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So i was wondering today what type of changes that could be made if Kevin had decided to update Palladium fantasy much like he did with BTS.

What i want to know is what new rules or rule changes would you want to see.
Personally, i want to see more situational rules like: penalties for being prone or well defined rules for social situations.

You guys must not have been around for very long, Palladium Fantasy RPG has already been updated from a previous version in 1996. I think it works just fine.

It would of turned out to be a muddle like bts2 is.

Second edition BTS is great- if only they get the damn magic book out. Way better than the older one.

But i'm not saying a updated version should be like BTS 2nd ed. I'm Just saying that stream lining the rules, adding long in the needed rules, putting all the new skills and spells in the core, etc. I'm not even talking about get books out that have been promised to be coming out every year since 1994, cause to tell you the truth- it wont happen and i'm not too worried about it since i'll just make that **** up.

Anyway. i want more details on what rules your talking about. You say you want them to make the Men at Arms OCC's a little more distinct; how? What are your idea or possible way you would want this done?

Normally I'd agree with there is no need to update PF, however Mysteries of Magic updates
mages in many ways. What about Clergy and Men of Arms? Shouldn't they get a chance to
expand beyond the main book? Clergy do expand somewhat thanks to Dragons and Gods, but
Rangers, Thieves, and Soldiers should have something to give them an edge.

I have a number of system things I'd do... rework skills somewhat in the vein of my "pimp my skill monkey" article, switch the per-level increase in HP to SDC, and play around with combat (rather than going back to the "Every OCC its own hand to hand" or sticking with the generics).

And Clergy were included in the Mysteries of Magic Manuscipt; I even had to break priests into their own chapter, away from other non-learned magics.

I'd expand more on the skills, in order to allow more fleshing out of character backgrounds. Oh wait... I already did that! (My skill book would make a sourcebook all it's own!) Actually, all things considered, I'm pretty happy with the way the game is laid out. I like the freedom it gives to run things my own way, as a set of guidelines instead of die-hard rules for the rules lawyers to gripe about. I think it works phenomenally well as is. I wouldn't change much of anything.

That being said, i DO want a lot more world information. Eagerly awaiting MoM.

I understand that Kevin will never do this. but the point is to see whateveryone comes up with. You said there were a lot of broken areas, and i wanted to know what and how do you go and fix them. View this as a theoretical exercise.

It's been a long time since I've played PF... it was however, the first rpg book I ever bought and I always meant to go back to those long lost realms of lore and steel. Maybe someday but I agree that the men of arms should get some special abilities at later levels to allow them to stay somewhere near what a mage can do. like a once a day blow of the heaven for a paladin, a thousand feet to the face for a monk, some kind of trap sense or hiding ability, a soldier adds an ar bonus to his armor because he has learned how to twist under a blade's blow and so and so forth. Like one of these kind of things every 4 or 5 levels... so that a man of arms has more to look forward to than being able to swing his sword just a little better.

Sounds like many of the things i addressed in my RPG( that is currently in playtesting).

When i played, we always ignored the occ skill restrictions after character creation so a Mage could learn Gymnastics.

I got no Problem withat that.

TrumbachD wrote:

jade von delioch wrote:So i was wondering today what type of changes that could be made if Kevin had decided to update Palladium fantasy much like he did with BTS.
What i want to know is what new rules or rule changes would you want to see.

I'd like to see a PF Version of the Shifter!
Why is Rifts the only game that gets its own OCC Devoted to Dimension Hopping?
Granted it wouldn't be that hard to add them;
The RUE Shifters "OCC Skills" list all looks OK for a PF Character.
You'd only need to tweak some of the Starting equipment (binoculars, and MDC Body armor for instance) and maybe the starting money.
But Otherwise the Shifter would be a good class to have in PF and i'm surprised it wasn't included.

I have always felt that the shifter was a more advanced version of the Summoner occ. But i think the best way to look at it is in two fashions. 1) this is a low tech, medieval world so the concepts of physics, scientific theory, and philosophy are not as advanced as rifts. 2) a lot of magical practices were lost after the Elf/Dwarf war.

I, on the other hand, don't think the Shifter fits in with Palladium Fantasy; mechanically, he's not bad, but thematically, he's a horrible fit.

While Palladium Fantasy certainly allows dimensional exploration, it's not a game that has it as a major theme. Dimension hopping in PF is usually not an end, but a means; you don't travel to another world because it's another world, but to get the Widget that will let you do the Thingie. "What's beyond the next portal" isn't really something that Palladium Fantasy talks about... if you go that route, things slowly stop being a PF game, and move much closer to Rifts as exploration branches out. This isn't bad... but it's also not really a theme that I think PF touches on.

As for shifters being "advanced" summoners, I disagree completely. While Shifters can cast spells, summoners are far better suited to what they do: Summoning and domination of beings, magical protection, and even more arcane circles. Spell magic is something of a "cheat"... it can emulate other forms of magic, but lacks their power. Spell magic could make something to match Summon Elemental Forces, but it wouldn't be quite the same, and, even when cast as a ritual (which would likely take longer to cast), wouldn't gain the benefit of a summoner's circle strength bonuses, or the caster's spell strength bonuses. Circle Magic is very different than spellcasting, and while spellcasting can mimic it, it's an imperfect copy, lacking the flexibility and power of the original.

Northern Ranger wrote:That being said, i DO want a lot more world information. Eagerly awaiting MoM.

Has there even been any material expanding beyond the first known world continent? You can't tell me an entire planet is that freaking small.

The only things I can think of would be to include the 2 APM for living into the h2h's that the other settings have gone to and the change in spell casting that RUE brought about in rifts. (NB could use the h2h & magic up date also). And canonize then with a Official Ettera in the rifter or in a system wide Ettera book. (much like they did with the spells from PF1 but left out of the PF2 book)

They should take a close look at the skills which have a Rate of Fire like Archery, Small Thrown Weapons, Targeting; to see if they need to be reworked to fit the new melee particulars. This to be system wide Look at.

Thou, the doubling of the said RoF would bring them back in line with the APM to where they were when the starting APM was 2 and the starting RoF was 2.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:The only things I can think of would be to include the 2 APM for living into the h2h's that the other settings have gone to and the change in spell casting that RUE brought about in rifts. (NB could use the h2h & magic up date also). And canonize then with a Official Ettera in the rifter or in a system wide Ettera book. (much like they did with the spells from PF1 but left out of the PF2 book)

They should take a close look at the skills which have a Rate of Fire like Archery, Small Thrown Weapons, Targeting; to see if they need to be reworked to fit the new melee particulars. This to be system wide Look at.

Thou, the doubling of the said RoF would bring them back in line with the APM to where they were when the starting APM was 2 and the starting RoF was 2.

Being that I mix PF2 and HU2, I am always having to adjust APM, and yeah, the archers are the worse ones to have to adjust.

This is why i think its strange that people don't see any reason to update the core book (just the core book).

I'd like to see a update/revision of PF like what was done with RIFTS with RUE. Do I see it happening ? No. Not unless the new magic books sells extremely well & demand for a streamlined HardBack like RUE for PF rises. I want the H2H charts revised one for each OCC like in 1st ed . Some modifications to the OCCs especially the optional ones like Nobles & such. Plus a RUE like HB core book would stand out on the shelf compared to the past editions . I'll have to reread through both of my editions of PFRPG before I can list what specific rule changes or clarifications I'd like to see.

I think they could do better than a RUE treatment. I like some of the upgrades they made, but its not PF.


Question: how often does Kevin read these message boards? The reason i ask is because of fans asking these types of questions without any response from the man himself.

jade von delioch wrote::-( I think they could do better than a RUE treatment. I like some of the upgrades they made, but its not PF.


Question: how often does Kevin read these message boards? The reason i ask is because of fans asking these types of questions without any response from the man himself.

Yes, KS read the message boards. How often, good question.

However, with a topic like this one I would think he would follow it. But that is only me guessing.

jade von delioch wrote::-( I think they could do better than a RUE treatment. I like some of the upgrades they made, but its not PF.


Question: how often does Kevin read these message boards? The reason i ask is because of fans asking these types of questions without any response from the man himself.

Kevin is going to be on Gateway Monday. That is the oppertunity for you to ask him anything. Here is the info.

If you can't make it, you can PM Prince Artemis.

Carl

So i sent this question along to The pod cast to see if i could get an answer to whether he would do an update and pretty much got the Big "No". I really don't see why though. I mean, if it was ok to update rifts then why not the core book for palladium. Those of you who did not hear the podcast, he pretty much said he didn't see any reason to do it and that the core rules were fine as they were. It a little sad.... I guess this is one of those things that we can say that he is too close to the subject to see whats wrong.
Which is why this thread is so important. If we come up with better updates than whats printed or not printed at all that others can use then wheres the harm in that?

TrumbachD wrote:

Stone Gargoyle wrote:

Northern Ranger wrote:That being said, i DO want a lot more world information. Eagerly awaiting MoM.

Has there even been any material expanding beyond the first known world continent? You can't tell me an entire planet is that freaking small.

It might be possible to work off of (Or make variations of) some of the charts in DB7, Phase world and/or heroes Unlimited's Alien charts to create new continents much like one might create a new Planet or Dimension.
Perhaps each such continent might have uncanny similarities to a different historical empire that one's players might have an interest in: such as the Greeks, Chinese, Indians, Romans, Egyptians, Vikings, or whatever culture you like.

Each might have a couple of Special OCCs based on archetypes wich that culture was known for.

They would also have Special Spells culled from that cultures legends and maybe even special weaponry, armor, or magic items also from the legends of that particular culture.

I do a lot of that now. It would just be nice if there were more material from Palladium in that regard, more campaign settings, if you will. There is a ton of stuff for Rifts but nearly as much for Palladium Fantasy or Heroes Unlimited.