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I was looking through my copy of Dinosaur Swamp recently, and inspiration struck me. Starting on page 77, there is a dicussion of a weird alien plant called the Steeltree. As the name implies, the wood is a naturally occuring MD material, but it has other interesting properties, as well. The wood can be heated and forged, and alloyed with an actual metallic ore. The examples given in the book are iron, copper, and aluminum. What about silver? To me this has some obvious anti-vampire applications. But if you were to combine silver and wood together in one weapon, what would its effects be vs. vampires? According to Vampire Kingdoms, both substances do double damage to a vampire's hit points, so I figure the two combined would do at least triple damage or perhaps quadruple. Anybody want to share their thoughts on this?

Captain Shiva wrote:I was looking through my copy of Dinosaur Swamp recently, and inspiration struck me. Starting on page 77, there is a dicussion of a weird alien plant called the Steeltree. As the name implies, the wood is a naturally occuring MD material, but it has other interesting properties, as well. The wood can be heated and forged, and alloyed with an actual metallic ore. The examples given in the book are iron, copper, and aluminum. What about silver? To me this has some obvious anti-vampire applications. But if you were to combine silver and wood together in one weapon, what would its effects be vs. vampires? According to Vampire Kingdoms, both substances do double damage to a vampire's hit points, so I figure the two combined would do at least triple damage or perhaps quadruple. Anybody want to share their thoughts on this?

I don't think that "stacking" damage in that manner isn't possible by deliberate design of the Authors; if so, somebody in the Rifts Universe would undoubtedly have "thought of it" by now.

Silver weapons usually have to be of a certain purity to be effective as silver; I don't think doing this would have an especially beneficial effect.

cornholioprime wrote:

Captain Shiva wrote:I was looking through my copy of Dinosaur Swamp recently, and inspiration struck me. Starting on page 77, there is a dicussion of a weird alien plant called the Steeltree. As the name implies, the wood is a naturally occuring MD material, but it has other interesting properties, as well. The wood can be heated and forged, and alloyed with an actual metallic ore. The examples given in the book are iron, copper, and aluminum. What about silver? To me this has some obvious anti-vampire applications. But if you were to combine silver and wood together in one weapon, what would its effects be vs. vampires? According to Vampire Kingdoms, both substances do double damage to a vampire's hit points, so I figure the two combined would do at least triple damage or perhaps quadruple. Anybody want to share their thoughts on this?

I don't think that "stacking" damage in that manner isn't possible by deliberate design of the Authors; if so, somebody in the Rifts Universe would undoubtedly have "thought of it" by now.

"Deliberate design?" In Rifts? That's a good one. What exactly do you mean by "somebody in the Rifts Universe?" Someone will think of it in the next game I GM.

Mark Hall wrote:Silver weapons usually have to be of a certain purity to be effective as silver; I don't think doing this would have an especially beneficial effect.

Yeah, what he said, too.

Captain Shiva wrote:

cornholioprime wrote:

Captain Shiva wrote:I was looking through my copy of Dinosaur Swamp recently, and inspiration struck me. Starting on page 77, there is a dicussion of a weird alien plant called the Steeltree. As the name implies, the wood is a naturally occuring MD material, but it has other interesting properties, as well. The wood can be heated and forged, and alloyed with an actual metallic ore. The examples given in the book are iron, copper, and aluminum. What about silver? To me this has some obvious anti-vampire applications. But if you were to combine silver and wood together in one weapon, what would its effects be vs. vampires? According to Vampire Kingdoms, both substances do double damage to a vampire's hit points, so I figure the two combined would do at least triple damage or perhaps quadruple. Anybody want to share their thoughts on this?

I don't think that "stacking" damage in that manner isn't possible by deliberate design of the Authors; if so, somebody in the Rifts Universe would undoubtedly have "thought of it" by now.

"Deliberate design?" In Rifts? That's a good one. What exactly do you mean by "somebody in the Rifts Universe?" Someone will think of it in the next game I GM.

[Out-Of-Game Explanation]
I mean that the Authors of the Game would have given somebody in the Rifts Universe "a burst of insight" by now.
[/Out-Of-Game Explanation]

[In-Game Explanation]
Certainly enough beings in the Megaverse have fought enough Vampires to have stumbled across this possibility by now with trial-and-error if it were possible.
[In-Game Explanation]

Mark Hall wrote:Silver weapons usually have to be of a certain purity to be effective as silver; I don't think doing this would have an especially beneficial effect.

If it were any other substance, I would agree with you, but I feel that combining two antivampire sunstances should have additional affect. A steeltree short sword does 2d4 MD, having it do 6d4hp vs vampires should not throw the game too far out of balance, although you could make a case for the lower silver content only making it half as effective vs other creatures only vulnerable to silver, as a tradeoff.

cornholioprime wrote:

Captain Shiva wrote:

cornholioprime wrote:

Captain Shiva wrote:I was looking through my copy of Dinosaur Swamp recently, and inspiration struck me. Starting on page 77, there is a dicussion of a weird alien plant called the Steeltree. As the name implies, the wood is a naturally occuring MD material, but it has other interesting properties, as well. The wood can be heated and forged, and alloyed with an actual metallic ore. The examples given in the book are iron, copper, and aluminum. What about silver? To me this has some obvious anti-vampire applications. But if you were to combine silver and wood together in one weapon, what would its effects be vs. vampires? According to Vampire Kingdoms, both substances do double damage to a vampire's hit points, so I figure the two combined would do at least triple damage or perhaps quadruple. Anybody want to share their thoughts on this?

I don't think that "stacking" damage in that manner isn't possible by deliberate design of the Authors; if so, somebody in the Rifts Universe would undoubtedly have "thought of it" by now.

"Deliberate design?" In Rifts? That's a good one. What exactly do you mean by "somebody in the Rifts Universe?" Someone will think of it in the next game I GM.

[Out-Of-Game Explanation]
I mean that the Authors of the Game would have given somebody in the Rifts Universe "a burst of insight" by now.
[/Out-Of-Game Explanation]

[In-Game Explanation]
Certainly enough beings in the Megaverse have fought enough Vampires to have stumbled across this possibility by now with trial-and-error if it were possible.
[In-Game Explanation]

Steeltree wood is known to be found on Rifts Earth only in one small part of North America, in what used to be South Carloina. It lies in the middle of a hostile wilderness, and while the denizens of the Magic Zone might know of it, the news might never have made to Mexico, where it has more practical use. No one has stated where else, if anywhere, Steeltrees might be found on Rifts Earth, or elsewhere in the Megaverse.

Captain Shiva wrote:I was looking through my copy of Dinosaur Swamp recently, and inspiration struck me. Starting on page 77, there is a dicussion of a weird alien plant called the Steeltree. As the name implies, the wood is a naturally occuring MD material, but it has other interesting properties, as well. The wood can be heated and forged, and alloyed with an actual metallic ore. The examples given in the book are iron, copper, and aluminum. What about silver? To me this has some obvious anti-vampire applications. But if you were to combine silver and wood together in one weapon, what would its effects be vs. vampires? According to Vampire Kingdoms, both substances do double damage to a vampire's hit points, so I figure the two combined would do at least triple damage or perhaps quadruple. Anybody want to share their thoughts on this?

In this case, I think it's safe to say that Double + Double = Double.

Seriously.
If you take a weapon made from silver (double damage) and silver (double damage), then it still only does double damage.
Ditto with wood + wood.
Silver + Wood would work out the same; no increase.

Captain Shiva wrote:

cornholioprime wrote:

Captain Shiva wrote:

cornholioprime wrote:

Captain Shiva wrote:I was looking through my copy of Dinosaur Swamp recently, and inspiration struck me. Starting on page 77, there is a dicussion of a weird alien plant called the Steeltree. As the name implies, the wood is a naturally occuring MD material, but it has other interesting properties, as well. The wood can be heated and forged, and alloyed with an actual metallic ore. The examples given in the book are iron, copper, and aluminum. What about silver? To me this has some obvious anti-vampire applications. But if you were to combine silver and wood together in one weapon, what would its effects be vs. vampires? According to Vampire Kingdoms, both substances do double damage to a vampire's hit points, so I figure the two combined would do at least triple damage or perhaps quadruple. Anybody want to share their thoughts on this?

I don't think that "stacking" damage in that manner isn't possible by deliberate design of the Authors; if so, somebody in the Rifts Universe would undoubtedly have "thought of it" by now.

"Deliberate design?" In Rifts? That's a good one. What exactly do you mean by "somebody in the Rifts Universe?" Someone will think of it in the next game I GM.

[Out-Of-Game Explanation]
I mean that the Authors of the Game would have given somebody in the Rifts Universe "a burst of insight" by now.
[/Out-Of-Game Explanation]

[In-Game Explanation]
Certainly enough beings in the Megaverse have fought enough Vampires to have stumbled across this possibility by now with trial-and-error if it were possible.
[In-Game Explanation]

Steeltree wood is known to be found on Rifts Earth only in one small part of North America, in what used to be South Carloina. It lies in the middle of a hostile wilderness, and while the denizens of the Magic Zone might know of it, the news might never have made to Mexico, where it has more practical use. No one has stated where else, if anywhere, Steeltrees might be found on Rifts Earth, or elsewhere in the Megaverse.

Since the Palladium spell magic that makes Weapons Indestructible (no matter their original substance) is in plentiful supply elsewhere in the Palladium Megaverse, the steelwood tree is not an important or necessary factor to consider.

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Captain Shiva wrote:I was looking through my copy of Dinosaur Swamp recently, and inspiration struck me. Starting on page 77, there is a dicussion of a weird alien plant called the Steeltree. As the name implies, the wood is a naturally occuring MD material, but it has other interesting properties, as well. The wood can be heated and forged, and alloyed with an actual metallic ore. The examples given in the book are iron, copper, and aluminum. What about silver? To me this has some obvious anti-vampire applications. But if you were to combine silver and wood together in one weapon, what would its effects be vs. vampires? According to Vampire Kingdoms, both substances do double damage to a vampire's hit points, so I figure the two combined would do at least triple damage or perhaps quadruple. Anybody want to share their thoughts on this?

In this case, I think it's safe to say that Double + Double = Double.

Seriously.
If you take a weapon made from silver (double damage) and silver (double damage), then it still only does double damage.
Ditto with wood + wood.
Silver + Wood would work out the same; no increase.

cornholioprime wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Captain Shiva wrote:I was looking through my copy of Dinosaur Swamp recently, and inspiration struck me. Starting on page 77, there is a dicussion of a weird alien plant called the Steeltree. As the name implies, the wood is a naturally occuring MD material, but it has other interesting properties, as well. The wood can be heated and forged, and alloyed with an actual metallic ore. The examples given in the book are iron, copper, and aluminum. What about silver? To me this has some obvious anti-vampire applications. But if you were to combine silver and wood together in one weapon, what would its effects be vs. vampires? According to Vampire Kingdoms, both substances do double damage to a vampire's hit points, so I figure the two combined would do at least triple damage or perhaps quadruple. Anybody want to share their thoughts on this?

In this case, I think it's safe to say that Double + Double = Double.

Seriously.
If you take a weapon made from silver (double damage) and silver (double damage), then it still only does double damage.
Ditto with wood + wood.
Silver + Wood would work out the same; no increase.

Ryoma Nagare wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:Seriously.
If you take a weapon made from silver (double damage) and silver (double damage), then it still only does double damage.
Ditto with wood + wood.
Silver + Wood would work out the same; no increase.

Seriously.
If you take hemotoxins (damage to blood) and hemotoxins (damage to blood), then it still only does damage to blood.
Ditto with neurotoxins + neurotoxins.
Hemotoxins + Neurotoxins wouldn't work out the same as they attack two different 'parts' of the body. The nerves and the blood. See, increased damage.

Not for dead people.

You want to argue that wood and silver do different kinds of damage, and that these different kinds would stack, find some support in the books.

As far as I can tell, they both work the exact same way.

Well if you allow it to increase damage, which I would not it should only be x3 since RIFTS BOOK of MAGIC says that spells that double in this case str double the base not any any extra damage pluses.

Silvertree does not exsist.

Only the wood or the silver effect will do damage to vamps, not both.
Each has to the be substance touching the vamp, for it to do damage.
With silver, the silver has to be almost pure, or almost pure plating.
If plated, the wood would not touch the vamp.
If the silver is alloyed with the steeltree wood, then it is not almost pure.
So as you can see it is a binary answer set.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Only the wood or the silver effect will do damage to vamps, not both.
Each has to the be substance touching the vamp, for it to do damage.
With silver, the silver has to be almost pure, or almost pure plating.
If plated, the wood would not touch the vamp.
If the silver is alloyed with the steeltree wood, then it is not almost pure.
So as you can see it is a binary answer set.

Good answer.

I certainly dont think that it would do triple or quadruple damage but the steeltree is still a tree and the weapons made from it (as long as the alloying process is NOT used) are wood, so if you shape a sword from steeltree wood (without forging it with other metals) it will do double damage to vamps without needing any silver involved.