How powerful can Splugorth Empires be?

[SolCannibal]

Also, how do you people feel about the idea of lesser minion alternatives to the Slavers or Blind Warrior Women?

Depending on the game, and the Splugorth...I'm all for it. I'm eager to see what you come up with.

Nothing specific so far, just crossed my mind that neither of them offer much more than some run-of-the-mill DBs or the psychic RCCs.

Also a random mental image about wild psi-stalkers with Ogre blood and who knows what type of beasts under it as a pack, but in retrospect i don't think they would make good minion material: Psi-Stalker instincts would go in overdrive living around supernatural intelligences like the Sploogs and their favored servants....

I'm currently working on a random generation table set for Splugorth Kingdoms, though it won't thoroughly cover all the specific bases(some of which are rather hard to quantify), but it should be a start for story grist and hopefully kickstart people's imaginations if they want Splugorth encounters. .

That i'll be waiting to see.

[Axelmania]

[

(Alternatively, i could make a literally larger than life parody using Rahu Man and other giant races. Could even mash into my Giant Empire in Greenland, hmmmm....)

In that case I'd go with a Gigante, since their random mutation table allows for multiple limbs.

Cernun approve of this message.

*now wondering if gigantes or jeridu of rahu could get even more arms from bio-wizardry*
*and then which of them can be necromancers to attach even more*
*and then which could get minor super abilities to get even more*

The "hundred handed" don't literally have five-score... but perhaps SOMEONE might

[taalismn]

[

*now wondering if gigantes or jeridu of rahu could get even more arms from bio-wizardry*
*and then which of them can be necromancers to attach even more*
*and then which could get minor super abilities to get even more*

The "hundred handed" don't literally have five-score... but perhaps SOMEONE might

I'd consider some penalties for lack of space on the body frame(muscle cramps at the least).
Maybe particularly prevalent multiple personality disorder among the bioborg insanities, with it really truly being a case of not knowing what your third or fourth left hand is doing. You could have a case where your other personalties can actually be doing stuff against the wishes of the dominant personality...and behind their backs too, depending on the placement of the limbs.

Also, for any observers watching them in action, roll vs dizziness just watching ALL THOSE ARMS moving.

[eliakon]

On a little aside, while re-reading WB2, it really got my attention that Mind Bleeders are mentioned among the "Common divisions of O.C.C.s among True Atlanteans" along with Mind Melters. About 5% of the True Atlanteans are Mind Melters and 4% Mind Bleeders (no other psychics in noteworthy numbers, unless you count Mystics). Among the Aehriman the percentage rises to 6% each.

It got me thinking if the True Atlanteans might have some connection to the pressence of those two R.C.C.s amidst humanity too... Or if they have some rare, peculiar O.C.C.s that are mechanically close to either. PF has something called Mind Mage that is similar to the Mind Melter, no?


Also, how do you people feel about the idea of lesser minion alternatives to the Slavers or Blind Warrior Women?

I would expect it honestly.
Right now we have, canonically, no less than 8 minion races (sell 7 full minions and the Saphra who are on the cusp)
Altara
High Lord
Kitani
Kyndians
Saphra*
Shakadan
Slavers
Zuwadza


Bultungin
Kasaro


Almost certainly vast populations of Bultungians, Kreeghor, and Bultungian remain in various Splugorth Empires

And lets not forget their populations of Humans, and True Atlantian slaves.

I would expect them to have plenty of minions. Honestly in my games I have only the Slavers, Altara and Kyndians as 'universal' minions and everyone else has a few pet races of their own. Thus only Splyncryth has the Kitanni. I simply replace them with some other technological race and modify the gear for any other lord. So Deseleth would have some Techno race (like the Kreegor…) ect.

[SolCannibal]

[

*now wondering if gigantes or jeridu of rahu could get even more arms from bio-wizardry*
*and then which of them can be necromancers to attach even more*
*and then which could get minor super abilities to get even more*

The "hundred handed" don't literally have five-score... but perhaps SOMEONE might

I'd consider some penalties for lack of space on the body frame(muscle cramps at the least).
Maybe particularly prevalent multiple personality disorder among the bioborg insanities, with it really truly being a case of not knowing what your third or fourth left hand is doing. You could have a case where your other personalties can actually be doing stuff against the wishes of the dominant personality...and behind their backs too, depending on the placement of the limbs.

Also, for any observers watching them in action, roll vs dizziness just watching ALL THOSE ARMS moving.

Imagine doing walk like an egyptian with them all.

[taalismn]

Random Splugorth Kingdom Generation Charts
(or, Kingdoms of the Squidly)

#”Let me tell you of the Glory of the Splugorth properly...in song.”#

Here’s a few random roll(or choose) charts for making up the realms of Splugorth intelligences across the Megaverse.

A. Size:
#”All the stars you see in the sky, and all those unseen behind them, are MINE.”#

How many worlds does the Splugorth hold in thrall?
 
    01-14%--- Single Planet/Solar System, but the Splugorth may have influence far beyond its single solar system
    15-39%---  Small: 1d4+1 Star Systems
    40- 55%--- Modest: 3d6 Star Systems
    56-70%--- Extensive: 1d4x10 Star Systems
    71-88%--- Large: 4d6x10 Star Systems
    88-98%--- Massive: 1d4x100 Star Systems---Few such massive star kingdoms exist, and garner the immediate attention of major powers like the TGE and CCW, who will seek them out as allies, or regard them as possible opponents.
99-00%----Titanic: 2d6x100 Star Systems ----These are the properties of ancient and truly feared alien intelligences, commanding vast sprawling empires. On the minus side, such enromous holdings can be difficult, if not impossible, to thoroughly police, so it is possible to chip away at fringe worlds with little fear of repercussions.

B. Extradimensional Holdings
“...I’m still trying to get over the apparent fact that Blyncress has a penthouse apartment in -Paris-.”

What territories the PCs see may be only part of the Splugorth’s domain; like an iceberg, many Splugorth possess vast holdings sprawling across sever al alternate universe. Depending on the size of these holdings, they could represent a substantial manpower and resource pool the Splugorth can call upon for military actions.
Note that moving reinforcements from outdimensional territories may take time, in some cases longer than summoning forces from other worlds in the same universe.

01-30% None---The Splugorth’s territory is all concentrated on one universe
31-45% Small---The Splugorth possesses 1d6 small extradimensional properties, outposts, or territories.
46- 75% Substantial---The Splugorth has a number of extredimensional holdings roughly equal to 25% of its home plane holdings.
76-85% Major---The Splugorth can claim worlds in number equal to 50% of its main holdings.
86- 98% Massive--- The Splugorth’s extradimensional presence is equal to 100+10d10% of its ‘home’ holdings.
99-00% Pocket Universe(s)---The Splugorth lays claim to 1d4 pocket universes over which it exercises sole conrtrol.


C. Economic Focus:

@“ There’s good money in breeding Calians; they take orders well, clean up themselves, and don’t mind if anybody watches while they breed. The Demonics just eat them up.”@

While the economy of the Splugorth realm tend, of necessity, to be fairly diverse, one thing tends to dominate it.

01-40% Slaves---The kingdom’s focus is capturing and selling slaves, Breeding and training slaves is also part of this economy, as well as selling loot taken during slave raids as a sideline.
41-65% Agriculture---The kingdom trades in farmed products, though this can run the gamut from raising sugarcane, Kryygorth Shellbacks and Pegasi, to breeding elves specifically for meat.
66-75% Industry---The Splugorth realm either produces new indigenous designs, or else shamelessly copies and forges the work of others.
76-85% Trade---The Splugorth have opened their ports as trade centers free of restrictions as to what is being traded. This makes the kingdom attractive to pirates and other lawless elements.
86-90 Biowizardry----The kingdom seeks to compete with the GeneSplicers in offering bio-transmutation services. Side lines may include the rental of bioborg supersoldiers, biotoxins, and biosystem implants.
91-00% Magic---The realm trades in magic; mages and magic items, including Rune artifacts.

D. Attitude
“The signs and portents do not lie; the Harvest is coming soon. The Ones of the Eye will come from the Black Sky to take the fittest and plumpest of our young away.”

How does the Splugorth behave towards outsiders?

01-10% (Dangerously) Friendly--The Splugorth behave like the friendly, but dangerously clueless, neighbor who’s eager to show off his new shotgun by waving it around in your face, or ignore commonsense driving their big SUV. They like and patronizingly treat their smaller neighbors, but are blissfully unaware that handing out biotech could be dangerous, or that introducing the soft and peaceful Meebits to their other friends the Horune is introducing a hamster to a hungry wolf. These Splugorth could be your best buddies, or your worst nightmare, and often are both. Travellers have only a 10% chance of being attacked or enslaved(may be stopped and inspected, and subjected to some minor larceny), unless they are clearly enemies or the Splugorth or otherwise provoke the minions.
11-30% Neutral---The Splugorth generally ignore their immediate neighbors as either too weak or too pathetic to make good slaves. The Splugorth will mount expeditions to more promising and greener territories, but generally leave the immediate locale alone. They’ll react only if trespassed upon or otherwise provoked. Travellers coming too near Splugorth space have a 25% chance of being captured and enslaved.
31-85% Herdsmen---The Splugorth regard their immediate neighbors as assets in place, and regularly(every year or perhaps every century) raid them for slaves and other resources. Any growing resistance is marked for special attention, and in some cases entire planets may be bombed back to stone age-levels of technology to cull resistance. Travellers in the region have a 75% chance of being enslaved if caught.
86-00% Irritated Eyeball---The Splugorth randomly lashes out at neighbors whenever agitated, to send a message to those who would defy it, or to blood its warriors. Entire worlds may be exterminated or depopulated at whim, and any travellers caught in the area will be enslaved or killed. (+15% to Military Forces)

E. Status
“Vohcryth’s not been the same since those Temporal Raiders attempted to assassinate him. All he does now is sit in his palace on Kolgan Prime and build ever thicker defenses to surround himself with. He’s withdrawn his best troops from his frontiers to reinforce his personal bodyguard. Now, I tell you, would be the time to take the Voldagate Marches from him! ”

What is the current state of power in the Splugorth’s domain?

01-25% Expansionist---Whether the Splugorth in charge is young and just inherited or took over the kingdom, or old and experienced, the alien intelligence is looking to acquire even more. The kingdom’s legions are full of confidence, massing for campaigns, and spoling for fights(+20% to Military Forces) .
26-50% Holding On---The realm is working, but its small gains are balanced by minor losses. The minions are confident, however, and remain steadfast.(+5% to Military Forces)
51-75% Stagnant----The Splugorth Intelligence has become complacent, or else has been grinding its gears for some time, unable to make headway. The kingdom remains functional, but problems keep cropping up almost faster than solutions can put them down. The borders are guarded, but haven’t changed in centuries, and its strengths and weaknesses are well known. The minions remain loyal, but have fallen into routine, and there are grumbles of discontent in some quarters. (-5% to Military Forces)
76-00% Imperiled---Whether through neglect or mismanagement, the kingdom is in a downward spiral. The Splugorth in charge may be young and inexperienced, or old and decrepit, but the result is the same; the kingdom is losing ground, the minions are dispirited and growing increasingly desperate, and the defenses are withdrawing, rather than advancing.(-20% to Military Forces)


F. Military Force
#“Bring me victory. Nothing else is acceptable. Casualties are not an excuse for lack of success.”#

This is a relative measure of how powerful a military force the Splugorth can raise to defend its realm and conduct offensive operations elsewhere.
However, even a weak Splugorth can be a dangerous adversary, and may surround itself with a powerful bodyguard, even if its military forces elsewhere are weak.

(Option) Roll TWICE, once for land forces and the second time for space forces. This can result in kingdom forces that are strong on the ground but dependent on rifts to move about, with only token aerospace support, or Spligorth domains that rely on seizing the high ground and extorting subjugated populations from orbit, because the minion forces lack the numbers and firepower to engage in planetary conquest.

01-15% Weak---The Splugorth’s forces are weak; either they are poorly equipped and trained to handle heavy combat, or they’re so overstretched in all their repsonsobilities that there are gaping holes in the lines. Entire worlds may be left with only a token force, and assembling any large cocentration of troops or warhships will take 2d4 years to carry out, and then, only likely with stripping defenses from other sectors, or mass conscriptions.
16-45% Stalwart----The Splugorth has enough troops and equipment to maintain a stiff defense, and still have enough left over to conduct the occasional raid. Building up a full army or battle fleeet may take a year or more(1d4 years) to assemble.
46-90% Strong----The domain is heavily defended, with significant numbers of troops and reserves able to be deployed to trouble spots. The Splugorth can assemble a strike force within 1d4 months, with reinforcements coming in 2d4 months.
91-00% Warmonger---The Splugorth has fully equipped armies/fleets on virtually all of its properties, and can mount offensives within 2d4 weeks, with follow-up waves following in 3d4 weeks.


G. Advantages

“As long as Vorkrythh controls the Endsian Webway exit to this galactic arm, the Free Worlds will have to pay its prices to smuggle arms into the sector.The only alternative is through Imperial space, and the Kreeghor have sewn up the travel lanes so that’s suicidal for the smugglers.”

What special aspects does the Splugorth’s domain enjoy?

01-20% None; aside from the fact that the Splugorth is occupying the region, there’s really nothing currently to recommend it real estate-wise.
21-25% Friendly Neighbors---The Splugorth’s territory is shared with the realms of other Splugorth who have treaties making them effective buffers to each other’s space, ir not outright allies.
26-35% Fearful Neighbors----The Splugorth’s domain is bordered by multiple lesser polities who would rather give the alien intelligence a wide berth rather than confornt them.
36-45% Trade Hub---- The Splugorth’s territory is squatting on an important travel and trade lane. Whether they like it or not, travellers will have to negotiate with the Splugorth for passage and the right to trade in its space.
46-60% Resource Lode---The Splugorth’s properties are rife with natural resources that can be used to trade or harvested for industrial production.
61-65% Monopoly---The Splugorth has a lock-grip on access to a valuable and unique resource that everybody else covets, but must meet the Spplugorth’s terms to acquire.
66-80% Ambient Zone----The Splugorth’s territory is permeated with special properties that make magic easier to perform and dimensional gating easier.
81-90% Choke Point---The Splugorth controls access to a strategic location such as a travel lane, wormhole, or navigation way.
91-99% Dimensional Nexus(Minor) ---The Splugorth holds control over a regular dimensional rift nexus that allows access to 2d6 other universes
-00% Dimensional Hub(Major)--Perhaps not as extensive as Phaseworld or Rifts Earth, but this multi-dimension nexus still has regular access to some 4d6x10 universes.

H.. Disadvantages
“Milord, I’m sure that the rumors of the planet you’ve chosen as your new base of operations being a congregating point for the Dominators is GREATLY exaggerated. Nobody has seen any sign of them here in CENTURIES. I think we can safely say they will not pose a concern to your moving in.”

What problems does the the Splugorth’s domain have?

01-20% None---Aside from any possible management issues, the Splugorth’s realm has outstandng or special problem conditions.
21-30% Unfriendly Neighbors----The Splgorth’s kingdom is bordered by rival Splugorth who have decided they want to expand into the former’s territory.
31-45% Belligerent Neighborhood---The Splugorth’s neighbors, though all minor polities, have gotten the gumption to unite against a common enemy, contesting the Splugorth’s control in its region.
46-55% Bad Conditions---The region of space the realm is located in possesses properties that make communications difficult, and dimensional transits hard, ir not nearly impossible.
56-60% Coming Apocalypse---The local conditions CAN get worse, catastrophically so; the Splugorth’s realm is sitting next to a supergiant star that’s ready to pop in a supernova, is in the path of one or more wandering black holes, is sited atop a region of space/time about to suffer a harmonic disruption, or is about to flip into another dimension. There are rumblings of the approaching cataclysm, but not enough to cause immediate action, and uncertain enough to cast doubt on if any is really necessary(or else, the local Splugorth is making contingency plans that will result in near-term disruptions in the region).
61-75% Growing Rebellion----There’s a growing rebellion inside the realm, fomented and fueled by outside agitators, that is gaining momentum. The Splugorth’s enforcer-minions have tried to stamp out the dissent, but it hasn’t done any good, and the trouble keeps growing. Outwardly, the kingdom may appear peaceful and prosperous, but violence is brewing beneath the surface.
76-90% Targeted---The Splugorth is on a celestial hit list that’s coming due soon. The enemy could be CosmoKnights, the TransGalactic Empire, a vengeful god, Ancient race, or other alien intelligences. These enemies aren’t the regular Threat-of-the-Week variety of opposition; they’re deadly serious and will come well-prepared to bring the alien intelligence down.
91-00% Cursed---An essential part of the Splugorth’s realm is about to, or is in the process of, suffer a calamity; the Splugorth intelligence may be suffering a malaise that is affectig its ability to make decisions, the animals producing the valuable elixir may be dying of genetic fatigue, a plague is sweeping the ranks of the realm’s protecting warrior species. or something similar. It may take centuries, or years, or even months, but the problem is going to seriously disrupt the smooth operation of the realm.

I. (Optional) Kittani Presence
#”You offer me weapons that haven’t changed in over a dozen centuries, designs already possessed by all my rivals, and technology I can acquire freely elsewhere, or copy using my own minions. And your warrior prowess is lacking; why, I hear even the upstart ‘Shemarrians’ regularly defeat you in their inferior numbers! Why should I entertain your offer of services seriously at all?”#

Trading in minions, especially useful ones like the Kittani, is common among the Splugorth, but how extent is the trade in Kittani?

01-20% None; the Splugorth have hardly heard of the Kittani, let alone have any in their realm.
21-30% Rejected---The local Splugorth wants nothing to do with the Mechanoid-hunted techno-brainiac monkeys, either because of their association with Splynncryth or because of their egos. The Splugorth either abjectly enslave any who come their way or force them out of the realm.
31-50% Token Presence----The Splugorth has a few Kittani, most likely rogues, who have entered service as mercenaries or freelance engineers and scientists. Their presence and power is seen as a test of whether the Splugorth will want to attract/acquire more under its banner.
51-75% Minor Presence----The Kittani are present in small numbers, and are regarded as an elite minority, but one easily rolled aside if they don’t live up to their reputation.
76-98% Common--The Kittani are a common and essential part of the Splugorth’s realm, though they are still seen as underlings and their development locked.
99-00% Exalted---The Kittani are held up as prize minions, even more so than Splynncryth regards them. So well-regarded are they that the local Splugorth has elevated them in the peerage and taken the limiters off their technological development. The danger is, the Kittani may lose sight of the fact that they are still a MINION species, and not equal partners to their Splugorth host.

J. (Optional) Sunaj Infiltration
“Who are we? We’re the Sunaj, extradimensional assassins extraordinaire and troubleshooters for hire. Here’s our card. What additional information we’re allowed to tell you about ourselves is written on the card.”

Lord Aerihza has becoma aware of the power ganes of the Splugorth and has tried to get agents into as many Splugorth kingdoms as he can, especially those that may pose a threat to Lord Splynncryth(and who might try to muscle in on Earth when the Sunaj off him). How well have the Sunaj managed to get embedded in the Splugorth’s domain?

01-25% None--- The Splugorth realm is too inaccessible or unimportant at the current tme to attract the attention of the Sunaj.
26-35% Repelled---The Sunaj have tried to infiltrate the kingdom, but the local Splugorth overlord either doesn’t trust or like the Sunaj,or sees them as the perfidious agents of other rival Splugorth, and violently pursues and persecutes the Sunaj whenever they appear. Due to the fact that Sunaj-hunting is the local sport, the Aerihmann clan has managed to only get a few (1d4) agents anywhere near the domain in question.
36-65% Toehold---The Sunaj have managed to slip a few(2d4x10) operatives into the domain under the cover of mercenaries and freelance operatives, to scout out things and gather information.
66-99% Present---The Sunaj have established a presence as a minor(no more than 2d4x100 in any one group) minion group with a growing reputation for being efficient and feared agents.
-00% Enscrounged---The Sunaj have managed to pull off a coup similar to that with Lord Splynncryth, and have established themselves as essential parts of the local power bloc.. Anything that happens in the kingdom, Lord Aerihza knows, usually before the local Splugorth overlord is even aware of it.

[SolCannibal]

Now i'm thinking of some Splugorth with Metzlain, Neuron Beasts, Ophidians or some others in place of the Blind Warrior Women, Kittani & Kidians and after doing some body plan redesign in his Highlords & co, decides to cross a few dimensions and attempt some sort of alliance with the Mechanoids - since it's not like there's anything humanoid in its empire that is not an abused slave....

[Warshield73]

Now i'm thinking of some Splugorth with Metzlain, Neuron Beasts, Ophidians or some others in place of the Blind Warrior Women, Kittani & Kidians and after doing some body plan redesign in his Highlords & co, decides to cross a few dimensions and attempt some sort of alliance with the Mechanoids - since it''s not like there's anything humanoid in its empire that is not an abused slave....

I'm not sure but I think there is an example in one of the books of a Supernatural Intelligence of one type or another actually doing this. Maybe in Pantheons.

[SolCannibal]

Now i'm thinking of some Splugorth with Metzlain, Neuron Beasts, Ophidians or some others in place of the Blind Warrior Women, Kittani & Kidians and after doing some body plan redesign in his Highlords & co, decides to cross a few dimensions and attempt some sort of alliance with the Mechanoids - since it''s not like there's anything humanoid in its empire that is not an abused slave....

I'm not sure but I think there is an example in one of the books of a Supernatural Intelligence of one type or another actually doing this. Maybe in Pantheons.

There's Hel in Pantheons of the Megaverse experimenting with construction an alternate body from a souped-up Metzla carcass to attempt to contact them and then spread across the Megaverse for genocide on a cosmic scale.

[Warshield73]

Now i'm thinking of some Splugorth with Metzlain, Neuron Beasts, Ophidians or some others in place of the Blind Warrior Women, Kittani & Kidians and after doing some body plan redesign in his Highlords & co, decides to cross a few dimensions and attempt some sort of alliance with the Mechanoids - since it''s not like there's anything humanoid in its empire that is not an abused slave....

I'm not sure but I think there is an example in one of the books of a Supernatural Intelligence of one type or another actually doing this. Maybe in Pantheons.

There's Hel in Pantheons of the Megaverse experimenting with construction an alternate body from a souped-up Metzla carcass to attempt to contact them and then spread across the Megaverse for genocide on a cosmic scale.

No it wasn't her I was thinking of. I know her I used her quest for a new body in two different campaigns with two different groups. I love her, I think she might be my favorite in pantheons. There is also a cult led by a Neuron Beast in Mechanoids SB that tries to join them too but I am pretty sure it was a Sup Intel.

Truthfully it is hard to keep track of all the Mechanoids references in the different Palladium Books. One god lost a planet of worshipers to them, it is believed that they attacked those high lords form Fed of Magic, possible creation by true Atlanteans, almost wiped out the Kitani. I am pretty sure there are a few references to them in some of the Heroes Unlimited books. They apparently get a round.

Still it is a great idea especially if this is a Splug that has been knocked around by others who have large numbers of Kittani. You know at one point I was going to create a servant race for a Splorg that was just an offshoot of the Zebuloid, jellyfish looking guys from Anvil galaxy book. Something like that would be good as the pilots and engineers for a Splug like this.

[SolCannibal]

Now i'm thinking of some Splugorth with Metzlain, Neuron Beasts, Ophidians or some others in place of the Blind Warrior Women, Kittani & Kidians and after doing some body plan redesign in his Highlords & co, decides to cross a few dimensions and attempt some sort of alliance with the Mechanoids - since it''s not like there's anything humanoid in its empire that is not an abused slave....

I'm not sure but I think there is an example in one of the books of a Supernatural Intelligence of one type or another actually doing this. Maybe in Pantheons.

There's Hel in Pantheons of the Megaverse experimenting with construction an alternate body from a souped-up Metzla carcass to attempt to contact them and then spread across the Megaverse for genocide on a cosmic scale.

No it wasn't her I was thinking of. I know her I used her quest for a new body in two different campaigns with two different groups. I love her, I think she might be my favorite in pantheons. There is also a cult led by a Neuron Beast in Mechanoids SB that tries to join them too but I am pretty sure it was a Sup Intel.

Yes, i remember that one. I liked Sourcebooks as a venue for campaign frameworks or events/timeline updates at least until Gathering of Heroes in Africa and those things began to get mixed up with World (Juicer Uprising, Coalition War Campaign & Navy, Xiticix Invasion, Megaverse in Flames) and Dimension Books (Naruni Wave, Dimensional Outbreak).

Always felt those modules - and Heroes of the Megaverse - would have made more sense as Sourcebooks.
Well, at least the Coalition Wars/Siege on Tolkeen books were its own thing, i guess.

Truthfully it is hard to keep track of all the Mechanoids references in the different Palladium Books. One god lost a planet of worshipers to them, it is believed that they attacked those high lords form Fed of Magic, possible creation by true Atlanteans, almost wiped out the Kitani. I am pretty sure there are a few references to them in some of the Heroes Unlimited books. They apparently get a round.

- The god would be Poseidon, in Pantheons of the Megaverse.
- About the Lords of Magic from Dweomer, that's new to me, got to look into.
- The True Atlantean angle i remember (from the SB2 i think) and always suspected of being the "dark secret" that Splynn found out and would ruin the True Atlanteans' image across the Megaverse.
- Heroes Unlimited book references? Damn, now i need to hit my books.
- Besside WB2, the Kittani's vicious relationship with the Mechannoids is indirectly cited again in Pantheons of the Megaverse, through the story of the downfall of Wothancrelyth's empire, as a major move in depleting his forces was tricking his armies in rifting to a world invaded by Mechanoids, what lead his Kittani troops to collectivelly flip out and go in a suicidal charge.
- South America 2 has a reference to them in the Megaversal Legion's fluff, about the Legion holding off a mechanoid horde for 19 hours in Arctares' World, to allow for the native population's evacuation through rifts.

edit: South America 2 also makes a mention of Pantheon of the Sun, the Inca gods, arriving on Rifts Earth after losing a world of their own and its 10 billion people to a mechanoid horde - what only makes the Megaversal Legion's fluff previously mentioned even more ridiculous.

As an aside, Arrak Chrome, from Robot Control in Mercenaries, tells us of an ancient civilization that has been at war with an army of relentless killing machines that call themselves The Horde, completely artificial life forms who seek the destruction of all organic life. Could be a random idea, or a stealth reference to Rifts: Manhunter, i guess...

Still it is a great idea especially if this is a Splug that has been knocked around by others who have large numbers of Kittani. You know at one point I was going to create a servant race for a Splorg that was just an offshoot of the Zebuloid, jellyfish looking guys from Anvil galaxy book. Something like that would be good as the pilots and engineers for a Splug like this.

Good point, might add that to my ideas, with Sploogs abducting Zebuloids to brainwash and clone to serve as alternative to the Kittani.
Maybe some Naruni are aware of the plan - and intend to use the threat to start a huge galactic promotion "Transgalatic Black Friday".

[Warshield73]

Now i'm thinking of some Splugorth with Metzlain, Neuron Beasts, Ophidians or some others in place of the Blind Warrior Women, Kittani & Kidians and after doing some body plan redesign in his Highlords & co, decides to cross a few dimensions and attempt some sort of alliance with the Mechanoids - since it''s not like there's anything humanoid in its empire that is not an abused slave....

I'm not sure but I think there is an example in one of the books of a Supernatural Intelligence of one type or another actually doing this. Maybe in Pantheons.

There's Hel in Pantheons of the Megaverse experimenting with construction an alternate body from a souped-up Metzla carcass to attempt to contact them and then spread across the Megaverse for genocide on a cosmic scale.

No it wasn't her I was thinking of. I know her I used her quest for a new body in two different campaigns with two different groups. I love her, I think she might be my favorite in pantheons. There is also a cult led by a Neuron Beast in Mechanoids SB that tries to join them too but I am pretty sure it was a Sup Intel.

Yes, i remember that one. I liked Sourcebooks as a venue for campaign frameworks or events/timeline updates at least until Gathering of Heroes in Africa and those things began to get mixed up with World (Juicer Uprising, Coalition War Campaign & Navy, Xiticix Invasion, Megaverse in Flames) and Dimension Books (Naruni Wave, Dimensional Outbreak).

Always felt those modules - and Heroes of the Megaverse - would have made more sense as Sourcebooks.
Well, at least the Coalition Wars/Siege on Tolkeen books were its own thing, i guess.

I'm weird I love the meta plots. It really allowed me to create a more epic feel for my first player group.

- About the Lords of Magic from Dweomer, that's new to me, got to look into.

I believe it is under Lord Dunscon his theory on where the Lords of Magic come from. I haven't read it in a few years.

- Heroes Unlimited book references? Damn, now i need to hit my books.

I only have a vague memory of this from one of the books but I don't remember the context so I wouldn't spend too much time trying to find it.

As an aside, Arrak Chrome, from Robot Control in Mercenaries, tells us of an ancient civilization that has been at war with an army of relentless killing machines that call themselves The Horde, completely artificial life forms who seek the destruction of all organic life. Could be a random idea, or a stealth reference to Rifts: Manhunter, i guess...

I don't know if it was supposed to be the Manhunters but on the two occasions that I used the Horde I used the Manhunters the first time and then the Robots from Splicers the second time.

[SolCannibal]

Yes, i remember that one. I liked Sourcebooks as a venue for campaign frameworks or events/timeline updates at least until Gathering of Heroes in Africa and those things began to get mixed up with World (Juicer Uprising, Coalition War Campaign, Xiticix Invasion, Megaverse in Flames) and Dimension Books (Naruni Wave, Dimensional Outbreak).

Always felt those modules - and Heroes of the Megaverse - would have made more sense as Sourcebooks.
Well, at least the Coalition Wars/Siege on Tolkeen books were its own thing, i guess.

I'm weird I love the meta plots. It really allowed me to create a more epic feel for my first player group.

I have nothing against metaplot, quite the contrary in fact - but exactly for this i feel labeling Juicer Uprising, CS War Campaign & Xiticix Invasion, that are very much event/campaign books as Worldbooks, less than ideal. Same for Naruni Wave & Dimensional Outbreak as "Dimension Books". Makes me think too much of how Africa as a worldbook suffers from losing a lot of pagecount to the Gathering of Heroes event/campaign seed.

edit: my bad, Coalition's Navy is indeed a sourcebook, as it should be in my opinion (though ironically it does a better work than War Campaign as a source of regional info on the CS environs, imho)

- About the Lords of Magic from Dweomer, that's new to me, got to look into.

I believe it is under Lord Dunscon his theory on where the Lords of Magic come from. I haven't read it in a few years.

Well, that directs my search a lot more, for sure - fact or fancy, it at least informs us that Alistair is familiar with the Mechanoids as a cosmic level potentially god-killing threat, what is quite interesting on itself.

- Heroes Unlimited book references? Damn, now i need to hit my books.

I only have a vague memory of this from one of the books but I don't remember the context so I wouldn't spend too much time trying to find it.

Even if i find nothing, i'll end up coming across some nice forgotten old stuff to mine i'm sure, so no big loss.

As an aside, Arrak Chrome, from Robot Control in Mercenaries, tells us of an ancient civilization that has been at war with an army of relentless killing machines that call themselves The Horde, completely artificial life forms who seek the destruction of all organic life. Could be a random idea, or a stealth reference to Rifts: Manhunter, i guess...

I don't know if it was supposed to be the Manhunters but on the two occasions that I used the Horde I used the Manhunters the first time and then the Robots from Splicers the second time.

Oh yeah, truth be told the robots of Splicers did cross my mind too after my post.