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Incriptus wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:A tangental question: Is it ever explained how Naruni establishes interdimensional trade in the first place? Splurgorth have their pyramids, but dispite being supernatural, True Naruni don't appear to have any magical bent, and if they have some kind of technological interdimensional capability they never say so.

Do they just pay the Promethians for use of their McGuffins (The Rift gates) for everything, or what?

It may also be worth noting humans were experimenting with teleportation/dimensional travel pre-rifts in Hiroshima and Texas. So Tech based dimensional travel isn't really off the table.

True, both experiments had less than ideal results, but the remnants of the Republic of Japan in particular seem to have improved a little since their return.

Nightmask wrote:

SolCannibal wrote:

Khanibal wrote:

SolCannibal wrote:

Khanibal wrote:South America 2 p. 103
Domed building housing the Dimensional Gate System. Incoming rifts, etc. are directed to a large platform looking like a soundstage. A dimensional beam projector resembling a tank gun can shift an area up to the size of a football field to another dimension.
Fluff text of the Dakir race paints them as more advanced than Naruni, but not drastically so.

What may or not be hyperbole, depending on one's take of things or preferences. Either way, it makes good parallel and reference material for inspiration.

It's South America. I wonder if they really meant futbal field.

I meant hyperbole on how more advanced the Dakir truly are in relation to the Naruni, but yeah, that too.

Not hyperbole, given when the Legion rose up against their oppressors their man-sized opponents had hand weapons that dealt damage more suited to starship weapons and personal force fields equal to what you'd see from smaller starships which Naruni has never demonstrated anything close to. Something like energy weapons that dealt 1d6X100 mega-damage and force fields that took thousands of MDC in damage before collapsing. I can't remember seeing anyone close to that other than the Invaders and the Dominators.

Yeah the Dakair are solidly in the Elder Race category.
Remember the inertia weapons that they legion uses? A technology no one else in the megaverse has or has the vaguest idea how to duplicate?
Yeah, that was their second tier stuff for the hired help.
So when your second or third best is one of the top technologies in the Megaverse today...

It beggars the question of why they are playing space merc contractors - and sucking at it - instead of leaving a far bigger foot(pseudopod-)print in many parts of the Megaverse, honestly.

Must admit i'm tempted to depowering their stuff closer to Naruni Enterprises 's level, what would make them pretty big anyway, considering the corporation still is a reasonably big deal in advanced places like the Three Galaxies.

Dystopianman wrote:The Naruni aren't the only game in town. Magefire is there too. Ultimately their products are inferior to the basic CCW weaponry. (Compare the Silver Hawks to Naruni PA or the HI-Laser rifles and the GR rifles to the Naruni Plasma weaponry.).

What I just don't understand is why dimensional travelling cities like Lazlo have not tried to initiate trade ties with a place like Center (which would have no trade restrictions due to it's nature).

Center alone could supply the city's trade needs.

In a setting where the premise is dimensional travel and it's effects on Earth, the lack of interdimentional trade at least by Rift friendly powers makes 0 sense, considering plenty of crossover (like the Minion War) has occurred at this point.

In response to the above post about the ships being shot down as soon as they're rifted in, perhaps, but not sub capitals like frigates and whatnot. Those would be harder to spot.

Don't forget that things like gold and silver appear to hold their value cross dimension (reference value of a ton of gold in phase world vs Rifts earth).

And most of all. Silverhawks.

EDIT: I do feel compelled to acknowledge that the splugorth are a notable exception to this.

Where have you seen the price of precious metals on Phase World and Rifts Earth?

Mlp7029 wrote:

Dystopianman wrote:The Naruni aren't the only game in town. Magefire is there too. Ultimately their products are inferior to the basic CCW weaponry. (Compare the Silver Hawks to Naruni PA or the HI-Laser rifles and the GR rifles to the Naruni Plasma weaponry.).

What I just don't understand is why dimensional travelling cities like Lazlo have not tried to initiate trade ties with a place like Center (which would have no trade restrictions due to it's nature).

Center alone could supply the city's trade needs.

In a setting where the premise is dimensional travel and it's effects on Earth, the lack of interdimentional trade at least by Rift friendly powers makes 0 sense, considering plenty of crossover (like the Minion War) has occurred at this point.

In response to the above post about the ships being shot down as soon as they're rifted in, perhaps, but not sub capitals like frigates and whatnot. Those would be harder to spot.

Don't forget that things like gold and silver appear to hold their value cross dimension (reference value of a ton of gold in phase world vs Rifts earth).

And most of all. Silverhawks.

EDIT: I do feel compelled to acknowledge that the splugorth are a notable exception to this.

Where have you seen the price of precious metals on Phase World and Rifts Earth?

There's a general statement that trade goods do much better with things like food, precious metals, etc being worth roughly the same number of credits, and weapons being 50-ish percent of their value (And it specifically calls out NG weapons as being loved by the freedom fighters of the FWC), but the actual credits themselves are 10:1.

Lazlo just doesn't have the cash (as far as we know, of course, there could be all sorts of resources available that we aren't aware of as it hasn't been detailed) from the information we have, nor the resources, to be able to buy anything expensive from Phase World. They could likely afford to buy cheap goods like foodstuffs, and medical gear if they were beseiged, and basic parts and bobs.

But phase weapons en masse? Nope. Fighters? Good luck, particularly the very effective ones with good shields. An actual space-ship (even a Destroyer) is 300+ million credits. (And, really, a Hunter-class Destroyer on its own isn't going to present a real problem for the CS or any other large military power. They really aren't that tough. Nor are they packing that much firepower. A swarm of attack fighters and SAMs will bring a Hunter down fairly quickly. )

You're not getting anything much cheaper than that - and you can even only get a Hunter if you are a friendly government that is part of the CCW. Same with their Power Armor and 'bots. Those aren't available on the open market in most cases.

The actual warships available to the public are Naruni, and hideously expensive.

Espandon Frigates are half a billion credits. 3.5 billion for the Conquistador to go with them (and you need 4)... so 5.5 billion credits - or, in Earth Universal Credits.. 55 billion.

Even fighters are expensive - 50+ million. The really goods ones over 100 each. And while they have great weapons compared to earth fighter craft and are (generally) faster even in atmo, there is no way Lazlo could afford enough of them to matter against the CS or FQ's air forces. Theyll just throw 4x your number at you and swamp your defenses. Youll get a great kill ratio before you die, but die you will.

SolCannibal wrote:It beggars the question of why they are playing space merc contractors - and sucking at it - instead of leaving a far bigger foot(pseudopod-)print in many parts of the Megaverse, honestly.

Must admit i'm tempted to depowering their stuff closer to Naruni Enterprises 's level, what would make them pretty big anyway, considering the corporation still is a reasonably big deal in advanced places like the Three Galaxies.

Well, if you read the fluff text, the Dakir don't sell weapons, they rent out mercenaries. RARELY you might stumble across one working as a soldier itself. Theories abound, but not much is known about them.

Khanibal wrote:

SolCannibal wrote:It beggars the question of why they are playing space merc contractors - and sucking at it - instead of leaving a far bigger foot(pseudopod-)print in many parts of the Megaverse, honestly.

Must admit i'm tempted to depowering their stuff closer to Naruni Enterprises 's level, what would make them pretty big anyway, considering the corporation still is a reasonably big deal in advanced places like the Three Galaxies.

Well, if you read the fluff text, the Dakir don't sell weapons, they rent out mercenaries. RARELY you might stumble across one working as a soldier itself. Theories abound, but not much is known about them.

I know they sell mercenary services and not their tech per se. Sounds even ludricous if their tech is so much better than other star-faring groups in the setting.

SolCannibal wrote:It beggars the question of why they are playing space merc contractors - and sucking at it - instead of leaving a far bigger foot(pseudopod-)print in many parts of the Megaverse, honestly.

Must admit i'm tempted to depowering their stuff closer to Naruni Enterprises 's level, what would make them pretty big anyway, considering the corporation still is a reasonably big deal in advanced places like the Three Galaxies.

Limited overall numbers and quantity for one speculative guess; nothing says how fast they can produce any new stuff of the same caliber. It's not unreasonable to think such Unique technology involves rare materials that are availible only in limited quantities no matter how much money you have (and they likely lack the advanced star mining or synthisization technology used by the Dakair, or however they do it). Another possibility: Having power doesn't automatically make you ambitious. it could well be they don't actually want to rule, it's a lot of work and responsibility and costs a lot of money, and detracts from the fun of fighting.

Which is most likely the answer. It's not that they couldn't carve out an empire, it's that they simply don't want the responsibility and trouble that entails.

Not to mention if they start expanding and ruling, then other megaversal powers stop seeing them as assets to be treasured but potential rivals to be eliminated. Better tech or no, it's not so good that the splurgorth, TGE or Naruni couldn't likely overwhelm them eventually through sheer numbers, their tech is in shouting range. Especially when you consider all the stats on Naruni gear is purely their "export" technology and any Naruni tech used by Naruni's own forces has all the stats outright doubled. So Naruni's real tech is much closer.

SolCannibal wrote:

Khanibal wrote:

SolCannibal wrote:It beggars the question of why they are playing space merc contractors - and sucking at it - instead of leaving a far bigger foot(pseudopod-)print in many parts of the Megaverse, honestly.

Must admit i'm tempted to depowering their stuff closer to Naruni Enterprises 's level, what would make them pretty big anyway, considering the corporation still is a reasonably big deal in advanced places like the Three Galaxies.

Well, if you read the fluff text, the Dakir don't sell weapons, they rent out mercenaries. RARELY you might stumble across one working as a soldier itself. Theories abound, but not much is known about them.

I know they sell mercenary services and not their tech per se. Sounds even ludricous if their tech is so much better than other star-faring groups in the setting.

It is only silly if we assume that they are mentally the same as us (modern 21st century western humans).
They might NOT be in this for the purpose of making the most money possible for instance. The money might be a sideline.
Off the top of my head:
They might be doing this as a way to get their eyes and ears (every mercenary was riddled with monitoring gear) into places where they can keep tabs on others (like the Promethians, or keep an eye out for reports of Dominators, or what have you)

They might be doing this as a religious thing (perhaps they worship a god of mercenaries... or of slavers, or deception or what ever)

They might be doing this as a way to get their eyes and ears out so that they could collect information for future plans... say if you wanted to invade the 3Gs you might want to get detailed information on the local militaries... Which renting out mercenaries who will fight in most of the conflicts on both sides would get you

The point is that they are an Elder Race. Every Elder Race we know of so far is pretty inscrutable, or obsessed with odd tasks in ways that dont make sense to the rest of us. After all the known Elder Races are Dakair, Promethians, Dominators. With the Gene-Tech, Gene-Splicers, and UTI guys from JU, and the Intruders as possible others.

eliakon wrote:

SolCannibal wrote:

Khanibal wrote:

SolCannibal wrote:It beggars the question of why they are playing space merc contractors - and sucking at it - instead of leaving a far bigger foot(pseudopod-)print in many parts of the Megaverse, honestly.

Must admit i'm tempted to depowering their stuff closer to Naruni Enterprises 's level, what would make them pretty big anyway, considering the corporation still is a reasonably big deal in advanced places like the Three Galaxies.

Well, if you read the fluff text, the Dakir don't sell weapons, they rent out mercenaries. RARELY you might stumble across one working as a soldier itself. Theories abound, but not much is known about them.

I know they sell mercenary services and not their tech per se. Sounds even ludricous if their tech is so much better than other star-faring groups in the setting.

It is only silly if we assume that they are mentally the same as us (modern 21st century western humans).
They might NOT be in this for the purpose of making the most money possible for instance. The money might be a sideline.
Off the top of my head:
They might be doing this as a way to get their eyes and ears (every mercenary was riddled with monitoring gear) into places where they can keep tabs on others (like the Promethians, or keep an eye out for reports of Dominators, or what have you)

They might be doing this as a religious thing (perhaps they worship a god of mercenaries... or of slavers, or deception or what ever)

They might be doing this as a way to get their eyes and ears out so that they could collect information for future plans... say if you wanted to invade the 3Gs you might want to get detailed information on the local militaries... Which renting out mercenaries who will fight in most of the conflicts on both sides would get you

The point is that they are an Elder Race. Every Elder Race we know of so far is pretty inscrutable, or obsessed with odd tasks in ways that dont make sense to the rest of us. After all the known Elder Races are Dakair, Promethians, Dominators. With the Gene-Tech, Gene-Splicers, and UTI guys from JU, and the Intruders as possible others.

There are eight explictly named Elder Races in Fleets of the Three Galaxies in addition to the Dominators. Boiaw, the Moochay, the Rothamril, the Prometheai, the Ferothold Gardeners, one who's name was left undefined (Insert GM race here), and the Star Elves themselves (Who were just evolved and primitive rather than advanced at this time)

I dont recall the Dakir being detailed as “from the Three Galaxies”; they operated in the 3G, for sure (and maybe still do? Was never clear, iirc. My SA2 book is still in a box and im too lazy to dig it out right now. So someone correct me if im wrong here.)... but i dont think they are native to the 3G universe/dimension.

And as Eli said, their motivations dont have to make sense in to the minds of 21st century western humans. We have no idea what their society or personalities are like.

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:I dont recall the Dakir being detailed as “from the Three Galaxies”; they operated in the 3G, for sure (and maybe still do? Was never clear, iirc. My SA2 book is still in a box and im too lazy to dig it out right now. So someone correct me if im wrong here.)... but i dont think they are native to the 3G universe/dimension.

And as Eli said, their motivations dont have to make sense in to the minds of 21st century western humans. We have no idea what their society or personalities are like.

The Dakir homeworld is said to be unknown to either the Naruni, the Splurgoth, and True Atlanteans. I'd say that you are right about them not being native to the 3G dimension.