Should the VR-057 to replace VR-052

[Jefffar]

I swear Robotech universe runs on the power of rule of cool.

Anyways would it be possible to create a carbine version of the HRG-70 somewhere down the line? I mean given technology development things get smaller down the line. Even then they have direct energy weapons down to pistol size so is it far fetch to have a rail gun (or even coil gun) to the size of an M-60?

New Generation Sourcebook, pg. 57

[Arnie100]

I swear Robotech universe runs on the power of rule of cool.

Anyways would it be possible to create a carbine version of the HRG-70 somewhere down the line? I mean given technology development things get smaller down the line. Even then they have direct energy weapons down to pistol size so is it far fetch to have a rail gun (or even coil gun) to the size of an M-60?

New Generation Sourcebook, pg. 57

I remember that! Its from the episode "Eulogy."

[glitterboy2098]

I swear Robotech universe runs on the power of rule of cool.

Anyways would it be possible to create a carbine version of the HRG-70 somewhere down the line? I mean given technology development things get smaller down the line. Even then they have direct energy weapons down to pistol size so is it far fetch to have a rail gun (or even coil gun) to the size of an M-60?

New Generation Sourcebook, pg. 57

I remember that! Its from the episode "Eulogy."

"Paper Hero", actually. Eulogy was the episode where Wolffe showed up. Paper Hero had Lunk stopping by the village where a friend of his had grown up, meaning to give his friends father a token of the son. only to find out the village has a nasty response to soldiers who come into town.

the Armor piercing cannon is given to lunk near the end, and he uses it to save the day. though sadly it never shows up again in the series.

[Arnie100]

I swear Robotech universe runs on the power of rule of cool.

Anyways would it be possible to create a carbine version of the HRG-70 somewhere down the line? I mean given technology development things get smaller down the line. Even then they have direct energy weapons down to pistol size so is it far fetch to have a rail gun (or even coil gun) to the size of an M-60?

New Generation Sourcebook, pg. 57

I remember that! Its from the episode "Eulogy."

"Paper Hero", actually. Eulogy was the episode where Wolffe showed up. Paper Hero had Lunk stopping by the village where a friend of his had grown up, meaning to give his friends father a token of the son. only to find out the village has a nasty response to soldiers who come into town.

the Armor piercing cannon is given to lunk near the end, and he uses it to save the day. though sadly it never shows up again in the series.

Oh, that's right! I think I got the episode titles mixed up! LOLOL...but I do remember the rail gun scaring the Invid. Maybe the reason Lunk stopped using it was they couldn't find any more ammo?

[glitterboy2098]

that would be my guess. the RPG has it as a prototype, so i doubt ammo for it would be easy to get. the fact that that town had one is odd enough, honestly.

[Chronicler]

Jeez I forgot about that one. Glitterboy did point out that it is a prototype, but wouldn't put it past the UEEF to mass produce it. Still like the idea of a carbine version of the HRG-70. Maybe more of an LRG now that O think about it.

[glitterboy2098]

well the RPG calls it a prototype. but it could be like the real world XM-25, and see limited production and field deployment as part of its development.

given the dialog in the show though about it, it sounds like the one Lunk got may have arrived fairly early in the invasion, so it may have been the grand-daddy to the HRG-70.

[guardiandashi]

considering that Robotechnology seems to allow some mechanisms to adjust/manipulate themselves I could see the railgun might have a "telescoping barrel" (or at least that they might develop a variation of the railgun that does.

basically the barrel in the "extension" either "opens up" the barrel allowing it to retract along and surrounding the barrel attached to the breach portion. or have a quick disconnect portion of the barrel.

[ShadowLogan]

With how much ammunition the cast of New Generation goes through, I am not sure that these missile systems aren't much more complicated than making your own Shotgun Shell.

They also seem to go through PC cells fairly fast, one has to wonder if all those missiles (at least for the Alpha/Beta) are actually Protoculture Cells.

You can use them for explosives as seen in "Separate Ways" (so we have the warhead) and they are used in a engines, meaning the release of energy can be controlled giving you a rocket engine.

[Zer0 Kay]

What, you've never heard of a Missile Tree?

Isn't that the store where you can buy anything for a missile? Rock, arrow, sling stone, thermal nuclear ICBM. Doesn't matter what kind, it gets you one item in the store.

Nah, I'm sure that's something to do with a Zentradi holiday... presents under the missile tree, y'know?

I thought that's where Zentradi kissed Micronians in the season where enough critical mass was met... You know where the variable x is used. The season the micronians call X Mass.

[Nautica]

Was reading through this forum and I'm actually laughing. Not at anyone so please don't take it this way. I just found it comical. The Q: of whether or not the 57 would/should/could replace the 52.

IMO ( and this is based on what everyone pointed out about there being no hard evidence or print to say one way or the other and base merely on the progression of the cyclone ) Yes. The 57 is meant to replace the 52. Everything ( save for armor ) is an upgrade over the 52.

Let me back up and point something out that has always left me lost in how we see the Alpha and Beta.

They were designed and produced pre-pioneer mission for the pioneer mission. Yes? The Cyclones came much, much later. Yes? That said. How many variants of the Alpha are there? According to the book you have what? I, H, and Z? Then the shadows and the super shadow according to the cannon. All versions have a cargo bay for a cyclone. ( WHY! THEY DIDN'T EXIST?! ) Also if you give any weight to the Sentinels. There are many instances where we see Alpha's flying in and landing on various worlds throughout the sentinels mission flying 2 passengers, well pilot plus passenger, you can't tell me they said hop into my lap, this makes no sense from a safety stand point. This is all based on common sense observations that have been easily overlooked over the years. Or just chalked up to "they used the bay for other stuff" shrug. Or they used it for the 10 series cyclone. O.o It's noted that they didn't have cyclones until much much later in the series because they couldnt get the bugs worked out. If you follow the Sentinels at all.

All that said, I put this to you. That there were 2 earlier Alpha designs and an earlier beta design that did not have said Cyclone Storage Bay. One of which was a two seater. That said. Is it a stretch to say the latest alpha designs didn't add a compartment or even a hard point to carry said HRG-70?

I believe that this is very probable. Based on the advancement of things. Even without the HRG-70, as someone else pointed out, it is still superior in nearly every way. And since it's still a 50's series cyclone i imagine it's still collapsible and storeable. ( All be it you'll have to remove the HRG-70 )

Also as pointed out by someone earlier, and as the book clearly states, the HRG-70 is able to be mounted on either the right or left side of the cyclone. Well you obviously have to detatch it to move it. More common sense.

All of this said, what really had me giggling was I was searching for further info on the VM-9 Silverback, and happened on this thread with all the Q's. If you put the VR-52F next to the Silverback and next to the pilot. Every aspect of the Silverback is larger by comparison. But the equipment ( which on paper is the same options and equipment as the 52 and 57 cyclones ) is equally larger in proportions. O.o How is it the same stuff? The mini missile mounts? Their longer and bulkier. Shouldn't they be SRM's? or maybe 2/tube 4 total? or something like that? The H260 is even larger when you compare it to the wheel size and again to how large the wheel is in comparison to the cyclone. Different gun w/ same basic design maybe? And how do those massive 3 fingered hands even wield it?

Sorry the last is out of place in this thread ignore it or don't. lol.

I do have a cyclone quastion maybe someone can assist me with. Did the VR-52 replace the 38S and R? It's armor is and improvement but the speed is dropped. Wouldn't the 30 series still be superior for scout/recon? and is any of the 50 series equipment compatible or vise versa?

[ShadowLogan]

MO ( and this is based on what everyone pointed out about there being no hard evidence or print to say one way or the other and base merely on the progression of the cyclone ) Yes. The 57 is meant to replace the 52. Everything ( save for armor ) is an upgrade over the 52.

Yes the -057 is meant to replace the -052 in infantry/heavy infantry roles, but it is not mentioned as replacing the -052 in emergency/survival roles.

The Cyclones came much, much later. Yes?

According to the 2E RPG (and RT.com's old Infopedia) the models in question (-038, -041, -05#) are late 2020s or later developments, but the sequence leaves the -01#/-02# series that could have been in the same role (I don't have Marines, but I've picked up that they did have Cyclones in service from these series numbers). Which likely means that the Cyclone could have been considered way back when.

How many variants of the Alpha are there? According to the book you have what? I, H, and Z? Then the shadows and the super shadow according to the cannon.

There are 5 that we know of, but the Z and X/S (Shadow) plus a drone (series, shadow) are said to be more recent developments. Even the Super system (which is more of an add-on I think than a distinct model) is "new". If the Genia Prototype (FTS graphic novel) is included, we get 6.

While the cargo bay is effectively know as the Cyclone Bay, that does not mean it was always known as such. The bay could have been used for other cargo missions (MR-40 is old, or another mecha we don't know about is used in this role, but replaced by the Cyclone later), though given various issues with the Alpha design one has to wonder if that is the best use of the volume EVEN if you put a Cyclone in it.

Part of the problem is timeline related in wanting to do certain things for RT that just did not have to be done that require additional effort to make work/sense.

All that said, I put this to you. That there were 2 earlier Alpha designs and an earlier beta design that did not have said Cyclone Storage Bay. One of which was a two seater. That said. Is it a stretch to say the latest alpha designs didn't add a compartment or even a hard point to carry said HRG-70?

There is no canon evidence for a two seater Alpha, Sentinels in its various forms has been de-canonized, about the only thing that remains is the "broad strokes". The Cargo Bay is not an ideal place to put a second seat, you would more likely have a customized cockpit/nose section.

The problem with adding a compartment to store the HRG-70 is where are you going to put it, and what are you potentially giving up for it? Not to mention is it really necessary for the role the Cyclone is to perform when carried by another mecha as a emergency/survival unit?

I do have a cyclone quastion maybe someone can assist me with. Did the VR-52 replace the 38S and R? It's armor is and improvement but the speed is dropped. Wouldn't the 30 series still be superior for scout/recon? and is any of the 50 series equipment compatible or vise versa?

In all likely hood the newer versions will replace the older versions in some missions, but not necessarily others. The VR-057 is slated to become the new heavy infantry model of Cyclone, the VR-041M is the only medic Cyclone, and the VR-038 is still in use for certain missions. As for equipment compatibility, based on the Silverback I would say that they are for the most part, but it probably isn't done much for a variety of reasons.

[Zer0 Kay]

Was reading through this forum and I'm actually laughing. Not at anyone so please don't take it this way. I just found it comical. The Q: of whether or not the 57 would/should/could replace the 52.

IMO ( and this is based on what everyone pointed out about there being no hard evidence or print to say one way or the other and base merely on the progression of the cyclone ) Yes. The 57 is meant to replace the 52. Everything ( save for armor ) is an upgrade over the 52.

Let me back up and point something out that has always left me lost in how we see the Alpha and Beta.

They were designed and produced pre-pioneer mission for the pioneer mission. Yes? The Cyclones came much, much later. Yes? That said. How many variants of the Alpha are there? According to the book you have what? I, H, and Z? Then the shadows and the super shadow according to the cannon. All versions have a cargo bay for a cyclone. ( WHY! THEY DIDN'T EXIST?! ) Also if you give any weight to the Sentinels. There are many instances where we see Alpha's flying in and landing on various worlds throughout the sentinels mission flying 2 passengers, well pilot plus passenger, you can't tell me they said hop into my lap, this makes no sense from a safety stand point. This is all based on common sense observations that have been easily overlooked over the years. Or just chalked up to "they used the bay for other stuff" shrug. Or they used it for the 10 series cyclone. O.o It's noted that they didn't have cyclones until much much later in the series because they couldnt get the bugs worked out. If you follow the Sentinels at all.

All that said, I put this to you. That there were 2 earlier Alpha designs and an earlier beta design that did not have said Cyclone Storage Bay. One of which was a two seater. That said. Is it a stretch to say the latest alpha designs didn't add a compartment or even a hard point to carry said HRG-70?

I believe that this is very probable. Based on the advancement of things. Even without the HRG-70, as someone else pointed out, it is still superior in nearly every way. And since it's still a 50's series cyclone i imagine it's still collapsible and storeable. ( All be it you'll have to remove the HRG-70 )

Also as pointed out by someone earlier, and as the book clearly states, the HRG-70 is able to be mounted on either the right or left side of the cyclone. Well you obviously have to detatch it to move it. More common sense.

All of this said, what really had me giggling was I was searching for further info on the VM-9 Silverback, and happened on this thread with all the Q's. If you put the VR-52F next to the Silverback and next to the pilot. Every aspect of the Silverback is larger by comparison. But the equipment ( which on paper is the same options and equipment as the 52 and 57 cyclones ) is equally larger in proportions. O.o How is it the same stuff? The mini missile mounts? Their longer and bulkier. Shouldn't they be SRM's? or maybe 2/tube 4 total? or something like that? The H260 is even larger when you compare it to the wheel size and again to how large the wheel is in comparison to the cyclone. Different gun w/ same basic design maybe? And how do those massive 3 fingered hands even wield it?

Sorry the last is out of place in this thread ignore it or don't. lol.

I do have a cyclone quastion maybe someone can assist me with. Did the VR-52 replace the 38S and R? It's armor is and improvement but the speed is dropped. Wouldn't the 30 series still be superior for scout/recon? and is any of the 50 series equipment compatible or vise versa?

You didn't hear the stuff changes sizes because they're all related to the One Railgun. Ya know:
One railgun to rule them all, One railgun to find them,
One railgun to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.
It resizes when a cyclone chopped it of the hand of the evil silverback.

I like the idea that they could put three of the railguns into a gunpod and get descent damage AND stow the gun for the cyclone as well as have two others for any freedom fighters who may find the wreck.

[Zer0 Kay]

As a get away cyclone the lighter is a better option than the battler. Since most pilots aren't familiar with the weapon systems then simply use the faster, lighter unit to get the pilot out of there. He can use his gallant or better have storage containers on the lights gauntlets each with a standard weapon.

[The Artist Formerly]

This is a question that has been on my mind as of late. I have been running a Robotech New Generation Game now for a year and its coming to the point where the VR-057 will start to appear. What I’m wondering is should the VR-057 replace the VR-052. In terms of armor protection and firepower the VR-057 is superior and in all other aspects the two cyclones are equal. As far as if a VR-057 can be stored on an Alpha or Beta well there is no dimensions given for the cyclone compartment only a 500-pound weight limit and the fully armed VR-057 comes under the weight limit. By using that rule a VR-057 could be stored in an Alpha Beta and the emergency vehicle. So with this in mind would the VR-057 replace the VR-052 or would the two cyclones take up similar roles to the VR-011 and VR-017 with the VR-052 being the basic infantry model and the VR-057 being for heavy weapon squad members and storm commando strike teams. In the book is stated that there is a rumor that it will replace the VR-052 but is that rely true. Are there compelling reasons to replace the VR-052 with the VR-057.

Really, it comes down to one thing. Price difference. The VR-52 cyclone, in this case, is a back up vehicle for a pilot who has been dismounted (shot down). Consider that role and how it fits into your game. If your game environment has supply problems, then likely not. If the resources needed to manufacture these things are readily available and labor is manageable, then yes.

A happy medium between the two is "no, but..." No they aren't standard but certain special units can have then assigned by request. In that case, the push would be that the cyclone cavalry should get them first, and some time down the line, the VR-52 will be totally phased out in favor of the VR-57.