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Posted: **Fri Jun 11, 2004 8:33 pm**

BTW, they DO make sound suppressors for .50 BMG weapons. One of the benefits of sound suppressors is that due to their trapping the gasses they are even better muzzle brakes than conventional muzzle brakes, plus the elimination of muzzle flash and other benefits. A heavy semi-auto .50BMG with a sound suppressor or muzzle brake has recoil very comparable to the worst 12Ga 3" magnum slugs without recoil reduction systems, in other words, not joyful, but very doable and manageable.

One thing we did note though, when I shot the police departments .50 BMG Barrett 82A2 with the suppressro on it, the supressor was so heavy that it actually caused a 10" shift in point of impact (drop) at around 300-500 yards.

Posted: **Fri Jun 11, 2004 9:47 pm**

Guys guys guys, why are you playing with thoes obsolete toys, that clunky Shemarian tree trunk and that South american air rifle!

Just feast your eyes on Naruni Tecks (Phase world source book Catalog number 817 page 54) Ever popular NE-75H, Its slices, It Dices, and Flambes all with one triggerpull! It outranges most Power armor weapon systems and it packs a lovly 2D4X10+20 MCD in each of its Plasma packets,

And if thats a bit over kill for you it quicky converts to use of the NE-10 cartiges, more than doubling the payload while still retaining a respectable 1D4X10 +10 MDC

But you say that the soon to be deceaced is wearing plasma proof Body armr and regenerates faster than a Dragon, then take a look at out fine line of third party weaponsystems, Expecialy the PH-400! It cuts through body armor like Cosimic Rays through tissue paper and further the damage done to that Dragon in a half shell is not regeneratable!.

And all of this is avalible to you with reasonable Credit tearms.

Posted: **Sat Jun 12, 2004 12:45 pm**

Thanx tsh77769, you're right, that WAS the convention {I've been out for 5 years now, so I forget the small stuph lol}.
At any rate, yes, the NE-75h is the way to go with sniper tactics.

Posted: **Sat Jun 12, 2004 7:11 pm**

Drakenred wrote:Guys guys guys, why are you playing with thoes obsolete toys, that clunky Shemarian tree trunk and that South american air rifle!

Just feast your eyes on Naruni Tecks (Phase world source book Catalog number 817 page 54) Ever popular NE-75H, Its slices, It Dices, and Flambes all with one triggerpull! It outranges most Power armor weapon systems and it packs a lovly 2D4X10+20 MCD in each of its Plasma packets,

And if thats a bit over kill for you it quicky converts to use of the NE-10 cartiges, more than doubling the payload while still retaining a respectable 1D4X10 +10 MDC

But you say that the soon to be deceaced is wearing plasma proof Body armr and regenerates faster than a Dragon, then take a look at out fine line of third party weaponsystems, Expecialy the PH-400! It cuts through body armor like Cosimic Rays through tissue paper and further the damage done to that Dragon in a half shell is not regeneratable!.

And all of this is avalible to you with reasonable Credit tearms.

that's phaseworld, not Rifts. it dosn't help any as it's more than a little difficult to get on Rifts earth.

Posted: **Sat Jun 12, 2004 8:09 pm**

wolfe wrote:well Nekira to be honest i dont think anyone made it a rifts earth specific, since it is the gateway to the megaverse literaly any weapon could be found there..just maybe not in major quantities..

but i'll stick with the shemarrian railgun. better munition options to date.
That plasma cannon isnt going to do anything against certain creatures like vampires and such.

i can fire mission specific munitions from a railgun, standard, u-rounds,depleted uranium,wood, wood with uranium bits -if it needs metal bits to fire wood might as well make it uranium to really,really tick off that vampire -works well if its a silver bullet with uranium core too-
but anyways..

umm, the uranium in the silver core won't do anything to a vampire. sinse it's not touching the vampire, it can't harm it or impair the regeneration.

other than that, well, I don't see any need to make a sniper rifle for rifts or all these crazy rules people have been throwing about.

MDC made snipers obsoleate, unelss they are really good with called shots to exposed parts. but the age of the one hit kill is gone unless you nuke 'em, or use the boom gun, or other such insane damage weapon. and then it won't be silent.

personally, I think that making things like armor penertration actually detracts from the game, but to each their own.

my .02 cents in. continue the debate if you like the idea.

Posted: **Sat Jun 12, 2004 9:23 pm**

umm, the uranium in the silver core won't do anything to a vampire. sinse it's not touching the vampire, it can't harm it or impair the regeneration.

its the radiation that hinders the regen, and unless its wrapped in 2 feet of lead (or several more feet of a lighter matrial, like silver), that radiation can get out. and the silver will really hurt them.

MDC made snipers obsoleate

you know, they said something similar in realty about guided missiles and tanks.
they were wrong.

and even if MDC made it impossible to get a one hit one kill, remember not all targets will have MDC armor, and a sniper will wait for a non-MDC target to expose itself.

, unelss they are really good with called shots to exposed parts. but the age of the one hit kill is gone unless you nuke 'em, or use the boom gun, or other such insane damage weapon. and then it won't be silent.

as for called shots? thats what snipers are best at. modern snipers can pick a flea of a dogs back from a mile away, and in rifts they'd just be better, due to more accurate rifles and more powerful optics.

remember, their is a difference between a Sniper, and a soldier that snipes. a Sniper is trained to be the stealthiest, toughest, and most leathal soldier on the battlefeild. a soldier that snipes just has a good rifle.

Posted: **Sat Jun 12, 2004 9:30 pm**

glitterboy2098 wrote:
umm, the uranium in the silver core won't do anything to a vampire. sinse it's not touching the vampire, it can't harm it or impair the regeneration.

its the radiation that hinders the regen, and unless its wrapped in 2 feet of lead (or several more feet of a lighter matrial, like silver), that radiation can get out. and the silver will really hurt them.

but a core won't have enough radiation to hamper it any. it can't just be any amount of radiation, or else they would never regen, it has to be a certain critical mass for it to do anything, and a core or a sliver won't cut it.

MDC made snipers obsoleate

you know, they said something similar in realty about guided missiles and tanks.
they were wrong.

and even if MDC made it impossible to get a one hit one kill, remember not all targets will have MDC armor, and a sniper will wait for a non-MDC target to expose itself.

true, but everyone here seemed to be complaining that you can't get a one it kill in like all these military buffs would like to see. they just can't seem to grasp that those days on teh battlefeild are over in Rifts.

sure, if they don't have MDC armor on they are no harder for a trained sniper to kill than one today. I'm talking about a pitched battle where both side, if not expecting it, at least were aware of the posibility and took precautions.

, unelss they are really good with called shots to exposed parts. but the age of the one hit kill is gone unless you nuke 'em, or use the boom gun, or other such insane damage weapon. and then it won't be silent.

as for called shots? thats what snipers are best at. modern snipers can pick a flea of a dogs back from a mile away, and in rifts they'd just be better, due to more accurate rifles and more powerful optics.

remember, their is a difference between a Sniper, and a soldier that snipes. a Sniper is trained to be the stealthiest, toughest, and most leathal soldier on the battlefeild. a soldier that snipes just has a good rifle.

yea, shouldn't there be a sniper OCC? just having it be just one little skill you can get as a SECONDARY seems a bit demeening.

then again, it also should provide a higer bonus than a mere +2. +4 at least.

Posted: **Sat Jun 12, 2004 9:35 pm**

rifter #23 has a coalition TAG team OCC add-on, (IE sniper), just apply it to any man-of-arms OCC you want.

Posted: **Sat Jun 12, 2004 9:38 pm**

glitterboy2098 wrote:rifter #20 has a coalition TAG team OCC add-on, (IE sniper), just apply it to any man-of-arms OCC you want.

don't have it.

Posted: **Sat Jun 12, 2004 9:51 pm**

then improvise.

i once helped my twin brother make an Elf Sniper from the assasin occ in mercinaries. very interesting charachter, a guy who's job is to blend in and dissapear, but his PB was 28, 2 more than APHRODITE. the godess of love.

too bad that one never got used. would have been interesting.

sure, if they don't have MDC armor on they are no harder for a trained sniper to kill than one today. I'm talking about a pitched battle where both side, if not expecting it, at least were aware of the posibility and took precautions.

rifter #23 also has rules for through the armor shots with MDC weapons, its a skill only Snipers have. (basically it reflets a Snipers trainin to target weakpoints of the targets.)

Posted: **Sat Jun 12, 2004 10:27 pm**

wolfe wrote:
but a core won't have enough radiation to hamper it any. it can't just be any amount of radiation, or else they would never regen, it has to be a certain critical mass for it to do anything, and a core or a sliver won't cut it.

ok just consider it a silver plated u-round, but oh yes a uranium core has plenty of radiation and will seriously injure and hamper the vampire..

sliver plated yes, U-core, no, close, but NOT enough.

true, but everyone here seemed to be complaining that you can't get a one it kill in like all these military buffs would like to see. they just can't seem to grasp that those days on teh battlefeild are over in Rifts.

wrong there,
get me and a m82a2 rifle within standoff range and that tank commander is going to have a really bad day..
as it applies to rifts..get me and a high powered sniper rifle in range of a tank commander and his day is over.
replace tank commander with any other officer still the same result.
they didnt get rid of it they made sure we had it...gave mdc to armor locations like heads for instance..
but also the sniper targets other items than people, i snipe that sensor system off your enforcer bot,your in for a looong day or a short one

I'm talking about a pitched battle where both side, if not expecting it, at least were aware of the posibility and took precautions.

the only place safe from a sniper during a pitched battle is buried inside a seriously armored vehicle or bunker

but thats when the sniper goes to using a laser designator and seriously ruins the command staffs day, and snipers with a laser designator are one very,very serious threat one never takes lightly-and those are so much fun i wish rifts had them-

you can be aware and take all the precautions you want on a battlefield you are still always going to be in jeopardy of getting tagged by a sniper thats just how it is. THE primary reason enlisted dont salute us officers on the field.. - and if one does salute me on the field..if the sniper doesnt kill me I'll kill you myself -

that's a tank. this is a Dead Boy we're talking about here. much thougher than a 20th century tank. you arn't getting though in one hit unless you use a Boom Gun.

also a sniper is really good for interrupting those pesky magic users during spellcasting. hehehe

my favorite use for a sniping attack.

sniper o.c.c. would be good..
its a profession not a skill,you can be trained but unless you make it your profession-live, eat,breathe it, you will never get good at it.

thats why I say there SHOULD be a sniper OCC. as is, it's only a skill

snipers obsolete??
snipers wont be obsolete till war itself is made obsolete.

I'm afriad I misstated myself. snipers AS ONE HIT KILL MEN are obsolete.
they are far, far from usless, and is why I would like to see the OCC.

Posted: **Sun Jun 13, 2004 12:07 am**

wolfe wrote:i see there..
i was agreeing with you on the sniper occ there..
about the core thing..

calling it silver plated still means there is a uranium core,the only difference is in the wording..was just making it more clearer with the silver plating.

ahhh, to me, "uranium core" means a small speck.

that's a tank. this is a Dead Boy we're talking about here. much thougher than a 20th century tank. you arn't getting though in one hit unless you use a Boom Gun.

sorry wasnt clear..you misunderstand here, tank commanders like sitting out in the open hatch even in a pitched battle they can see better, and can defend the tank better with the crew served weapon, that tank gun isnt much good if you have an infantry man standing 10' away with an antitank weapon.

so the sniper takes him out and the tank is much more vulnerable.

ah, ok, makes sense

for rifts it wouldnt change much, even with all the advanced sensors onboard..as some people are invisible ot those sensors, its easier to detect tank traps,and so on.. one of those here with armor experience could explain this better.

when you have cameras as good as your eyes and can turn around just as easily, I think they have no reason to go out.

they are still not obsolete though.
with the weapons available in rifts that are still capable of being used to snipe with, those helmets can still be blown away in one shot.
or take out those systems mounted on vehicles,power armor,robot vehicles and so on..
one could say thats why the coalition raised the armor (mdc) of the new helmets, it just wasnt enough to stop those darn pesky snipers from tagging the troops in the brain bucket.

yes, that's why they upped the MDC on their helments. . . and if you look at the GM's Guide most armors helemts have between 40 and 60 MDC. . . not something that can be blown away that easily.

Posted: **Sun Jun 13, 2004 1:07 am**

you're all forgeting one magor problem with rail guns as sniping weapons.

they fire bursts, and a burst CANNOT be a called shot.

so the sherrian rail gun cannot be used to take someone's head out. unless you put the barrel right up aginst it, and that isn't sniping.

Posted: **Sun Jun 13, 2004 1:08 am**

wolfe wrote:
when you have cameras as good as your eyes and can turn around just as easily, I think they have no reason to go out.

after the sniper has taken out said cameras what choice does he have?
and he still has to man the crew weapons mounted outside..

40 and 60 MDC. . . not something that can be blown away that easily.

which is why i use the shemarrian railgun..
and not to mention that lovely weapon the NE-75H doing 2D4X10+20 MCD those helmets arent stopping much, but as you say they arent easily available to rifts in any major quantity yet..

but with demand comes supply..
as the defense tech evolves so too does weapon tech..one of those never ending vicious cricles of military advancement. once the armor gets better they develop a weapon to defeat it..

Actualy, I was under the Impresion that that gun(the Shemarrian railgun) fired what is basicaly a shotgun round, I will have to look it up

Not sure how doable or Dificult a Slug or sabo type round would be for it since It would be a custom job, and the gun may not be designed to handle a solid round to start with.

Posted: **Sun Jun 13, 2004 1:20 am**

Nekira Sudacne wrote:you're all forgeting one magor problem with rail guns as sniping weapons.

they fire bursts, and a burst CANNOT be a called shot.

so the sherrian rail gun cannot be used to take someone's head out. unless you put the barrel right up aginst it, and that isn't sniping.

The Shemmarian Rail Gun is a single shot weapon only.

And yes a burst can be a Called Shot.

Posted: **Sun Jun 13, 2004 1:33 am**

Im going to clarify something, (their is a disadvantage to living in clearlake, you often have someone just down the street who can tell you in EXCRUCIATING detail how something will work)

Bascialy the GB boomgun fires whats basicaly a stack of 50 metal dowls. If so the odds are that the buisness end of a Boomgun is probably looks like a serries of rail guns and looking into the barrel from the front it probably looks something like the front end of a french mitrailleuse. If not, it probably grabs a "stack" of 50 slugs and propells them down the barrel followed by the next "stack and so on in sequecne, a Solid slug would only get he boost off of the first group that "fires" however I got the impresion that "dry firing" a rail gun without a payload is never a good idea.

Posted: **Sun Jun 13, 2004 6:07 pm**

wolfe wrote:
The way it was explained to us was that using a 20mm or .50 cal was illegal by the Geneva Convention {which we never actually signed btw}, but we could shoot their equipment... it's not OUR fault the enemy happened to be WEARING the LBE, ruck-sack, helmet, et cetera that the team sniper shot...

well its in correct.
have run into many troopers who for some strange reason(their sargeants told them) that its against the convention, well its not.
look at it this way why teach you how to fire the m2hb at troops but then tell you that firing a .50 sniper rifle at personnel is illegal?
Or place 20-25mm vulcan cannons on the spectre gunship,who's only role is ground support if you can't fire them at troops?

for instance:
FM 17-12-7 chptr 10 targets and target mechanisms:
The light (L) target designator is primarily for light infantry vehicles, trucks, antitank guns, and personnel targets engaged with 25-mm, caliber .50, or 7.62-mm weapon systems.

FM 17-12-8 chapter 2 weapon systems and ammunition capabilities:
The M2 HB machine gun is used to engage dismounted infantry, crew-served weapons, ATGM teams, light-armor vehicles, and aircraft.

FM 27-10 THE LAW OF LAND WARFARE
It is especially forbidden * * * to employ arms, projectiles, or material calculated to cause unnecessary suffering. (HR, art. 23, par. (e).)

b. Interpretation. What weapons cause "unnecessary injury" can only be determined in light of the practice of States in refraining from the use of a given weapon because it is believed to have that effect. The prohibition certainly does not extend to the use of explosives contained in artillery projectiles, mines, rockets, or hand grenades. Usage has, however, established the illegality of the use of lances with barbed heads, irregular-shaped bullets, and projectiles filled with glass, the use of any substance on bullets that would tend unnecessarily to inflame a wound inflicted by them, and the scoring of the surface or the filing off of the ends of the hard cases of bullets.

Well actually, it was the lieuenants who told us that and us sergeant types who said "Fine. So, weshoot the equipmentthey're wearing... sir." {Lopsided grin at silly over-paid private as words exit mouth.}

Posted: **Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:15 pm**

ROTC possible, then again I think OCS does something horrible to people to make them lack any kind of common military knowledge. I once asked a Lt. to get me a box of grid squares from the conex because he was interjecting useless things during sergeant's time... and he went there... we all forgot about him, and he never did find any grid squares lol...
At any rate, were I a sniper in Rifts, I'd want either the Shemarrian Rail Gun or the NE-75H.

Posted: **Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:43 pm**

Vrykolas2k wrote:Of course, it also opens the door for people playing Coalition soldiers to perform the tried-and-true "sniper check"... that's right, saluting that dipstick Lt. in the field lol. Or the FNG who doesn't know anything... hehe.

??? errr... I admit, I'm no military expert... no experience, those uniformed bums just did not want me to do my military service when I ought to, and I spent my buff points elsewhere... are you meaning that (presumably in viet nam, but possibly even now in Iraq and Afghanistan) some troopers salute officers (presumably the least liked ones) in the field, so as to designate "important" targets to possible enemy snipers? and what is an FNG?

Posted: **Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:59 pm**

FNG is "fragging" new guy.
As for the sniper check... well, I'm not going to say it happens nor am I going to say it doesn't... though it is certainly an amusing thought. :lol:

Posted: **Mon Jun 14, 2004 2:07 pm**

Nekira Sudacne wrote:
Drakenred wrote:Just feast your eyes on Naruni Tecks (Phase world source book Catalog number 817 page 54) Ever popular NE-75H, Its slices, It Dices, and Flambes all with one triggerpull! It outranges most Power armor weapon systems and it packs a lovly 2D4X10+20 MCD in each of its Plasma packets,

But you say that the soon to be deceaced is wearing plasma proof Body armr and regenerates faster than a Dragon, then take a look at out fine line of third party weaponsystems, Expecialy the PH-400!

And all of this is avalible to you with reasonable Credit tearms.

that's phaseworld, not Rifts. it dosn't help any as it's more than a little difficult to get on Rifts earth.

right for the Ph400... but don't forget that Naruni is back to rifts earth

Posted: **Mon Jun 14, 2004 2:36 pm**

wolfe wrote:
but a core won't have enough radiation to hamper it any. it can't just be any amount of radiation, or else they would never regen, it has to be a certain critical mass for it to do anything, and a core or a sliver won't cut it.

ok just consider it a silver plated u-round, but oh yes a uranium core has plenty of radiation and will seriously injure and hamper the vampire...

well... those custom rail gun rounds (wood, U rounds, DUC rds, silver plated rds...) are taking up A LOT of time and resources to make and deploy... but a silver coated U round, with the necessary magnetic metal content so it can actually *work* in a gausse effect gun... that *does* seem to stretch the bounds of efficiency and feasability, even in a war economy.

all of you who're thinking of specialty rail gun rounds... please *don't* forget that to be useful, the round must have enough magnetic content (and uranium is *not* magnetic) to be carried to useful range with sufficient force to damage the foe.

also, if there are experts in ballistics... the sheer range and damage factor of the GB Boom Gun and the Shemarrian rifle aside... are Discarding Sabot flechette ammo good choice for sniping, as I've seen some major advocating of such weapons here? .

ah, , also... whoever spoke of snipers with laser designators... does that mean that one sniper role is artillery spotter?
[/quote]

Posted: **Mon Jun 14, 2004 2:56 pm**

ah, , also... whoever spoke of snipers with laser designators... does that mean that one sniper role is artillery spotter?

yes. artillery spotter, ground designator for smart bombing, even recon.

Posted: **Mon Jun 14, 2004 3:18 pm**

svartalf wrote:
Nekira Sudacne wrote:
Drakenred wrote:Just feast your eyes on Naruni Tecks (Phase world source book Catalog number 817 page 54) Ever popular NE-75H, Its slices, It Dices, and Flambes all with one triggerpull! It outranges most Power armor weapon systems and it packs a lovly 2D4X10+20 MCD in each of its Plasma packets,

But you say that the soon to be deceaced is wearing plasma proof Body armr and regenerates faster than a Dragon, then take a look at out fine line of third party weaponsystems, Expecialy the PH-400!

And all of this is avalible to you with reasonable Credit tearms.

that's phaseworld, not Rifts. it dosn't help any as it's more than a little difficult to get on Rifts earth.

right for the Ph400... but don't forget that Naruni is back to rifts earth

but they still arn't selling their best tech.

Posted: **Tue Jun 15, 2004 12:10 pm**

Nekira Sudacne wrote:
svartalf wrote:
Nekira Sudacne wrote:
Drakenred wrote:Just feast your eyes on Naruni Tecks (Phase world source book Catalog number 817 page 54) Ever popular NE-75H, Its slices, It Dices, and Flambes all with one triggerpull! It outranges most Power armor weapon systems and it packs a lovly 2D4X10+20 MCD in each of its Plasma packets,

But you say that the soon to be deceaced is wearing plasma proof Body armr and regenerates faster than a Dragon, then take a look at out fine line of third party weaponsystems, Expecialy the PH-400!

And all of this is avalible to you with reasonable Credit tearms.

that's phaseworld, not Rifts. it dosn't help any as it's more than a little difficult to get on Rifts earth.

right for the Ph400... but don't forget that Naruni is back to rifts earth

but they still arn't selling their best tech.

Well depending on your GM they could very well be selling whatever they make and then some.

But by and large It seems like the group currently on earth is a distinct company (Sub company?)which basicaly means that they have their own product lines. they may very well be the Naruni version of Dodge or Plymoth.

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