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I'm with you. I think it's a brilliant idea. The board is filled with possible ways to get around it, but if you think about it, if there was a chance you could die evertime you touched metal, would you try to figure out how to use it anyway or would you run in terror everytime you saw a spoon.

Now you know why Spoon! is a terrifying battlecry.

slappy wrote:I'm with you. I think it's a brilliant idea. The board is filled with possible ways to get around it, but if you think about it, if there was a chance you could die evertime you touched metal, would you try to figure out how to use it anyway or would you run in terror everytime you saw a spoon.

Well I would try to overcome the problem somehow. I'm fond of shiny object.

Do Ranged Weapons have a "M.D.C. of Weapon"
like Melee Weapons and just about everything
else in Splicers?

Do Ranged Weapons if they have a "M.D.C. of Weapon",
regeneration like everything else?

If I purchase a Ranged Weapon Upgrade for a
weapon like Organic Rockets or Trench Foot Mines.
That is a single tem that can be purchased multiple
times at a low cost. Does the Upgrade effect all
of the current (and maybe future purchases) of
that weapon or just a single one, like the more
expensive weapons?

Can Horns, Claws and Teeth be upgrade to the next
size with the different in cost? or Do you pay the
full cost of the next size? or Once you purchase
them you have them and they cannot be replaced?

Is there a list of the effects, cost and other fun
things that happen when you use Dentistry (p192) on
Horns and Teeth? Are the changes S.D.C. like in
the text or should it be M.D.C.?

What kind of Armor does a Dentist in the Resistance
wear or are they like the Falconer they work best
by 'remote control'?

I may have found a mistake in the stat listing for the Host Armor named "Rush" (my memory isn't working, but I believe its owner's name is Ralph the Red or something--he's only mentioned in the book a hundred times ). After the section listing all the Host Armor enhancements, it uses Rush as an example of how to create a HA. For first level purchases, it lists Ambidexterity as one of them. Now, in its description, Ambidexterity has the prerequisite of Enhanced Neurological Connections; but ENC isn't one of Ralph's first level enhancements.

Which is wrong? The list of chosen enhancements, or the prerequisite listed?

Just my thoughts,
Poocho

I would say the enhancements list is based on Carmen's original bio-e list and wasnt updated when the list was edited... There are a number of such issues thruout the book. List is wrong, based on the way ambidex and enhanced neural are written the prereq makes sense.

*edit*

Went back thru the posts looking for something else for another debate I'm in and found Carmens original answer to this - yes, the prereq was added in editing after he wrote up Ralph's armor. (back on page 1 of this very thread no less)

Okay. Thanks for the clarification.

Couple things that have come up recently on the boards:

Biotic PS:
The Enhanced Physical Strength upgrade limits Biotics to a PS of 40 and states that they have human strength. The Biotic OCC bonuses state they have Splicer PS - which strength is right and is the 40 PS cap for just that upgrade of an absolute upper limit for Biotics? Just for reference, its possible to get a 51 PS after the 1d8 OCC bonus and physical skills given a maximum of 2 bonus die for an exceptional stat (30 max before OCC/skills bonuses).

Legs: Multiple Pairs of:
Is the new lower body considered to have its own MDC total or is the 3d6x10 from the modification simply added to the main body MDC of the armor? Unlike Serpentine Lower Body, Multiple Legs is unclear on this matter.

Thanks for the clarifications

Question:

How could you even tell if it's Earth, from Maps? Isn't Gaia doing a massive overhaul of the planet's surface thanks to her Terraforming efforts? After 300 years of a schitzophrenic group of micro managers establishing what they think the place should "look"lke" It's highly unlikely, even if it was earth, that you'd be able to recognize any significant feature.

And even if you do find Mount Rushmore, who's to say that it's not a replica Mt. Rushmore?

Such musings are precisely why Carmen never actually said what planet Splicers is set on. Legends of Rushmore, Lincoln, Washington or wherever else may simply be fragmented oral histories from before the colony on whatever planet this is was created - or it could actually be Earth, thats the twisted beauty of it all. The planet can be whatever suits your needs.

Carmen, I would like to start by saying that I was told that your book was "The Guyver" meets "The Terminator" and while that may be a fair take, after reading it I feel it is a very well done game setting. I enjoyed your use of biological technology, and you have taken it to such an extreme it has a very real sense of trepidation. Have the humans abandoned their very humanity in an effort to survive? This to me is the central theme, and I think very well done. I hope you can get a sourcebook or two together to elaborate on some of the more generalized aspects of the story, and maybe include more info on how normal humans that are not part of the resistance survive on a daily basis. Also information on the often mentioned Great Houses would be...ehem...great.

Was going to ask about what in a Medical kit, but that's on page 153 in the Outrider's Standard Equipment.

But the other question is in every OCC's Standard Equipment is something like the following: "...light or heavy Bio-Weapon of choice and one weapon for each W.P. with an appropriate amount of ammunition,". Is ammunition for the Bio-Weapon or for the W.P.'s weapon like a bow or crossbow? If for the Bio-Weapon does that mean that there is a way to external load it like the Shard weapons .(open mouth for feeding it bone)? Is just a 'copy and paste' or is the answer coming it the future sourcebook .(may we all live that long)?

Anyone notice hand to hand combat: commando is not available to any class at this time?

I just received a copy of Splicers, and have read up through the section on the robots, and then skipped around looking for the OCC's. This brought up a host of questions.

For example, do you get the impression that the nano-plague-bots can fly? Or that they permeate inside the denizens of that world (somehow bypassing their natural immune response)? Because porting characters OUT seems like a much liklier event than porting characters IN (sort of the reverse of Wormwood).

The reason I am asking is that since the nano-plage-bots are described as non-self-replicating, then each person only carries around a finite number of them. If these bots then get activated by metal/flesh contact, then some of the nanites then would have to leave the person to activate the hostile response, and even if the nanites were not expended, that would mean that there were X less on the person (X being the number - or percentage - that left to initiate response).

If the nanites are expended in this process (as I would argue particularly in the case of the animated drone response), then that gets rid of a bunch of them. Even if they didn't get expended, unless they can "fly back" to the original host, they are just stuck on the metal in question (which would probably be reduced to slag anyway).

Regardless, in either case I would argue that the percentage of hostile response would correspond to a percentage depeletion of nanites in the person that left Splicerlandia, and after two or three times of touching metal there probably wouldn't be any nanite activity worth speaking of (and if the nanites were restricted to the outside of the person, as it implies by the fact that infants in the womb are not affected until they are actually exposed to Splicerlania air, then they could probably be reduced further by other cleansing means - like a chemical/radiation/extreme temperature exposure).

What I like about that idea is that even if the plague response is gone, the person is still going to have what is effectively a phobia about touching exposed metal tech - which they are likely NEVER going to get over (simply because it is what they have been exposed to for so long).

Nanites are airborne by virtue of being small. Bacteria can't "fly" either.

They infect non-precious metal, so if a person's supply is "exhausted", any contact with metal will still cause a response. Mind you, the airborne nanites will quickly infect a person once again - they saturate the Splicers environment.


Think of the plague as making metal allergic to mammals.

sHaka wrote:Nanites are airborne by virtue of being small. Bacteria can't "fly" either.

They infect non-precious metal, so if a person's supply is "exhausted", any contact with metal will still cause a response. Mind you, the airborne nanites will quickly infect a person once again - they saturate the Splicers environment.


Think of the plague as making metal allergic to mammals.

Ah - I see the confusion. I am talking about removing a given character from the Splicer world - the nanites would no longer be infecting everything - just that character, who then is carrying around a finite supply of the little buggers.

What little detail is presented for characters rifted off world indicates it would take years at the very least to cleanse the body of the nanites present. There have been a number of debates as to whether or not humans rifted from Splicers would outlive the nanite infestation. You of course reached one of the more logical conclusions of what would happen if they can - permanent phobia surrounding all things metallic, degree set to GM discression but I would personally make it at least severe and likely debilitating.

I saw it mentioned that some of the robots have railguns.

How is it worked assuming that a character is hit by the railgun slug/flechette? What sort of metal is this treated as?

You Know wrote:I saw it mentioned that some of the robots have railguns.

How is it worked assuming that a character is hit by the railgun slug/flechette? What sort of metal is this treated as?

If it gets lodged in the wound - plague reaction!

Splicer's greatest Freelancer that never was, Slappy, has designed a great weapon that works intentionally along such lines.

KaozCrow wrote:Or you could taze them. The electro pulse sent through the body should fry any nanites. A powerful electro magnet would fry them as well. Not pull them off mind you, but the EM feild would kill the nanites. So the Rifts world can cure the nanite plauge, but the Splicer's world can't. Any splicer that found a rift to Rifts Earth would be fine.
I do agree though that the stigma surrounding metal would leave the newly cured splicers mentaly scarrened for life.

It would likely require a EMP or a MRI machine(that would forcefully rip any metal bots right out), Unless of course the Nanites are non-metallic (non-magnetic) and have tempest(EMP) shielding.

Hey Carmen, what effect does the loss of the power station at Barren Marshes have on robots attempting to retake the region?

Do host armors have to *ahem* expel their wastes like living creatures (those that don't have casting guns or gore cannons anyway)?

Similarly, can the pilot's wastes be drawn on to fuel a casting gun?
Maybe the pilots waste feeds the armor and the armours waste feeds the pilot?

Do host armors have to *ahem* expel their wastes like living creatures (those that don't have casting guns or gore cannons anyway)?

Similarly, can the pilot's wastes be drawn on to fuel a casting gun?
Maybe the pilots waste feeds the armor and the armours waste feeds the pilot?

I say yes to all. If your host armor has the best regeneration and if you loss an arm or leg you need to stay in it for a few weeks straight to regrow it.

bradshaw wrote:Do host armors have to *ahem* expel their wastes like living creatures (those that don't have casting guns or gore cannons anyway)?

They're a living organism, so depending on the metabolism, yes. Although I have trouble picturing a host armor holding a newspaper while using the host armor sized facilities...and depending on the metabolism it might be human-like fecal matter, or pellets like a rabbit, to things more exotic from the photosynthetic releasing oxygen, thermosynthetic might release CO2 or other gases, etc.

bradshaw wrote:Similarly, can the pilot's wastes be drawn on to fuel a casting gun?

I'd say yes. The pilots waste has to be expelled somehow, I'd say that armors with casting guns don't have any other way to expel it. If they aren't needed for combat and are fully loaded, excess casting pellets just pop out. Those host armors would just have their anus located elsewhere than normal.

bradshaw wrote:Maybe the pilots waste feeds the armor and the armours waste feeds the pilot?

There's a circle of life I don't really want to think about.

Although parasitic armor specifically states it does feed off the pilot's waste (as well as outer layer of skin, hair, etc). But I imagine the pilot has to step out to eat for parasitic armors, it isn't a perfect circle since energy is expended by moving and just being alive. Energy has to enter that circle somehow.

All of the other types could be said to get their food as normal and pass nutrients on to the pilot. It's just one more drawback to Parasitic to balance out their uber-combat bonuses.

Awesome game!
I always wanted to play a guyver

I don't imagine the splicers game as a guyver-esque world. Thats just a personal preference.

bradshaw wrote:Do host armors have to *ahem* expel their wastes like living creatures (those that don't have casting guns or gore cannons anyway)?

Similarly, can the pilot's wastes be drawn on to fuel a casting gun?
Maybe the pilots waste feeds the armor and the armours waste feeds the pilot?

Re: Host Armor scat:
I would also say yes to Host Armor deploying scat and it resembles the type of metabolism they have chosen and in the portions they have consumed. So if you have a Carnivore Host Armor and it eats as mush as a lion then guess what, your load that you are leaving is the size, smell and looks of a lion's scat (fluid or bowel type). Herbivore and so on...

I feel that this adds to the living aspect that Splicers has in the RPG and in fact I have mentioned this aspect several times to Slappy in our current work as something that GMs & Players need to be mindful of. It allows enemies to track you as well as it is part of Host Armor hygiene that if not taken care might be a giveaway to your location & whereabouts. See if your a big smelly Host Armor walking around or you have a big smelly Warmount then guess just how strong/offensive your scent must be and how easy you are to find and track. This makes for characters having to take advantage of nearby water, ponds, etc by washing and or bathing their HA, gore-beast and Warmounts when possible and definitely before they deploy for a mission. Disguising scents may also play a nice role when hunting, stalking, etc. by rolling around in the nearby grass and brush.

Even the HA digestive system should be flushed when back at a bunker or Haven, most preferably by a Saint or at least a bio-flushing system.

Re: Pilot waste as Casting fodder fuel:
I say why not as long as it is bio-engineered by the Engineer for that use. This would mean that the pilot does their thing and some sort of waste unit is covering their release areas and funnels the waste into a reservoir that is cycled to the Casting weaponry though obviously what the human releases is not as much as the HA or Warmounts so this will only give a limited casting fodder supply. Just remember the human host inside has not washed his/her parts so when they get out they might not be the freshest person, !

Kryzbyn wrote:Awesome game!
I always wanted to play a guyver

And so you actually just might get the chance. There are various Librarians and Engineers from various Houses involved in designing the bio-tech and their aesthetics. So while one might design HA armor to look one way, Another might have a fondness for their designs resemblinag more Guyverisk look/aesthetic to them. This is the simple preference of style.

The key for us Artists though is to avoid anything that might resemble another property. So inorder to protect the Publisher and ourselves we have to define things in a more unique aesthetic, not to mention we hope these aesthetics are just as strong and influential. So while you might not see a guyverisk illustration for an HA, it doesn't mean that such designs can't exist in Splicers. You guys are in control of your own campaigns, and HA designs in the end of things so have fun. I will be sure though to try and give you all some good & interesting choices that will be on least par with Guyver .

A]] Simply put: does the Resistance to Cold feature partially or almost completely nullify the weaknesses of the Thermosynthetic Armor, or is it just a defense that 'manifests' itself in Gameplay/Combat -put another way, is the resistance ONLY used in Game Terms if an opponent is using a Cold-based attack and the Armor otherwise retains the exact same weaknesses for reasons of Game Balance??

In what ways, if any, might it positively affect the Armor?

B]]Is it ONLY the basic Glow Cell that can be tweaked to shine in different spectrums of light??

C]] With a Glow Cell installed onto my Armor for purposes of simple illumination, if I upgrade that Glow Cell to, say, a Super Light Cell......do I still get to alternate its use between Simple Flashlight and Offensive Weapon, or do I forever afterward lose the Glow Cell as a light source??


(BTW, I've PM'ed Carmen and hopefully he'll give us an official or semi-official answer at some point; your own opinions are valued in the meantime.)

ShadowcatX wrote:One could also put forth the arguement that since there's only one ocean, it can't be earth.

The single ocean, combined with the fact that (Palladium) Earth, a Megaversal nexus, has never been this magic/psionic negative, strongly points to this planet NOT being Earth.

Even Wormwood is more energetic than this planet is.

demos606 wrote:Hey Carmen, what effect does the loss of the power station at Barren Marshes have on robots attempting to retake the region?

According to page 20 of the Book, NEXUS apparently doesn't "trust" most of her robot models to run autonomously and it was the destruction of the Computer Core, NOT the power station, that stopped them in their tracks.

The Power Stations are there only to run the local factories (Industrial Centers).

Of course, it is only child's play for NEXUS to start re-establishing what we in electronics call Repeater Towers and extends her influence into the Barren Marshes once more...or maybe the Digital Ladies will just draw the whole affair out -you know, let those Humans only THINK that they have a chance of prevailing.....

Is Corn correct in assuming that those Energy pistols/rifles, that DON'T have a payload, still subscribe to the idea that they have a limited number of shots based upon the user's PE??

(In other words, Corn is assuming that the Payload on those Weapons were erroneously left out, and that despite the text saying "effectively unlimited," that you didn't really mean that, Carmen.)

The payloads are effectively unlimited as they draw on the users body for their power. Bio-e rifles, pistols and vents will fire as many shots as the user is willing to take penaltys for beyond their PE score. If you hand the gun to a new user it starts a new count on their PE score assuming they haven't fired that type of weapon in whatever the proper time frame is.

demos606 wrote:The payloads are effectively unlimited as they draw on the users body for their power. Bio-e rifles, pistols and vents will fire as many shots as the user is willing to take penaltys for beyond their PE score. If you hand the gun to a new user it starts a new count on their PE score assuming they haven't fired that type of weapon in whatever the proper time frame is.

That's why I'm asking Carmen (and anybody else in the know) that question.

There are several of the Pistols and Rifles in the Bio-Weapons section that say "effectively unlimited" but which don't list the Penalties and/or Payload.

I have to see/know if Carmen really intended those few Weps to have a truly unlimited Payload with other types of restrictions, OR if they are "run-of-the-mill" and just run on the User's PE attribute.

See page 135 to see what I mean, and remember that there are other Weapon types that have a similarly 'unlimited' payload and only have to be fed in a Vat every few days or so, hence the confusion.

Only stuff that comes to mind for effectively unlimited without a PE tie-in is light based weaponry - light cells and their related weaponry. Of course, I'm away from my books and might simply not remember something but light weapons don't really need an external energy source, can design those similar to fireflys and have it be an extremely powerful chemical reaction. The speed at which the chemicals can be produced coupled with the minimscule amounts needed to produce the necessary reactions would allow for effectively unlimited payloads.

Kryzbyn wrote:Awesome game!
I always wanted to play a guyver

Well, Kryzbyn i designed a Guyver type HA, but i couldn't post it, since its too close to stepping on toes (in regards to copyright issues).

sHaka wrote:Nanites are airborne by virtue of being small. Bacteria can't "fly" either.

They infect non-precious metal, so if a person's supply is "exhausted", any contact with metal will still cause a response. Mind you, the airborne nanites will quickly infect a person once again - they saturate the Splicers environment.


Think of the plague as making metal allergic to mammals.

Non-precious metals? So I can make Titanium and Palladium composite armor? I could have sworn the books said that they basically infect non-elemental metal (brass, steel, Ti Pa composite, alluminum, etc... while pure elemental metal would be free of nanites not because they can't but because they were programmed that way. So if they had the Tarnow rock from Rifts it would be fine since the thing makes MDC out of elemental metals. I should probably use base instead of elemental.

Steve President George W. Bush wrote:I just received a copy of Splicers, and have read up through the section on the robots, and then skipped around looking for the OCC's. This brought up a host of questions.

For example, do you get the impression that the nano-plague-bots can fly? Or that they permeate inside the denizens of that world (somehow bypassing their natural immune response)? Because porting characters OUT seems like a much liklier event than porting characters IN (sort of the reverse of Wormwood).

The reason I am asking is that since the nano-plage-bots are described as non-self-replicating, then each person only carries around a finite number of them. If these bots then get activated by metal/flesh contact, then some of the nanites then would have to leave the person to activate the hostile response, and even if the nanites were not expended, that would mean that there were X less on the person (X being the number - or percentage - that left to initiate response).

If the nanites are expended in this process (as I would argue particularly in the case of the animated drone response), then that gets rid of a bunch of them. Even if they didn't get expended, unless they can "fly back" to the original host, they are just stuck on the metal in question (which would probably be reduced to slag anyway).

Regardless, in either case I would argue that the percentage of hostile response would correspond to a percentage depeletion of nanites in the person that left Splicerlandia, and after two or three times of touching metal there probably wouldn't be any nanite activity worth speaking of (and if the nanites were restricted to the outside of the person, as it implies by the fact that infants in the womb are not affected until they are actually exposed to Splicerlania air, then they could probably be reduced further by other cleansing means - like a chemical/radiation/extreme temperature exposure).

What I like about that idea is that even if the plague response is gone, the person is still going to have what is effectively a phobia about touching exposed metal tech - which they are likely NEVER going to get over (simply because it is what they have been exposed to for so long).

If your looking for a way to remove the nanites (the fear would remain, like you stated) just have them have to travel through the nightspawn dimension in order to get to where ever they're going. Make Nightspawn the only gateway out of Splicers... unless you want to bring the plague in its limited form into Rifts or HU. By passing through the Nightspawn dimension they pass through the mirror wall and all metal that passes through the mirror wall is destroyed, just gone, evaporated.

Zer0 Kay wrote:Non-precious metals? So I can make Titanium and Palladium composite armor? I could have sworn the books said that they basically infect non-elemental metal (brass, steel, Ti Pa composite, alluminum, etc... while pure elemental metal would be free of nanites not because they can't but because they were programmed that way. So if they had the Tarnow rock from Rifts it would be fine since the thing makes MDC out of elemental metals. I should probably use base instead of elemental.

I can be corrected but Titanium isnt a precious metal but Palladium is. and yes you could make a fair few things out of precious metals

we were just discussing a lot of these points in the 'question about starting money' thread

krispy wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:Non-precious metals? So I can make Titanium and Palladium composite armor? I could have sworn the books said that they basically infect non-elemental metal (brass, steel, Ti Pa composite, alluminum, etc... while pure elemental metal would be free of nanites not because they can't but because they were programmed that way. So if they had the Tarnow rock from Rifts it would be fine since the thing makes MDC out of elemental metals. I should probably use base instead of elemental.

I can be corrected but Titanium isnt a precious metal but Palladium is. and yes you could make a fair few things out of precious metals

we were just discussing a lot of these points in the 'question about starting money' thread

It is rare in its pure form which is the only way that Splicers would actually be able to use it as the methods for pulling it from other materials is higly technical and require things they can't manufacture... maybe some lithovores can eat the stuff and poop out pure ingots. Still doesn't matter IIRC it is base metals and not "precious metals" that determine infestation. So Gold, Palladium, Titanium, Silver, Uranium in their pure base state aren't infested but as soon as they make a composite metal it shows high enough technology base to warrant infestation.

The term 'precious metals' typically refers to gold, silver, and platinum. All of these metals have their own unique and useful properties(like silver being an even better conductor of electricity than copper), but they are also all three very weak metals. They make for lousy heavy tools and worse weapons, even as standard damage weapons.

The common metals are typically copper, tin, iron, alluminum and their derivatives. Those are the metals you would want to for tool usage and electronics due to availability and relative strength.

Palladium is one of those semi-precious metals, so I would count it if I were a Splicers GM. Palladium, interestingly, has a weird property of increasing its own mass by sucking oxygen atoms out of the air.

Titanium isn't precious at all. I bought my titanium wedding ring for $5 US on eBay. Even my previous tungstun-carbide ring cost more than that.

Hey!

Ok, so I'm new here, been playing Palladium since 1986/87 (year or two after Robotech was released).

Just got Splicers, 2 weeks ago, since it got added to RPGnet [Please note "powers-that-be", I will NEVER buy a [standard] physical book again - I LITERALLY have to take a suitcase full of nothing but Palladium books with me every time I want to play a game... Taking my laptop is VASTLY more efficient, love your books, have bought many pdf's and will buy more!!! Please move up your PDF availability PLEASE!!! /end rant]

I love it!!!!!!!! Awesome book, and interesting setting. Aside from anything else, it is EXACTLY kind of "tech" I've always wanted in a PB game - it (literally) grows with you!! No more - "look my [type x armor/bot] is awesome!" at level 1, but at level 7... "Wait, you can do WHAT now? well... crap....."

I just spent several hours reading all the posts, and if I may, I would like to wade in on Therumancer's original postings. I hope I'm not re-opening any old wounds, but I have to admit, in my own reading of the book, I came up with almost the exact same "issues", though I have a very centralized response to them. I warn you this is a very long post, for which I apologize, but he had some serious points, and I tried to give them due consideration and response.

[Bracket numbers are mine]

1. How the bloody heck is anyone in Splicers supposed to be ignorant of what planet they are on? You talk about the machines changing the continents, etc... etc


[1a] Assuming it's a colony world, where the heck is the government that created the colony? Even with nuclear weapons I'd give the machines maybe a year before a coordinated response blew the living crud out of them.

All told when I read this I was sitting here going "What?". I was jokingly thinking of splicers as "The first RPG where it's illegal to look into the sky, or actually use your Astronomy skill".


2. Memory discs and such things aside, I can't see books (which are not metal) being totally destroyed. Again this goes with the whole 'I don't buy this whole premise of ignorance' concept.

4. According to the way how things are written, plastic is not affected by the nano-plague. I don't think this has been thought through very well.

Most electronic devices and stuff are contained inside of plastic. To be quite frank you don't touch much metal using a lot of modern technology.

The way how things are defined, I'm not buying that all technology would pretty much be abandoned. All you'd see is a lot of heavy plastic casing around the stuff that people wanted to use.

[5] Even if that didn't work, electronics would continue to flourish. I mean we've got bio-technology that generated electricity. There is no reason why some bio-technologists couldn't create technology (as opposed to purely living organisms) by making wires out of electricity-generating biological material and then put them inside of a casing. It might be weird to have to feed your computer a steak every once in a while to keep it's electrical components healthy, but it's workable. Plus you could also make a lot of the technology photosynthetic (transparent plastic casing) which wouldn't be much worse than solar-power if it was implemented correctly.

[6] Given records and such I would think that logically people would begin to realize what had went wrong with the AI. Then they could builder faster, sexier, computers (perhaps without AI components) to hack the thing and shut it down.

[7] Not to mention the fact that the whole idea of microscopic robots is a complicated way of doing something that should be simple to do with bio-tech (ie your basically creating a germ). I see no reason why someone doesn't just use uber-bio-technology to create a living anti-body for the nanite plague and release it (ie a microscopic bio-organism that exists for no reason other than to eat the machine's nanites).

[8] This covers a lot of my conceptual problems. My review will eventually touch on a lot of things. To be honest I'm having some trouble getting my head around large portions of the central premise. All science fiction has some kind of holes in it but this one seems to have more than the usual share.

>>>----Therumancer--->

1, 2, 4, 6:

Basically I agree with Therumancer on all these points as "plot holes" or at least "logic holes", but not really his reasoning. If I may explain: all of this could be simple - it's untrue. Not wrong / a misprint in the book, it's just untrue. A conspiracy of the Librarians & Warlords (maybe to fool NEXUS into thinking humans are "falling" faster than she thought? Whatever, there are MANY reasons possible for this).

Unfortunately, why Theru is right is the one GLARING fault in Splicers (PLEASE NOTE, I LOVE these guys, and am planning on using them in other games - this isn't "smack talk" or anything, it's just that they really do "break the 4th wall" in this specific setting).

Technojackers

Yep, imagine this scenario: All of the above questions [1, 2, 4, 6] come up in casual conversation... a technojacker overhears and gets (mildly) curious.... he goes to a ghost town, walks up the first [Public-Library-Of-This-Future-World-From-Their-Past], walks in, touches the first open/unused (preferably out-of-the-way) terminal he comes to, and says "Display basic information on this planet, including name, star name, and any primary slang names."

Absolutely ZERO information (of a non-classified / military nature) could EVER be lost in this world. All one ever need do is hire a TJ for one afternoon, assign them a "normal" partner with a slug modified to record sound and visuals, and BOOM all ignorance is overcome.]

This would include making plastics, at a molecular level - important because even if: Miracle Fiber, PLASTIC, and Ceramic armors weren't still being made, with this information, the Librarians and Engineers could "cook up" something that would produce such, to be worked with.

As for manufacturing [see above, proving this is still done to some extent anyways], keep the Technojackers away from "normal folk", but make sure they have access to a few Repair wagons [with their comms ripped out], and they have a basic manufacturing plant fully stocked out with everything they need but the supplies.

As for [6], this is again something that sort of blatantly "breaks the 4th wall" - this might not have been doable, even 50 years ago, but given the current state of tech / affairs. This is how you cripple NEXUS (in each given area) in one afternoon:

[Please note this would require YEARS of prep, though only a very few select people would have to know anything about it, until a few days ahead of time.]

• Grow Pods for 50 TJ's [per Computer Core to be attacked, recommend 10 or more depending on troop availability] The Pods grow on the backs of Host Armors, and do nothing but refresh air supply within, and are considered "part" of the host armor [thus no need for the TJ to "access/use" the Bio-Tech],
• add Stealth field,
• stage MAJOR assault on Computer Core,
• now attack 5 "main" entrances with the "special elites" (that you know Ishtar is expecting),
• then have the stealthed HA's walk up to the door, turn around, crack 1 pod, TJ opens door, no alarms, 10 HA's w/TJ's at each door, so if anything bad happens... no prob,
• Walk in, find first terminal, repeat above for directions to "main computer core" at each location. Walk into computer core, dump (and protect) TJ's,
• TJ's initate [TJ-Equivalent-of-DDOS-attack] on NEXUS simultaneously,
• this either: simulates Computer Core shut down (due to overload), trips NEXUS emergency protocols (forcing NEXUS to disconnect), or allows the unified force of TJ's to directly attack the NEXUS core-code..., figure whichever way it goes, effectively or actually shuts down each CC for at least a few minutes, allowing the ENTIRE attacking force to obliterate the Computer Core unopposed.

Granted this would probably only work once, but it would effectively "hand" victory to the humans [for these areas]... and like I said, it would take YEARS of prep... but then, there are probably far more effective/efficient ways of doing this [I don't claim to be a military strategist, or diplomat for that matter]. The problem is that ONE TJ, is effectively impotent against NEXUS, but a few hundred? I doubt NEXUS's defenses ever had anything like a semi-psychic swarm-style assault foreseen. So, again.... those darn TJ's!!!

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As for [1a] - this one is tricky, Theru might be right OR wrong... since the machine controlled everything, for decades (minimum) it could simply have jammed any emergency calls... though it seems HIGHLY unlikely no one escaped to space since there ARE alien plants/animals, star travel was at some point a reality... On the other hand, Ishtar may have planned for that and waited for a lull in space-traffic, destroyed all ships in the system, and then declared the planet a bio-hazard zone (natural catastrophe? known alien enemy assault? etc...). It may be that the external government had forgotten about them before this, too - maybe the [whatever] planet, had seceded from the space-gov't, and cut off all ties, communications, and travel (for whatever reason)... I agree, it seems unlikely, but it really IS possible that there's no help coming.... [Darker minds might look to an external gov't that is actively watching to see what happens for either political, military, or even just plain ole' scientific curiosity.]

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[5] I have to agree totally here, between TJ's, Librarians, Engineers, and Geneticists (L/E/G's), there has to be some form of civilian / civilization tech POSSIBLE - however, again, it could be that the above-mentioned conspiracy applies here as well [some form of conspiracy-of-ignorance from the top]. Otherwise this is a gaping plot [logic] hole.

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Where 7 is concerned, I fully see the "suspension of belief" side... That being said, you would expect by now the L/E/G's would have made either an arm-cuff, or maybe even a skin-suit with the lithovore metabolism, that would act as a symbiotic blood-cleaner, literally eating the nanites from the host, reducing the viral load below the "dangerous" concentration. Also, air-vent "purifiers" to do the same thing to prevent re-infection of the masses... [I take this approach instead of the microbe, because as with all living things, mutation is possible, which could lead to a bigger problem than NEXUS in the end...] Again the easiest answer to this is my oft-mentioned conspiracy of ignorance...

[8] Well, it's been many years since your posting Theru, I've yet to see your full review.. would love to!


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Please note, this is not / was not meant to be a flame or anything like it. Just my thoughts on some things. I do completely disagree with Theru on one point - I don' think this game is going to die anytime soon, if for no other reason than it's import-ability to other systems.

Also, I must admit (ashamedly) the only reason I didn't buy this book back when it came out was the artwork (I'm sorry, but the cover sucked in my opinion - it didn't capture the description of the game AT ALL, seriously, it looked like standard PA being attacked by a walking 80's boom box). I know, I know.... never judge a book.... lesson learned... (I hope!)

Any comments in response would be more than welcome!

I'm new to Splicers. Literally just started reading the book today 1-20-14. While I appreciate almost all of my fellow forum mates (there are a couple that pet my cat backwards) I can't believe that ANYONE is still arguing over What Planet It Is. To not know this answer I can only think of 3 possible reasons. 1.) You're illiterate. Nope that can't be the case because you had to read the book to know what was going on. 2.) You have jumped to a conclusion based on your neglect to carefully read the text. 3.) You are a willfully ignorant troll with a desire to be a pain in the tuchas.

Please allow me to refer you to the canon answer to the question of, "Does Splicers take place on Earth." That answer is NO.

Where do I find this information?
Splicers Core Rule Book
First Printing October 2004
Page 6, Second Column, 3rd paragraph, 2nd through 5th lines of text:
Wildlife, both native and colonial, had all but
vanished from the face of the planet, replaced by buildings,
highways and machines. Nature was represented by the cryozoos,
holding native, colonial and some alien DNA of animals

Page 15, Second Column, 4th paragraph, 5th and 6th lines of text:
1) Native life: both plants and animals; 2) colonial life
forms: alien specimens brought here by our ancestors

Native life (the biological forms indigenous/native/there first life of the planet where the game is set)
VS
Colonial life (Alien, Brought Here By Our Ancestors: those of the PC's).

You, the Player are the descendant of a COLONIST. Someone who traveled to a planet that was/is NOT Earth. This planet had its own biological Native Life forms. Your (human) ancestors brought ALIEN biologic LIFE forms with them when they came here.

Now where here (the game world) is or what here is called is completely up to you.

or the colonial wildlife is wildlife that was brought from other planets to earth

Good point, Shark Force

Shark_Force wrote:or the colonial wildlife is wildlife that was brought from other planets to earth

Flesh that out a bit. It actually makes more sense. Your colonist ancestors who left Earth found that other worlds, no matter how close to Earth they were, weren't really colonizeable so returned to Earth with flora and fauna samples, the colonists thought would enrich their home world. This would explain why so many of the creatures look like Earth creatures and very few appear alien. This would also answer why none of the other high tech colonies have come to rescue people from the machines.

Carmen wrote:There are a few books remaining that are horrded by the "Bookworms" an OCC that was cut due to space.

Therumancer wrote: In this book I'd release your "Bookworm" OCC since it seems to be a fairly large conceptual part of the game.

Will the Bookworm OCC be released in a Rifter or is it being saved for a future Splicers world book? Or has it already come out and I just don't know of it on the canonical Rifter content list?

therumancer isn't the guy who would know where something is (or isn't) being released, and carmen never said it would be released, merely that it was cut. it may yet be released (there's a lot of splicers material in various stages of completion either already in or on their way into the pipeline, but who knows when any of it will come out anyways? even if kevin gave a definite answer of when it was coming out, it would be subject to delays, and if you've been following PB for a while you've probably noticed that much as kevin would love to output 20+ books a year, the general reality is that the stuff he would like to put out in a certain time frame gets delayed on a regular basis. on the plus side, they also tend to have large portions of added material and are awesome when they finally do come out, but the simple fact is, the only reliable thing about PB's estimates of how much material will be released in a year is that they're unreliable)

The bookworms seem to go against the flavor of the setting as printed now with the remnants of the human resistence not knowing whether they are on earth or a colony world. That being said, I could see them maybe coming out in a future suppliment, but I'd be surprised if it was anything close to what Carmen originally intended.