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Looking to make a Lord Magus for an encounter with my group and it needs very high SDC so that at conversion to MDC at 8th level they have lots of MDC.

Whats a good race to use that has hundreds of SDC but is not considered an MD race?

Look at some of the candidates in PFRPG.


Since Rifts doesn't deal with SDC all that much, they haven't really focused on creating SDC-intensive creatures; conversely, since PFRPG deals exclusively in SDC, there are scads of bruisers in that realm who have SDC by the truckload.


Isn't the Aliens Unlimited module an SDC-only setting as well??

Lyvorrk

Ajax wrote:Cyclops 3d6x100 SDC on rifts earth. With the added benefit of being immune to lightning and half damage from other energy attacks like lasers.

These are not MD creatures on RIFTS???? Wth?

RT1 Zentradie

I consider (and any GM who doesn't in my opinion is foolish) high SDC races (i.e. anything with a X100) to be a minor Mega Damage creature, because they are really, and therefore not eligible to be a Lord Magus.

Rogue_Scientist wrote:

Dr. Doom III wrote:I consider (and any GM who doesn't in my opinion is foolish) high SDC races (i.e. anything with a X100) to me a minor Mega Damage creature, because they are really, and therefore not eligible to be a Lord Magus.

Worth saying again.

Imo, this was a pretty bad idea to begin with. Challenge your players in other ways.

Thanks for this input also. But I dont think that a human (or any creature/structure) with 101 SDC/HP added up is a MDC being(structure) and I think that any GM that does is foolish.

That said I could see how some would like to think that just because something can survive a small amount of MD makes it a MDC structure. This is simply untrue. The books make it very clear that some things just have a HUGE amount of SDC and are therefore able to survive MD but still are SDC.

The differnce is specifically that if one is a SDC being/structure then many many small SD attacks will eventually wear you down to nothing while a true MDC being/structure will shrug off any SD attack less than 100 SD in a single hit. (IIRC RUE changed this somewhat but I don't play by RUE rules)

So that 400 SDC a jeap or a Amaki stone man has is really 4 MDC and they will shrug off a 100 seperate 50 SDC attacks?
I think not. They will be at 0 SDC after only 8x50 so they are NOT MDC structures. If you want to play them as such that OK by me buts its not canon (pre RUE) and its certainly not logical by what canon (again pre RUE) says about MDC vs SDC structures.

Dr. Doom III wrote:I consider (and any GM who doesn't in my opinion is foolish) high SDC races (i.e. anything with a X100) to me a minor Mega Damage creature, because they are really, and therefore not eligible to be a Lord Magus.

No, the defining point of an Mega Damage creature is the inability to harm them with mundane weapons. Such races as those can be, ergo, not MDC by any sane definition. To claim otherwise is foolish

Nekira Sudacne wrote:No, the defining point of an Mega Damage creature is the inability to harm them with mundane weapons. Such races as those can be, ergo, not MDC by any sane definition. To claim otherwise is foolish

I didn't claim that.
I said they were Minor Mega Damage Creatures not Mega Damage Creatures.

That does not include humans or anything else that has more than 100sdc. That's just creatures with a X100 modifier or more to their SDC or HP base.

amaki. south america 2. nuff said.

Ajax wrote:If I remember correctly the various magus classes mearly state you can't be a supernatural creature. It doesn't state you can't be an MDC creature. Case in point, MercTown has a magic college. On the board of said college is a Titan Battle Magus, titans on rifts earth are MDC creatures.

Nope for the LORD MAGUS it says SDC mortal being only... I'm willing to streatch either of those to some extent if I have to But I would prefer to keep it completely book legal if possible, and with all of the various examples posted I will not have to violate the rules.

Dr. Doom III wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:No, the defining point of an Mega Damage creature is the inability to harm them with mundane weapons. Such races as those can be, ergo, not MDC by any sane definition. To claim otherwise is foolish

I didn't claim that.
I said they were Minor Mega Damage Creatures not Mega Damage Creatures.

That does not include humans or anything else that has more than 100sdc. That's just creatures with a X100 modifier or more to their SDC or HP base.

Dont waffle. Are they SDC beings or are they MDC beings?

IF you count them as MDC beings for the purposes of preventing them from being certain classes then you should also give them the benefit of being a MDC being which is the fact that they will shrug off all SDC attacks of less than 100 SDC in a single blow. I dont see how you can have it one way for purposes of class and then justify the other by saying they still take damage from SDC strikes of less than 100. You cannot have it both ways IMO.

Again

Simply being capable of surviving a single point of MD (or even a hand full) does not make a being/structure MDC even "minor MDC" whatever that means... IMO or by canon. It simply means they are an SDC being/structure that can take a big wollop (ie 100's of SDC in one hit) and not die/be destroyed.

Thinyser wrote:

Dr. Doom III wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:No, the defining point of an Mega Damage creature is the inability to harm them with mundane weapons. Such races as those can be, ergo, not MDC by any sane definition. To claim otherwise is foolish

I didn't claim that.
I said they were Minor Mega Damage Creatures not Mega Damage Creatures.

That does not include humans or anything else that has more than 100sdc. That's just creatures with a X100 modifier or more to their SDC or HP base.

Dont waffle. Are they SDC beings or are they MDC beings?

I didn't waffle. Can you show where I wasn't consistent?
You've never seen the term minor mega damage creature in a book? I guess you weren't looking hard enough.

Dr. Doom III wrote:

Thinyser wrote:

Dr. Doom III wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:No, the defining point of an Mega Damage creature is the inability to harm them with mundane weapons. Such races as those can be, ergo, not MDC by any sane definition. To claim otherwise is foolish

I didn't claim that.
I said they were Minor Mega Damage Creatures not Mega Damage Creatures.

That does not include humans or anything else that has more than 100sdc. That's just creatures with a X100 modifier or more to their SDC or HP base.

Dont waffle. Are they SDC beings or are they MDC beings?

I didn't waffle. Can you show where I wasn't consistent?
You've never seen the term minor mega damage creature in a book? I guess you weren't looking hard enough.

Yes I have seen it BUT the term means NOTHING more than its an SDC creature with SO MUCH SDC that it can survive a small amount of MD. PERIOD They are not MDC creatures for any purpose. They simply have HUGE ammounts of SDC compaird to most other SDC creatures and so can therefore take a main body hit from a MD weapon and possibly survive where a creature with less than 100 SDC could not.

You are waffling because you are saying they are MDC for purposes of preventing them from being a certain class but that they are not real MDC so they can still be harmed by less than 100 SD damage in a single strike.

So Answer this: Are they SDC creatures or MDC creatures? Because those are the only two destinctions that canon has rules for... there is no seperate ruleset that applys to SDC creatures that have more than 100 SDC.

Dr. Doom III wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:No, the defining point of an Mega Damage creature is the inability to harm them with mundane weapons. Such races as those can be, ergo, not MDC by any sane definition. To claim otherwise is foolish

I didn't claim that.
I said they were Minor Mega Damage Creatures not Mega Damage Creatures.

That does not include humans or anything else that has more than 100sdc. That's just creatures with a X100 modifier or more to their SDC or HP base.

The book say they are the equivlent of a minor mega damage being, not that they ARE that.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Dr. Doom III wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:No, the defining point of an Mega Damage creature is the inability to harm them with mundane weapons. Such races as those can be, ergo, not MDC by any sane definition. To claim otherwise is foolish

I didn't claim that.
I said they were Minor Mega Damage Creatures not Mega Damage Creatures.

That does not include humans or anything else that has more than 100sdc. That's just creatures with a X100 modifier or more to their SDC or HP base.

The book say they are the equivlent of a minor mega damage being, not that they ARE that.

Which is close enough for me and anyone who wants to avoid munchkinism not to allow it.

gadrin wrote:Munchkinism in Rifts which is a game with no balance is sorta like finding a four leaf clover, they exist, but it's hard to
tell them apart from the others at first glance.

Some are obvious, but others less so, once you allow things like HU characters to enter the Rifts game without any
modifications.

Something that has a few hundred MDC isn't too outrageous in my estimation of Rifts, especially once you get into
Phase World. Fighting some of the bigger demons and such is very tough as they often have multiples of 100s
and usually lots of PPE or ISP or other things that make them equally formidable.

If the GM wants one guy to give a group a hard time, then I don't see it being something average and off-the-shelf
from the books. You can always take a normal SDC creature with an average amount of SDC and convert it to MDC
then give him Sploog Medallions of Armor and other things to beef him up above normal.

The other thing is NPCs can break the rules, so...what's the big deal ?

Lord Magus with 3000 MDC is dumb, something with 400 or 500 is a night's entertainment.

>

Thanks Gadrin.

I was thinking in the 1000-1500 MDC range actually, and while this may seem dumb or munchy at first you have to understand he will be the encounter for a party with a dragon, godling, & t-archer (all 7th level) with a combined MDC of 1594 (without protective magics of which they have plenty)... and a whole lot more attacks per melee combined that one single Lord Magus would have.

This is a tough, and smart, group. They use their spells/psionics to maximum advantage (CoA & Magic net as well as Fleetfeet are some of their favorites) and know how to really work/fight together as a group.

To be honest a single foe, even with a stupid huge amount of MDC like 3000, and slew of spells to hurl with a large PPE pool to draw from, is almost certainly doomed going against this group. I hope to give them a good fight but I'm not expecting to kill them.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

I think that I have settled on the cyclops with his 3d6x100 for an average of 1100 SDC to start, add 8 levels, convert to MDC, and call it 1200 MDC. I also decided on this because he can have a stock of the lightning bolt weapons to offset the range advantage of the T-archer.

What do you think?

Dr. Doom III wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:No, the defining point of an Mega Damage creature is the inability to harm them with mundane weapons. Such races as those can be, ergo, not MDC by any sane definition. To claim otherwise is foolish

I didn't claim that.
I said they were Minor Mega Damage Creatures not Mega Damage Creatures.

That does not include humans or anything else that has more than 100 sdc. That's just creatures with a X100 modifier or more to their SDC or HP base.

I do believe that the term is "Equivalent" to minor MDC beings.

It occurs to me that making an SDC character into an MDC creature poses problems with healing. Does the Lord Magus get any kind of regeneration ability? Otherwise, if this "ordinary"
MDC creature gets really banged up in a fight, it might take him MONTHS to recover. Most psionic healing only cures SDC, and the Super Psionics that heal MDC are prohibitively expensive to use dozens (or even hundreds) of times after a fight. Spells of the healing variety suffer similar restrictions. This guy would be a glass fortress... tough to break, but impossible to put back together.

filo_clarke wrote:It occurs to me that making an SDC character into an MDC creature poses problems with healing. Does the Lord Magus get any kind of regeneration ability? Otherwise, if this "ordinary"
MDC creature gets really banged up in a fight, it might take him MONTHS to recover. Most psionic healing only cures SDC, and the Super Psionics that heal MDC are prohibitively expensive to use dozens (or even hundreds) of times after a fight. Spells of the healing variety suffer similar restrictions. This guy would be a glass fortress... tough to break, but impossible to put back together.

Yes they do (2d6/minute) but even if they did not it would still heal 2 MDC per day of rest. Any MDC creature that does not regen still heals MDC. Its not as if they have to heal 2 SDC/day for 50 days to get 1 MDC point back.

Thinyser wrote:

filo_clarke wrote:It occurs to me that making an SDC character into an MDC creature poses problems with healing. Does the Lord Magus get any kind of regeneration ability? Otherwise, if this "ordinary"
MDC creature gets really banged up in a fight, it might take him MONTHS to recover. Most psionic healing only cures SDC, and the Super Psionics that heal MDC are prohibitively expensive to use dozens (or even hundreds) of times after a fight. Spells of the healing variety suffer similar restrictions. This guy would be a glass fortress... tough to break, but impossible to put back together.

Yes they do (2d6/minute) but even if they did not it would still heal 2 MDC per day of rest. Any MDC creature that does not regen still heals MDC. Its not as if they have to heal 2 SDC/day for 50 days to get 1 MDC point back.

What I was getting at was if the character didn't gain any regeneration, then after a particularly gruesome fight, they would have to recuperate normally to regain 1,800 MDC. At 2 MDC per day of rest, that would only take them 900 days of rest to heal. No? So without regeneration a character like this would potentially need up to two and a half years to recuperate from a fight that lasted two and a half minutes. So I appreciate your explanation of the SDC/MDC conversion, but it by no means makes the situation perfect. Frankly, even at 2D6 per minute of regeneration it would take them an average of 250 minutes (4 hours) to recover. That's a pretty big deal for someone with even that level of regenerative abilities.

filo_clarke wrote:

Thinyser wrote:

filo_clarke wrote:It occurs to me that making an SDC character into an MDC creature poses problems with healing. Does the Lord Magus get any kind of regeneration ability? Otherwise, if this "ordinary"
MDC creature gets really banged up in a fight, it might take him MONTHS to recover. Most psionic healing only cures SDC, and the Super Psionics that heal MDC are prohibitively expensive to use dozens (or even hundreds) of times after a fight. Spells of the healing variety suffer similar restrictions. This guy would be a glass fortress... tough to break, but impossible to put back together.

Yes they do (2d6/minute) but even if they did not it would still heal 2 MDC per day of rest. Any MDC creature that does not regen still heals MDC. Its not as if they have to heal 2 SDC/day for 50 days to get 1 MDC point back.

What I was getting at was if the character didn't gain any regeneration, then after a particularly gruesome fight, they would have to recuperate normally to regain 1,800 MDC. At 2 MDC per day of rest, that would only take them 900 days of rest to heal. No? So without regeneration a character like this would potentially need up to two and a half years to recuperate from a fight that lasted two and a half minutes. So I appreciate your explanation of the SDC/MDC conversion, but it by no means makes the situation perfect. Frankly, even at 2D6 per minute of regeneration it would take them an average of 250 minutes (4 hours) to recover. That's a pretty big deal for someone with even that level of regenerative abilities.

You are correct it would take an exceptionally long time to recouperate from that much damage but just be glad you had that much damage soaking capabilites in the first place!

Dr. Doom III wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Dr. Doom III wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:No, the defining point of an Mega Damage creature is the inability to harm them with mundane weapons. Such races as those can be, ergo, not MDC by any sane definition. To claim otherwise is foolish

I didn't claim that.
I said they were Minor Mega Damage Creatures not Mega Damage Creatures.

That does not include humans or anything else that has more than 100sdc. That's just creatures with a X100 modifier or more to their SDC or HP base.

The book say they are the equivlent of a minor mega damage being, not that they ARE that.

Which is close enough for me and anyone who wants to avoid munchkinism not to allow it.

You want to not allow it then don't allow it. Don't fool yourself into thinking it's offical, however.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:You want to not allow it then don't allow it. Don't fool yourself into thinking it's offical, however.

I never said it was.
Should it be? Yep.

Thinyser wrote:

Ajax wrote:Cyclops 3d6x100 SDC on rifts earth. With the added benefit of being immune to lightning and half damage from other energy attacks like lasers.

These are not MD creatures on RIFTS???? Wth?

New conversion made them m.d.c only on rifts earth. can't remeber but low like 20 or 50 M.D.C.


I as sad to see my temporal wizard cyclops with giant and or lifeward and magical ad rush(for x3 S.D.C.).

Ziggurat the Eternal wrote:amaki. south america 2. nuff said.

Agreed, not only do they get nasty amounts of SDC/HPs which change to MDC that will number in the thousands, they have very good natural strength and take half damage from all physical attacks and are at the very least a minor psionic.

Anthar wrote:

Ziggurat the Eternal wrote:amaki. south america 2. nuff said.

Agreed, not only do they get nasty amounts of SDC/HPs which change to MDC that will number in the thousands, they have very good natural strength and take half damage from all physical attacks and are at the very least a minor psionic.

This was my second choice after hearing about all the others and picking the Cyclops.

They and the Amaki have about the same SDC/HP and they take no damage from electricity and 1/2 from all other energy.

All though they dont have a high chance of psionics they do have the standard chance and I actually rolled 15% and got 2 psi powers. I picked mask PPE & mask ISP as his two, that way he can cast an illusion on himself that will make him look human then use these two powers and nobody can sense his vast PPE or above normal though small ISP pools.

To top it off he can make his own lightning javelins which helps to offset the range advantage of the party's T-archer.

I've equipped him with A ring of fleet feet to double his attacks, boots of fleetness because he was really slow, waterskin of much water Which at 6 galons per day is probably just enough to meet the daily need of a 18 foot tall giant, quill of endless ink, Magic staff (6d6 MD because its 15' long instead of 5') which shoots 3d6+3 MDC ligtning bolts 3 times/day & is a Dragon slayer so 2X damage to the dragon, Full suit of MDC monster hide armor with 250 main body MDC and to cap it all off a P-field defensive field built in to the armor with 20 extra batteries.

With the p-field on he would only take 1/20th damage from energy attacks (1/10 damage is further cut in half by his natrual energy resistance) and only 1/10th from physical (ie projectile) ranged attacks. Since he has 1286 MDC thats 12,860 to 25,000+ effective MDC against any ranged attacks.

Thinyser wrote:

Anthar wrote:

Ziggurat the Eternal wrote:amaki. south america 2. nuff said.

Agreed, not only do they get nasty amounts of SDC/HPs which change to MDC that will number in the thousands, they have very good natural strength and take half damage from all physical attacks and are at the very least a minor psionic.

This was my second choice after hearing about all the others and picking the Cyclops.

They and the Amaki have about the same SDC/HP and they take no damage from electricity and 1/2 from all other energy.

All though they dont have a high chance of psionics they do have the standard chance and I actually rolled 15% and got 2 psi powers. I picked mask PPE & mask ISP as his two, that way he can cast an illusion on himself that will make him look human then use these two powers and nobody can sense his vast PPE or above normal though small ISP pools.

To top it off he can make his own lightning javelins which helps to offset the range advantage of the party's T-archer.

I've equipped him with A ring of fleet feet to double his attacks, boots of fleetness because he was really slow, waterskin of much water Which at 6 galons per day is probably just enough to meet the daily need of a 18 foot tall giant, quill of endless ink, Magic staff (6d6 MD because its 15' long instead of 5') which shoots 3d6+3 MDC ligtning bolts 3 times/day & is a Dragon slayer so 2X damage to the dragon, Full suit of MDC monster hide armor with 250 main body MDC and to cap it all off a P-field defensive field built in to the armor with 20 extra batteries.

With the p-field on he would only take 1/20th damage from energy attacks (1/10 damage is further cut in half by his natrual energy resistance) and only 1/10th from physical (ie projectile) ranged attacks. Since he has 1286 MDC thats 12,860 to 25,000+ effective MDC against any ranged attacks.

Only that Cyclops are now MDC creatures with the revised conversion book.

Tyciol wrote:

I wonder if the reason the giants were made MDC is because of the plethora of SDC>MDC spells/abilities that appeared through all the sourcebooks. Even so, it's much less unbalancing to have giants with godly amounts of MDC than to have human-sized Amaki who take half-damage and are duelist gizmoteers and stuff.

They probably changed it to give your average unaugmented Cyclops a bit more of a fighting chance considering that anyone with a little energy pistol or vibro-sword could kill one in one strike.