"U-Rounds" versus "The Magically Invulnerable" -who 'wins'??

[cornholioprime]

Okay, folks, since you "asked" for it, a Thread created in this Issue's honor:

How, do you think, do they need to deploy U-Rounds in actual combat in order for them to damage an otherwise magically invulnerable creature like a Vampire or Werebeast??


Can they just fire off U-Shells "naked," as it were, and have them do damage right off the bat??

Or, do they have to shoot them into wounds already suffered by creatures like these??

Perhaps you even think that they would have to make a U-Round part Uranium, part Silver/Wood/Cold Iron, in order to make proper use of these rounds.

In any event, here is one conveniently-placed Thread for everybody to argue one way or the other, once and for all and forever (which, for the Palladium Forums, "forever" means about a year or two on a given issue before we argue the exact same subject once again).


Note: Obviously, I already have my own answer and think that it's 100% correct [ ], but withholding my own views on the subject for the time being and I'm asking you guys to explain how you think U-Rounds have to be deployed to be effective, and I am also asking you to explain why you think so, here in the Main Thread, and then participate in the Poll above.


Enjoy your Discussion!!!

[Dr. Doom III]

I think they should do no damage. Ever.

[runebeo]

I think it depends how your group plays limited invulnerability. Does laser and projectiles just bounce off or do make holes that really have no effect. Our group says it makes holes that just heals over in mere seconds. Still with how low werebeasts and vampires hit points are taking away their regeneration might kill some of the fun fighting them. Maybe NGR 2 might touch this subject again.

[Qev]

I think they should do no damage. Ever.

Seconded.

[Marcethus]

I think they should do no damage. Ever.

Seconded.

Thirded

[cornholioprime]

I think they should do no damage. Ever.

That may be so, as your own personal preference.....but how do you think that they work against Vampires and Were-Beasts in 'real life' combat??

[green.nova343]

Interesting how, of the 3 people saying U-round shouldn't damage supernaturals, none of them have yet voted that way in the poll -- seeing as how (at this point) the only poll responses are option B.

Personally, I voted for B, but it's not exactly the way I envision it. On Rifts Earth, S.D.C. weapons that don't incorporate special materials (i.e. silver or wood) will bounce off of supernatural targets, just like bullets off Superman (or like 9mm rounds against a Skull Smasher)...although I do allow for potential knockdown effects (magic may keep you from being bruised/punctured, but it doesnt' guarantee you stay on your feet -- plus you get the last-scene-of-a-slasher-flick "aaah!!" moment). M.D.C. weapons that don't incorporate special materials (i.e. silver railgun rounds, U-rounds, etc.) will definitely follow the normal knockdown rules, as well. They may even penetrate the skin or go right through... but they won't do any actual damage because the holes/wounds heal up almost instantaneously. Even a burst that would normally rip a similar M.D.C. target into pieces will have all of the holes healed up within a second at most -- definitely not long enough for the creature to bleed. Think of it as similar to the effect for Dorian Gray in League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: bullets went through him, but they didn't really hurt him.

Special weapons -- silver, wood, blessed, U-rounds, etc. -- are an entirely different matter, so to speak. Whether it's the mystical connection, or a particular property of the substance, the supernatural creature isn't able to easily heal the wound.

The truly scary upshot of U-rounds, however, isn't their actual usage. It's what the logical progression brings you to. See, there's only 2 possible reasons that damage from U-rounds is harder for the supernatural to heal even once the round is removed. Either the round is soft enough that it leaves behind microparticles in the target (not enough to impede regeneration, but enough to make healing go much more slowly), or the generally small amount of radiation introduced into the tissue as the round passes through is enough to slow down healing. Why is that scary? Because whose to say that, if said supernatural was kept in a location with equal or higher levels of background radiation -- say, ground zero or near ground zero to a recent thermonuclear blast -- those radiation levels wouldn't make it vulnerable to regular (i.e. non-magical/non-U-round) weapons? The radiation could potentially impede its natural regenerative abilities, possibly to the point that it can't "instantly" heal damage from conventional attacks. It would be a new twist on radiation poisoning: it won't die from the radiation, but it strips away one of their natural abilities.

[runebeo]

the Dorian Gray example is along my thinking as it gives the GM more options to tell the story with gruesome detail. Super man's type invulnerability is so boring "Oh my nothing happened wow how exciting!"

[Balabanto]

I think they should absolutely do damage and do damage at full. The consequences for carrying around U-rounds unless you want to live life in a hazmat suit are so severe that there should be some advantage to them other than having your hair fall out in clumps and the loss of your teeth, along with some skin lesions just for good measure.

[green.nova343]

the Dorian Gray example is along my thinking as it gives the GM more options to tell the story with gruesome detail. Super man's type invulnerability is so boring "Oh my nothing happened wow how exciting!"

Yeah. Seeing a bullet bounce off someone's eye is the "oh, s***, my a** is grass" moment that makes you want to run away. Seeing bullets punch through someone, only to see them just stand there with holes that seal up really quick (or even get knocked down but then jump right back up without a mark on them), and those lips split into an evil smile, is the "oh, f***, what in the 9 Hells am I dealing with here?!?" moment that makes you wonder if you can run fast enough to go hide in the closet... or if the closet is even safe enough.

[rat_bastard]

According the the article "Operation Holy house" which by the way is official material, u rounds damage vampires normally.

[The Galactus Kid]

According the the article "Operation Holy house" which by the way is official material, u rounds damage vampires normally.

Canon material FTW

[dark brandon]

I see no problem in U rounds being able to damage everything.

I'm more curious as to why K originally decided U rounds are the end-all-be-all of hurting things.

[Crazy Lou]

I see no problem in U rounds being able to damage everything.

I'm more curious as to why K originally decided U rounds are the end-all-be-all of hurting things.

why not?

[cornholioprime]

I see no problem in U rounds being able to damage everything.

I'm more curious as to why K originally decided U rounds are the end-all-be-all of hurting things.

Probably because he 'knew' that it would be unrealistic for Coalition Troops to be carrying Silver Rounds by the truckload (cost), and Wood would have been utterly impractical for an MDC Weapon, even in this imaginary setting.

[Dog_O_War]

I believe the answer is obvious; does a werewolf's invunerability state that it's negated by U-rounds?

Does the description of U-rounds state that it negates the invunerabilities of monsters?

The answer to both questions is "NO".

A werewolf's invunerability lists silver as an exception. Not Uranium, but Silver. A silver-coated U-round is pointless since a werewolf must naturally heal from silver wounds anyway, not regenerate/take no damage. This is the same deal in all cases where another material must be used.

U-rounds state that they only force a creature with regeneration to regenerate at normal "human" rates. It does not list in their description that it causes damage to otherwise invunerable opponents.

[RoadWarriorFWaNK]

I go with what the books say.

[Dog_O_War]

I go with what the books say.

The books say that my 44. magnum with a silver round does more damage per round than your C40-SAMAS railgun loaded with U-rounds to a vampire.

The books say that my .38 special does more damage per round than your Bandit BigBore revolver loaded with U-rounds (or silver rounds, for that matter) to the same vampire as above.


Which books shall you trust? The ones with the ruling printed, or the adventure with the exception printed?

My point being that allowing U-rounds to work is a pointless endevour that shows breaks within the game.

[glitterboy2098]

option D. all damage to were's/vamp's creates holes/craters/burns, they just close up and heal really fast.

I believe the answer is obvious; does a werewolf's invunerability state that it's negated by U-rounds?

Does the description of U-rounds state that it negates the invunerabilities of monsters?

The answer to both questions is "NO".

actually, on the list of creatures the rounds effect in WB%, it specifically states werecreatures and vampires, which means that it can hurt them, which means the answer to both questions is a resounding YES

WB5 modifies the WB1 material, and Arzno specifically says U-rounds will damage vamps.

[The Galactus Kid]

option D. all damage to were's/vamp's creates holes/craters/burns, they just close up and heal really fast.

I believe the answer is obvious; does a werewolf's invunerability state that it's negated by U-rounds?

Does the description of U-rounds state that it negates the invunerabilities of monsters?

The answer to both questions is "NO".

actually, on the list of creatures the rounds effect in WB%, it specifically states werecreatures and vampires, which means that it can hurt them, which means the answer to both questions is a resounding YES

WB5 modifies the WB1 material, and Arzno specifically says U-rounds will damage vamps.

Yet again, YAY FOR CANON MATERIAL!!!

[drewkitty ~..~]

A]] A U-Round has to strike an existing wound or somehow get inside the creature's body by other means.
B]] A U-Round, unlike most other Rounds NOT made of Silver, Wood, etc., makes its own hole in the creature, even if it's an otherwise invulnerable Vampire or Were.
C]] A U-Round MUST be part of some sort of (undefined) alloy, mixed in with a metal or substance that does damage creatures like Were's and Vampires, in order to be effective.

I vote J) it doesn't do squat to "Children of the Moon" except maybe hurt/sting when it bounces off. (sort of like getting by a paint-ball w/o any clothes on.) Making them notice you, and "Mad At You"

The problem is that U-rounds are Mundane and vamps and Were-critters Special AR lists them as invulnerable to mundane weapons. So unless the NGR is actually adding a magical aspect to the U-rounds, they should not do squat to those not damaged by mundane weapons.

[csbioborg]

I go with what the books say.

The books say that my 44. magnum with a silver round does more damage per round than your C40-SAMAS railgun loaded with U-rounds to a vampire.

The books say that my .38 special does more damage per round than your Bandit BigBore revolver loaded with U-rounds (or silver rounds, for that matter) to the same vampire as above.


Which books shall you trust? The ones with the ruling printed, or the adventure with the exception printed?

My point being that allowing U-rounds to work is a pointless endevour that shows breaks within the game.

I agree with this

[The Galactus Kid]

A]] A U-Round has to strike an existing wound or somehow get inside the creature's body by other means.
B]] A U-Round, unlike most other Rounds NOT made of Silver, Wood, etc., makes its own hole in the creature, even if it's an otherwise invulnerable Vampire or Were.
C]] A U-Round MUST be part of some sort of (undefined) alloy, mixed in with a metal or substance that does damage creatures like Weres and Vampires, in order to be effective.

I vote J) it doesn't do squat to "Children of the Moon" except maybe hurt/sting when it bounces off. (sort of like getting by a paint-ball w/o any clothes on.) Making them notice you, and "Mad At You"

The problem is that U-rounds are Mundane and vamps and Were-critters Specile AR lists them as invenerable to mundane weapons. So unless the NGR is actully adding a magical aspect to the U-rounds, they should not do squat to those not damaged by mundane weapons.

Thats all well and good, but it isn't what the canon books say.

[glitterboy2098]

WB5 does give radioactive material a supernatural effect. it specifically states that radiation doesn't effect supernatural creatures or creatures of agic, but the Radioactive material does. or as i've said in the other million times this has come up, it's an Alchemical effect, not a chemical one.

[Dog_O_War]

option D. all damage to were's/vamp's creates holes/craters/burns, they just close up and heal really fast.

I believe the answer is obvious; does a werewolf's invunerability state that it's negated by U-rounds?

Does the description of U-rounds state that it negates the invunerabilities of monsters?

The answer to both questions is "NO".

actually, on the list of creatures the rounds effect in WB%, it specifically states werecreatures and vampires, which means that it can hurt them, which means the answer to both questions is a resounding YES

WB5 modifies the WB1 material, and Arzno specifically says U-rounds will damage vamps.

My mistake.
That brings about the other question; why does this not properly translate to mega-damage?
(see my response to roadwarrior)

[drewkitty ~..~]

snip...
The problem is that U-rounds are Mundane and vamps and Were-critters Special AR lists them as invulnerable to mundane weapons. So unless the NGR is actually adding a magical aspect to the U-rounds, they should not do squat to those not damaged by mundane weapons.

Thats all well and good, but it isn't what the canon books say.

You notice that the nature of what I said, the way I said it, was only pointing out the broken part of the cannon material.

[cornholioprime]

option D. all damage to were's/vamp's creates holes/craters/burns, they just close up and heal really fast.

I believe the answer is obvious; does a werewolf's invunerability state that it's negated by U-rounds?

Does the description of U-rounds state that it negates the invunerabilities of monsters?

The answer to both questions is "NO".

actually, on the list of creatures the rounds effect in WB%, it specifically states werecreatures and vampires, which means that it can hurt them, which means the answer to both questions is a resounding YES

WB5 modifies the WB1 material, and Arzno specifically says U-rounds will damage vamps.

My mistake.
That brings about the other question; why does this not properly translate to mega-damage?
(see my response to roadwarrior)

To the Magically Invulnerable, nothing EVER translates to actual Megadamage; any such value, even from the most powerful Magic Artifactts and Weapons of the Gods, does only the equivalent in either SDC or Damage Direct To Hit Points (I forget which, and when either one applies) to creatures like the Undead, Vampires, and Weres.

And depending upon the Undead type, it might STILL be not enough to actually kill them, just put them out of the game for awhile.

[cornholioprime]

A]] A U-Round has to strike an existing wound or somehow get inside the creature's body by other means.
B]] A U-Round, unlike most other Rounds NOT made of Silver, Wood, etc., makes its own hole in the creature, even if it's an otherwise invulnerable Vampire or Were.
C]] A U-Round MUST be part of some sort of (undefined) alloy, mixed in with a metal or substance that does damage creatures like Were's and Vampires, in order to be effective.

I vote J) it doesn't do squat to "Children of the Moon" except maybe hurt/sting when it bounces off. (sort of like getting by a paint-ball w/o any clothes on.) Making them notice you, and "Mad At You"

The problem is that U-rounds are Mundane and vamps and Were-critters Special AR lists them as invulnerable to mundane weapons. So unless the NGR is actually adding a magical aspect to the U-rounds, they should not do squat to those not damaged by mundane weapons.

It's not that various materials are in and of themselves Supernatural (Silver isn't, and neither is Cold Iron or Wood), it's that the Creature in question is magically reactive to those things. Kevin's apparent view is that Uranium is a newly-discovered item to add to that list.


Call it the equivalent of a Supernatural Allergy, if you will (whose victims sometimes have a violent allergic reaction whose symptoms include Ceasing To Exist, Vaporizing Into Nothingness, and Passing On to the Next Realm ).

[Dog_O_War]

option D. all damage to were's/vamp's creates holes/craters/burns, they just close up and heal really fast.

I believe the answer is obvious; does a werewolf's invunerability state that it's negated by U-rounds?

Does the description of U-rounds state that it negates the invunerabilities of monsters?

The answer to both questions is "NO".

actually, on the list of creatures the rounds effect in WB%, it specifically states werecreatures and vampires, which means that it can hurt them, which means the answer to both questions is a resounding YES

WB5 modifies the WB1 material, and Arzno specifically says U-rounds will damage vamps.

My mistake.
That brings about the other question; why does this not properly translate to mega-damage?
(see my response to roadwarrior)

To the Magically Invulnerable, nothing EVER translates to actual Megadamage; any such value, even from the most powerful Magic Artifactts and Weapons of the Gods, does only the equivalent in either SDC or Damage Direct To Hit Points (I forget which, and when either one applies) to creatures like the Undead, Vampires, and Weres.

And depending upon the Undead type, it might STILL be not enough to actually kill them, just put them out of the game for awhile.

I will restate (as the above isn't exactly clear)

My bandit BigBore revolver is normally a 1d6 mega-damage gun. Load in a U-round, and it's still a 1d6MD gun, but it now does 1d6HP to vampires and the like. Load in a silver round, and it's still a 1d6 damage gun (to those foes with vunerability to silver). The gun is also perported as one of the biggest revolvers around.

Meanwhile a railgun (like the NG one that fires single shots - can't remember the name) does 4d6 MD per shot. Loaded with U-rounds, it does 4d6MD/4d6HP damage. Load it with silver; 4d6HP (to those foes with vunerability to silver).


I take my .44 magnum and load in a silver round and it does 4d6HP; more than the BB-6. The same damage as this giant-SS railgun (and you know a railgun is firing a big round if a C40 is doing 1d4 per single shot, and this bad-boy is doing 4d6).

See the problem? U-rounds do not properly convert MD. By these accounts, the BB-6 should be doing atleast as much as a .44; hell, the BB-6 has an intimiation factor based on its size - why then wouldn't a .44? This is what I'm getting at; U-rounds don't properly convert MD.

[rat_bastard]

option D. all damage to were's/vamp's creates holes/craters/burns, they just close up and heal really fast.

I believe the answer is obvious; does a werewolf's invunerability state that it's negated by U-rounds?

Does the description of U-rounds state that it negates the invunerabilities of monsters?

The answer to both questions is "NO".

actually, on the list of creatures the rounds effect in WB%, it specifically states werecreatures and vampires, which means that it can hurt them, which means the answer to both questions is a resounding YES

WB5 modifies the WB1 material, and Arzno specifically says U-rounds will damage vamps.

My mistake.
That brings about the other question; why does this not properly translate to mega-damage?
(see my response to roadwarrior)

To the Magically Invulnerable, nothing EVER translates to actual Megadamage; any such value, even from the most powerful Magic Artifactts and Weapons of the Gods, does only the equivalent in either SDC or Damage Direct To Hit Points (I forget which, and when either one applies) to creatures like the Undead, Vampires, and Weres.

And depending upon the Undead type, it might STILL be not enough to actually kill them, just put them out of the game for awhile.

I will restate (as the above isn't exactly clear)

My bandit BigBore revolver is normally a 1d6 mega-damage gun. Load in a U-round, and it's still a 1d6MD gun, but it now does 1d6HP to vampires and the like. Load in a silver round, and it's still a 1d6 damage gun (to those foes with vunerability to silver). The gun is also perported as one of the biggest revolvers around.

Meanwhile a railgun (like the NG one that fires single shots - can't remember the name) does 4d6 MD per shot. Loaded with U-rounds, it does 4d6MD/4d6HP damage. Load it with silver; 4d6HP (to those foes with vunerability to silver).


I take my .44 magnum and load in a silver round and it does 4d6HP; more than the BB-6. The same damage as this giant-SS railgun (and you know a railgun is firing a big round if a C40 is doing 1d4 per single shot, and this bad-boy is doing 4d6).

See the problem? U-rounds do not properly convert MD. By these accounts, the BB-6 should be doing atleast as much as a .44; hell, the BB-6 has an intimiation factor based on its size - why then wouldn't a .44? This is what I'm getting at; U-rounds don't properly convert MD.

this is where you house rule.

[The Galactus Kid]

this is where you house rule.

Agreed

[Dog_O_War]

this is where you house rule.

I know.
Most of my questions are usually rhetorical; stated to make people think.

What bothers me is that I must house-rule in order for it to make sense (in my mind).

[drewkitty ~..~]

I vote J) it doesn't do squat to "Children of the Moon" except maybe hurt/sting when it bounces off. (sort of like getting by a paint-ball w/o any clothes on.) Making them notice you, and "Mad At You"

The problem is that U-rounds are Mundane and vamps and Were-critters Special AR lists them as invulnerable to mundane weapons. So unless the NGR is actually adding a magical aspect to the U-rounds, they should not do squat to those not damaged by mundane weapons.

It's not that various materials are in and of themselves Supernatural (Silver isn't, and neither is Cold Iron or Wood), it's that the Creature in question is magically reactive to those things. Kevin's apparent view is that Uranium is a newly-discovered item to add to that list.


Call it the equivalent of a Supernatural Allergy, if you will (whose victims sometimes have a violent allergic reaction whose symptoms include Ceasing To Exist, Vaporizing Into Nothingness, and Passing On to the Next Realm ).

Did you notice that I was very specific in what I said?
I didn't say anything about PB cannon, beside saying it was broken in relation to U-rounds.

[rat_bastard]

this is where you house rule.

I know.
Most of my questions are usually rhetorical; stated to make people think.

What bothers me is that I must house-rule in order for it to make sense (in my mind).

really? I have yet to see a system that I did not house rule extensively.

[Dog_O_War]

this is where you house rule.

I know.
Most of my questions are usually rhetorical; stated to make people think.

What bothers me is that I must house-rule in order for it to make sense (in my mind).

really? I have yet to see a system that I did not house rule extensively.

I house-rule in almost every system I've ran, and most of the DMs/GMs/Marshals/Storytellers/etc... have house-ruled the systems they've ran.

But what bothers me is that I must house-rule for things to make sense in this game. Not from a real-world perspective (otherwise I'd have to FIREBALL! myself), but from a verisimilitude/rules perspective.

I've house-ruled D&D (for example) for a change-up of how things work - not because they weren't working, but because I wanted to see if different configurations also worked. Alternate attack schemes, and rolling methods (for example). Different hit-point measurements, damage qualities, weapon-types. Armour, spellcasting, etc... I've manuevered and re-worked all sorts of things; some didn't work at all, others worked incredibly well.

I do not do so here and now in Rifts, though I have experimented with alternate systems within the game itself - this is most often because the way things work do not work consistently within the setting or the rules.

EDIT: like the above mentioned revolver pissing contest - you'd think that the largest, most powerful handgun on Rifts earth would put to shame an SDC revolver, regardless of opponent, but.....

[cornholioprime]

I vote J) it doesn't do squat to "Children of the Moon" except maybe hurt/sting when it bounces off. (sort of like getting by a paint-ball w/o any clothes on.) Making them notice you, and "Mad At You"

The problem is that U-rounds are Mundane and vamps and Were-critters Special AR lists them as invulnerable to mundane weapons. So unless the NGR is actually adding a magical aspect to the U-rounds, they should not do squat to those not damaged by mundane weapons.

It's not that various materials are in and of themselves Supernatural (Silver isn't, and neither is Cold Iron or Wood), it's that the Creature in question is magically reactive to those things. Kevin's apparent view is that Uranium is a newly-discovered item to add to that list.


Call it the equivalent of a Supernatural Allergy, if you will (whose victims sometimes have a violent allergic reaction whose symptoms include Ceasing To Exist, Vaporizing Into Nothingness, and Passing On to the Next Realm ).

Did you notice that I was very specific in what I said?
I didn't say anything about PB cannon, beside saying it was broken in relation to U-rounds.

Drew-kitty, this isn't really a House Rule question; it's a "how do you think Kevin officially wants DU-Rounds to work?" question, with appropriate Poll Choices attached.

Since there appears to be legitimate question and difference of opinion as to how they are supposed to work in the game, I created a new Thread for just that purpose.

[Marcethus]

I voted option D: None of the above.

[The Beast]

I think they should do no damage. Ever.

Seconded.

Thirded

Fourthed, though I'll add that if a creature isn't mentioned as being immune to radiation then it shouldn't begin healing until the round is removed.

[The Beast]

My bandit BigBore revolver is normally a 1d6 mega-damage gun. Load in a U-round, and it's still a 1d6MD gun, but it now does 1d6HP to vampires and the like. Load in a silver round, and it's still a 1d6 damage gun (to those foes with vunerability to silver). The gun is also perported as one of the biggest revolvers around.

Meanwhile a railgun (like the NG one that fires single shots - can't remember the name) does 4d6 MD per shot. Loaded with U-rounds, it does 4d6MD/4d6HP damage. Load it with silver; 4d6HP (to those foes with vunerability to silver).


I take my .44 magnum and load in a silver round and it does 4d6HP; more than the BB-6. The same damage as this giant-SS railgun (and you know a railgun is firing a big round if a C40 is doing 1d4 per single shot, and this bad-boy is doing 4d6).

See the problem? U-rounds do not properly convert MD. By these accounts, the BB-6 should be doing atleast as much as a .44; hell, the BB-6 has an intimiation factor based on its size - why then wouldn't a .44? This is what I'm getting at; U-rounds don't properly convert MD.

Dont DU & U-rounds do extra damage because they're more dense then the stuff normally thrown by railguns?

[The Beast]

Interesting how, of the 3 people saying U-round shouldn't damage supernaturals, none of them have yet voted that way in the poll -- seeing as how (at this point) the only poll responses are option B.

I don't see an option for no damage.

[cornholioprime]

I voted option D: None of the above.

It's amazing how often one has to remind others that the Question in this Thread isn't asking about their own beliefs on how U-Rounds should work, but rather how they believe that the U-Rounds are officially supposed to work.

NOTE: This Thread Question is being put forth by a person who also doesn't like the introduction of U-Rounds into the world of anti-Vampire/Undead/Werebeast Territory, but who recognizes their officially-sanctioned existence.

[Captain Shiva]

Since Vampire Kingdoms states that vampires are immune to radiation, why the heck would a radioactive bullet hurt one? As for other crearures, if the bullet can hurt it, that is to say it is not invulnerable to it, then it should be able to penetrate it's skin. To cite a precedent,Superman is immune to normal bullets, but bullets made of Kryptonite will penetrate his skin like normal bullets do to a normal person.

[Colt47]

I've always played that vampires in Rifts much like anything else can take damage from any form of super technology, just that they have mundane weaknesses that would make using such expensive means of taking them out unnecessary. Yeah, people can go and throw rotten fruit at me for saying it, but the vampire in Rifts Earth just seems completely messed up and out of whack with the setting. Every other supernatural creature with the exception of Vampires and Werebeasts can take damage from mega-damage weapons normally AND have mundane weaknesses. Why should vampires and Werebeasts be so special? (Note even if they could take damage from high tech weapons they still super regenerate unless dealt with using the appropriate means.)

"Hi guys, I'm a demon from a rift! Lasers can hurt me, but it's a lot cheaper to shoot me full of bone and wood chips!"

(looks at the pale guy with big fangs) "What about you there little guy?"

"I'm a villain from classic literature and have been stereotyped in numerous films in the 20th century, therefore I'm completely immune to all the high tech Gizmos of Rifts Earth and can only be killed in the good old fashion ways shown in the movies! In fact, I can't even be killed by artificially created light from magic sources or tech sources, because it lacks the spirit juice to do it. Yup, it has to be direct honest to god sunlight to burn me, even though in previous products that particular method worked fairly well."

Now come on people, does this make any freaking sense?

But back to the question at hand: With the current rules in the game, the rounds do no damage, but slow the regenerative power of the vampire by half. How it does so is completely up to the player and GMs imagination, but that is how the rules work. I hate freaking Rifts crappy vampire and werebeast rules.

Tangent warning:

Vampires don't need to be freaking invincible to high tech weapons! They are like a plague in how they spread! Not every average Joe has a high tech weapon to defend himself with, and most common folk, even if they knew how to handle a vampire, would still fall to them since they are intelligent predators. Why in Gods sweet earth Palladium decided they wanted vampires to be nigh invincible is beyond me. How about we have invincible mole rats that eat human bone and are running rampant in the New West? Oh, they can only come out at night to eat, but they can chew threw anything with their teeth and unless you fight them with dental floss you are in trouble! They only take damage from Dental Floss! HOW DO YOU LIKE THEM APPLES!

[Dr. Doom III]

I voted option D: None of the above.

It's amazing how often one has to remind others that the Question in this Thread isn't asking about their own beliefs on how U-Rounds should work, but rather how they believe that the U-Rounds are officially supposed to work.

NOTE: This Thread Question is being put forth by a person who also doesn't like the introduction of U-Rounds into the world of anti-Vampire/Undead/Werebeast Territory, but who recognizes their officially-sanctioned existence.

I don't care how they are officially supposed to work.
I think that uranium for some unknown reason doing damage to creatures that are only vulnerable to a few specific things is dumb.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Interesting how, of the 3 people saying U-round shouldn't damage supernaturals, none of them have yet voted that way in the poll -- seeing as how (at this point) the only poll responses are option B.

I don't see an option for no damage.

What I am seeing is people saying that U-rounds shouldn't damage those that are invulnerable to mundane weapons' damage, not the SN (&CoM) in general.

[Colt47]

How do vampires and werebeasts differ?

[Dr. Doom III]

How do vampires and werebeasts differ?

A few vulnerabilities and the speed/power of their regeneration.

[cornholioprime]

I voted option D: None of the above.

It's amazing how often one has to remind others that the Question in this Thread isn't asking about their own beliefs on how U-Rounds should work, but rather how they believe that the U-Rounds are officially supposed to work.

NOTE: This Thread Question is being put forth by a person who also doesn't like the introduction of U-Rounds into the world of anti-Vampire/Undead/Werebeast Territory, but who recognizes their officially-sanctioned existence.

I don't care how they are officially supposed to work.
I think that uranium for some unknown reason doing damage to creatures that are only vulnerable to a few specific things is dumb.

We'll all keep that in mind....when we see your Game Setting published....and the Rules that you'll set up in it.

But since we're talking about Kevin's Game, well......

[cornholioprime]

Since Vampire Kingdoms states that vampires are immune to radiation, why the heck would a radioactive bullet hurt one?

My friend, once you accept the premise that Nuclear Power Packs can run for 20 years without fuel retrofit or waste disposal, I'm afraid that you're going to have to swallow a whole lot more where that came from.

(You should see one of the old Threads about how unfeasible it is for the Coalition State's economy to function. Your head will spin!!)