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You may also want to consider there are thoes people who spend their entire lives in space. The pirate may be looking to resupply a ship or colony. Imaging a pirate cripling your ship and stealing your reacor core to power another ship, space station or colony.

Make it with a big star wars like theme. Watch them all in a row make notes give them some spice. Our group plays in star wars campaign right now. The main thing i would like is way cooler looking space ships we dislike most of phase worlds ships. Phase world needs more equipment and vehicles.

But... then it would be Star Wars, and not Phase World.

There is a difference I can tell you. Really. I just can't put it into words...

Braden, GMPhD wrote:But... then it would be Star Wars, and not Phase World.

There is a difference I can tell you. Really. I just can't put it into words...

Exactly. Each space opera should be some what unique. Look at B5. Great set of ships. Each race had a nice look and feel that after only a few seasons I could identify with. I would like something like this for PW. I still think most of the ships are pretty cool anyway.

Carl

I agree with you Carl and Braden. And as Carl said Space Opera can be very cool! I have fun designing new ships for Phase World. At this time I've got at least 50 to 100 still to work on and I think I've designed somewere around 75 ships so far. I've even got my own mercenary fleet which is set in Phase world. They are called the "Spectral Winds".

Braden, GMPhD wrote:But... then it would be Star Wars, and not Phase World.

There is a difference I can tell you. Really. I just can't put it into words...

The Federation(CCW) isn't a Marxist Communist Soceity, the Romulans(TGE) are controled by a Lovecraftian Horror from Beyond, no one has relaiable transport technology, and they can actually make the trip from one end of a galaxy to another withing their own lifetimes?

My phase world campaign is not and never will be associated to ST. I'm sorry, Rick Berman wrecked it totally for me. So my 3Gs are space opera, but closer to standard with some little addiations of my own.

My PW campaings(if its not the main one with a set background fo years of playing and desigin and writing) tend to be a bunch of ***hats running amok. "Whats that? He blew off my leg? thats okay I'll just go and get a cybernetic one or a bio-synthesis one, we can hit up that planet we holed up on during last weeks session.....no wait we blew up that guys hospital for charging us triple. Well I'm sure theres another planet that we can mooch off of for a bit, I mean its only slightly smaller then the milky way and there are 300 billion stars in it, what are the chances of running into someone that knows we're wanted criminals?"

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Braden, GMPhD wrote:But... then it would be Star Wars, and not Phase World.

There is a difference I can tell you. Really. I just can't put it into words...

The Federation(CCW) isn't a Marxist Communist Soceity, the Romulans(TGE) are controled by a Lovecraftian Horror from Beyond, no one has relaiable transport technology, and they can actually make the trip from one end of a galaxy to another withing their own lifetimes?

he said Star wars, not star trek...
nobody ever said Phaseworld was remotely star trek.

Right.

- The CCW is most definatly NOT the United Federation of Planets.

- The Wulfen are definately NOT the Klingons with fur and tails.

- Phase World is definately NOT Rigel 7.

- The Golgan are definately NOT a redressed Cardassian Union.

Everything smacks of everything else. Learn to live with it.

Gomen_Nagai wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Braden, GMPhD wrote:But... then it would be Star Wars, and not Phase World.

There is a difference I can tell you. Really. I just can't put it into words...

The Federation(CCW) isn't a Marxist Communist Soceity, the Romulans(TGE) are controled by a Lovecraftian Horror from Beyond, no one has relaiable transport technology, and they can actually make the trip from one end of a galaxy to another withing their own lifetimes?

he said Star wars, not star trek...
nobody ever said Phaseworld was remotely star trek.

Bah, keep getting 'em mixed up.

Anyway, the differences there...

There is no one truely dominant empire for there to be rebels aginst.

No one has planet-destroying technology

There are three major players

Humans are not the dominate race

and that's just right off the top

Nekira Sudacne wrote:Awsome!!!

My Thoughts:

1. Space Pirates should be your #1 priority. I've always felt them sorely lacking in phase world considering the impact they have. a slightly larger varaity of ships (don't go overboard on any equipment now), some more non-leathal trapping meathods (for bounty hunters), and general tips on how to they manage to sneak past patrols and such would be nice.

2. Urban Combat ideas. this is for purely selfish reasons. I prefer my games to take place in Urban settings

more fleshed out Dominators would be nice...right now their ships have the "statless unkillable" problem.

The rest I personally think should be included, in any order.

What I personally would really like to see is...

1. some Important independant worlds. Planets or at most a small group of planets within a relativly small star cluster who choose to remain unaligned with any of the big 3 (TGE, CCW, and UWW), but who have some kind of technological or magical or even psychic or chi edge that gives them enough military might to make a hostile takeover more trouble than it's worth for any of hte big 3. They should also have some important peice of technology or such they are masters at and are highly valuble.

Obviously Phase World itself is the prime exsample of what i'm talking about, but nothing quite on _that_ level. I just think there should be a few races who, for whatever reason, have enough power to keep to themselves and something valuble enough to keep a good number of people flocking there for trade. it adds to the setting and gives more options.

also: more races. and though it might sound odd, more races with strange powers. I don't really care if they're pink skinned humans, humanoid, anthrophormic animals or 100% bizzarely alien. I would just like some new, really unique races. yea yea, Phase World has a ton of them already, but so? just a few would be nice.

It might sound strange, but I would really like more information on how the war between Naruni and Hagtrial Combine is doing.

and though it might sound strange, but I just thought of a request I'd like to hear very much.

Shipyards. I want more information on shipyards. Who builds these fleets, what are they like? Maybe a huge ship building conglomorate? Maybe millions of independants?

How are the usual Ship weapons built? the main book makes them seem like they're all mostly made by the same brand, or at least a commonly availible generic brand.

I don't know who makes ships in Phase World, and I would like to know.

I pretty much agree wtih Nekira... Especially if you combine the pirates and the shipyards. Also a rundown of more detailed docking procedures. How are ships regestered, who checks the regestrations, and how do pirates get access to non pirate frendly ports.

devillin wrote:Any idea when this will be coming out? Also, what method did you go with for ship construction? The Mercenaries method of building an organization, or something based off of Rifts Manhunter's?

My personal deadline for submission of the manuscript is three weeks from this past Friday (don't think I'll hit it, but it will be close). After that, it's all in Palladium's hands.

As for a system... I went with option #3, the well thought out essay. By exhaustively comparing one ship to another, I've come up with some general guidelines for making your own ships with no hard ro fast rules. As an example:
____________________________________

Building Frigates and Destroyers

Significantly larger than space fighters and small space craft, yet smaller than cruisers, are Frigates. In Phase World terms, a frigate will have a mass between 5000 and 10,000 tons. They are generally at least 200 feet long, but no longer than 600 feet.

A frigate designed exclusively for combat is called a “destroyer”, and will have minimal room for carrying cargo: no more than 1000 tons in internal storage bays. Destroyers are built with minimal creature comforts for the crew, since they are almost never expected to go on long-range or long-term missions. They tend to remain in the star system in which they were built, or in a small patrol area. Destroyers could, in theory, mount additional cargo in external cans, but they would only get in the way of any point defense turrets. Destroyers may mount up to 14 point defense emplacements of any kind; railguns, lasers, or particle beams. It may also have no more than four weapons selected from the Medium-class of spaceship weapons. Note that a cruise missile launcher may be taken as a medium weapon slot, even though the missile is a heavy weapon.

Cargo Frigates, like those used by the Trade Federations and Mercantilus Unions, sacrifice firepower for carrying capacity. They may only mount two Medium-class weapons systems, and no more than eight point defense emplacements. If a frigate is built with internal cargo bays, it can carry up to 4000 tons. However, by mounting massive external cans onto its chassis, a frigate can carry nearly eight times as much cargo, or 30,000 tons! The cans prevent the ship form entering any kind of atmosphere, though, as they will fall off and burn up. A frigate with internal bays may come and go from a planetary surface with no problems.

Both configurations of ship will require a crew numbering between sixty and one hundred men. The CAF Hunter-class somehow manages to operate with only twenty-four people, but this is probably due to Wulfen superior multi-tasking abilities.
______________________________________

The cargo stats are based on real life carrying capacity for ships of similar size. the weapon limits are based on the existing published ships. Each classification of ship size (space fighter, small space craft, frigates, cruiser, and flagship) is then followed by a chart listing every canon ship to date (including mine... had to follow my own rules, don't yas know!): its MDC, force fields, physical dimensions, and damage on its primary weapon system.

Making an in-depth system was way too much work, and gaming should be about the gaming, not the math.

Wow 60 to a 100 men for a frigate? That seems an aweful lot for phase world tech levels, as IMO most of the systems would be automated.

You would need about half this number in my estimate
-Captian/pilot
-Cocaptain/Copilot
-3 coms/navigation officers (working 3, 8 hour shifts)
-3 sensor/tactical officers (working 3, 8 hour shifts)
-3 senior engineers (working 3, 8 hour shifts)
-6 junior engineers (working 3, 8 hour shifts to assist the senior engineers)
-2 Doctors (working 12 hour shifts)
-3 nurses (working 8 hour shifts to assist the doctors)
-3 cooks (working 3, 8 hour shifts for round the clock meals)
-15 gunners/general maintainence crew (working 3, 8 hour shifts for round the clock coverage with the ability to rouse the other 10 off duty crew in momoents should they be needed)

Thats 40 by my count and this is likely more redundency than you need you can probably get by with only:
1 captain
1 cocaptain
2 coms/nav and
2 sensors/tactical officers,
1 doctor and
2 nurses,
2 senior engineers and
4 junior engineers
2 cooks
12 gunners/general maintainence crew

Total of 30.

If you had some intellegent bots to fill in where able (cooks, nurses, junior engineers, general maintainence) you would be able to drop this even farther. Maybe down so far as only a 10 person skeleton crew.

Just my 2 cents.

These numbers are being taken from existing cannon, using a process of painstaking comparison that has taken me three days. In fact, I doubt anyone has ever undergone so anal an undertakng for the sake of continuity.... and I have to admit, this morining, as I work on comparing space fighters, that I am wondering why the hell I am putting in so much effort, and not just pulling numbers out of my ass.

I guess because I care.

yes, 60 -100 men. If you have the money, you may replace any of them wth droids.

Braden, GMPhD wrote:These numbers are being taken from existing cannon,

This doesn't mean that they make any sense... it only means they are consistant with what is there already.

using a process of painstaking comparison that has taken me three days. In fact, I doubt anyone has ever undergone so anal an undertakng for the sake of continuity....

Continuity is a good thing...it even better when what is consistant also makes sense

and I have to admit, this morining, as I work on comparing space fighters, that I am wondering why the hell I am putting in so much effort, and not just pulling numbers out of my ass.

I'd prefer ass-pulled numbers that make sense than consistant ones that don't

I guess because I care.

No doubt.

yes, 60 -100 men. If you have the money, you may replace any of them wth droids.

If you have a few minutes to kill give us a rundown of how these are alocated like in my post... Are there necessary positions that I didn't fill in my roster accounting for this inflated crew number?

At least things will be consistantly broken... and that's a kind of continuity.

Otherwise it would be called Phase World Sourcebook 2: Attack of the Ret-con.

Braden, GMPhD wrote: I doubt anyone has ever undergone so anal an undertakng for the sake of continuity

You're wrong.

~ Josh

Et tu, Josh?

Braden, GMPhD wrote:Et tu, Josh?

Et me, Branden, et me.

Plus Slag too, I can't speak for the other Freelancers though (I'm pretty sure they are sticklers for continuity), just myself and my co-author.

~ Josh

I started making a spread sheet in excel of the various stats on ships so I could compare them easier.

Carl

Continuity is very important-Look at Rifts China and Japan

Braden, GMPhD wrote:yes, 60 -100 men. If you have the money, you may replace any of them wth droids.

hmm...
commander, navigator, helmsman, communications officer, tactical officer. head engineer plus 5 assistants. galley staff (2-3 people), cargo officers (2-3 people)

per shift. 3 shifts of 8 hours each, one on, two off.

military vessels would have multiple tactical officers on shift, electronic warfare officers, multiple communications officers, security guards, additional engineers, flight crew....

in a combat situation anyone not 'on shift' is assigned to damage control, and would be on call to replace onshift crew should injury or casualties warrant.

keep in mind that 60 to 100 crew for such a ship is smaller than an equivelent ocean going craft.

actually, AI would be a required, and of the jobs i listed, all of them are more hands on, and not easily or cheaply replaced with AI. (i wouldn't want an AI captain anway.)


how about Brain-Brawn teams like in McCaffrey's Ship universe? the ship is operated as a body by parapalegic people connected to ship systems via direct nueral interface. full life support and everything.

they're teamed up with 'brawns', who are the human face to the team. while the ships are automated with 'servo's', maintenece robots, the Brawn is the only member able to range beyond the ship and take care of things there.

no, the use of highly intellegent, but otherwise disabled, people as organic self aware supercomputers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ship_Who_Sang

a cyborg that has a ship, a city, or a network of drones as it's body.

a close canon example would be the machine person brain of the runner Stick in your eye from the main phase world book. just imagine a biological version instead of the machine person.

The Human Alliance works diligently to keep AI systems somewhat "stupid" and definately un-self-aware. So CCW ship computers are smart, but not smart enough to run the ship, or take the place of people.

You'll see why later, I hope...


The TGE doesn't need to build advanced AIs because they have the Machine Men to do all the heavy computing. The Golgan can't build self aware computers at all. But the Altess have millons of droids a la Star Wars...

In one of my more fun games I had the PCs run into a planet that had a sentient AI take over and destroy its makers, like in Terminator, so now its a plaent with a race of robots.

That is an interesting Race you're talking about Gadrin! Just out of curiousity I have to ask this question. Do any of the Holographic crew have a H's on their foreheads?

Inverse wrote:I noticed that alot of people were looking for rules for ship creation.
This is something that I had to deal with and I put some work into it a while ago.

I have it all detailed out in an excel spreadsheet is there a way to post something like that on the forums? It would be a major pain to list out all the formulas in a standard post.
At the very least if anyone is interested just let me know and I will make with the email.

While a posting would be cool, I could do with taking a look at your spreadsheet as well.

Inverse wrote:Hmm... anyone have any tips on posting info in a table format? I am trying to post my whole rulesset (for ship building) but it keeps nixing my formatting.

You might try posting it inside of either quote or code marks. They might preserve the formatting. Otherwise, just post it to a webpage. Or send it to someone who can host it for you real quick.

devillin wrote:

Inverse wrote:Hmm... anyone have any tips on posting info in a table format? I am trying to post my whole rulesset (for ship building) but it keeps nixing my formatting.

You might try posting it inside of either quote or code marks. They might preserve the formatting. Otherwise, just post it to a webpage. Or send it to someone who can host it for you real quick.

stick to [code] tags, quotes will just remove the formatting.

yep

Yes, thank you!

July 26th, 10:32 pm.

The manuscript is done.

Thank you all for your input.

Braden, GMPhD wrote:July 26th, 10:32 pm.

The manuscript is done.

Thank you all for your input.

Congrats man.

Now to start gathering notes for Thundercloud Galaxy...

after I spend some "quality time" with my wife, that is.

Braden, GMPhD wrote:Now to start gathering notes for Thundercloud Galaxy...

after I spend some "quality time" with my wife, that is.

Playtesting, eh?

I'd playtest it for you too! But really Good Luck Braden!

Well, I always saw the typical runner ship as being an old, junker held together with slightly more than spit, bailing wire and promethian fingernail clippings. Which accounts for why they are relatively cheap.
Forget a formula, give us base prices.
A transport hull at x tonnage costs Y million, etc and go from there for the various systems.
Then add in the modifiers, like it's old, built by promethians, etc. to modify the price.
The whole point system concept breaks when applied to an item a PC will consider purchasing.
Whole nother matter when it's something they start with.

Then, just "update" the previously listed prices for the official material, thus bringing them into line.

Aside from weapons, almost everything should be relatively cheap, no more 150 million cr. hand-scanners that do about as much as a 22k (earth cr) cyber-hand scanner.

Also, if you converted a copy of every novel ever written to text, it might be a TB. So if you have upgrades for the scanners, remember just how huge a TB really is.

Also, please, for the love of all that is holy (or unholy as you deem more important) make sure your material is internally consistent and mostly consistent with established material, unless it is a specific update. (100 random cargos does not jive with the "standard" cargo container sizes or weight limts, which is sad, cause they are in the same freakin book and presumably approved by the same editor)

Sounds like an interesting idea, Nikoli!

The funny thing is, she has said she would join my gaming group if she could. She wants to play a dolphin, becasue she has this thing for ...

Oh, you mean roleplaying as in getting freaky....


Gottcha.

:::Looking the opther way!:::

I don't really mind. Role Playing does get up to those points with an older group. And then you speak and role play a little more carefully when you have younger players. But I think if they don't accept it, you could always offer it to those who are interested in it. I know I am!

Yes we are on the same page.

Aramanthus wrote:I don't really mind. Role Playing does get up to those points with an older group. And then you speak and role play a little more carefully when you have younger players. But I think if they don't accept it, you could always offer it to those who are interested in it. I know I am!

JUst BEFORE you open up on their characters with ungodly amounts of firepower and blow them to vapor?

No, wait, that's only if they misbehave....

You got that right!