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Negalith wrote:Why does Rifts have "Giant Robots"? I dont mean in terms of genra. I love the things. They fit in well. I wonder about the term "giant robots". Everything about Rifts is cool, but with all the potentail names,... Why "giant robots". Battleoids. Mecha, .... Whatever.. ?

I'm curious if folks here have a cooler sounding title for the walking wonders of mechanical death we all love so much.

Try Mobile Suits, Walking Tanks,

Because Giant Robots are a part of Robotech and the mechanics were already there when they came up with Rifts. So it was easy to add Giant Robots and retain Palladium's previous fanbase.

Negalith wrote:Why does Rifts have "Giant Robots"? I dont mean in terms of genra. I love the things. They fit in well. I wonder about the term "giant robots". Everything about Rifts is cool, but with all the potentail names,... Why "giant robots". Battleoids. Mecha, .... Whatever.. ?

I'm curious if folks here have a cooler sounding title for the walking wonders of mechanical death we all love so much.

well it is actually over compesating some thing some where...........

I've never actually seen giant robots referred to as giant robots in Rifts; it's always "robot vehicle."

Negalith wrote:

thedrunk wrote:

Negalith wrote:Why does Rifts have "Giant Robots"? I dont mean in terms of genra. I love the things. They fit in well. I wonder about the term "giant robots". Everything about Rifts is cool, but with all the potentail names,... Why "giant robots". Battleoids. Mecha, .... Whatever.. ?

I'm curious if folks here have a cooler sounding title for the walking wonders of mechanical death we all love so much.

well it is actually over compesating some thing some where...........

Dont get me started on the Rifts groin cannon phenomina.

Rifts: where women really mean..."Is that a plasma cannon or are just happy to see me?"

Seriously,

the real good concepts are all used. and as humanoids we ALL understand tech to some degree.

Balabanto wrote:Because Giant Robots are a part of Robotech and the mechanics were already there when they came up with Rifts. So it was easy to add Giant Robots and retain Palladium's previous fanbase.

What mechanics? A damage-scaling rule and some robot piloting equivalents to hand-to-hand combat skills? Palladium didn't exactly bust a nut coming up with that

And besides, giant robots aren't there because they already had giant robot rules, they're there because they wanted a badass SF-meets-magic RPG, and giant robots are inherently badass.

Because 'Giant ROBO' sounds so silly...

I do find the lack of miniaturisation in Rifts interesting - as in, somewhat odd.

rearnakedchoke wrote:

Natasha wrote:I do find the lack of miniaturisation in Rifts interesting - as in, somewhat odd.

Hey! It's not the size that matters it's how you use it!

And bigger isn't always better (believe it or not); especially when you're a giant.......robot.

Haven't you seen Empire Strikes Back?!

rearnakedchoke wrote:No actually I haven't seen any but A New Hope. Didn't like it that much and from what I've seen on previews and hear from others, don't think I'd like the rest of them.

Well I can respect that. The moral of one of the battles is that the bigger you, the further you fall. Unless you're the Death Star, then you just blow up, but you saw that in A New Hope.

Of course, the lack of weapons guidance in Rifts does help explain the size of things I guess. But that's part of what I have found interesting, that there isn't comparatively low tech guidance in Rifts, what with all the high tech weaponised hand-held laser emitters.....

Because everything is cooler with Giant Robots.

Natasha wrote:

rearnakedchoke wrote:No actually I haven't seen any but A New Hope. Didn't like it that much and from what I've seen on previews and hear from others, don't think I'd like the rest of them.

Well I can respect that. The moral of one of the battles is that the bigger you, the further you fall. Unless you're the Death Star, then you just blow up, but you saw that in A New Hope.

Of course, the lack of weapons guidance in Rifts does help explain the size of things I guess. But that's part of what I have found interesting, that there isn't comparatively low tech guidance in Rifts, what with all the high tech weaponised hand-held laser emitters.....

The same reason most sci fi (inclusing Star Wars and Star Trek) has humans controlling guns by hand, when in that sort of tech environment, they could have either mental control (like we're inventing now) or just have automated turrets that hone in on whatever target you say to smash. Drama.

Danger wrote:Because everything is cooler with Giant Robots.

Okay, maybe not death...getting stomped to a bloody pulp lacks dignity, but that's because you LACK a Giant Robot of your own...

Overlord Rikonius wrote:

Natasha wrote:

rearnakedchoke wrote:No actually I haven't seen any but A New Hope. Didn't like it that much and from what I've seen on previews and hear from others, don't think I'd like the rest of them.

Well I can respect that. The moral of one of the battles is that the bigger you, the further you fall. Unless you're the Death Star, then you just blow up, but you saw that in A New Hope.

Of course, the lack of weapons guidance in Rifts does help explain the size of things I guess. But that's part of what I have found interesting, that there isn't comparatively low tech guidance in Rifts, what with all the high tech weaponised hand-held laser emitters.....

The same reason most sci fi (inclusing Star Wars and Star Trek) has humans controlling guns by hand, when in that sort of tech environment, they could have either mental control (like we're inventing now) or just have automated turrets that hone in on whatever target you say to smash. Drama.

No. Drama is trying to lay Princess Lea. Don't get me started on laser rifles and pistols..

taalismn wrote:

Danger wrote:Because everything is cooler with Giant Robots.

Okay, maybe not death...getting stomped to a bloody pulp lacks dignity, but that's because you LACK a Giant Robot of your own...

Being stomped to death by a Giant Robot is cooler than just dying.

Honestly, I'm not a big fan of the giant robots for the one reason that they seem to take over the role of tanks, when tanks themselves are actually a much better tactical vehicle then a giant robot. For one, a tank will always be capable of having more armor then a giant robot due to the structure of a bot. Second, tanks should be able to house a more powerful main weapon and secondary weapon then a giant robot for the same reason they can have more armor.

Now giant robots do have their uses, such as being able to construct buildings faster, and certain types of bots could be viable for various tactical uses due to their ability to move on just about any terrain (mobile anti air units would be excellent in mountainous terrain, where there is lots of cover and the bots can move virtually unimpeded from slope to slope), and exoskeleton armors are a brilliant idea for giving soldiers more protection on the go.

Here is my two cents cause they didn't want to think up a cool name and then have to pay to copyright it

Natasha wrote:I do find the lack of miniaturisation in Rifts interesting - as in, somewhat odd.

Rifts is full of miniaturization. Miniaturization must be why its possible to build handheld weapons for infantrymen that are better than the big tank-gun sized cannons that are strapped onto giant robots!

Well, miniaturization or lazy writers making stuff up as they go in a game where game balance is a myth. Take your pick

Danger wrote:

taalismn wrote:

Danger wrote:Because everything is cooler with Giant Robots.

Okay, maybe not death...getting stomped to a bloody pulp lacks dignity, but that's because you LACK a Giant Robot of your own...

Being stomped to death by a Giant Robot is cooler than just dying.

Ha, love it. Siggged....

I wouldn't fret on it too much. Actually, "in" the Rifts world, most robots would be called by their names/model most likely. A lay-person may call it a giant robot, because it is a giant robot, just like if a person who knew nothing about planes saw an SR-71 parked at the local mall, may tell everyone they know about a giant airplane parked at the mall. Meanwhile, anyone who knows what the heck and SR-71 is, would never call it a giant airplane, even though it is.

For description purposes, its because that is quite literally what it is. Now if they were named Giant Robot 1™ and Giant Robot 2™ etc... then I could see it being a little odd. Hehe

Greyaxe wrote:

Danger wrote:

taalismn wrote:

Danger wrote:Because everything is cooler with Giant Robots.

Okay, maybe not death...getting stomped to a bloody pulp lacks dignity, but that's because you LACK a Giant Robot of your own...

Being stomped to death by a Giant Robot is cooler than just dying.

Ha, love it. Siggged....

You're welcome.

because you can't run screaming from giant killer robots without giant robots, duh. you're so silly.

Plus, as we all know, he who has giant killer robots, Wins.

The only real answer here is "the Rule of Cool". Giant robots don't actually make any tactical sense, realistically considered, but by golly they're awesome anyway.

Overlord Rikonius wrote:The same reason most sci fi (inclusing Star Wars and Star Trek) has humans controlling guns by hand, when in that sort of tech environment, they could have either mental control (like we're inventing now) or just have automated turrets that hone in on whatever target you say to smash. Drama.

How do you know that tech is within their expertise?

Keep in mind this was a republic ruled over by Jedi who probably wanted to monopolize mentally controlling things so they would probably suppress development of such technologies. As for automated turrets, what do you call droids?

Negalith wrote:Dont get me started on the Rifts groin cannon phenomina.

Don't get me started on the "Zetsurin Buster" manga.

taalismn wrote:Because 'Giant ROBO' sounds so silly...

It does NOT.

Qev wrote:The only real answer here is "the Rule of Cool". Giant robots don't actually make any tactical sense, realistically considered, but by golly they're awesome anyway.

According to the MIT Muscle Wire experiments (And I know a guy who was in on them), I guarantee that you are wrong. Giant Robots are highly feasible, it's just that most of the guidance and balance systems aren't quite there yet.

Balabanto wrote:

Qev wrote:The only real answer here is "the Rule of Cool". Giant robots don't actually make any tactical sense, realistically considered, but by golly they're awesome anyway.

According to the MIT Muscle Wire experiments (And I know a guy who was in on them), I guarantee that you are wrong. Giant Robots are highly feasible, it's just that most of the guidance and balance systems aren't quite there yet.

Oh, it's nothing to do with actually building the robots. We'll get the tech figured out in fairly short order I'm sure. But compared to non-humanoid military vehicles built with the same technological development, all they do is make themselves huge targets. There's basically no military application for a giant robot vehicle other than "target practice".

See, the problem with large humanoid robots is that they don't really have much of a role. If you can build an armed, armored large robot, you can build an even better armed, armored conventional vehicle that has none of the robot's disadvantages. It will have more room for weapons and ammunition, a higher carry weight for armor, a faster travel speed over pretty much any terrain, and probably the most important, vastly lower ground pressure. Also, giant robots would stick out like a sore thumb, make enormous targets, and their very design would severely hamper the effectiveness of their armor, regardless of how tough it was, ie. lots and lots of articulated joints.

Powered armor would allow regular human troops to carry more gear for longer, would make them more combat-survivable, and allow them to carry heavier weapons, which makes it a pretty useable idea. You could I suppose build human-scale robotic troops, but even then you might as well use something tracked or wheeled or flying; simpler to engineer, simpler to operate, less to go wrong.

But giant military robots are damn cool.

What annoys me the most, apart from the genital-mouted guns on some of the pictures is that there are rifles and pistols that will do more damage than weapons that are mounted on these things.

The only reason to use a giant robot is the added MDC and target sensors, imho. I prefer power armors over giant robots.

And yes, the name "Giant Robot" sounds dull, misleading (they are not robots like skelbots, they are just a humanoid sized vehicle) and unimaginative. My group used to say mechs or battlemechs. But as that name is copyrighted by a company that makes cooler mechs that i have seen in any RIFTS book, PB is not allowed to use it.

If he did, he would see a lawsuit coming his way, just as he tried when he tried to sue that Rifts MMO.

Dunia wrote:What annoys me the most, apart from the genital-mouted guns on some of the pictures is that there are rifles and pistols that will do more damage than weapons that are mounted on these things.

Only some of the light, secondary vehicle mounted weapons. We've beaten that horse to death, and debunked it quite thoroughly.

The only reason to use a giant robot is the added MDC and target sensors, imho. I prefer power armors over giant robots.

And range, payload, multiple crew, missiles, heavier weapons, etc. An entire thread about a single IAR-3 absolutely crushing 4 fairly high-end power armors. Again, beaten to death.

And yes, the name "Giant Robot" sounds dull, misleading (they are not robots like skelbots, they are just a humanoid sized vehicle) and unimaginative. My group used to say mechs or battlemechs. But as that name is copyrighted by a company that makes cooler mechs that i have seen in any RIFTS book, PB is not allowed to use it.

If he did, he would see a lawsuit coming his way, just as he tried when he tried to sue that Rifts MMO.

We'll call that a difference of opinion in art styles, then, because to me the Mechs in Battletech are fugly near-Lego-block levels of bad. Those that aren't stolen directly from Studio Nue's far superior Macross, anyway.

Qev wrote:See, the problem with large humanoid robots is that they don't really have much of a role. If you can build an armed, armored large robot, you can build an even better armed, armored conventional vehicle that has none of the robot's disadvantages.

And none of it's advantages.

It will have more room for weapons and ammunition, a higher carry weight for armor, a faster travel speed over pretty much any terrain, and probably the most important, vastly lower ground pressure.

Entirely depends on the surface area of the way the vehicle interracts with the ground; a tank with tracks and a robot with large feet probably have nearly identical ground pressure. The difference is that when a tank gets stuck in mud, it needs a special tow truck to pull it out. A robot is likely to be able to pull itself out. Also, while a tank or other vehicle might have faster travel speed over any terrain on which it cant ravel, it certainly isnt going to say.. climb a mountainside... yet Triax has vehicles which can do just that. ANother major advantage of robots? Dodging. A tank cant sidestep an incoming laser blast; it can maybe make an evade attempt if it is already moving along at a clip, but a robot can be standing still and jump out of the way just like a human can. It can also parry incoming melee attacks from a giant opponent, and defend itself in melee combat. Payload is largely irrelevant for most weapons used by both vehicles, as energy weapons on large vehicles tend to be tied into large reactors, rendering that point moot.

I'm not saying tanks are completely useless or bad. They aren't, but there's also a very good argument to be made for them, particularly in the world of Rifts. Tanks still have a role to fill (cheaper to produce, great for supporting infantry) and are still used by the major powers that can afford to field both. If they cant afford to field both - robots can fill both roles.

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:

Qev wrote:See, the problem with large humanoid robots is that they don't really have much of a role. If you can build an armed, armored large robot, you can build an even better armed, armored conventional vehicle that has none of the robot's disadvantages.

And none of it's advantages.

It will have more room for weapons and ammunition, a higher carry weight for armor, a faster travel speed over pretty much any terrain, and probably the most important, vastly lower ground pressure.

Entirely depends on the surface area of the way the vehicle interracts with the ground; a tank with tracks and a robot with large feet probably have nearly identical ground pressure. The difference is that when a tank gets stuck in mud, it needs a special tow truck to pull it out. A robot is likely to be able to pull itself out. Also, while a tank or other vehicle might have faster travel speed over any terrain on which it cant ravel, it certainly isnt going to say.. climb a mountainside... yet Triax has vehicles which can do just that. ANother major advantage of robots? Dodging. A tank cant sidestep an incoming laser blast; it can maybe make an evade attempt if it is already moving along at a clip, but a robot can be standing still and jump out of the way just like a human can. It can also parry incoming melee attacks from a giant opponent, and defend itself in melee combat. Payload is largely irrelevant for most weapons used by both vehicles, as energy weapons on large vehicles tend to be tied into large reactors, rendering that point moot.

I'm not saying tanks are completely useless or bad. They aren't, but there's also a very good argument to be made for them, particularly in the world of Rifts. Tanks still have a role to fill (cheaper to produce, great for supporting infantry) and are still used by the major powers that can afford to field both. If they cant afford to field both - robots can fill both roles.

What about Hover tanks and hover artillery. They are faster, and probably much more maneuverable than a giant robot. Sure a hover tank can dodge out of the way by a maneuver just like a power armor, robot, helicopter can. And they will not get stuck in mud.

They also cant climb steep hills and mountains, either. Like i said, im not poo-pooing tanks - merely the idea that Robots are somehow ALWAYS going to be out-done by tanks.

Also, the moment you add a hover system, you're jacking the price of the tank up to near-robot levels without the added terrain versatility.

Actually hover tanks would have some terrain issues that even normal tanks don't have. Such as trying to fight on the side of a slope even a mild one is going to cause the hover tank to slide down the hill. Hover stuff is great for crossing open areas/swamps/lakes but any kind of hilly terrain is going to add even more issues for them than most other vehicles because gravity is a harsh mistress.

Robots and power armor are useful in some situations especially if they are as nimble as the rifts ones are. Any kind of rugged forested terrain/bogs/mountains/very sandy deserts are likely all more easily transversed by a robot than a tank. That said power armor is a much better concept if it could be done. You are a man sized or near man sized target which makes you a lot harder to hit than any normal armored vehicle. You can slip through forests and even inside buildings/fortifications and other things that no tank would even dream of being able to enter. It is one reason even now the US army is VERY interested in powered/unpowered exoskeletons which is the first step to power armor the biggest hurdle at the moment is really a viable power supply for them. If that can hurdle can be jumped then we would likely see combat exoskeletons pretty fast.

The main reason to still use robots, even with power armor available is for truly heavy weapons (long and medium range missiles, heavy laser and particle beam weapons with ranges north of two miles) - fire support vehicles, basically, and, in a world like Rifts, as a counter to giant supernatural menaces.

Guys in power armor are chaff in hand-to-hand with a dragon. A robot like an IAR-3 can stand a chance, or at least defend itself enough that the other elements of the army can bring the dragon down.

Yes that is a big advantage. In a world where there are huge super natural creatures that are exceptionally good at hand to hand combat a tank is nearly defenseless if the critter survies to get into hand to hand combat with it. Once you get onto the tank you will be lucky if any weapon system can shoot back. Power armor has at least some options and robot vehicles just due to their size can hold their own much better.

There was another long thread where i summarized why nation-states still use robots when, on paper, PA gets you much more weaponry/MDC per credit than robots. Basically, though, you're largely correct. Giant Robots are field-support platforms, and can spearhead an infantry assault on a fortified or entrenched enemy, as well.

Though they aren't exactly slouches in straight-up fights either. The example I provided showed that one giant robot could pretty handily trounce four modern mid-range PAs, and would stand a decent chance of standing up to even four high-end PAs and walking away from it intact with the PAs nothing but smoking rubble.

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:And none of it's advantages.

Entirely depends on the surface area of the way the vehicle interracts with the ground; a tank with tracks and a robot with large feet probably have nearly identical ground pressure. The difference is that when a tank gets stuck in mud, it needs a special tow truck to pull it out. A robot is likely to be able to pull itself out. Also, while a tank or other vehicle might have faster travel speed over any terrain on which it cant ravel, it certainly isnt going to say.. climb a mountainside... yet Triax has vehicles which can do just that. ANother major advantage of robots? Dodging. A tank cant sidestep an incoming laser blast; it can maybe make an evade attempt if it is already moving along at a clip, but a robot can be standing still and jump out of the way just like a human can. It can also parry incoming melee attacks from a giant opponent, and defend itself in melee combat. Payload is largely irrelevant for most weapons used by both vehicles, as energy weapons on large vehicles tend to be tied into large reactors, rendering that point moot.

I'm not saying tanks are completely useless or bad. They aren't, but there's also a very good argument to be made for them, particularly in the world of Rifts. Tanks still have a role to fill (cheaper to produce, great for supporting infantry) and are still used by the major powers that can afford to field both. If they cant afford to field both - robots can fill both roles.

Well, I was addressing the concept of giant robots done in "real life" (or something approximating it). But really, everything I've pointed out still stands. Any superawesome technology you include in the construction of a giant robot, you can include in a more conventional vehicle specialized for its role, and it will outperform any giant robot in that role.

I mean, if you've got the tech to make a 7-8 meter humanoid robot dodge incoming fire, you've very likely got the tech to make a conventional vehicle at least that hard to hit (mind you, dodging something that's already been fired at you is basically impossible, so again there's no real advantage to the robot). Unless your robot has utterly enormous feet relative to its size, it's going to have a higher ground pressure than a conventional vehicle, which is going to be a world of hurt, particularly in your mud example, and especially if you're expecting it to move like a human body - think of the forces it would be applying to relatively soft earth while trying to dive out of the way of something. Solid ground to us is going to be like banana peels or fresh-turned fields to a giant robot.

A multi-ton humanoid robot isn't going to be much more successful in climbing a mountainside than a tracked tank is, because it's going to have to find purchase, and then find purchase that isn't simply going to tear away from the mountainside with several extra tons of mass hanging from it on an oblique angle. In both cases you're better off going around or using an airlift or cable winch or something along those lines.

Conventional vehicles can still carry heavier armor, weapons, and reactors for the same volume, while having a much lower profile. A low-slung conventional tank can have sloped armor to deflect incoming fire and increase its effective thickness - something you can't really do with a vertically-standing humanoid shape. A humanoid robot is going to be covered in weak points, because fully-articulated joints are going to limit how armored those joints can be. A humanoid robot has a high center of gravity, making it much, much easier to knock over and thus render its weapons less effective - modern MBTs can survive (relatively-) nearby nuclear detonations provided they can find a low spot to hunker down in.

As for melee... well, conventional vehicles don't really do melee. But there's nothing stopping you from putting a big vibroblade on an articulated armature on your tank, if you really want to. Or a vibro-ram-prow to cut the legs off of an annoying robot. Or cable-net launchers to immobilize giant machines that rely on limbs to move. Or just running away while rotating its turret to fire behind it with absolutely no aim penalties because they're designed to do things like that.

Another way to put it: a human being is a pretty versatile animal, but one for one, a leopard is a better killer, a dolphin is a better swimmer, a bird is a better flier. Or, humans are good at things, but the specialized machines we build are much better at their roles than we are, and none of those machines look anything like us.

In Rifts (and most games involving such robots) all of these problems are just sort of handwaved away, or dealt with by some kind of fictionite material that for some reason doesn't apply to conventional vehicles (protoculture?). Because giant robots are cool. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Qev wrote:

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:And none of it's advantages.

Entirely depends on the surface area of the way the vehicle interracts with the ground; a tank with tracks and a robot with large feet probably have nearly identical ground pressure. The difference is that when a tank gets stuck in mud, it needs a special tow truck to pull it out. A robot is likely to be able to pull itself out. Also, while a tank or other vehicle might have faster travel speed over any terrain on which it cant ravel, it certainly isnt going to say.. climb a mountainside... yet Triax has vehicles which can do just that. ANother major advantage of robots? Dodging. A tank cant sidestep an incoming laser blast; it can maybe make an evade attempt if it is already moving along at a clip, but a robot can be standing still and jump out of the way just like a human can. It can also parry incoming melee attacks from a giant opponent, and defend itself in melee combat. Payload is largely irrelevant for most weapons used by both vehicles, as energy weapons on large vehicles tend to be tied into large reactors, rendering that point moot.

I'm not saying tanks are completely useless or bad. They aren't, but there's also a very good argument to be made for them, particularly in the world of Rifts. Tanks still have a role to fill (cheaper to produce, great for supporting infantry) and are still used by the major powers that can afford to field both. If they cant afford to field both - robots can fill both roles.

Well, I was addressing the concept of giant robots done in "real life" (or something approximating it).

So, you weren't addressing the topic at all, but rather some esoteric other topic you wanted to tackle. Gotcha. We're talking about robots in Rifts, not real life. In Rifts, Robots can and do do all of the things i've pointed out.

(protoculture?).

The first galaxy-spanning humanoid culture, not some retarded mystical weed. Variable Fighters use fusion plants, dont let Robotech's nonsense tell you otherwise.

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:So, you weren't addressing the topic at all, but rather some esoteric other topic you wanted to tackle. Gotcha. We're talking about robots in Rifts, not real life. In Rifts, Robots can and do do all of the things i've pointed out.

I think you missed the part where the question in the OP is "why are their giant robots?". My actual answer is "because giant robots are cool." The rest is me explaining why other explanations fall flat, and perhaps a little bit of my frustration of how more conventional vehicles always get the shaft when the big stompers are around.

The first galaxy-spanning humanoid culture, not some retarded mystical weed. Variable Fighters use fusion plants, dont let Robotech's nonsense tell you otherwise.

Um... Palladium made the Robotech RPG, remember?

Qev wrote:Um... Palladium made the Robotech RPG, remember?

Both versions of which are positively overflowing with errors. This error, however, is not on the part of Palladium, but rather the hack known as Carl Macek, who couldn't be bothered to get a real translator when he localized the three series that make up Robotech.

The Protoculture was the first galaxy spanning humanoid race in Macross, not some mystical weed that magically makes fusion go.

In the source material, Variable Fighters run on fusion plants (and the prototype VF-0 Phoenix used plain old jet fuel), not a mystical weed. Same with Hovertanks, AJACS, and M.O.S.P.E.A.D.A ride armor, though in the case of the 'Cyclone', its a fusion cell that works rather like a battery rather than a full-up reactor.

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:

Qev wrote:Um... Palladium made the Robotech RPG, remember?

Both versions of which are positively overflowing with errors. This error, however, is not on the part of Palladium, but rather the hack known as Carl Macek, who couldn't be bothered to get a real translator when he localized the three series that make up Robotech.

The Protoculture was the first galaxy spanning humanoid race in Macross, not some mystical weed that magically makes fusion go.

In the source material, Variable Fighters run on fusion plants (and the prototype VF-0 Phoenix used plain old jet fuel), not a mystical weed. Same with Hovertanks, AJACS, and M.O.S.P.E.A.D.A ride armor, though in the case of the 'Cyclone', its a fusion cell that works rather like a battery rather than a full-up reactor.

Oh, I know. I vastly prefer the mainstream Macross series over Robotech any day (unless it's Macross 7 *shudder*), but Robotech will still always have a special place in my heart 'cause I grew up with it. And to be fair to Mr. Macek, he didn't do a half-bad job of stitching together three completely unrelated shows with his own overarching storyline. Heck, Army of the Southern Cross was widely considered an improvement over the anime its scenes were taken from (well, among Western fans). But now we're really off-topic.

notafraid2die wrote:Has anyone ever noticed (particularly in Long's illustrations) Palladium's fascination with crotch cannons on their giant robots?

The really ironic thing is on a giant humanoid design a crotch cannon as amusing as it seems is actually a really good idea. The biggest problem for a giant robot is things getting under it up close. Given their design if infantry can get up under them many designs would be a serious threat and hard for the robot to respond to. Ye olde crotch cannon gives them the ability to shoot between their own legs which makes any blind spot there pretty minimal.

Pretty sure Palladium aren't the only folks who've done the 'crotch cannon' thing on robots. Gundam, Mazinger Z, Battletech... even AstroBoy had butt-guns.

why so few flying giant robots????? in a game of MakeBelieve that would be cool.

say652 wrote:why so few flying giant robots????? in a game of MakeBelieve that would be cool.

They are out there, but rare which makes sense as they would not be the best use of those resources as it is going to need a lot of extra power to fly, plus you have to contend with aerodynamics and wanting to keep weight down.

Those that come to mind:
1 in Sourcebook 1 (okay it's a detachable hovercraft section that might qualify, not sure if it's in Revised)
3 in Atlantis (D-D, K-ATV, Creax, plus a hoverbike that might count as flying, both transform)
1 in Triax1
1 in SA1, TA TW 'bot
2 in Japan
2 in SA2 with the "Turtle-ATV" in Silver Republics and 1 more in Arkhon,
2 at least in Triax2 that I know of
1 in Fed of Magic (Magic 'bot)
3 in CS War Tolkeen Series (TW IJs)
2 in DB2 (Kittani transformable, CAF 'bot)
1 in DB3 (Naruni, transformable)
1 in Canada/DoNA w/the Faire 'bot (more of a pod than a full 'bot, but it has arms)

epictechgeek wrote:I'd also like to see more TW Robot Vehicles made for reference, etc. They have alot of TW weapons, armors, and vehicles but I have yet to see a TW Robot Vehicle. Seems to be an obvious choice for TW.

The Iron Juggernauts in CS Tolkeen War series might qualify.
You also have the Glittermount in "New West" (TW A.I horse).
Magic piloted 'bots are found in Fed of Magic (less TW and more a variation on magic Golems)
You have "TW" PA suits produced by Atlantis (though I can't recall off hand about any full 'bots)
South America 1 has a TA "TW " PA and 'bot
South America 2 has a Magic PA suit to (not TW)
Rifts Main Book did have a TW Power Armor suit

The cost of the magic features could be prohibitive (recharge cost and allowing non-mages to use, etc) coupled with demand (even among mages).

Edit: I've edited this list a few times as I've found additional candidates.

so in designing a flying giant robot what would be an acceptable top speed? in H.U. its what ever you can afford but i want a megadamage flying giant robot. around 200 feet tall.

say652 wrote:so in designing a flying giant robot what would be an acceptable top speed? in H.U. its what ever you can afford but i want a megadamage flying giant robot. around 200 feet tall.

I don't think there is an acceptable top speed as the examples noted above range from a few hundred mph to over Mach 1. So basically it depends on how much raw thrust you want to make available (I know it isn't in stats).

If you make it transforming you can probably go even faster. Note transforming doesn't have to be the radical layout changes like in Transformers (or Robotech), but it could be something more small scale like KIT's super-persuit mode (in Knight Rider in the 80s) or MASK vehicles (also 80s).

The faster the brick, though, the worse the friction-heating, unless you have super-duper materials science protecting your 'bot, or some sort of forcefield barrier serving as an effective streamling and protective outer shell. Or maybe a disposable deployable outer hull(fast-set aerogel sprayed through a chemical dispersal system, maybe?). Or ballute shields. However, these systems are best when re-entering an artmosphere, bulky, and tend to get in the way of sensors and robotic limb movement.

Really, the way later-series Gundamsn, for example, yo-yo up and down through the atmosphere, Kira Yamato should have been reduced to a slowly-settling contrail of condensing metallic particles....

Only reason the Macross (true setting(s); not Hobotech's) VF's can get away with what they do INATMO, is due to 'Energy Conversion Armour'.
In "Reel fizzix" settings, the best a flying giant robot could go INATMO is prolly around 200 to 300 mph without burning brightly like a lightbulb fillament. Even then they'd be encoutering massive buffeting from air resistance.

So it's pretty much a given you'll just wanna ignore fizzix if you want your kewl pimped out multi-Mach flying mech to, y'know, be playable... otherwise the slide-rule brigade will whine and show you many graphs until you walk away from the table.

As for "Why Giant Robots?"
-ahem-

"CHICKS!
DIG!
GIANT ROBOTS!"
*Guitar solo riff*
"...nice!"