Find that OCC!

[Killer Cyborg]

the OCC is from Manhunter I think... There are a couple of Really weird classes in that book -

If it's there, I can't find it.

[chaserone]

This is where he jumps up and says, "Haha! I made you all look!" and begins rolling around laughing at us.

[Colonel Wolfe]

What's the definition of "IS" ??

Webster Says it is:

Main Entry: is
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English; akin to Old High German ist is (from sIn to be), Latin est (from esse to be), Greek esti (from einai to be)
present third singular of BE
dialect present first & second singular ofBE
dialect present plural ofBE

the Definition of BE is:

Main Entry: be
Pronunciation: 'bE
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): past first & third singular was /'w&z, 'wäz/; second singular were /'w&r/; plural were past subjunctive were past part been /'bin, chiefly British 'bEn/; present part be·ing /'bE(-i)[ng]/; present first singular am /&m, 'am/; second singular are /'är, &r/; third singular is /'iz, &z/; plural are present subjunctive be
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English bEon; akin to Old High German bim am, Latin fui I have been, futurus about to be, fieri to become, be done, Greek phynai to be born, be by nature, phyein to produce
intransitive senses
1 a : to equal in meaning : have the same connotation as : SYMBOLIZE <God is love> <January is the first month> <let x be 10> b : to have identity with <the first person I met was my brother> c : to constitute the same class as d : to have a specified qualification or characterization <the leaves are green> e : to belong to the class of <the fish is a trout> -- used regularly in senses 1a through 1e as the copula of simple predication
2 a : to have an objective existence : have reality or actuality : LIVE <I think, therefore I am> <once upon a time there was a knight> b : to have, maintain, or occupy a place, situation, or position <the book is on the table> c : to remain unmolested, undisturbed, or uninterrupted -- used only in infinitive form <let him be> d : to take place : OCCUR <the concert was last night> e : to come or go <has already been and gone> <has never been to the circus> f archaic : BELONG, BEFALL
verbal auxiliary
1 -- used with the past participle of transitive verbs as a passive-voice auxiliary <the money was found> <the house is being built>
2 -- used as the auxiliary of the present participle in progressive tenses expressing continuous action <he is reading> <I have been sleeping>
3 -- used with the past participle of some intransitive verbs as an auxiliary forming archaic perfect tenses <Christ is risen from the dead -- 1 Cor 15:20 (Douay Version)>
4 -- used with the infinitive with to to express futurity, arrangement in advance, or obligation <I am to interview him today> <she was to become famous>

[Colonel Wolfe]

Thanks Colonel. Now, what's the definition of "rhetorical" ?

Webster.com:

Main Entry: rhe·tor·i·cal
Pronunciation: ri-'tor-i-k&l, -'tär-
Variant(s): also rhe·tor·ic /ri-'tor-ik, -'tär-/
Function: adjective
1 a : of, relating to, or concerned with rhetoric b : employed for rhetorical effect; especially : asked merely for effect with no answer expected <a rhetorical question>
2 a : given to rhetoric : GRANDILOQUENT b : VERBAL
- rhe·tor·i·cal·ly /-i-k(&-)lE/ adverb

[Killer Cyborg]

Okay, just to rule this one out...
is it an AbM Mechanoid?

[Colonel Wolfe]

Okay, just to rule this one out...
is it an AbM Mechanoid?

That might fit, but its not an OCC exactly.

[killhound]

the info junky was the direction i was going

[cornholioprime]

Okay, just to rule this one out...
is it an AbM Mechanoid?


Killer Cyborg wrote:
Okay, just to rule this one out...
is it an AbM Mechanoid?

No. Despite the fact that they are the far-flung descendents of the Atlanteans (and therefore, genetically human), it is NOT an OCC because OCC are those Professions/walks of life that you can choose to become. RCCs are those Characters that are 'born' that way.

Besides, you can't exactly walk up to your Average Mechie and ASK to become one (with the POSSIBLE exception of a 'mad scientist' AbM )

[chaserone]

okay K.C. your turn to come up with a quiz for us. Rifts related Im hoping.

[cornholioprime]

Is it the Anti-Monster O.C.C.?

I beleive that that OCC is actually a Man-At-Arms.........besides, doesn't their new, supernatural body reject Cybernetics?????

[cornholioprime]

HA!
the OCC is INFO JUNKIE out of Rifter 21
it has Cybernetics It has psionics but isn't psionic by itself,
and it has All of it's powewrs " downloadable" from the Supercomputer it's hooked into.

Meant for HU not Rifts.

Is it the Anti-Monster O.C.C.?

They have spells.

Okay, just to rule this one out...
is it an AbM Mechanoid?

Yay you win! They're in a Rifts Sourcebook so they count!

I respectfully disagree with Ty's choice, for the following reasons:

#1 ''Does not cast Magic Spells.'' I Agree.

#2. "Is not a Man-At-Arms" OCC. Technically (I say TECHNICALLY) correct; but it's really hard to say that a character bristling with weaponry is not a Man At Arms (yes we all accept that these are not "men") just because the phrase is not used with that character........

#3 "Has more than two Leser Psionic Powers, but is not considered a Master Psionic." Depends on which AbM you choose; some are Minor Psionics, while the Brains were said to be as powerful as Mind Melters...

#4 "Has more than 2 Cybernetic Implants of choice, but not enough to be considered a Partial or Full Conversion 'Borg."

WHAT??? What else would you call a Character whose natural form is an almost shapeless blob, implanted into a Life-Support/Armor/Combat Chassis System that he is integrated into (and can even die without, especially if it in the wrong atmosphere)?? Are we going to say oncew again that because the words ''Full Conversion Borg''aren't used, that this is not the reality of what a Mechanoid is (and this rebuttal is aside from the fact that the Author of the Mech Sourcebook constantly refers to the Mechies as cyborgs)????????
Full/Partial 'Borg argument aside, since when does a Mechie START OUT (and yes, I realize that an AbM may buy enhancements later) with Cybernetics OF CHOICE??? If you're a Brain, you have these enhancements at creation, if you're a Wasp or Digger, you have those enhancements at creation....Unless you have some extra supplement somewhere that I haven't read yet, I am not personally aware of any variations in Mechanoid design at Character Creation........

#5 "Has a unique attribute/ability/OCC Bonus." Can't find anything in th Sourcebook to go one way or the other. Just what is this Unique Ability that you speak of????

I beleive most strongly, however, that your choice of the term OCC is either wrongly chosen (perhaps you meant OCC -OR- RCC), or that you have chosen the OCC Label in error.

Unless I am mistaken, an OCC is a Profession/Life Path Choice/Occupation, and one that a Character may ENTER INTO (provided, of course, that (s)he has the correct OCC Attribute Requirements. An RCC is the opposite: Abilities that the Character has BECAUSE OF WHAT (S)HE IS. For example, I could go to Splynn, or The NGR , or Stormspire, and become a Maxi-Man, or Full Conversion 'Borg,' or Dragon Juicer (OCCs); I cannot buy -or train/study my way into becoming -a Dragon, Gargoyle, or Basilisk, all of whom have unique ablities inherent in their births/creation (RCCs).

....nor could I, for that matter, ''become'' or ''take up the job'' of a Mechanoid.....

[cornholioprime]

i could be wrong here but i dont think that the abm mech is a decendant of an atlantean, but of a race called the atenians or somethign way to close to atlantean.

It was more of a suggestion (the name of the first settlers to the Mech Homeworld was called the ''Atlanees;'' the Author also stated that the exact name/spelling of the First Settlers was lost over many centuries)

[Svartalf]

fully support Cornholio in his protest.

Mechanoids are nothing if not full conversion borgs, as they can't survive without their mechanical help, and so even for newly created clones.

[cornholioprime]

This is where he jumps up and says, "Haha! I made you all look!" and begins rolling around laughing at us.

I think that thought has crossed all of our minds. I hope not.

Besides, it will be bad enough when it is finally revealed.....and the guessing will be replaced with arguing over why one or more of the hints was a technicality that shouldn't count. What's the definition of "IS" ??

Sorry, Ty, but I don't think that my Rebuttals (most if not ALL of them) are mere 'Technicalities.'

If you can explain to me in the first place how the Mechanoid (an RCC in my opinion if there ever was one) is now an OCC (and it wouldn't hurt to tell me where my other counter arguments were wrong), I'll gladly accept them.

Don't get me wrong, I love Brain Teasers. I just just don't like them as much when I think that the Answer to the Riddle is the wrong one.........

P.S. If you want us to try and figure out the clues to either an OCC or RCC, I'm game. I just stuck to OCCs because that's what you were having us look for......................

P.P.S. My Ecto-Hunter (Mindwerks) was DAMN close.......except for the ''choice of Cybernetics'' Clue.............

[killhound]

the digital reaper rifter 2 ! check it out

[cornholioprime]

the digital reaper rifter 2 ! check it out

What you talkin' 'bout, Willis???????

[Rex]

That was pretty weak Tyc. I'm very disapointed in you.

[cornholioprime]

The Answer " Anti Monster" is an invalid suggestion.
1. ALL BORGS ARE MAN AT ARMS OCC
2. Anti Monster is a Borg
3. You can only get the Anti monster transformation in the South americas, in particular, colombia and Silver River Republics


In SHORT, .. TYCIOL YOU ARE FUBAR

Yo Angryjack, his answer was the AbM Mechanoid. Someone else suggested the Anti-Monster.....however, Ty's Answer (AbM Mechie) is STILL wrong for the various reasons that I have laid out in a previous Rebuttal to his Post........................................

[cornholioprime]

okay K.C. your turn to come up with a quiz for us. Rifts related Im hoping.

Yo K.C., even though Ty gave us what most of believe is an incorrect answer, you guessed his answer nonetheless.

Do you want to make the next Riddle up, or have one of us take a crack at it (and please, specify if you want us to look for an OCC, RCC, or both, or even something else...)?????

[killhound]

it fits the bill better than the anti monster or any mechnoid

[killhound]

the fact that ty tels us to go find an OCC that really doesn't exist is kind of dissapointing. he should make certin that his answers fit the the question. his answer is still a borg

[cornholioprime]

two things

1. with the exception of the whole rcc vs occ thing i suport Ty on this. He was going by the book not by opinion. If the book does not state the AbM mech is a FCB than it is not an FCB. Its a mechanical symbyote if anything. yes you cna argue over technacalitys but Ty only put what was stated in the book for clarity not for confusion. i think

2. go a head and call shenanigans (whats your favorite resaturant?) but dont get to uptight about it, it a game about a game.

Way to go, Atlas. This would be like saying that Argent Goodson isn't a robot just because ARCHIE-3 doesn't CALL him one. If you have a definition, anything else that fits the Definition also carries the label (and for those of you were wondering, Argent Goodson IS a Robot -in his case, a Sub-Class of Robot called an Android). Please also remember, Atlas, that the Author himself CONSTANTLY refers to these creatures as Cyborgs...........

[Colonel Wolfe]

I think we should start a fun quiz where one of us gives clues to an OCC, and whoever finds it first posts the next one. Any Rifts book is up for grabs. So, I'll begin...

1. Does not possess any magic spells.
2. Is not a man at arms class.
3. Has more than two lesser psionic powers, but is not considered a Master Psionic RCC.
4. Starts with more than two cybernetic implants of choice, but doesn't have enough to be considered a Partial or Full conversion Cyborg.
5. Has a unique OCC ability or attribute/combat bonus.

Well, the AMb MEchanoids:

1) dont possess any magical spells
2) dont count as a Man-at-arms class.... but kinda feel like an RCC
3) most or all mechinoids fit this qualifier.
4) the Implants of "Choice" and not enought oe be considred a partial or Full conversion borg thing Dosent Quite Fit:
a: I Thought the Mechinoid systems were pertty standerd.
b: they are typically 90% steal, 10% flesh ball Which could be "Considred" a Full conversion borg.
5: they have very specific abilities and bonuses

4/5 fits the Bill, but I don;t feel ita an OCC. you cant be a Oger-Mechinoid or a Elven-Mechinoid... Mechinoids feel alot like a RCC, even if not Specifically said to be one.

[killhound]

if you want go by that clasification i am also corect and more so because the digital reaper has psionics and some cybernetics and no magic and although it doesnt state it in the description is a man at arms

[chaserone]

Kewl, now that we got that out of the way, lets hear K.C.'s quiz. I wanna see something new to try and figure out.

[chaserone]

Yep, Cool... now how bout that new quiz?

[RoadWarriorFWaNK]

1. Humans only.
2. North American continent.
3. Non-Coalition States OCC.
4. Not subtle. Oh so very not subtle.
5. Gender? Irrelevant.

that could be anything. but i'm going to say Glitter Boy.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Possibly one of the Indian OCC's in Spirit west.

-Gunslinger
-Gunfighter
-almost any Juicer from book 10, especially Titan and Mega

I thought they had NPC's of other races for the gunfighter/slinger

the Titan juicer is know is avalible to non-humans b/c they mention Dwarven Titan Juicers (about 6' tall at full height).

[cornholioprime]

i dont care about wounded egos now im just defending my point.

first of all when i say by definition i ment that becuase the book does not label them as FCBs in thier Occ/rcc outline than for all intensive purposes they are not. I dont give a **** about anyones opinion otherwise, if the book doesnt state it, for the true game purposes and for this little game than it just not true. The reason i defended Ty on this is because in order to get a "correct" answer it would require the guesser to confirm the criteria agaisnt what is stated in the book, not thier opinion. Think about what if Ty had said "are a FCB" than there woudl be a similar uproar because "the book doesnt call them a FCB! whaa!" Look, I am not argueing that they are not FCB, although i could and may if pressed, What i am argueing is for fairness and clarity Ty had to state it the way he did. The Flying TItan power armor says its a "class whatever flying whatever" but i think its a hovering crap pile, but if i was trying to get people to guess it i would put what the book says and not hovering crap pile.

ok ive blown up a little. i shouldnt have ranted like that over a silly little game. but i had being misinterperted( dispite my horible spelling and typing)!

Y'all heard the man (woman??). If you get in a fight with a blood-sucking fiend that is harmed by Sunlight, Running Water, and gets burned when you touch your Cross to it, but it not specifically called a Vampire, then I gues you're not fighting a Vamp. You're....fighting....uh....a Super SAMAS!!!! Yeah, that's it!!!!!
Now come on. If one has a working definition of a creature, then ANY creature, object, etc., that FITS the Definition gets the NAME.

And remember, boys and girls, by [[Atlas6shot]]'s definition, if it LOOKS like a Duck, and WALKS like a Duck, and QUACKS like a Duck, but you don't use the Name ''duck,'' then it must be................

............Joseph Prosek, or somethin'..........................

[Colonel Wolfe]

Technically(and extreamly big mess) a FCB can get out of his "Suit"... but in a few moments the Brain and Tounge will stop Floping around....

Pertty Sure not Many Mechinods can Live w/o the Cyber-bionoic Bodies they have, but i could be Mistaken.

[chaserone]

alrighty then, new quiz.

[Colonel Wolfe]

that's funny, cause I seem to remember reading a little note in the stats for each and every mechanoid about how they can only live for five minutes outside of their suits... on Rifts Earth... because the atmosphere is toxic to them... not because they just can't survive out of their suits...

again, these notes were VERY specific about it being just Earth's atmosphere...

Well, Since its VERY specific about the Earth Atmosphere, They could Easily Live on the Surface f the sun w/o a Suit, or in the Vacume of Space.
B/c it never Said They Cant Exist out side in Those conditions.

What i felt that was more to Imply the Mechinoids had Special Envirmental Areas in there Ships they coudl live in. Where as teh Native Enviroment they came form killed them, the Asmosphere they created on there Ships would sustain them outside the Metal Bodies. Technically a FCB could Live outside his Bionice too, if he was Placed in a Specially Designed test tube that keeps him alive out Side his new body.

as for Psionice being Inhibited by Cybernetics/bionice aren't there Several Exceptions to This Rule? IIRC the Mindwerks Borgs kept Psionics.

.... but once Agian I could be Mistaken.

[Colonel Wolfe]

1. Humans only.
2. North American continent.
3. Non-Coalition States OCC.
4. Not subtle. Oh so very not subtle.
5. Gender? Irrelevant.

It's a Mechinoid,

1) Human (Kinda)
2) yep, at Archies complex
3) not in the CS
4) not very Subtle
5) how do you tell the sex on a Ball fo Flesh?

[Killer Cyborg]

there are a ton of matching OCCs in RIFTS MANHUNTER, As well.

No, there aren't.
I checked.
Look again, and if you think you're right, name the OCCs.

[Killer Cyborg]

HA!
the OCC is INFO JUNKIE out of Rifter 21
it has Cybernetics It has psionics but isn't psionic by itself,
and it has All of it's powewrs " downloadable" from the Supercomputer it's hooked into.

Meant for HU not Rifts.

Is it the Anti-Monster O.C.C.?

They have spells.

Okay, just to rule this one out...
is it an AbM Mechanoid?

Yay you win! They're in a Rifts Sourcebook so they count!

I respectfully disagree with Ty's choice, for the following reasons:

#1 ''Does not cast Magic Spells.'' I Agree.

#2. "Is not a Man-At-Arms" OCC. Technically (I say TECHNICALLY) correct; but it's really hard to say that a character bristling with weaponry is not a Man At Arms (yes we all accept that these are not "men") just because the phrase is not used with that character........

#3 "Has more than two Leser Psionic Powers, but is not considered a Master Psionic." Depends on which AbM you choose; some are Minor Psionics, while the Brains were said to be as powerful as Mind Melters...

#4 "Has more than 2 Cybernetic Implants of choice, but not enough to be considered a Partial or Full Conversion 'Borg."

WHAT??? What else would you call a Character whose natural form is an almost shapeless blob, implanted into a Life-Support/Armor/Combat Chassis System that he is integrated into (and can even die without, especially if it in the wrong atmosphere)?? Are we going to say oncew again that because the words ''Full Conversion Borg''aren't used, that this is not the reality of what a Mechanoid is (and this rebuttal is aside from the fact that the Author of the Mech Sourcebook constantly refers to the Mechies as cyborgs)????????
Full/Partial 'Borg argument aside, since when does a Mechie START OUT (and yes, I realize that an AbM may buy enhancements later) with Cybernetics OF CHOICE??? If you're a Brain, you have these enhancements at creation, if you're a Wasp or Digger, you have those enhancements at creation....Unless you have some extra supplement somewhere that I haven't read yet, I am not personally aware of any variations in Mechanoid design at Character Creation........

#5 "Has a unique attribute/ability/OCC Bonus." Can't find anything in th Sourcebook to go one way or the other. Just what is this Unique Ability that you speak of????

I beleive most strongly, however, that your choice of the term OCC is either wrongly chosen (perhaps you meant OCC -OR- RCC), or that you have chosen the OCC Label in error.

Unless I am mistaken, an OCC is a Profession/Life Path Choice/Occupation, and one that a Character may ENTER INTO (provided, of course, that (s)he has the correct OCC Attribute Requirements. An RCC is the opposite: Abilities that the Character has BECAUSE OF WHAT (S)HE IS. For example, I could go to Splynn, or The NGR , or Stormspire, and become a Maxi-Man, or Full Conversion 'Borg,' or Dragon Juicer (OCCs); I cannot buy -or train/study my way into becoming -a Dragon, Gargoyle, or Basilisk, all of whom have unique ablities inherent in their births/creation (RCCs).

....nor could I, for that matter, ''become'' or ''take up the job'' of a Mechanoid.....

Okay, I've been playing Morrowind lately so I haven't gotten back to check this until now.
Sorry, everybody.

In any case, as far as the qualifications of AbM Mechanoids for being the answer:
1. Yup. No spells. Lucky for us.
2. Not all Mechanoids are heavily armed OCCs, and none of them are technically Man at Arms OCCs.
3. Good enough.
4. They're certainly "cyborgs", but not "Borgs". They are cybernetically linked to their environmental power armor, but they still retain their own physical bodies. Since they can live without their armor (in special environments), they aren't Full or Partial Conversion Borgs.
5. Unique Abilites: Their cybernetic don't affect their psionic powers, and they can seemingly use their psionics through their power armor.
6. OCC v. RCC:
Mechanoids are an RCC. They may be human (Atlantean) decendants, but so are psi-stalkers and they're considered an RCC. Same with Mind Melters. A mutant strain that is different enough from the mainstream is considered to be an RCC in Rifts.
But that didn't keep me from guessing it.

Anyway, I guess I won.
I'll think up a new OCC and post on it.

[grandmaster z0b]

I'll pick an easier (and less arguable one) to get things rolling.

Find a rifts RCC that has the ability to double in size.

Is it a giant RCC, Cyclops? Titan?

Someone mentioned England, is it the Cernun mystic or something?

[Dr. Doom III]

I'll pick an easier (and less arguable one) to get things rolling.

Find a rifts RCC that has the ability to double in size.

Holy Terror.

[Killer Cyborg]

Okay, I got one.

1. It's a Man at Arms OCC (not an RCC).
2. It has some cybernetics, but not enough to make it a Partial or Full Conversion Borg
3. It is impervious to psionic attacks
4. It has Psionics.
5. It has heightened reflexes, combat bonuses, and SDC bonuses.

[Mudang]

Okay, I got one.

1. It's a Man at Arms OCC (not an RCC).
2. It has some cybernetics, but not enough to make it a Partial or Full Conversion Borg
3. It is impervious to psionic attacks
4. It has Psionics.
5. It has heightened reflexes, combat bonuses, and SDC bonuses.

I'm gonna have to guess Delphi Juicer.

[Mudang]

Nega-Psychic? Or is that not a MaA?

No, the nega psychic doesn't have any cybernetics at all.

[chaserone]

I was going to say Ultra Crazy but that isnt it.

[chaserone]

Well, unless its in manhunter, I dont think that it exists. Ive checked all of the worldbooks and all of the dimension books.

[cornholioprime]

I'll pick an easier (and less arguable one) to get things rolling.

Find a rifts RCC that has the ability to double in size.

Is it a giant RCC, Cyclops? Titan?

Someone mentioned England, is it the Cernun mystic or something?

On Ty's behalf I will argue in advance AGAINST the Promethean: because the 1st and 2nd Stagers (2nd Stager is at least double the size of the 1st Stager) are listed as separate RCCs.................The actual RCC is a creature that has THREE forms, one of which is twice the size of its natural form. It's in the same book as the Azverkan. I'm rummaging through my collection now..................Found it. It's in Mindwerks, and called the Lycanmorph...................both of its alternate forms are at least twice the size of its humanoid form.................

[Killer Cyborg]

Good guesses, but nobody has gotten it yet.

Hint: It is NOT from Manhunter, although I considered using something from there.

[cornholioprime]

I'll pick an easier (and less arguable one) to get things rolling.

Find a rifts RCC that has the ability to double in size.

Holy Terror.

Yes. I would have also accepted (after some thought) a space mutant with the Growth ability via MiO.

Yo Ty, is the RCC the Lycanmoprh?? Or is that RCC one that fits your clues, but not the answer that you are looking for??????

[chaserone]

Its not from a Rifter, is it? I dont have all of them either. I checked the entire list of Man at Arms OCCs from the GM's Guide and none of them are impervious to psionics.

[Killer Cyborg]

Its not from a Rifter, is it? I dont have all of them either. I checked the entire list of Man at Arms OCCs from the GM's Guide and none of them are impervious to psionics.

Perhaps its post GMG?

It's not from a Rifter.
It's from before the GMG, but I don't believe that the GMG listed it.

[Guest]

Impervious to Physical Psionic Attacks (mind bolt/pyrokinesis) or All Psionic Attacks (mind wipe/bio manipulation)

[Killer Cyborg]

Impervious to Physical Psionic Attacks (mind bolt/pyrokinesis) or All Psionic Attacks (mind wipe/bio manipulation)

"... is impervious to psionic mental attacks (including empathy telepathy, and even bio-manipulation), mind altering drugs, and magic illusions."

[Mudang]

Psynetic crazy?