I want to build a stone pyramid - is it possible?

[Orin J.]

at this point they're held together by being magic. stones come apart, ceases to be a stone pyramid.

would be neat for them to go into detail how one enchants individual SDC bricks to become a collective MDC structure

like if stone masters spend an amount of PPE/time doing so

Caster: "magic, this is a pyramid" Magic: "okay,we work as pyramid"

Caster: *moves a stone block* Magic: "okay pyramid broke we're done, BYE"

magic behaves a little wonky and doesn't really have a reasonable "logic" to it overall. sometimes magic has to be told a bunch of little things are one thing to understand its job, and sometimes magic slaps you in the face for saying several things are one thing.

[Curbludgeon]

That pyramids have a MDC total suggests that isn't the case. Given the descriptions of Stone Masters in WB2 and DB15 it seems unlikely that there would even be bricks in a magical pyramid, but stone that is molded into a solid piece for which the smooth appearance of casing stones originally covering Egyptian pyramids were a crude later approximation.

I'd really like to get a look at Rifts:Antartica, to see how Icecraft describes the construction of buildings. I like how most magical construction methods outside of Stone Magic are comparatively ephemeral, which would be useful in limiting the number of ruins left from an Ancient Rifts Earth setting. Crystal and Cloud Magics can't make permanent structures, and Line Drawing only can with a substantial sacrifice. The former two could have a fun house ruled interaction, perhaps lifting a couple of spells from Star Magic or those of the Laser Mage. I waffle, however, on if the Permanency Line Drawing ritual should maybe have a lower cost in a Rifts 15,000 BCE game. I get how having to effectively sacrifice a person to construct a building is in keeping with Precolumbian societies, but wonder if maybe a forgotten, ancient OCC where burned out Line Makers are made into something like a Rune Warrior might be more engaging.

[Borast]

As several people have said...ensure the ground is stable and able to support the mass of all that stone...and then some!
(A geological engineer would be a great thing! )

If you're concerned about people trying to take it over, you can always try to build into a hill... Nothing I can remember says that the pyramid has to be above ground!

what's the cutoff between pyramid and crypt, i wonder?.....

The point you start placing dead bodies in ceremonial niches...ah, screw it...as soon as you start leaving them laying around like dust in the halls!
(Unless you're composting... Composting makes it alright! )

[BuckDaring]

I was a GM, that was dealing with the same issue. A party wanted to build a Stone Pyramid over a local Nexus point because they were tired of my random rolls for it. Part of the campaign was making a town safer and building it's economy.

They found a Stone Master ally of the appropriate level. I didn't worry about weight, as the land they were building it on had a 200' to 300' soil level on top of a continental shelf. You can call a local Geologist, if you're really nice to them. Or you can go to or request Geological Surveys of the area from the nearest University's Library.

The first thing I required was for them to find a usable quarry. I looked up modern real life quarries in the area and decided which ones might still be usefull. After they found it they had to determine the size of the blocks they were using. The quarry was for granite. They decided on 10'x10'x10' for simplicities sake and also decided on a step pyramid to make it easier. I don't remember how many blocks it required, but I fell back on my archeology books from college, it was a lot.

They rigged two old suits of Robot Armor with laser cutting torches and backpack-like carrier for the stones that could carry four blocks at a time. I figured they would have no trouble cutting the blocks. The quarry was about forty miles away. I decided that it would take about two hours for one of the Robot Suits to go to the quarry, cut four blocks and return them to the building site. By hot-seating them, they were adding 184 blocks per 24 hours.

Back at the building site, they required constant guarding from things from the Nexus and Beings and local powers that didn't want them to succeed. They had a work force of a couple of Master Psychics using TK, a few Giants they were paying and feeding (I made them work hard to keep the Giants well fed, less they just leave or decide to eat the residents), and about a half a dozen Earth Warlocks from a nearby Coven of Warlocks they had to agree to share the pyramid with.

The work continued until after a month or so, they had all the blocks they needed and the pyramid about 60% finished and had already survived (by co-ordinated emergency actions) two Ley Line Storms.

They converted the Robot Suits to help the builders and started building heavy weapon and mini-missile launcher defensive fortifications around it. They eventually finished in spite of constant harassment.

The final part of the campaign involved them defending the Pyramid from a coalition of local bandits, then an attack from a Coalition Kill Team, and finally a Splugorth Minion force with Kittaini support attack.

After that I gave them the choice of it turning into a more political game, moving on, or retiring their characters. They chose to retire and start a new game.

It went well, I followed all the info in the books I could find plus a few Rifter articles I used. It believe it's best as either a Major Campaign Goal or The Final Campaign Goal.

Building a working Stone Pyramid in the players control should be a major accomplishment, that should become a major military target for any forces in the area or even far away.

At the very least before they should finish building it, they should have to prove through battle, that they have the military might to hold it from all interested parties to the point that taking it would cost far more than it's worth to them or more than it's perceived threat.

[Nuristas]

I was a GM, that was dealing with the same issue. A party wanted to build a Stone Pyramid over a local Nexus point because they were tired of my random rolls for it. Part of the campaign was making a town safer and building it's economy.

They found a Stone Master ally of the appropriate level. I didn't worry about weight, as the land they were building it on had a 200' to 300' soil level on top of a continental shelf. You can call a local Geologist, if you're really nice to them. Or you can go to or request Geological Surveys of the area from the nearest University's Library.

The first thing I required was for them to find a usable quarry. I looked up modern real life quarries in the area and decided which ones might still be usefull. After they found it they had to determine the size of the blocks they were using. The quarry was for granite. They decided on 10'x10'x10' for simplicities sake and also decided on a step pyramid to make it easier. I don't remember how many blocks it required, but I fell back on my archeology books from college, it was a lot.

They rigged two old suits of Robot Armor with laser cutting torches and backpack-like carrier for the stones that could carry four blocks at a time. I figured they would have no trouble cutting the blocks. The quarry was about forty miles away. I decided that it would take about two hours for one of the Robot Suits to go to the quarry, cut four blocks and return them to the building site. By hot-seating them, they were adding 184 blocks per 24 hours.

Back at the building site, they required constant guarding from things from the Nexus and Beings and local powers that didn't want them to succeed. They had a work force of a couple of Master Psychics using TK, a few Giants they were paying and feeding (I made them work hard to keep the Giants well fed, less they just leave or decide to eat the residents), and about a half a dozen Earth Warlocks from a nearby Coven of Warlocks they had to agree to share the pyramid with.

The work continued until after a month or so, they had all the blocks they needed and the pyramid about 60% finished and had already survived (by co-ordinated emergency actions) two Ley Line Storms.

They converted the Robot Suits to help the builders and started building heavy weapon and mini-missile launcher defensive fortifications around it. They eventually finished in spite of constant harassment.

The final part of the campaign involved them defending the Pyramid from a coalition of local bandits, then an attack from a Coalition Kill Team, and finally a Splugorth Minion force with Kittaini support attack.

After that I gave them the choice of it turning into a more political game, moving on, or retiring their characters. They chose to retire and start a new game.

It went well, I followed all the info in the books I could find plus a few Rifter articles I used. It believe it's best as either a Major Campaign Goal or The Final Campaign Goal.

Building a working Stone Pyramid in the players control should be a major accomplishment, that should become a major military target for any forces in the area or even far away.

At the very least before they should finish building it, they should have to prove through battle, that they have the military might to hold it from all interested parties to the point that taking it would cost far more than it's worth to them or more than it's perceived threat.

Thanks a lot for the explanations about how it happened in your campaign. It is a very detailed explanation and I'm sure your PC's had a blast doing it. We are atm still in the prospecting fase looking for a nexus to put our Pyramid at. Since our standard adventuring area is the Eastern part of the US (Coalition Territory) it doesn't seem like the best of places to set one up unless we can put a lot of distance between them and us.

[Nuristas]

Does anybody know what safety/security measures a stone master could put up on his own to defend a pyramid?

[Axelmania]

Given the descriptions of Stone Masters in WB2 and DB15
it seems unlikely that there would even be bricks in a magical pyramid, but stone that is molded into a solid piece
for which the smooth appearance of casing stones originally covering Egyptian pyramids were a crude later approximation.

this iconic drawing sure looks like distinct bricks to me

of course that just might be an illusion, it's entirely possible to have bonded pieces that are just ridged on the outside

I still think tehy probbly strt with small pieces but yeah perhaps somehow bond them.

The question is how you go from "lightly stacked legos" to "clicked into place legos" to "glued legos" because we're talking about differing degrees of adhesion/togetherness at distinct tiers

[narcissus]

Some other related skills that are listed under the Spinne in WB30 (p. 196) are Architecture (New!) and Civil Engineering (New!). I assume since they're both listed as new, and both list other skill requirements, that they're open to anyone.

[Library Ogre]

Does anybody know what safety/security measures a stone master could put up on his own to defend a pyramid?

A simple one, that will stymie a lot of people, but not other Stone masters (or Earth Warlocks): Seal the pyramid. Just flat walls of stone everywhere. If you're another Stone Master, you can just open doors where you need them, no problem. If you're not... well, you teleport in to a sealed tomb, or you try to get into one, and it's going to be a bit harder.

[Nuristas]

Some other related skills that are listed under the Spinne in WB30 (p. 196) are Architecture (New!) and Civil Engineering (New!). I assume since they're both listed as new, and both list other skill requirements, that they're open to anyone.

Very nice Catch. I'll ask the GM if a stone master could get that skill added or if he just thinks that they know enough without needing a skill roll.

[Nuristas]

Does anybody know what safety/security measures a stone master could put up on his own to defend a pyramid?

A simple one, that will stymie a lot of people, but not other Stone masters (or Earth Warlocks): Seal the pyramid. Just flat walls of stone everywhere. If you're another Stone Master, you can just open doors where you need them, no problem. If you're not... well, you teleport in to a sealed tomb, or you try to get into one, and it's going to be a bit harder.

Simple yet efficient.

[BuckDaring]

This post has gotten me curious about something....

Does anyone know if there are rules, rule clarifications, or even unofficial Rifter rules, for:

If the affects of a Pyramid "capping" a Nexus Point is something that can be sensed by powerful being attuned to PPE, possibly with their own Pyramid? How far away can they sense it?

If an area of, say, the size of Wyoming, had all the Nexus Points covered with a Stone Pyramid (or other options from Secrets of the Atlanteans), or a Millennium Tree. I think maybe the Life Trees or whatever they're called from the South American Island with the elves, use up or make available, or somehow control the Nexus Point. Don't Nazca Lines do something similar?
Anyway, if a large area of land had all the Nexuses "controlled" in some way by some combination of such things, say by an allied group, if there are no rules covering how that would affect the Ley Lines and "spontaneous magical events", from spontaneous Rifts, including the ability to Rift into the area, and even Fade Towns. How does the "collective" feel about assuming that some or all of these anomalous events would likely "calm down" if not disappear entirely?

What does the "collective" think it would take to control unwanted dimensional intrusion or Rifts, either at one Pyramid at a Nexus or a Network of Pyramids, possibly controlling a larger area, or at the very least forcing all dimensional incursions or Rifts that woulf otherwise appear elsewhere to only happen in one spot?

Referring back to Pyramid Defenses if you could somehow get the aid of a Nazca Line Master and a half a dozen potent (6th lvl) Earth Warlocks, I'm not sure you could be better defended.
More seriously, though. A clever way to protect your pyramid would be to either build it in whatever your Latitude's version of Rain Forrest is or use someone with Plant Magic like a Druid to grow as natural an area around it as you can.

This is a true story, or at least claimed to be true by an Archaeology professor of mine. Archaeologists studying old Pot Shards in the jungles of Northern South America spent several months (dozens of archaeologists, students, and local workers), walking five feet away from a Mayan Stone Pyramid and it was only random chance that one day, somebody stepped off the path they'd cut and bumped into it, or they would have gone home two weeks later and it would likely never have been discovered. It's a major find that inspired other archaeologists to use clever methods to find several more Pyramids that would likely never have been found.

[Borast]

If I recall, once the pyramid is on the Nexus, the chance of a ley storm on one of the affiliated lines is all but eliminated, as are spontaneous gates. As long as the pyramid is "owned,"(?) this will continue.

Additionally, anyone on one of the connected ley lines will be able to sense something is "wrong," because they will not be able to draw anywhere near as much power. As for the REASON (the pyramid), no they would not be able to sense it until they can see it. (However, if it was covered, they'd still not necessarily be able to sense the pyramid, other than the muting effect it has on the lines and nexus.)

As for your true story...eminently believable. They have started using drones in conjunction with GPS and satellite photos to find pyramids in Central and South America that people have been living within easy access, but all knowledge of them was lost. In fact, one of them I can remember hearing about, the locals had been climbing the particular hill for as long as they could remember. When the guy with the drone was able to show them the unnatural dimensions and show them it was a "lost" pyramid, they were shocked.

[Nuristas]

If I recall, once the pyramid is on the Nexus, the chance of a ley storm on one of the affiliated lines is all but eliminated, as are spontaneous gates. As long as the pyramid is "owned,"(?) this will continue.

Additionally, anyone on one of the connected ley lines will be able to sense something is "wrong," because they will not be able to draw anywhere near as much power. As for the REASON (the pyramid), no they would not be able to sense it until they can see it. (However, if it was covered, they'd still not necessarily be able to sense the pyramid, other than the muting effect it has on the lines and nexus.)

As for your true story...eminently believable. They have started using drones in conjunction with GPS and satellite photos to find pyramids in Central and South America that people have been living within easy access, but all knowledge of them was lost. In fact, one of them I can remember hearing about, the locals had been climbing the particular hill for as long as they could remember. When the guy with the drone was able to show them the unnatural dimensions and show them it was a "lost" pyramid, they were shocked.

Question: can people gate to your pyramid through another pyramid if they don't have the exact location/knowledge about it.
As in: can you somehow "scan" the network to find pyramids? Or is it really, as long as you don't show people, they can't go there?

[Curbludgeon]

An experienced Voyager, Stone Master and even a Nomad can open a Rift, (and) instantly link up to all the available Atlantean Dimensional Pyramids. They can mentally scan and search the dimensions for Dimensional Pyramids connected to a desired world or different dimension without having ever been to it or having any prior knowledge about it. The searching process takes 1D4 minutes.

There isn't equivalent text about pyramids within the same dimension, but there there are a couple of lines about connecting to a grid or network of ley lines, so make of that what you will.

[Giant2005]

An experienced Voyager, Stone Master and even a Nomad can open a Rift, (and) instantly link up to all the available Atlantean Dimensional Pyramids. They can mentally scan and search the dimensions for Dimensional Pyramids connected to a desired world or different dimension without having ever been to it or having any prior knowledge about it. The searching process takes 1D4 minutes.

There isn't equivalent text about pyramids within the same dimension, but there there are a couple of lines about connecting to a grid or network of ley lines, so make of that what you will.

That makes you wonder how the Aerihman Clan manages to keep New Atlantis secret. It sounds like anyone can find the place without effort.

[Nuristas]

An experienced Voyager, Stone Master and even a Nomad can open a Rift, (and) instantly link up to all the available Atlantean Dimensional Pyramids. They can mentally scan and search the dimensions for Dimensional Pyramids connected to a desired world or different dimension without having ever been to it or having any prior knowledge about it. The searching process takes 1D4 minutes.

There isn't equivalent text about pyramids within the same dimension, but there there are a couple of lines about connecting to a grid or network of ley lines, so make of that what you will.

So if I read it correctly you can't search for a specific pyramid. Only for a pyramid in a dimension which satisfies your specifications. That would explain why the Atlantean homeworld ones haven't all been found since there are many dimensions which have similar traits.

Or am I misinterpreting this?

[david322]

Building a stone pyramid is indeed possible and has been accomplished throughout history by ancient civilizations. The pyramids of Egypt, such as the Great Pyramid of Giza, stand as magnificent examples of human engineering and architectural prowess.

However, when it comes to underwater pyramid, the concept adds an additional layer of complexity. While there have been claims and theories about submerged pyramid structures in various parts of the world, constructing stone pyramids underwater would present unique challenges.

The underwater environment poses difficulties in terms of logistics, engineering, and preservation. Construction materials, techniques, and structural stability would need to be carefully considered to withstand the forces of water pressure and erosion.

If you're interested in the idea of underwater pyramids, exploring the mysteries surrounding existing submerged structures and researching underwater archaeological discoveries can provide valuable insights into the feasibility and historical context of such endeavors.

While building a stone pyramid underwater presents significant challenges, the study of underwater pyramids offers a fascinating journey into the past and the exploration of civilizations that may have left their mark beneath the waves.

[Aermas]

To address the idea of a flying pyramid...

The TW Float/Fly systems don't nessitate material limitations of the design. Meaning you can make anything from bare wooden platforms, flying armchairs, or flying castles. I know I've read at least one or two mentions of flying castles in Rifts, so it should be possible. A pyramid should be no different, you just need adequate power & ability. A TW should be able to even key it off of a Stone Master's ability to move stone. If anything you could just hook up some hovercraft jets for maneuvers if you had to.

As for defense, I would make a small network of community rooms meant for common use & lock everything else away in the stone. Then you could set up a ridiculous amount of automated defense turrets & magic to nuke anyone teleporting/moving through the wall into a room without proper ID badges or magical marks. As a Stone Master you could even have a lot of these same defenses in the common areas, primed to go, but hidden behind a thin shell of stone that you could remove at any time to turn the rooms into a kill box.

You could have multiple defensive capabilities on the outside, from simply burying it when needed, to Naruni Forcefields, TW shields, etc. You could even possibly install TW cosmic/space spells & Phaseworld tech to have it fly into space & be your own personal Ha'tak command ship.

[darthauthor]

I agree with Curbludgeon, the Stone Master OCC can build pyramids without any addition architect skill as such. It is basically their main job. A GM might argue against their being able to build other buildings especial if they are not made of stone but the magic pyramids made by Atlanteans can be built by any Stone Master.

That being said, the skill Architecture is in the D-Bee's of North America book. One of the alien/D-Bee races has it. I think they were a spider race or something. They also had the "Engineer" Skil.

I wrote about a Rifts game session idea where the story was centered around the players as adventurers/merc running defense and trouble shooting while the Stone Master and his party took the month or two or three to build the Stone Pryamid.

I had outlined an advanture/campaign around all the things I believed probably they could and would encounter while in the process of building the pryamid.
I can barely remember half of them but it was something like:
Ley Line storms
Random Rift opening.
Local random monster
locals who don't want "their" ley line tampered with
Thieves and slavers
D-Bees hoping for a way back home watching the construction