn the power on. The US had the capability of creating a massive army of Dog Boys but didn't due to public opinion.

Further, no South American country is named as being heavily involved in genetic research. On US, France, China, and "a few other countries." Not enough to say that some country in SA didn't make mutant animals, but they weren't exclusive to SA.

He didn't say Lonestar wasn't completed he said the dogboy project was never completed. You just showed that he was correct and provided the reason (highlighted above)

How can you still say that there is "Not enough to say that some country in SA didn't make mutant animals," when by canon it is impossible to say SA did not? It is called South America 2.

SA 1 and SA 2 actually, also WB7Underseas. the same South American corporation was involved in the project that created the Amphib's, as well as the Achilles Project, which produced not only the mutants that went on to create The Achilles Republic seen in SA2, but also the Mutant cats that escaped and became some of the founders of SA1's Omagua.

Project Achilles came about after the "Amphib scandal", when the Argentinian government arrested the researchers and gene-engineers involved, which were from a company called "ShaperCorp" (who's main rival was the US contractor "Tex-Am" which built the Lonestar complex.) the Argentinian government offered a deal.. pardons and resources, in exchange for ShaperCorp engineering mutant animals to use as disposable troops.
see WB9 pg138-139. the Omagua connection is WB6, Pg105 (WB6 is where "Project Achilles" was introduced)
the Amphib connection is found in the WB9 material.. WB7 left the identity vague in its write up. but WB9 was quite specific.


so basically, we have Argentina specializing in genetics as their "supertech" option.
the North American Alliance though had some genetics, some robotics, some MOM, some Juicers, some borgs.. just not as heavily as the other more narrowly focused nations like germany, poland, russia, japan, argentina, etc..

Because I haven't read either SA books. And not being able to say it doesn't exist coexists perfectly with evidence that it does in fact exist. You're creating an argument where there is none.

And Lone Star was completed. The tech was fully realized and the facility was built. It is even implied that Dog Boys were created in secret and who knows what else was experimented on.

You could take the viewpoint that it wasn't completed because they didn't actually make an army of Dog Boys but that's splitting hairs and arguing just to argue.

I find Juicers and Crazies fit in perfectly fine with Chaos Earth, along with most of the OCCs from Systems Failure.

glitterboy2098 wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:

Crow Splat wrote:

glitterboy2098 wrote:actually the USA only had lonestar, and the dogboys. a project they never got completed before the cataclysmm

Mutant animals were a south american development. argentina, it would seem given the Mutant's lands post-rifts.

it was the south americans that did the amphibs (and got in a lot of trouble over it), and then in more secrecy, the mutant cats, the mutant birds, the mutant cabybaras, eventually the neo-humans. etc. going by the fluff in the SA books, the program developing the mutants even managed to remain operating for some years after the cataclysm hit.

RUE p. 144

Lone Star was completed well before the Cataclysm. The CS found it and all they had to do was turn the power on. The US had the capability of creating a massive army of Dog Boys but didn't due to public opinion.

Further, no South American country is named as being heavily involved in genetic research. On US, France, China, and "a few other countries." Not enough to say that some country in SA didn't make mutant animals, but they weren't exclusive to SA.

He didn't say Lonestar wasn't completed he said the dogboy project was never completed. You just showed that he was correct and provided the reason (highlighted above)

How can you still say that there is "Not enough to say that some country in SA didn't make mutant animals," when by canon it is impossible to say SA did not? It is called South America 2.

SA 1 and SA 2 actually, also WB7Underseas. the same South American corporation was involved in the project that created the Amphib's, as well as the Achilles Project, which produced not only the mutants that went on to create The Achilles Republic seen in SA2, but also the Mutant cats that escaped and became some of the founders of SA1's Omagua.

Project Achilles came about after the "Amphib scandal", when the Argentinian government arrested the researchers and gene-engineers involved, which were from a company called "ShaperCorp" (who's main rival was the US contractor "Tex-Am" which built the Lonestar complex.) the Argentinian government offered a deal.. pardons and resources, in exchange for ShaperCorp engineering mutant animals to use as disposable troops.
see WB9 pg138-139. the Omagua connection is WB6, Pg105 (WB6 is where "Project Achilles" was introduced)
the Amphib connection is found in the WB9 material.. WB7 left the identity vague in its write up. but WB9 was quite specific.


so basically, we have Argentina specializing in genetics as their "supertech" option.
the North American Alliance though had some genetics, some robotics, some MOM, some Juicers, some borgs.. just not as heavily as the other more narrowly focused nations like germany, poland, russia, japan, argentina, etc..

Thought the U.S. Primary tech was supposed to be nano tech

Crow Splat wrote:Because I haven't read either SA books. And not being able to say it doesn't exist coexists perfectly with evidence that it does in fact exist. You're creating an argument where there is none.

And Lone Star was completed. The tech was fully realized and the facility was built. It is even implied that Dog Boys were created in secret and who knows what else was experimented on.

You could take the viewpoint that it wasn't completed because they didn't actually make an army of Dog Boys but that's splitting hairs and arguing just to argue.

So... Then your arguing your house rules are "right". Well like many other things these days what you feel doesn't change reality. Reality is that canon states the dogboy program was not complete, though Lonestar may be fully functional. Canon also shows that SA has and had a fully operational facility and produced mutants.

You can say that is how it is in your game but it is a ridiculous argument to say that canon is wrong just because you didn't read it.

Spinachcat wrote:I find Juicers and Crazies fit in perfectly fine with Chaos Earth, along with most of the OCCs from Systems Failure.

Fit in and should be there are two different things. I can see a Cosmoknight or demigod fitting in, that doesn't mean they were there by canon yet.

Zer0 Kay wrote:Fit in and should be there are two different things. I can see a Cosmoknight or demigod fitting in, that doesn't mean they were there by canon yet.

I can't see why any pre-Rifts tech would not be part of Chaos Earth. If a specific tech existed before the Apocalypse and continues to exist during Rifts, then it makes sense for that tech to exist in the time between, aka the Chaos Earth era.