Contests of Strength

[GreenGhost]

I came across a situation that doesn't happen very often in the games that I GM. I was running a BTS game when a character got into a contest of strength; holding an opponent by the wrists and pinning him down under water. We had a temporary solution that worked for tonight's game, but I was wondering where the rules could be found for contests of strength or what type of house rules are out there.

Thanks!

[lather]

seems it's your turn now!

[GreenGhost]

seems it's your turn now!

My turn?

[GreenGhost]

Both parties roll 1D20+PS, high result wins.

In the case of mis-matching PS levels (normal vs. SNPS for example), the higher category always wins.

I find this house rule pretty fair.

Cool! Thanks.

[The Beast]

seems it's your turn now!

My turn?

To double-post a new topic...

[GreenGhost]

seems it's your turn now!

My turn?

To double-post a new topic...

Yep. I don't know how that happened, LOL!

[lather]

seems it's your turn now!

My turn?

To double-post a new topic...

Yep. I don't know how that happened, LOL!

Always deny and counteraccuse

[GreenGhost]

seems it's your turn now!

My turn?

To double-post a new topic...

Yep. I don't know how that happened, LOL!

Always deny and counteraccuse

[lather]

Throw experience level in the mix, too.

[ZorValachan]

I use more of an attack/defense thing.

Attacker rolls a d20. If it is under their PS, that amount is a +, if it is over the PS, that amount is a -. Adding a +1 per level of the Wrestling skill.

Defender takes the total above modifier and rolls a d20 adding -1 per level of wrestling. If it is above his PS, he is pinned. If Under the PS, he breaks free.

If the attacker decides to continue the pin, he may opt to re-roll from the start (hopefully doing a new better hold), or add +1 to the original total.

Example:
A goes to pin B.
A is is Level 5, but didn't take the Wrestling Skill until level 3, so it is currently at 3rd level. He has a PS of 18.
B is level 4, took wrestling at character creation. PS of 17.

A rolls a 10. It is 8 points under 18. 8+3=+11

B takes the +11-4 (his own wrestling skill). His roll would have a +7. A 10 or lower he succeeds in breaking the Pin, 11+ on his roll, he is pinned.

Next action, A can decide the +7 is decent and keep the same basic pin, just slight re-positioning and wearing B down and make a break attempt at +8. Or he can try a new hold altogether and 'roll from top' again.

[Dog_O_War]

I prefer tighter comparisons, so I'll throw this out there for you guys to catch.


Instead of using the d20+PS, roll a d10+PS. The reasoning behind this is to remove the chance for absurdity.

That is, take two characters - one with a strength of two (he's a mouse or something), and a character with a strength of 20 (he's a strong human).

Rolling a d20+PS offers that the human can actually be tied/lose this contest a full <edited: damned percentage comparisons> of the time. That's crap.

With the d10, the human cannot lose. Ever. No critical successes/failures either.

In addition to this, adding your size as a modifier is also recommended.
That is (this gets a bit complicated), take normal human size as average. No pluses or minuses.
Every step below normal human size nets you a -1 to the roll. Every step above nets you +1 to the roll. This offers a weight/leverage factor. It's not going to be a huge difference unless there is a "huge" difference between the two competitors, which I like (because it's subtle).

That said, there are additional bonuses for having different strength categories. Augmented strength nets you +5 to your roll. Robotic nets you +15. Supernatural nets you +30. This means that people of average strength in each category will never be able to beat the category above them (the exception being between augmented and normal); only the incredibly strong/incredibly different sized competitors can hope to upset the balance, otherwise it's usually a fair and logical comparison between the various sizes/strength scores.

That's my take on it.

[ZorValachan]

In all the above examples, people just take a die (d20/d10, whatever) and add PS to it to see who 'wins' in a contest of strength. Be it arm wrestling, or as the OP as a pin to keep another character underwater.

To me, just taking PS and adding a D20, makes it a '1 shot' deal then over. I make it more like a fight with an attacker and defender. In combat you have the attacker swing, shoot, whatever. Then the defender can opt to parry, dodge, etc. People brought up level possibly adding, or hand-to-hand. I see it as a use for the wrestling skill, which is what trying to 'pin' someone actually is.

Many people use a simple 'PS check' as rolling a die under the PS number. The more they make it by, the better they did. GMs often give a bonus or negative to this roll depending on difficulty. So I keep this, as most gamers are accustomed to this principle and why make a completely new mechanic for 1 situation?

So I will try to break down the logic of it.
A contest of strength as the OP described the scene, was wrestling. To pin someone underwater.

Just as a 'normal' check against PS, the attacker rolls under his PS. He is using his strength and skill to pin the defender, and keep the defender pinned under water.
So he gets over to the defender, grabs him and tries to throw him down and pin him. GM has him roll. GM may even want a roll to strike vs parry, dodge. But everyone knows how that works, so let us move on and say the strike roll was successful.

So you have attacker and defender basically wrestling (and not WWE style). Attacker has defender grabbed and is trying to get him pinned. Roll d20 under his PS. The grab is there already. The check is not to see if the defender is grabbed, but to see how well the attacker does on his pin attempt. So if the roll is under the PS, it is a difficulty to the defender. If it is above the PS, the attacker sucked at his attempt, but if the defender sucks even more, the attacker still wins.

Just like in combat when you roll a 5 to hit and the defender rolls a 1 to parry. You sucked, but the other guy sucked worse.

So in my example, the attacker had a PS of 18 and rolled a 10. He did decent under his PS. +8 difficulty to the defenders roll. As I stated, a couple people said level should fit into the equation. I don't agree. You could have a 15th level ley line wizard who never in his life was in a fist fight, wrestled, whatever. And since Palladium has a wrestling skill, why not use this in a 'perfect case' of a situation when the knowledge/experience can be used? In my example, yes I wanted to add a bunch of modifying things, like 'what if you gained wrestling skill after initial character creation', because IMO, many games (not just PB) give base examples, but very rarely full examples with common 'what ifs' detailed. So I stated Attacker was level 5, but didn't gain wrestling until level 3. So he has had wrestling for 3 levels. A small +3 added to the defender's PS defense check, because he is trained for this. No wrestling skill, no problem, no adds.

So easy. Attacker rolled a 10. It is 8 under his PS. he is trained in wrestling, so +3 =+11 to the defender's roll.

But just as in combat, the defender should be able to use his training and own strength to fight off the pin (just like dodging and parrying). He has a PS of 17 in my example. I gave him wrestling from character creation and he is level 4. His training in it gives a bonus of -4 to his roll. Just as if he was dodging/parrying in combat his training would help him defend in these situations. So the attacker made him have a +11 to his roll and his own training give him -4. 11-4=+7. His rolls his die and adds 7. If it matches or is under his PS, he succeeds his check and is not pinned. If he goes over the PS, he is pinned.

If you want to break it down to the simplest. Attacker rolls PS Check. Under PS = +, over PS = - to Defender roll. Defender rolls with modifier and hopes to get Under PS.

That's not any more difficult than both guys rolling PS+D20 and comparing, other than the rolls are attacker first, defender second, like any other combat action.

What I do not like about the PS+20 (or+10) and compare, is that it shows it as an all or nothing thing. There is no 'attack then defend', it's just a who beats whose roll. There's not even a difference if the roll-off winner beats the other guy by 1 or 10. Guy 1 and Guy 2 roll off and the winner is declared. After each action it is like they go back to their separate corners and start again. With the +1 difficulty per action i explained at the end of my other post, as the defender stays pinned, it gets harder for him to turn the tables, because the attacker is getting better leverage, wearing the defender down, etc.

Each PS 'category' to me outclasses the one before it. So Augmented always beats normal, robot always beats augmented, etc.

[KillWatch]

1 Does the pinned person have escape artist?
2 If not then but they have Body Flip, the pinned victim must roll over the holder's initial strike roll
3 barring this, PS v PS=1d6+PS, the higher roll wins. No way should a 21 PS lose to a 3 PS