Shooting Into A Melee

[Greyaxe]

Is there supposed to be some sort of penalty for shooting into a melee? .

Depends on how you do it, if you spray you are shooting wild and will hit a number of random targets, probably everyone.

I have looked for an official rule, but can't seem to find one. As is, I presently have a house rule that if you fire into a melee, you hit a random target in the melee unless you use one extra attack to pick out a target..

That’s a called Shot and exactly what you need to avoid hitting a friendly.

Also, can you fire guns while engaged in a melee yourself? .

Absolutely, but you will more than likely be shooting wild, not so bad when you know the opponent will be -10 to dodge.

There is quite a bit of evidence to support this, at least regarding handguns and energy pistols, but what about bigger guns like rail guns and energy rifles? I would think they would be difficult to aim properly while someone was accosting you with punches, kicks, and knife thrusts.

Your GM may allow you to make a simultaneous attack if you are using a big gun, otherwise you can't dodge or parry and still shoot a big gun. IMO

[Nekira Sudacne]

Is there supposed to be some sort of penalty for shooting into a melee? I have looked for an official rule, but can't seem to find one. As is, I presently have a house rule that if you fire into a melee, you hit a random target in the melee unless you use one extra attack to pick out a target.

Also, can you fire guns while engaged in a melee yourself? There is quite a bit of evidence to support this, at least regarding handguns and energy pistols, but what about bigger guns like rail guns and energy rifles? I would think they would be difficult to aim properly while someone was accosting you with punches, kicks, and knife thrusts.

Offically: there is no penalty for shooting into Melee and you can fire guns freely in melee.

You can argue rather or not that makes sense but there's no denying that's the offical rules.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Is there supposed to be some sort of penalty for shooting into a melee?

Moving target penalties.

what I would add on,
Roll under the machine-gun rules (HU2) to see if any other char going at it gets hit.


Also, can you fire guns while engaged in a melee yourself?

Unless your char has some sort of Gun-Foo MA form or Kate, Wild shooting.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I think moving target penalties were intended for targets that spend their turn moving instead of engaging in melee. I don't think ducking and dodging blows counts. Even if it did, it would only count as a -1. You don't get more unless the target is moving more than 20 mph.

Drew, you're the second person I've seen mention wild shooting for using a gun in melee. Is there a source for this? I've never seen it if there is.

shooting wild occurs when a trained char shoots w/o taking time to aim. This usually applies when the person is blinded, angry, running, rolling, leaping, shooting from a moving vehical, etc...

Colored the things the char is when in a melee.

The only WP that applies to melee use of modern weapons is the PF WP modern weapons. This WP is only open to PF chars.
The Two MA forms that involve use of pistols are Triad Assassin (9mm pistols, mystic China), and Gun Fu (R9)

[drewkitty ~..~]

snip...
Third, if you are running, you are not engaged in melee, although you could certainly shoot wild.

Fourth, you must specifically declare that you wish to roll with an attack for that condition to apply, and in such a situation, you lose your next action so actually shooting wild would become a moot point (this is where Palladium's rules team really demonstrates their brilliant understanding of their own rules).

Fifth, leaping falls into pretty much the same category as running. You are moving so you can shoot wild, but you are not in melee with anyone.

...snip

third, fourth, & fifth: The examples of doing things that your char is 'moving'; in melee, you are moving.

to your fourth: Rolling, like on the ground, like after being knocked down or summersalting, or cartwheeling.

And you didn't respond to the "Etc.." which is a catch all for all the rest moving actions and situations that can cause a 'wild shooting' incidence.

[drewkitty ~..~]

"Fighting in Melee" is included in the "etc.."

1) yes you can use a gun while in melee
2) while in a melee fight, the use of a gun would be classified as Shooting wild, or having significant penalties, unless you had a WP or MA form that let you shoot strait while in melee.
3) long arms are worse in a melee fight unless you are using them as a spear/staff/blunt 1st and a gun 2nd.
4) Yes it is very difficult, aka impossible, to aim properly, except for the above mentioned, while being accosted with punches kicks and knife attacks.

[Mouser13]

I think this question is DnD inspired. In 3.0 you random hit people based on size if you don't have a feat. Which I believe is modeled after like old style mass archer fire.

Their is no rule for minus for firing into melee in palladium system.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Regarding my first question in the thread, I admitted it was a house rule I was using regarding firing into melee since I couldn't find one in the Palladium rules. That said, I certainly believe there should be some kind rule like that and my players and I agree that it is fair and reasonable. I just started the thread because I wanted to know if I had overlooked something official, which it seems I have not. You can have five PCs surrounding one tiny goblins and take a crack shot at the goblin at no penalty under standard Palladium rules.

correct.

although if they missed in that situation i'd sure as hell say they'd hit one of their pals instead