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psiandco wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:

psiandco wrote:

riftsnewbie wrote: be sure to watch out for the vampires."

Eh.
Sounds pretty fun to me.

that's why I recommend building a shelter. if a vamp doesn't have permission...

Then he huffy and puffs and breaks your shelter down now it isn't a shelter anymore.

Zer0 Kay wrote:

psiandco wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:

psiandco wrote:

riftsnewbie wrote: be sure to watch out for the vampires."

Eh.
Sounds pretty fun to me.

that's why I recommend building a shelter. if a vamp doesn't have permission...

Then he huffy and puffs and breaks your shelter down now it isn't a shelter anymore.

uh-oh... we is vambi snax! aaayyyyiiieeeeeee!

Seriously, if vampires "can't enter a home without invitation", I don't think they are allowed to rip apart your "shelter", because an MDC Supernatural strength undead can tear their way into a bank vault no problem. however, if that vault is a "Home", and the vampire can't come in without an invitation...
I doubt the vampire would be able to get close enough to scratch the paint.

So it depends.
A.) Are Vampires creatures of magic, bound by mystical rules, and vulnerabilities, and opposed by the Christian faith?
"It isn't the symbol of a cross that destroys the undead. Technically any picket fence is made of nothing but Crosses. It is the FAITH of the person holding the cross, that is what matters." "Wooden stakes are deadlier an M.D. Laser?" "Why does Silver harm vampires?" "Why does garlic repel them?" why can't a vampire cross "running water" (if all they gotta do is fly or go around)? why are the Myths and legends so definitive on how vampires can be fought?
...Or...
B.) Are vampires just invincible killing machines who are all like "Wat evs".
NOM-NOM-NOM-NOM. "oh, check out my sparkles", "my, the sunlight is bright today"

One type of mythical vampire can be fought, The other? no. human extinction is guaranteed.

so which is it, Zerokay?

based on their limitations, I would tend to argue that vampires cannot directly attack and destroy a "home"
if they are creative they MAY be able to work around that restriction but it would be indirectly

for instance they cannot walk up and tear open the walls of a home, or shoot holes in it.
on the other hand if an alley (not mind controlled minion) does it and makes it no longer a home then they can,
they also might be able to create situations where environmental attacks make it no longer a home, depending on the rules they are under.

if a boulder "falls on it" a fire burns it down or it floods etc.

of course I also believe most vampires (especially wild ones) won't usually do that because they are too direct and straight forward to explore the limits of the rules that bind them

guardiandashi wrote:based on their limitations, I would tend to argue that vampires cannot directly attack and destroy a "home"
if they are creative they MAY be able to work around that restriction but it would be indirectly
for instance they cannot walk up and tear open the walls of a home, or shoot holes in it.
on the other hand if an alley (not mind controlled minion) does it and makes it no longer a home then they can,
they also might be able to create situations where environmental attacks make it no longer a home, depending on the rules they are under.
if a boulder "falls on it" a fire burns it down or it floods etc.
of course I also believe most vampires (especially wild ones) won't usually do that because they are too direct and straight forward to explore the limits of the rules that bind them

if there was a way to upvote posts... I give this one a +10.

psiandco wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:

psiandco wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:

psiandco wrote:Eh.
Sounds pretty fun to me.

that's why I recommend building a shelter. if a vamp doesn't have permission...

Then he huffy and puffs and breaks your shelter down now it isn't a shelter anymore.

uh-oh... we is vambi snax! aaayyyyiiieeeeeee!

Seriously, if vampires "can't enter a home without invitation", I don't think they are allowed to rip apart your "shelter", because an MDC Supernatural strength undead can tear their way into a bank vault no problem. however, if that vault is a "Home", and the vampire can't come in without an invitation...
I doubt the vampire would be able to get close enough to scratch the paint.

So it depends.
A.) Are Vampires creatures of magic, bound by mystical rules, and vulnerabilities, and opposed by the Christian faith?
"It isn't the symbol of a cross that destroys the undead. Technically any picket fence is made of nothing but Crosses. It is the FAITH of the person holding the cross, that is what matters." "Wooden stakes are deadlier an M.D. Laser?" "Why does Silver harm vampires?" "Why does garlic repel them?" why can't a vampire cross "running water" (if all they gotta do is fly or go around)? why are the Myths and legends so definitive on how vampires can be fought?
...Or...
B.) Are vampires just invincible killing machines who are all like "Wat evs".
NOM-NOM-NOM-NOM. "oh, check out my sparkles", "my, the sunlight is bright today"

One type of mythical vampire can be fought, The other? no. human extinction is guaranteed.

so which is it, Zerokay?

1.5 the vamp can still toss a grenade at your cardboard box. Picket fences have supports at the tops and bottoms and are connected to each other making them not crosses.

All Sparkly vampires die!!!

And no it isn't either, or. I have to choose from your binary choices. Indeed I'm the GM in my game and if vampires are a pretty shell placed around a swirling mass of plasma which is allergic to garlic and silver and has a racially transmitted phobia of crosses then that is what they are.

guardiandashi wrote:based on their limitations, I would tend to argue that vampires cannot directly attack and destroy a "home"
if they are creative they MAY be able to work around that restriction but it would be indirectly

for instance they cannot walk up and tear open the walls of a home, or shoot holes in it.
on the other hand if an alley (not mind controlled minion) does it and makes it no longer a home then they can,
they also might be able to create situations where environmental attacks make it no longer a home, depending on the rules they are under.

if a boulder "falls on it" a fire burns it down or it floods etc.

of course I also believe most vampires (especially wild ones) won't usually do that because they are too direct and straight forward to explore the limits of the rules that bind them

Agreed. I may even go as far as non wilds could come up with an idea to douse the house in fuel or plant explosives but would require a minion to press the button or throw the torch. Also ripping off a wall doesn't make a building not a home nor does a Boulder running through it. For me for something to no longer be classified as "not a home" it has to be unlivable.

Am I the only one who doesn't subscribe to "wherever I lay my hat... that's my home"?

A shelter is not a home, neither is a tent, but hey feel free to adjudicate by the Paul Young Rule (Yes, I know Marvin Gaye wrote it but the Paul Young version has more feeling IMHO)

For anyone interested, I took Psiandco's suggestion and started writing up a journal for the campaign that prompted this thread. I posted it in separate thread on the Rifts board titled "Campaign Journal: Dirty Quarter Dozen."

For what it's worth, the question of vampires, homes and shelters hasn't come up in play yet (though vampires very much have).

hup7 wrote:Am I the only one who doesn't subscribe to "wherever I lay my hat... that's my home"?

A shelter is not a home, neither is a tent, but hey feel free to adjudicate by the Paul Young Rule (Yes, I know Marvin Gaye wrote it but the Paul Young version has more feeling IMHO)

So that is what it isn't to you so what is?

I'm confused... why would you need to give a vampire permission to enter your home, shelter, tent, or whatever?

By the game rules? I'm not aware of that being a limitation for Rifts/Palladium vampires. No idea why it's being mentioned here.

From mythology? It's a mystical compulsion based on the collective belief that the threshold is considered to be a magical barrier that gives security to one's home. It's the same way a simple lock is believed to protect you when anyone who really wants to enter can break/bypass it with ease.

Crimson Dynamo wrote:By the game rules? I'm not aware of that being a limitation for Rifts/Palladium vampires. No idea why it's being mentioned here.

Yeah, game rules is why I was asking. It is a Rifts forum after all! That's why I was confused - thought I might be missing something. Thanks.

No sweat.

Though, honestly, it whould be a good limitation for them and is no more nonsensical than holy symbols or running water. Sure, getting past the limitation is pretty trivial under most circumstances, especially for master vampires, but it would be a useful tool for adventurers and vampire hunters to take advantage, too. Being able to set up a small reprieve in the middle of a hunt/vampire country would be much welcome. Even if you'd still have to be incredibly paranoid about it.

Yeah, I don't recall the Invitation being a thing in Palladium's games.
If it was, the vampires could still destroy the home/shelter/whatever. They can chuck boulders, after all.
Or they could use mind control to get you to come out.

Really, the mind control is one of the more deadly abilities the vampires have, and it seems to be pretty commonly underused and underestimated.

Palladium likes to use psuedo-science fortean explanations for the supernatural (ghosts are actually inter-dimensional entities that imprint on the brain patterns of the dying, rather than spirits of the dead. Sunlight and running water damage vampires because of something about their physical properties, rather than their symbolism of sanitation and health [hence anti-vampire squirt guns,] that kind of thing.)

The invitation thing is harder to fit into a psuedo-science framework, which might be why Kevin dropped it. If you were trying to shoe-horn it in, you might say it has something to do with the owner/resident's psychic imprint in their abode reflexively repelling the vampire in some fashion.

In which case, it might be an effect that kicks in after you've lived in a particular home long enough.