Forums of the Megaverse®

I love N&S myself but I have to wonder. With the creator now having passed to realms beyond, will Kev do anything with this game? I love it myself have for years. With my military experience it is a blast to play (when I can that is going full time to college isn't easy. But I would love to hear from the "horse mouth" on this one. I doubt I will but it would be nice. With things going not so good you think Kev might put the license put for grabs or at least give it an official heave ho.
It wouldn't take much to revive it. Like others have said a good supplement book would do. N&S core book only goes for at least around here $19.99 not much for a Rpg nowadays. And if he put just a little effort into an updating companion book for say $15.00 that probably would be a hit. Well I would like to see what Others have to say on that.

Excellent , that is what I am talking about !!! Bu yah!!

N&S is good for pulling a fast one on lazy rifts players and giving them a book legal NPC that can kick their asses but isn't S.Nat nor CoM.

It is also a good "I'm board with everybody having powers this and that" setting. Forbidding the players any MA form with any MA powers.

I personally love doing modern day stuff. It is so easy. just rip ideas from the news or just make stuff up in a real hot spot country not hard to do and it doesn't have to be from the usual areas either. You could even use the Atacama area of Chile. It still is by the Bolivian people considered part of the their homeland and they would love to reclaim it. I have a lot of other ideas but posting them might get the ire of some people not to mention the dept of homeland insecurity. But really modern day stuff isnt hard to do at all.

RPGs don't die until the last copy disintegrates.

True or they get folded into another game.

That would be very sad day very sad.

Mark Hall wrote:RPGs don't die until the last copy disintegrates.

I am getting one. Having it vacuum sealed for freshness....

well, yes and no. yes, it is "dead", it wont be updated, it wont be supported with new books. but at the same time it will continue to live on, as long as we still play it (or at least talk about it.

I would be happy to buy a new & improved edition. The game is excellent and could easily be expanded in interesting directions.

As a setting the game is probably dead in the water. However, the martial arts moves and other goodies are very handy, although relatively complex to deal with in most situations. The last game I played involved a semi-horror survival setting where we were dealing with a group of scientists that were creating biological weapons. Trust me, all the kung fu in the world doesn't help much against historically accurate raptors trained as attack dogs, though we did note that the attack patterns did bear resemblance to a number of leap in and leap out martial arts.

In any case, the spirit of the game lives on, just in different forms. Technically speaking, the palladium system is kind of dated in many aspects on it's own and my player group has done a lot of modification to make the game more playable and easier to enjoy. For one thing, the combat system often gets a bit convoluted when it comes to movement and how to handle certain types of attacks. There was really no one good way to accurately represent speed AND have an effective grid system for movement, so we chucked the speed attribute out and reworked it for combat. We still use the speed attribute for land travel times, but over all we use a grid and Dungeons and Dragons style movement system for combat.

Also, we've quickly figured out, just as anyone else who uses a grid, that most of the time, ranged weapons are the bread and butter of contemporary combat. By the time our martial artist gets into a fighting stance, he usually has already been either shot at or forced into impromptu combat.

Another aspect that tends to get muddy is that SOME martial arts stances you can run in, and others you really can't. I've taken Jujitsu and I can tell you that running in stance is pretty difficult, though one could move at a brisk walking pace. The basic stance of some forms of karate on the other hand are much easier to get into and a practitioner could get in stance on the fly.

Well, in conclusion don't take martial arts that require you to get into a stance if the combat is going to be dealing with enemies who use hit and run or mostly ranged weapons.

frogboy wrote:Colt47, Is stance really important ? Combat on the fly is just that. Your stance is not really important, especially in RPG gaming (imo) I like the n&ss book. Currently, the group we play with at this time consists of mutated animals from ATB with O.C.C.'s from Rifts (modified) and PFRPG. I got N&ss for $4.00 at a used book store. That one book has made the game SO much better. Wizards and Warlocks schmorelocks, let a negative Chi master get on your butt and you will know what exciting is . It also tames the but heads who have to start a fight in every pub and tavern. it's a real eye opener when they pick a fight with a shao lin master and they get there clock cleaned real fast, and will also make them humble as well. Then there is the Dim Mak. This is great for when a campaign gets dull. If no more N&ss comes out I feel it will be a great loss, but I also believe that it was one of the best Palladium works as it has introduced yet another angle to our gaming. Sorry for going on and on.

All I mean is that their is a penalty for using a style that requires a stance and your character isn't in stance when performing the moves. Well, at least the attacks. Really it isn't so much the stances that are a problem in the game I'm playing in. The problem is the amount of damage the enemies are capable of dishing out and how hard they are to hit. I'm not talking about big slow beefy dinosaurs, I'm talking about these damn nimble hollow bone critters that you COULD nearly kill with one or two good swings of a bat assuming you got the chance to actually hit them. And as far as dim mak goes, I think our GM is getting the same effect from the whole blood loss deal.

Colt47 wrote:All I mean is that their is a penalty for using a style that requires a stance and your character isn't in stance when performing the moves. Well, at least the attacks.

What page is that rule on?

frogboy wrote: I agree with the nimble hollow bone critter thing. It gets un fun fast when your guy's are killing bad guy's to fast. BUT, go head and let them get cocky. I will one day share the story of the kung fu monk, chi gung, and the vampire. You just have to turn up the heat when they dont expect it.

Actually that sounds interesting and I would like to hear it.

As for the actual game, I think the only additional works come from the Rifter, maybe one day we will get to see some more books, but probably not anytime soon.

I think N&Ss could be redone and combined with R:MC to be a great RPG with a lot of sales potential.

Munchkin Slappin GM wrote:N&SS is dead, but was it ever alive to begin with. There in no major plot to the book, it's realy more of a sourcebook, the same go's for Mystic China, there's no story to the book. I like both of the books, and could see running a game if modivated,but I never realy saw a game in them. There are no groups good or bad,no sides to chose,and not enough stuff in them to run a game. You have to be realy into world creation to play N&SS, because the book dosn't have one for you to play in.

Why does every book have to have a metaplot? N&S is a toolkit it allows you to build the game you want to play, it doesn't need much more than that.

Ninjabunny wrote:

Mantisking wrote:

Munchkin Slappin GM wrote:N&SS is dead, but was it ever alive to begin with. There in no major plot to the book, it's really more of a source-book, the same go's for Mystic China, there's no story to the book. I like both of the books, and could see running a game if motivated,but I never really saw a game in them. There are no groups good or bad,no sides to chose,and not enough stuff in them to run a game. You have to be really into world creation to play N&SS, because the book doesn't have one for you to play in.

Why does every book have to have a metaplot? N&S is a toolkit it allows you to build the game you want to play, it doesn't need much more than that.

That is a solid fact

The no meta plot is probably why it isn't talked about much. Now if they came out with some sort of metaplot books for N&S and MC then there might be more interest in playing the setting. Or there might be more talk about this and that here to show what interest there is already but doesn't show because there is no arguments over the meta plot here.

What do you need a meta-plot for anyway? A creative GM worth his salt will come up with one on his own. There are plenty of factions in these modern times to fuel many adventures and game sessions, if one would just watch the news and imagine perhaps what is going on behind closed doors, or in covert operations around the world.

Is global warming caused by a secret evil organization?
Was the earthquake in Haiti caused by the same?

If so how do the players stop it from happening again? Who do they work for? Who is their enemy?

You could make a whole campaign out of that right there, if you wanted to.

I did note, and was noting here, that the game settings that don't have a meta plot woven into them are the ones that are not talked about much here.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:I did note, and was noting here, that the game settings that don't have a meta plot woven into them are the ones that are not talked about much here.

Oh yeah, I agree. I was just saying that games without a meta-plot aren't "dead" just because they don't have one. A good GM doesn't need a meta-plot to make a game fun and interesting. That's the only point I was trying to make.

Zamion wrote:Here is the metaplot of the game......people of diffrent races, creeds, nationality's and religions will be fighting for the forseeable future and throught out the past, the games set in the earth setting so pick one of thoose races, classes, countries and so on ....now go fight your historical or future foe.....

Thanks man, you're a genius! I can't believe I hadn't seen it before.

Ninjabunny wrote:

Beatmeclever wrote:

Zamion wrote:Here is the metaplot of the game......people of diffrent races, creeds, nationality's and religions will be fighting for the forseeable future and throught out the past, the games set in the earth setting so pick one of thoose races, classes, countries and so on ....now go fight your historical or future foe.....

Thanks man, you're a genius! I can't believe I hadn't seen it before.

Hey thanks Jim you wanna say that with alittle less sarcasm next time?

You're right, NB.

Zam, can you forgive my sarcastic remark?

My problem is this: Without a developed world for N&SS, it is really nothing more than a martial arts sourcebook for the rest of the Palladium Books Multiverse. In which case, it really is a dead game. Sure we can do whatever we want with this parts, but a game without a world isn't much of a game. That is, PB never needs to touch the "Megaversal Martial Arts Sourcebook" again (and they haven't). They gave use Mystic China, but they haven't done any more with that either and that didn't expand the world any because it didn't give us any more than N&SS gave - more tools, no story. Palladium doesn't even use the N&SS rules in any of its other games, so really I was even mistaken about the idea that it was the megaversal martial arts sourcebook. SO, you are right - N&SS IS a dead game.

Just look at the other espionage games in the market and you'll see that they have a game world. Whether you choose to use it or not is up to you, but it gives beginning GMs and players an idea of the idea behind the game. N&SS doesn't have it. Look at the other PB games. They all have a developed (or at least playable) world.

Just to look at this idea more:
What would Nightbane be without its world? The Megaversal Monster Player Character Sourcebook - and you never would have gotten to meet the Nightlords, sorry. PB has published at least four books for that game!

How about Beyond the Supernatural? BtS2 has, what, two sourcebooks planned for it already?!

Dead Reign? This one even started as an idea for a sourcebook for BtS! It already has two sourcebooks!

Robotech? Volume 1 had something like 14 books; the new Robotech has two sourcebooks and at least three more planned! (Even if they do take an eternity to get released!)

Palladium Fantasy RPG would be nothing more than one more knockoff of D&D if it wasn't for the world behind it. PFRPG has so many sourcebooks it is HUGE and should I even mention RIFTS?

All of these are still being developed by the publisher BECAUSE they have worlds that CAN be developed. "Playing Ninjas & Superspies" is like playing RIFTS Bionics Sourcebook (go ahead try that!). All you have, if you are playing a game using the N&SS rules is a game that USES the N&SS rules. I know, because I have a VERY detailed world that simply uses the N&SS rules; but it isn't Ninjas & Superspies.

This is because, if I tell you that my characters have just assaulted the World Headquarters of Bellomotors and fending off a squad of Splinter in the Mind Terrorists, you don't have a CLUE where in the world my adventure just happened or how hard (or easy) it was to defeat the bad guys; but if I tell you about a different group of characters escaping from the Lone Star Complex and being attacked by a squad of Coalition Troops, you know where we were and have a good idea how much fighting we did.

Even Ninjabunny is having to post his game world here on the forum in order for us all to understand what his game is like. Otherwise, all we all talk about here is how rules work with other rules. Put the N&SS over with Systems failure (a fun one-shot that, at least, had a world to play in), BOTH are dead games.

They really should do a revised one. The rules always have been awkward vs other SDC games like Heroes unlimited, and slightly unbalanced, giving mutants and stuff like that an unfair advantage over the ninjas that train so hard everyday.

To help with that unbalance, our house rule was that all characters from Ninjas and Superspies start out with 2 Atack Per Melee base like other characters, then they add one new one every time they get a new one as they level up... with the total from all forms adding to that huge base... That helps some - does not matter so much if your punch does 1d6 if you can do it 3 times more than the mutant who's power lets them blast you 3d6 every time.

mastermesh wrote:They really should do a revised one. The rules always have been awkward vs other SDC games like Heroes unlimited, and slightly unbalanced, giving mutants and stuff like that an unfair advantage over the ninjas that train so hard everyday.

Which is funny, as the original complaint that led to N&S being Revised was that martial artists were too powerful.

Go figure.

ever since the 2 extra attackswere enplaced we have used themwith my group it keeps the Martial artists on the samelevel with the powered guys.
heck even just look atthe HU2 physical trained guys thier MAs are equal or better than most in the N&SS without the special MA powersof N&SS.
A kick boxer should beable to pumel most other characters who are not hardcore MAs in my humble opinion

I sometimes wonder if no one has heard of James Bond, Mission Impossible, GI Joe etc ect when it comes to peopel that don;t like the fact N&SS has no real setting to it......

FaerieKnight wrote:

jaymz wrote:I sometimes wonder if no one has heard of James Bond, Mission Impossible, GI Joe etc ect when it comes to peopel that don;t like the fact N&SS has no real setting to it......

They have, but most use N&SS as a source book for other games. It seems running a spy game is too much work. One spy game I was in, the GM quit because we did the job Mission Impossible style rather then James Bond style. He was expecting car chases, gun fights, and the badguys knowing we are there. Instead he got a group of spies who worked together to acomplish their mission without getting caught.

Heck, my character was a PI who specializes in long surveillance. As I told the agency director upon being hired for the job: "Listen, I know a little about fighting, but if the bullets start to fly that means I failed."

Sounds like a GM ho couldn't handle contact with players....as in plans always fail once contact with the enemy occurs

I too use it as a sourcebook but come on has this generation/era of gaming become so dependant on being spoonfed a setting/metaplot that we cannot use our imaginations to create what we want with a toolkit book rather than a setting book.?

AH so you had a HU crossover type game goin on....yeah it lends itself to that

I am actually looking to do my GI Joe stuff using N&SS with alittle bit of HU thrown in (Hardware types mostly)

jaymz wrote:AH so you had a HU crossover type game goin on....yeah it lends itself to that

I am actually looking to do my GI Joe stuff using N&SS with alittle bit of HU thrown in (Hardware types mostly)

Mostly describes the campaign I launched this past weekend.

kmspade wrote:What do you need a meta-plot for anyway? A creative GM worth his salt will come up with one on his own. There are plenty of factions in these modern times to fuel many adventures and game sessions, if one would just watch the news and imagine perhaps what is going on behind closed doors, or in covert operations around the world.

Is global warming caused by a secret evil organization?
Was the earthquake in Haiti caused by the same?

If so how do the players stop it from happening again? Who do they work for? Who is their enemy?

You could make a whole campaign out of that right there, if you wanted to.

What about the Tsunami in India a few years ago. Suggest looking into HAARP (High Altitude Auroral Research Project). Prepare for shadow government and conspiracy as soon as you do!

I'm on the verge of resurrecting my old N&SS game from almost 15 years ago.

Working title is:

Beyond the Superspies: Unlimited & Other Strangeness

great

I hope you come up with some Organizations and Npc,s both Good Guys and Bad Guys.

Nice deal.

I want this game to live

Overkill wrote:

The Architector wrote:I see your point about all other P.B. worlds but all those worlds were fictional.
N&SS is related to this world with real areas in the world.
Nightbane, HU, Rifts etc...have to be explain for the gamers ,we need to know who the coalition are what makes juicers interesting, why are the nightlords dangerously evil.
Even dead reign is fictional that the world is now a waste land then a society.
With fictional world things need to be explained, With real world places and people we know to some degree who they are.
we know who Kim Jong Il is and what his country is about, where Russia is and the state its in.
Trouble inside the middle east and the pirates around Africa are Somali and South America, I could go on and on.
We understand the ideas of power, money, dictators, technology and arms race.
What the cause and effect can be or could be. just log on to BBC or any news site and there are mountain loads of info for what you could use for N&SS.

And that leaves me with a question was N&SS made without a metaplot so we could adapt that game to any situation for any time in life.
If that was its purpose then i can say it succeeded, for its the only game that I could create what the war in Afghanistan is like in modern day or what the future would it be like if Red China would try to dominate the world!

The metaplot? look at the news, websites, and current affairs, the source material, check out history books, geography and social studies and you have your game.
Would i like more books and material hell yeah!
Do i need it to make new and interesting games.
naw.

The Architector.

Agreed. Our world IS the N&SS world.

I have to disagree once again. Our world is NOT the N&SS world. N&SS is fictional too. The cybernetics alone make this science fiction. This could be our world twenty years in the future, but it is not our world today. In fact, it is not a world it is a series of rules and ideas that must be forged into a world by each individual GM.

A metaplot helps younger gamers develop an idea about how the martial arts communities interact with the espionage agencies and how each plays their role in the world. It would allow for a quick start to playing rather than GMs being forced to spend days, weeks, or even months creating bad guys and their evil agencies and mystical temples and the martial artists that protect them.

After you have played in a world long enough, you will develop the world for yourselves, but the metaplot makes entry into a world easier on new players and GMs to that game. On the other hand, a metaplot may inhibit the creative spirit in other GMs. I think that the game just needs a section at the back that gives sample adventures, sample bad guys, secret societies, etc. What about a sample good guys agency to start characters in? Throw those who need it a bone while letting the advanced players the freedom to create their own world.

I still hold that without further development of a world for the game to exist within, N&SS is a dead game. What book comes next? They gave us Mystic China and added psionics, magic, and alchemy to the world, but they didn't tell us how that would affect the agencies of the world. They have yet to develop the Gizmoteer or the Free Agents, what about the Mercenary (for N&SS not Rifts)?

N&SS is a game that has no world. It is uninviting for novice players, but exciting for advanced players. Saying all of this, I understand that I have my own N&SS world; I have my own secret societies, evil organizations, evil geniuses, and dark ninja clans. My agency has save the world a thousand times and the general populace is still mostly unaware of their existence (other than a few "crazy" conspiracy theorists). But I still remember the struggle my first GM had with this game in High School. We started out with creating characters and having big battle royales - no story, no bad guys, and no fun after a few weeks. Someone created and agency and we started taking missions to "save the world," and we finally started having more fun. However, I remember JK used to say he had been working on his game world since he picked the book up a month before.

My point should be plain, but I have a tendency to cloud those things in my own lack of focus: Had we had a metaplot for the game we would have been able to get to the fun that much sooner. Today, twenty years later, no one has trouble getting into my world (but, as I have said already, my world is not N&SS it is just a world that uses the N&SS rules, BTS rules, GI Joe, x-files, and several anime worlds). N&SS is only a supplement to the rest of PB. As much as I want it to live it is dead.

So now I say to Palladium Books: Re-release N&SS. Make it stand out from the rest of the Megaverse instead of simply being a sourcebook. Give it a world and make it live.

Here's looking forward to Warpath (soon please).

Beatmeclever wrote:

Ninjabunny wrote:

Beatmeclever wrote:

Zamion wrote:Here is the metaplot of the game......people of diffrent races, creeds, nationality's and religions will be fighting for the forseeable future and throught out the past, the games set in the earth setting so pick one of thoose races, classes, countries and so on ....now go fight your historical or future foe.....

Thanks man, you're a genius! I can't believe I hadn't seen it before.

Hey thanks Jim you wanna say that with alittle less sarcasm next time?

You're right, NB.

Zam, can you forgive my sarcastic remark?

My problem is this: Without a developed world for N&SS, it is really nothing more than a martial arts sourcebook for the rest of the Palladium Books Multiverse. In which case, it really is a dead game. Sure we can do whatever we want with this parts, but a game without a world isn't much of a game. That is, PB never needs to touch the "Megaversal Martial Arts Sourcebook" again (and they haven't). They gave use Mystic China, but they haven't done any more with that either and that didn't expand the world any because it didn't give us any more than N&SS gave - more tools, no story. Palladium doesn't even use the N&SS rules in any of its other games, so really I was even mistaken about the idea that it was the megaversal martial arts sourcebook. SO, you are right - N&SS IS a dead game.

Just look at the other espionage games in the market and you'll see that they have a game world. Whether you choose to use it or not is up to you, but it gives beginning GMs and players an idea of the idea behind the game. N&SS doesn't have it. Look at the other PB games. They all have a developed (or at least playable) world.

Just to look at this idea more:
What would Nightbane be without its world? The Megaversal Monster Player Character Sourcebook - and you never would have gotten to meet the Nightlords, sorry. PB has published at least four books for that game!

How about Beyond the Supernatural? BtS2 has, what, two sourcebooks planned for it already?!

Dead Reign? This one even started as an idea for a sourcebook for BtS! It already has two sourcebooks!

Robotech? Volume 1 had something like 14 books; the new Robotech has two sourcebooks and at least three more planned! (Even if they do take an eternity to get released!)

Palladium Fantasy RPG would be nothing more than one more knockoff of D&D if it wasn't for the world behind it. PFRPG has so many sourcebooks it is HUGE and should I even mention RIFTS?

All of these are still being developed by the publisher BECAUSE they have worlds that CAN be developed. "Playing Ninjas & Superspies" is like playing RIFTS Bionics Sourcebook (go ahead try that!). All you have, if you are playing a game using the N&SS rules is a game that USES the N&SS rules. I know, because I have a VERY detailed world that simply uses the N&SS rules; but it isn't Ninjas & Superspies.

This is because, if I tell you that my characters have just assaulted the World Headquarters of Bellomotors and fending off a squad of Splinter in the Mind Terrorists, you don't have a CLUE where in the world my adventure just happened or how hard (or easy) it was to defeat the bad guys; but if I tell you about a different group of characters escaping from the Lone Star Complex and being attacked by a squad of Coalition Troops, you know where we were and have a good idea how much fighting we did.

Even Ninjabunny is having to post his game world here on the forum in order for us all to understand what his game is like. Otherwise, all we all talk about here is how rules work with other rules. Put the N&SS over with Systems failure (a fun one-shot that, at least, had a world to play in), BOTH are dead games.

I think part of the problem is, I remember reading a Post by Kevin (I think) at some point, I think on the company history part of the website, that the origional submission for Ninja's and Superspys was from a freelance writer and dubbed unuseable, so Eric Wujick, to meet the printers deadline, cranked the whole game out in 3 weeks flat.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:I think part of the problem is, I remember reading a Post by Kevin (I think) at some point, I think on the company history part of the website, that the origional submission for Ninja's and Superspys was from a freelance writer and dubbed unuseable, so Eric Wujick, to meet the printers deadline, cranked the whole game out in 3 weeks flat.

Erick was really good at turning unusable material into great material, but this book needs a world. Even he must have thought so, because N&SS came out in 1988 and in 1995 he gave us the Mystic China supplement. I think he wanted to develop a world but never got around to it.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:I think part of the problem is, I remember reading a Post by Kevin (I think) at some point, I think on the company history part of the website, that the origional submission for Ninja's and Superspys was from a freelance writer and dubbed unuseable, so Eric Wujick, to meet the printers deadline, cranked the whole game out in 3 weeks flat.

Never remember reading anything like that. The intro also says it was a project that Erick had wanted to do for years. Sure your not thinking of another book?

Shawn Merrow wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:I think part of the problem is, I remember reading a Post by Kevin (I think) at some point, I think on the company history part of the website, that the origional submission for Ninja's and Superspys was from a freelance writer and dubbed unuseable, so Eric Wujick, to meet the printers deadline, cranked the whole game out in 3 weeks flat.

Never remember reading anything like that. The intro also says it was a project that Erick had wanted to do for years. Sure your not thinking of another book?

Actually if I am not mistaken that's the story behind how TMNT ended up produced. They got he license, got someone to write it and it was crap adn ERik gotit done in like three weeks to get it to the printers in time.

I could well have gotten it mixed up

Checked and it was TMNT&OS.

Company Profile

The TMNT game got off to a bad start. The first designer saw the game simply as a supplement to Heroes UnlimitedTM and didn't want to do the animal mutation rules. The result was a weak regurgitation of Heroes UnlimitedTM and some dull stats on generic mutant animals. The manuscript was rejected.

The project was turned over to Erick Wujcik. This guy is probably one of the most creative and innovative game designers in the business. He was under the gun. I needed a finished game in three weeks. Five and a half weeks later, Erick handed me the finished RPG. (Erick never can meet a deadline, but 5 1/2 weeks to do a game like TMNT from scratch is amazing.) The game was an instant hit, selling 10,000 copies in three months.

Overkill wrote:I was one of those 10,000. I couldn't wait for it to come out. The only thing I always thought was funny was that you couldn't reverse engineer and actually make the turtles using the rules. The stats given for the turtles did match the comic book characters, you just couldn't do it yourself.

Gee sounds like HU2 if you want to make a lot of present day comic book heroes.....

I use it for other games.

I seriously don't think this game is dead. It IS a toolbox to be used with all the other games PB makes, but as a stand alone it is probaly one of the most challenging games for play simply because the meta-plot isn't there. It's a game that challenges GM's and players alike to take the real world and turn it into your own.
Granted, the existance of, by current modern standards, advanced cybernetic systems is a curveball thrown in to shake things up, but don't look at that as unrealistic... look at it as something that MAY actually exist today and we just don't know about it because the unsuspecting public of our time really doesn't have a clue how advanced technology could really be right now. Remember when you first heard about the stealth bomber? From what I gathered, the damn thing existed for a good 5 or 6 years or more before J.Q. Public even suspected such a thing was possible!
As for the more mystical aspects of the Martial Arts, all i can say is I have seen some people do some pretty incredible things with their bodies through the discipline and training provided by Martial Arts training. Not just breaking bricks with their bare hands (Tamashiwara) or being so aware of their surroundings that they can sense when someone is about to attack them (Zanshin). The Chi ability of Soft Chi, for example... There are Martial Arts Masters out there that are pretty much untouchable in a straight up fight, easilly parrying and blocking every attempt to hit them, and they can still manage to throw a man twice their size to the ground like a rag doll. And we're talking about a man that's in his 70's or 80's doing this! Soft Chi at work? Maybe... maybe not... but then that's the beauty of the mystic aspect of a Martial Art.
To those of you that crave a meta-plot to make a game good, I challenge you to make your own. That's what this game was made for as far as I'm concerned. Take the information you have in this book and add, or even subtract, whatever you want and turn it into what you and your players imagine you want this world you live in to be like.

Long Live Ninjas & Superspies!!

Beatmeclever wrote:

Ninjabunny wrote:

Beatmeclever wrote:

Zamion wrote:Here is the metaplot of the game......people of diffrent races, creeds, nationality's and religions will be fighting for the forseeable future and throught out the past, the games set in the earth setting so pick one of thoose races, classes, countries and so on ....now go fight your historical or future foe.....

Thanks man, you're a genius! I can't believe I hadn't seen it before.

Hey thanks Jim you wanna say that with alittle less sarcasm next time?

You're right, NB.

Zam, can you forgive my sarcastic remark?

My problem is this: Without a developed world for N&SS, it is really nothing more than a martial arts sourcebook for the rest of the Palladium Books Multiverse. In which case, it really is a dead game. Sure we can do whatever we want with this parts, but a game without a world isn't much of a game. That is, PB never needs to touch the "Megaversal Martial Arts Sourcebook" again (and they haven't). They gave use Mystic China, but they haven't done any more with that either and that didn't expand the world any because it didn't give us any more than N&SS gave - more tools, no story. Palladium doesn't even use the N&SS rules in any of its other games, so really I was even mistaken about the idea that it was the megaversal martial arts sourcebook. SO, you are right - N&SS IS a dead game.

Just look at the other espionage games in the market and you'll see that they have a game world. Whether you choose to use it or not is up to you, but it gives beginning GMs and players an idea of the idea behind the game. N&SS doesn't have it. Look at the other PB games. They all have a developed (or at least playable) world.

Just to look at this idea more:
What would Nightbane be without its world? The Megaversal Monster Player Character Sourcebook - and you never would have gotten to meet the Nightlords, sorry. PB has published at least four books for that game!

How about Beyond the Supernatural? BtS2 has, what, two sourcebooks planned for it already?!

Dead Reign? This one even started as an idea for a sourcebook for BtS! It already has two sourcebooks!

Robotech? Volume 1 had something like 14 books; the new Robotech has two sourcebooks and at least three more planned! (Even if they do take an eternity to get released!)

Palladium Fantasy RPG would be nothing more than one more knockoff of D&D if it wasn't for the world behind it. PFRPG has so many sourcebooks it is HUGE and should I even mention RIFTS?

All of these are still being developed by the publisher BECAUSE they have worlds that CAN be developed. "Playing Ninjas & Superspies" is like playing RIFTS Bionics Sourcebook (go ahead try that!). All you have, if you are playing a game using the N&SS rules is a game that USES the N&SS rules. I know, because I have a VERY detailed world that simply uses the N&SS rules; but it isn't Ninjas & Superspies.

This is because, if I tell you that my characters have just assaulted the World Headquarters of Bellomotors and fending off a squad of Splinter in the Mind Terrorists, you don't have a CLUE where in the world my adventure just happened or how hard (or easy) it was to defeat the bad guys; but if I tell you about a different group of characters escaping from the Lone Star Complex and being attacked by a squad of Coalition Troops, you know where we were and have a good idea how much fighting we did.

Even Ninjabunny is having to post his game world here on the forum in order for us all to understand what his game is like. Otherwise, all we all talk about here is how rules work with other rules. Put the N&SS over with Systems failure (a fun one-shot that, at least, had a world to play in), BOTH are dead games.

Beatmecleaver is right .. I never really saw N&SS/MC as a game in of itself but a expansion for use with HU & BtS. In our current group that's what we use it for a character supplement for BtS 1ste. That's why I never bought them as they were crunch I didn't need. Now if it had an interesting & vibrant setting like in BtS I'd have been willing to buy it. My GM has the books so I don't need them. Plus they have a dated & slightly confusing layout n' feel. N&SS/MC should be revised & a default setting included. Maybe tie it to BtS officially.

i woud love to see this game redone properly. This game was made to emulate action movies, and i'd like to see material going in that direction. I would love a more expanded section on villains: brutal dictators, war criminals, mad scientists, martial arts masters, organized crime, etc.
I think Ninjas & Superspies really has the potential to be a really cool and different RPG if only it was used as more than a "Palladium Martial Arts Sourcebook". It's gotta step up its game, so to speak.

No, but this thread has been for almost a year... Which I think answers the question. That I found it and read it and responded to it, as was said, it's never dead until there's nothing left.

N&SS may be effectively dead as it is. What it needws is for Warpath Urban Jungle to be combined with it to make a new and super improved "Modern" game setting.

Updating the accuracy of the martial arts and various modern weapons, with maybe a modern Weapons Compendium volume 2 shortly there after. I'd buy it in a heartbeat

Right! Warpath = Ninjas & Superspies with a metaplot!

When do I get Warpath and will it include both the ninjas and the superspies or just the anti-terrorist forces?

MADMANMIKE wrote:No, but this thread has been for almost a year... Which I think answers the question. That I found it and read it and responded to it, as was said, it's never dead until there's nothing left.

Considering we've had a lot of new threads lately, you could have just left this one dead instead of stirring up an old and useless conversation.

I would enjoy to see either a more modern update or at least a modern sourcebook. There are so many real world spy stuff and tv spy stuff that is cooler than what is in this book. I use N&SS for a suppliment for other games to check on martial art powers and combat stuff for that one player who always has to be an awesome martial artist.