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"Congratulations! Your star has been selected as a test case for galactic garbage disposal! We'll just throw stuff at your star to see what makes it belch gamma rays, flare up, or explode! It's quite an honor, and plus we 'll throw in free sun block for everybody on your planet!"

ROFLMAO!!! I did say uninhabited. It's not like I want to put a hyperspace byway thru someone's home system

Aramanthus wrote:ROFLMAO!!! I did say uninhabited. It's not like I want to put a hyperspace byway thru someone's home system

"Dang! This used to be such a sleepy two-slug colony until they put in that warp-gate through here, now we got all sorts of undersireables comin' through with talk of 'development' and 'resorts'..."

Just be glad those poor slugs aren't located in a colony with a salt bed just under the surface dirt.

"Okay, by curious coincidence we had a dry dust-salt gusher from a well digging.....paralyzed the whole town...."

ROFLMAO!!! I knew you were going to do that! I just knew it!

Slugfest 2007----The Salt Talks....

Salt Arms Reduction Talks!

For peer review...from DarkMaxx's image files...

*WZ-XLF-087 Atom Super Compact Fighter
The WZ-Atom was an effort to produce an inexpensive ultra-light aerospace fighter that could be easily operated, stowed in the limited space aboard larger craft and stations, and yet still be able to hold its own against heavier opponents. Though the WZ-LF-103 Solace had proven itself an effective escort fighter, its performance in atmosphere was wanting, and several of WZ’s constituent companies felt they could do better. They proved it with the prototype Atom.
The Atom was developed from a little-known design, the short-lived Jinesan Aerospace Microstar TAV, produced in limited numbers by a Rim-state private aerospace firm. Though the Microstar was an excellent design, light, agile, and fast for a private aerospace jet and light security interceptor, it failed to be produced in any quantity, owing to criminal mismanagement of Jinesan Aerospace, which left its talented design team left holding the bag for several hundred million credits of debt and another few million in legal costs, and their facilities being auctioned off. Fortunately, WZTechYards bought Jinesan Aerospace lock, stock, barrel, and cheap, and took the original design staff on as well. After sitting down with several other design teams from similarly rescued firms, comparing notes and exchanging ideas, they quickly modified the Microstar into an effective fighter, the Atom.
The Atom is also noteworthy for being the first WZ design to use a new construction material/technique, ‘Starskin’, a combination stealthing and defensive technoloy.
Because of its small size, the Atom can carry only light armament. Two light pulse lasers do modest damage. A belly-mount ordnance pod can be added, but the added mass throws off the ship’s balance somewhat, trading agility for extra firepower. Typically, Atom pilots will carry weapons pods outbound on a mission, firing the pod-weapons for maximum damage during the initial stages of an engagement, then ejecting the pod and dogfighting or escaping in unburdened ‘light’ state(sometimes referred to ‘free state’, ‘unbound’. or ‘uncoupled’, and sometimes as ‘ionic’).
The Atom hasn’t done nearly as well in sales as the WZ ‘Angel’, but the ship’s advanced technology, small size, and high maneuverability have earned the ship a devout following among corporate security forces and paramilitary units specializing in regional, high-intensity, combat. The bounty-hunter/assassin Rylan Lazz made the Atom rather infamous for carrying one aboard his tracer-ship _Guilty Conscience_. He also used the fighter’s small size, agility, and energy-resistant armor to good effect to fly down the close quarters of Baremport’s narrow city-canyons, fly through the energy-weapon defense web surrounding the residence of hated colony-breaker-cum-land-developer Baron Huez, and slay him in his own bedroom with the fighter’s guns.
Type:WZ-XLF-087 Atom
Class: Super Compact Fighter
Crew: 1
MDC/Armor by Location:
Main Body 300
Cockpit 150
Lasers(2) 80 each
Forcefield 600
Height: 6 ft (2 m)
Width: 21 ft (7 m)
Length: 18 ft (2 m)
Weight: 3.6 tons
Cargo:Small space behind crew seating for a survival pack.
Powerplant:Advanced Lucerin-Fuelled Nuclear Fusion w/ 50 year energy life.
Speed:
(Atmosphere) Hover to Mach 7, transatmospheric.
(Sublight) Mach 17
(Kitsune Values:20% of light speed. Accelerate/Decelerate at 1.7% of light speed per melee)
(FTL) The Atom is not equipped for FTL
(Underwater) The Atom is not designed for underwater operations.
Bonuses: +5 to Dodge
Market Cost: million credits
Systems of Note:
Standard Starfighter Systems, plus;

*Syzite-Crystal composite armor---First pioneered on the tiny Atom Light Fighter, this advanced armor comes in the form of overlapping flat crystalline ‘cells’ bonded together by fiber-conduits that help transfer and disperse energy from weapons attacks, reducing the damage. This effectively works to render the ship’s hull resistant to ENERGY weapons, such as lasers, ion, plasma, and particle beams(do HALF damage). However, magic attacks and kinetic attacks(rail guns, explosive missiles, meteors, etc..) do FULL damage. If the ship’s hull takes more than 70% overall damage, the dispersion network is compromised and energy attacks revert to full damage.

*Stealth Sheathing---EW generators underneath the Syzite armor produce jamming radiations as well as alter the energy-absorbant armor to absorb or deflect sensor radiations. The Atom thus enjoys a -20% to enemy detection rolls, and a -3 to strike with sensor-guided weaponry.

Weapons Systems:
1) Pulse Lasers(2)---The Atom carries two fixed-forward light pulse lasers for its main weaponry.
Range: 6,000 ft in atmosphere, 2.4 miles in space
(Kitsune Values: 2.4 miles in atmosphere, 240 miles in space)
Damage: 1d4x10 MD per blast, 2d4x10 MD for both lasers firing simultaneously
Rate of Fire: EPCHH
Payload: Effectively Unlimited

2) (Optional) Underfuselage Hardpoint(1)---The Atom can be fitted with a single belly-mount pylon for carrying a single ordnance pod, but reduce the Dodge bonus to +3 due to the added mass. Can be fitted with ONE of the following;
a) Rail Gun
Range: 6,000 ft in atmosphere, 3 miles in space
(Kitsune Values: 3 miles in atmosphere, 300 miles in space)
Damage: 1d6x10 MD per 10-round burst
Rate of Fire: EPCHH
Payload: 1,000 bursts
b) Laser Pod
Range: 6,000 ft in atmosphere, 2.4 miles in space
(Kitsune Values: 2.4 miles in atmosphere, 240 miles in space)
Damage: 1d4x10 MD per blast, 2d4x10 MD for both lasers firing simultaneously
Rate of Fire: EPCHH
Payload: Effectively Unlimited
c) Ion Cannon Pod
Range: 4,000 ft in atmosphere,8,000 ft in space
(Kitsune Values: 8,000 ft in atmosphere, 160 miles in space)
Damage:2d4x10 MD per blast
Rate of Fire: EPCHH
Payload:Effectively Unlimited
d) Particle Beam Blaster
Range: 1 mile in atmosphere, 2 miles in space
(Kitsune Values: 2 miles in atmosphere, 200 miles in space)
Damage:1d6x10 MD per blast
Rate of Fire: EPCHH
Payload:Effectively Unlimited
e) Phase Beamer
Range: 4,000 ft in atmosphere, 8,000 ft in space
(Kitsune Values: 8,000 ft in atmosphere, 160 miles in space)
Damage: 3d6 to living beings in a 30 ft area, 1d6x10 to forcefields and creatures 10 ft or larger
Rate of Fire: EPCHH
Payload:100 blasts
f) Mini-Missile Launcher Pod---12
g) Short Range Missile Pod---3 SRMs
h) Medium Range Missiles---2
i) Long Range Missile-1

Variants:
There are two major variants of the Atom; the first, the WZ-XLF-087B, is in many ways a throwback to the old civilian Jinesan Aerospace Microstar; the -087B strips out the lasers and capacitors, retains the syzite armor and forceshielding, but uses the freed-up space to mount two small cargo/baggage compartments and an extra seat for a passenger behind the pilot. The -087B also has the capability of being connected to an external CG-Drive ‘sled’, allowing the ship to travel FTL. The -087B version is being marketed as a personal transport for couriers and wealthy sportsmen.
The WZ-XLF-087D is an attempt to upgrade the firepower of the Atom by replacing the twin lasers with more powerful particle beam cannons similar to the weapon available as a belly-mount pod. The added weight of the PBCs’ capacitor banks reduces the Atom’s maneuverability slightly, +4 to Dodge as opposed to +5.

Very nice Taalismn! I like it!

Gotta get back into spacecraft design and production!

Super Atom:
Nice. It surely will move the minds, who developed the
NE combat pods. After all, it is the same tactical category.

As for price, initially I would suggest a steep 20 million,
and later, as the market begins to be saturated and
R+D costs came back to corp wallett, it could be lowered
to like 10-12 million + weapons pods.

Adios
KLM

Those are interesting thoughts KLM!

If you use my spreadsheet, the price comes out to be somewhere around 55 million credits. The most expensive component? The reactor. At 800k for every year of life, it flipped the scale at 40 million of those credits. Drop the reactor life down to 5 years and the total cost drops to 19.6 million. As always, remember that these are prototypes and first product runs. Mass produced, the cost probably would drop by 30% or so.

Quick note: If you previously downloaded the sheet off my page, you're going to want to either update it or change it to fix an extra zero I had in the Ship's Electronics pricing. It was supposed to be 1.6~ million, not 16.~ million.

I'll have to check out your spreadsheets then...
My likeliest explanation for low prices is that WZTechyards has the backing of some exotic aliens whose powerplant technology allows them substantial savings..savings they pass along to the consumer...and, of course, they may be deliberately cutting their profit margins in order to compete with the established corporations, until they can get in the position of significant marketshare that their prices can comfortably creep back up....Cynical? Underhanded? Risky? Yes, but that's been established practice with airline fare wars....

devillin wrote:If you use my spreadsheet, the price comes out to be somewhere around 55 million credits. The most expensive component? The reactor. At 800k for every year of life, it flipped the scale at 40 million of those credits. Drop the reactor life down to 5 years and the total cost drops to 19.6 million. As always, remember that these are prototypes and first product runs. Mass produced, the cost probably would drop by 30% or so.

Hmm... For my part, I was always considering, that starfighters
have a reactor life of decades on "standby" mode, but only a
year or two in combat mode.
Recon craft, or such large "fighters" as the Proctor however
- depending on the GM's option about refuelling - might have
longer reactor life.

Besides, reactor life is but one parameter. The other, usually
overlooked part is power output. A reactor capable to power
a Protector battleship, with a single year reactor life might
cost more, than a hundred starfighter reactors, each with a
decade in them.

Just my two virtual cents.

Adios
KLM

Sounds interesting. I still have yet to try out your spreadsheet. I'll try it out as Rl gives me enough of a break too.

KLM wrote:

Besides, reactor life is but one parameter. The other, usually
overlooked part is power output. A reactor capable to power
a Protector battleship, with a single year reactor life might
cost more, than a hundred starfighter reactors, each with a
decade in them.

Just my two virtual cents.

Adios
KLM

Slow burn as opposed to fast flare, yes?

More like a scooter's engine block vs. a 40.000 HP
diesel engine.

"Reactor life" depends on two main things:

a, shielding - how often do you have to change radiation
absorbent material

b, fuel - how much fission/fusion/anti material is stored in
the power system.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
As for standby vs. combat mode:
Yes, it is the case of slow burn vs. fast flare, but in the case
of bigger craft, it is entirely possible, that they have a
main reactor and an APU, on standby mode, only the APU
runs...

Adios
KLM

I'd say you have it spot on KLM!

KLM wrote:Hmm... For my part, I was always considering, that starfighters
have a reactor life of decades on "standby" mode, but only a
year or two in combat mode.

That would only work if it is a fusion based reactor. A true "nuclear" fission reactor would turn into a brick if completely turned off, versus an antimatter reactor would blow up if the energy output is reduced. You need to keep juice running for containment, so its reactor life period would include this consideration. So, you're left with fusion, which can be completely shutdown, but would require a starship to provide enough power to get it started back up.

Besides, reactor life is but one parameter. The other, usually
overlooked part is power output. A reactor capable to power
a Protector battleship, with a single year reactor life might
cost more, than a hundred starfighter reactors, each with a
decade in them.

That was already taken into consideration in the spreadsheet. The reactor cost increases by the size-class of the ship. So while a 50-year reactor for a fighter might cost 40 million, for a cruiser, the same reactor would cost 160 million.

Quick note: The costs in my spreadsheet are based on the prevailing technology level of the area where the ship is being built. So if the prevailing tech level of a planet allows it to build fusion reactors, radar sensors, radio comms, and IC-based computers, the cost to them is the same as if you went to an ultra-tech planet and had the same ship built with antimatter reactors, quantum sensors and computers, and FTL comms. Now if you were an ultra-tech planet and built one of those "primitive" ships, I could see there being a significant savings. Just keep in mind, the cheaper ship is also going to be less durable and a lot bulkier than the ultra-tech version.

I've still have to try it out. Sorry RL has kept me busy.

*WZ-CRZ--108 Shiva Missile Cruiser

“Quite an impressive looking asteroid fortress they have over their capital, no? Those laser cannons of theirs look quite impressive...or they would if they had any effect on us. Ordnance officer, I want a full salvo of contra-matter torpedoes from our squadrons on that object out there; synchronized strike. I want the dear Adophate of Calshram to know that his fortress is little more than a doormat to us, and we will wipe our feet on it of what remains of his fighter squadrons before walking into his very living room. Perhaps the cloud of vaporized moon above his palace will finally convince him to see reason and surrender, yes? No? No agreements? Oh well, in that case we’ll be have to be prepared....Ordnance officer, once the moon is destroyed, reload all launchers and stand by for further targeting instructions.”
----Admiral Rholgar Tenzaki, on the bridge of his Shiva-class flagship -_Chooser of the Slain_, during the Erasol Reaches War.

The Shiva is a thoroughly modern, state-of-the-art warship produced by WZTechYards Spiral. The ship uses technologies pioneered and proven on the Cachalot and Angel-series ships.
The Shiva has a conventional triangular hull formation familiar to the Cannestag shipyards, the primary contractor for the Shiva. Heavy physical armor and armament are also signatures of the Cannestag shipwrights, but WZ has added such innovations as energy-absorber shielding flanges. The Shiva also mounts syzite energy disipation armor, rendering the ship effectively immune to energy weapons, when taken in combination with the energy absorption system. This allows the Shiva to drive into all but the heaviest laser and particle beam weapon fire and emerge virtually unscathed, to wreak havoc with its counterfire. “That which does not destroy us only pisses us off” is a common motto for Shiva crews.
Larger and heavier than a Warshield cruiser, the Shiva is typically used to attack formations of other warships, attacking with an initial long range barrage and subsequent salvos of missiles, while closing to direct fire weapons range. It is best deployed in squadron strength, where the ships can employ overlapping fire to defend against flank attacks. Early production runs of the Shiva lacked adequate point defense weaponry, but battlefield experience resulted in subsequent models being fitted with substantial light armaments for point defense(surviving early examples have been recalled and refitted with ‘bolt-on’ PDS kits). Still, critics contend the Shiva is lacking in mid-range and light defensive weaponry, as well as a fighter and small craft complement that would allow the ships to operate with more versatility, especially important for such large craft. WZ supports the Cannestag shipyards, arguing that much of the ship’s extra mass(compared to the Warshield) is given over to the ship’s energy management systems that render it less vulnerable to energy attacks. Still, WZ is looking at variant hulls and upgrades that would increase point defense protection.
The Shiva saw its first real battle action during the lifting of the Seige of Alcabada VII, when two line-squadrons of Shiva cruisers attached to the Free Planets Association attacked Pronouncement of the Enlightened blockade forces. Though half of the Shiva taskforce was destroyed in the brutal combat to liberate Alcabada VII, the cruisers accounted for a better than five to one loss ratio of PoE capital units. Only when the Enlightened forces turned their Stern Hand of Discipline-class rail cannons on the Shivas were the ships’ energy defenses negated and the FPA ships critically damaged.
Type:WZ-CRZ--108 Shiva
Class:Heavy Missile Cruiser
Crew: 153
MDC/Armor by Location:
Main Body 80,000
Bridge 12.000
Particle Beam Cannon Turret 4,000
Secondary Beam Cannon Turrets(2) 2,500 each
Cruise Missile Launchers(3) 3,000 each
Medium Range Missile Launchers(6) 600 each
Point Defense Laser/Missile Turrets(9) 150 each
Hangar Bay(1) 9.,000
Variable Forcefields* 8,000 per side(42,000 total)
*Shield Refresh Rate is 15% per melee
Height: 384 ft (128 m)
Width: 960 ft (320 m)
Length: 960 ft (320 m)
Weight: 300,000 tons
Cargo: 20,000 tons
Powerplant:Advanced Lucerin-Fuelled Nuclear Fusion w/ 50 year energy life.
Speed:
(Atmosphere) Hover to Mach 6, transatmospheric
(Sublight) Mach 12
(Kitsune Values: 60% of light speed; Accelerates/decelerates at 1.2% of light speed per melee)
(FTL) 5 light years per hour
(Underwater) Not possible
Market Cost: 6 billion credits
Systems of Note:
Standard Starship Systems, plus:
*Syzite-Crystal composite armor---First pioneered on the tiny Atom Light Fighter, this advanced armor comes in the form of overlapping flat crystalline ‘cells’ bonded together by fiber-conduits that help transfer and disperse energy from weapons attacks, reducing the damage. This effectively works to render the ship’s hull resistant to ENERGY weapons, such as lasers, ion, plasma, and particle beams(do HALF damage). However, magic attacks and kinetic attacks(rail guns, explosive missiles, meteors, etc..) do FULL damage. If the ship’s hull takes more than 70% overall damage, the dispersion network is compromised and energy attacks revert to full damage.

*Energy Absorption System----Prototyped on WZ’s Angel Light Fighter, this system actually ABSORBS incoming enemy laser, ion, and particle beam weapons fire and reduces its damage by 75%...the next melee, HALF of the damage initially rolled is applied to Shield MDC. The system is ineffective against plasma, rail guns, and projectile weaponry. The only other limitation is that it cannot handle more than 1,000 MD per attack(so a main battle cannon doing 1d6x1,000 MD per blast would do full damage...but would then have to deal with the Syzite-Crystal composite armor ).

Weapons Systems:
1) Cruise Missile Launcher Batteries(3, 1 dorsal, 2 ventral)----The main long range weapon of the Shiva are these three massive Kali-C cruise missile launch batteries.
Range:Varies by Missile Type
(Kitsune Values: 3,400 miles in atmosphere, 1,800,000 miles in space)
Damage:Varies by Missile Type
Rate of Fire: Volleys of 1-32 each launcher
Payload: 64 each launcher, 192 total. Additional missiles may be stored in the cargo holds and reloaded within 30 minutes(1 ton of cargo per 6 missiles)

2) Medium Range Missile Launchers(6)---Concealed in the leading edge of each side of the triangular hull are six MRM launch systems. These deploy to provide mid-range defense against enemy fighters and attack ships.
Range:Varies by Missile Type
(Kitsune Values: 160 miles in atmosphere, 80,000 miles in space)
Damage:Varies by Missile Type
Rate of Fire: Volleys of 1-36
Payload: 360 missiles each launcher; total. Additional missiles may be stored in the cargo holds and reloaded within 30 minutes(1 ton of cargo per 24 missiles)

3) Heavy Particle Beam Cannons(2x1)---Backing the main missile launchers is a turret holding twin heavy particle beam cannons. The selection of these weapons has been criticized; despite their heavy damage curve, their rate of fire is incredibly slow(by Three Galaxy standards), and the mounting of both cannon in in one turret increases the chance of a single lucky hit depriving the ship of BOTH its long-range PBCs. However, Cannestag engineers contend that the mounting greatly reduces maintanance and target acquisition routing, as both cannons share the same targeting arrays.
Range: 14 miles in atmosphere, 60 miles in space
(Kitsune Values: 60 miles in atmosphere, 60,000 miles in space)
Damage: 1d6x1,000 MD per shot, 2d6x1,000 MD per double-barreled blast
Rate of Fire: Once every 2 melees; typically only one fires a melee
Payload: Effectively Unlimited

4) Medium Particle Beam Cannons(4, 2x2) ---Secondary energy armament consists of two double-barreled medium particle beam weapons. These weapons have less damage potential, but a higher rate of fire.
Range: 7 miles in atmosphere, 14 miles in space
(Kitsune Values: 14 miles in atmosphere, 14,000 miles in space)
Damage: 2d6x100 MD per shot, 4d6x100 MD per double-barreled blast
Rate of Fire: Three times per melee per barrel
Payload: Effectively Unlimited

5)Point Defense Laser/Missile Turrets(9) ---WZ added these combination double-laser/mini-missile turrets(based on well-tested CCW hardware) after reports from early actions against pirates showed a glaring lack of point defense armament(though WZ contends that this was largely due to the buyers’ attempts to operate the Shiva alone, rather than as part of a supporting flotilla, against opponents known to use small, fast, vessels, rather than capital ships). Fortunately, design tolerances allowed for the Shiva to be refitted with PDS armaments, and all subsequent production mounts the improved weapons configuration.
Range: (Lasers) 4,000 ft in atmosphere/2 miles in space
(Kitsune Values: 2 miles in atmosphere /200 miles in space)
(Mini-Missiles) 1 mile in atmosphere/2 miles in space
(Kitsune Values: 2 miles in atmosphere/ 100 miles in space)
Damage:(Lasers) 1d6x10 MD per blast
(Mini-Missiles) Varies by Missile Type
Rate of Fire:(Lasers) EGCHH, or auto-fire; 6 attacks per melee
(Mini-Missiles) Volleys of 1-8
Payload: (Rail Gun) Effectively Unlimited
(Mini-Missiles) 32 mini-missiles per turret; additional mini-missiles can be carried as cargo(typically takes 2d6 minutes to reload from the holds).


Auxiliary Craft:
4 shuttlecraft

Variants:
WZ has already produced one variant of the Shiva; the Shiva-WZ-CRZ--108C model, which is configured as a command ship. The ship carries an additional 100 crew members; a command staff and communications/intelligence technicians, as well as a small security force of Marines. In order to accommodate the added staff, all but one of the cruise missile batteries are stripped out(their external launchers replaced with false housings concealing an additional Medium PBC battery and sensory radomes).
Reportedly, a number of Shiva hulls in the production flow have been pulled for modification to other purposes and configurations. One experimental revision, dubbed WZ-CRZ--108DX strips out one of the cruise missile systems and the heavy PBC turret in favor of twin medium rangel missile launchers(with 300 MRMs each) an additional 4 laser/mini-missile turrets, and a 8 Warshield-style point defense rail guns. Two squadrons(12 ships) of fighters are also added.
Another variant, the WZ-CRZ--108CVX, removes all cruise missile launchers and the heavy PBC, adds 4 LRM launchers and 4 point defense turrets, and expands the landing bay to hold 24 fighters and 2 additional shuttles, with 4 platoons of power armored marines, turning the ship into an assault carrier.

devillin wrote:

KLM wrote:Hmm... For my part, I was always considering, that starfighters
have a reactor life of decades on "standby" mode, but only a
year or two in combat mode.

That would only work if it is a fusion based reactor. A true "nuclear" fission reactor would turn into a brick if completely turned off, versus an antimatter reactor would blow up if the energy output is reduced. You need to keep juice running for containment, so its reactor life period would include this consideration. So, you're left with fusion, which can be completely shutdown, but would require a starship to provide enough power to get it started back up.

First, standby mode is not equal of being shut down.

Therefore, an AM reactor in standby mode pours enough
reaction mass into the reactor to maintain the containment
field and maybe run the ships electronics (or at least some of it).
And we can agree, that AM reactor technology - per definition -
allows a very precise regulation of AM feed.

As for fission... Well, what if all rods are retracted, and the
reactor stops, so what? How big the batteries needed to be
(using E-clip technology) to restart a reactor? Or is there
any obstacle for stopping and then restarting a fission
reactor?

Adios
KLM

That is an AWESOME Heavy Cruiser Taalismn! Great job!

Thanks...the real pain with big ships is coming up with distinct new systems, rather than just troweling on weapons, armor, and engine power....

Shiva: looks all right for me.

Adios
KLM

That is true, especially when it is an independent of other powers that be.

KLM wrote:Shiva: looks all right for me.

Adios
KLM

High praise indeed!

I figured the energy protection was balanced out by the relative lack of point defense and fighter cover...

Yeah Taalismn! You are right about that! High praise from KLM!

Aramanthus wrote:Yeah Taalismn! You are right about that! High praise from KLM!

Hmm... Now, that you are talking, the price tag is a bit low...

Adios
KLM

ROFLMAO!!! I knew you'd have to say something KLM!!!

I'm not taking KLM with me when I go shopping for a starship....

Dealer: "This cruiser's moving at 14 million credits..."
TM:('hmmmmm....ship's hull is sound, systems are solid, everything checks out, and it's brand new, a proven and reliable model....the ship's worth at least four times the asking price...I'm sure it's not haunted or cursed, so this guy's inept at pricing...it's a steal...')"I'll take it! Cash or check?"
KLM:"I dunno...you know, sir, the ship's worth at least 50 million credits? Your price is kinda low...."
Dealer: "It IS? "
KLM: "Check the pricing spreadsheets yourself if you think I'm kidding...that thing's worth a LOT more than what you're asking..."
Dealer: "Hold on there....I just gotta check something..."
TM('hmmmmmm....I COULD kill 'Mister Honesty' here and steal the ship before he gets back...with only 20 million credits to spare, I SHOULD...')

ROFLMAO!!! I can't wait to see KLM's response to that one!!!

Bah... So you won't be one of my costumers

Adios
KLM

KLM wrote:Bah... So you won't be one of my costumers

Adios
KLM

See? Honesty DOESN'T pay!

All depends on which side of the transaction you're on..

If I'm SELLING, I want KLM to help me price accordingly so I get the best price for my goods...
If I'm BUYING, he's staying in the parking lot minding the car and doing crossword puzzles until I'm finished hitching the landing gear tow-bar to the trailer hitch....

Then again, if the product is good, people will pay....and if it's lousy, and you cut the price enough, people will still pay for it...

ROFLMAO!! I'd love to be along with you two trying to buy a starship. I'd be the one on the floor laughing about you two going at it!

ah, KLM would just smack me unconscious with the buyers' guide and go buy a squadron and spare parts supply.....

LOL!! I can't wait until I see his response!

(Nervously checks the locks on the doors and the windows...)

Actually, a few Repo-Bots convinced me, that
lowering prices under a "reasonable" level is
just going to bring suffering to countless poor
beings, terrorised by poor dictators (at least
now they are just terrorised by rich dictators
and xenophobic aliens)...

...and then, of course I will suffer, told the Repo-Bot.


Adios
KLM

ROFLMAO!!! Those were both great responses! I have to get back on the designing ship drawing board again to finish those Golgan Republik Mercenary ships!

KLM wrote:Actually, a few Repo-Bots convinced me, that
lowering prices under a "reasonable" level is
just going to bring suffering to countless poor
beings, terrorised by poor dictators (at least
now they are just terrorised by rich dictators
and xenophobic aliens)...

...and then, of course I will suffer, told the Repo-Bot.


Adios
KLM

Ah, the moral dilemma...to aide and assist, via rebates and discounts legimate security-minded governments/tyrannical administrations or the suffering downtrodden proletariat/mad-dog zealot terrorists....

Oh well, they don't call us 'mercenary' for nothing....

That is very true!

Ever read Machiavelli about mercenaries? (In Art of War, not in the
Prince) He found them a bit less pleasant, than leprosy.



Adios
KLM

LOL Your funny KLM!!!

KLM wrote:Ever read Machiavelli about mercenaries? (In Art of War, not in the
Prince) He found them a bit less pleasant, than leprosy.



Adios
KLM

"Gold may not always get you good soldiers, but good soldiers will always get you gold."
---Mack Reynolds.

True! Very true Taalismn!!

Paraphrased for this thread as:
"Money may not always get you a good ship, but a good ship will always make you money."

But if you have a good crew and a good ship then the odds are in your favor to make decent money!