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So one of the people in my gaming group has decided to run a dead reign game, the premise is "its 2012 and you survived the wave".

so mild mannered construction worker rat_bastard is playing "mild mannered construction worker rat_bastard"

Here's the thing, of the four people likely playing this game three are gun collectors, one is a CIA "analyst", one owns a business that custom builds AR-15s and casts his own bullets, one is a freelance Union organizer (something with an incredibly broad and useful skill-set) and one is a SCA heavy combat fighter. Oh and did I mention that we kinda collect things that would be useful in a scenario where the world ends?

yeah, we are not your average Dead reign survivors.

So I thought I would have a continuing thread on ratty's insights into the world of the walking dead and the things he's doing to survive and thrive in a world gone mad.

Lets start with a talk about the all important melee weapons, I have to say in the world of dead reign the blunt weapon skill is truely king. And a Pry bar is probably the most important item you can have, its got a good swing and it will get you into most buildings and many vehicles.

I personally recommend the Dead On AN18 18-Inch Annihilator Utility and Wrecking Bar for both crushing zombie heads and breaking into homes and businesses for looting. I wear one in a belt loop and I have personally reinforced the rubberized handle with foam rubber and gorilla tape because the padded handle is not as thick as one needs for zombie Killing. Still, this is a very useful tool and good weapon, I recommend it or a similar device to anyone who wants to survive.

A Pry bar with a Padded handle is a necessity for survival, it can get you food shelter and be used to kill zombies, but there are other weapons that are very useful in the apocalypse.

I also like the idea of having a Boar Spear. Peircing weapons are far from ideal, but I feel the boar spear is a special case, the barbs on the head hook onto the zombie's bones which enables you to keep 4 feet of wood and steel between you and the walking dead. It also allows you to push a zombie around with leverage (which helps counter its prodigious strength). If you are working with a team one guy can spear the zombie while the other crushes its skull fairly easily.

Another thin non-gun people probably do not know

A .357 revolver is a treasure anyplace where ammo is scarce

you know why? Because a .357 revolver can fire .38 ammunition without any modification whatsoever. The rounds are the same width, but the .357 bullets are a little longer (because they have more powder, the slug is essentially the same). Any gun that can happily use multiple common ammo types is more useful by definition than one that requires a specific shell.

its also cheap to take to the range because you can do your target shooting with the cheaper .38 rounds.

Also every .357 revolver I've seen has been solidly built of stainless steel, which means it can be used as a relatively efficient club if you need to.

Some items ratty would be caught dead without in dead reign:

A Well made pry bar
A multi-tool
A lighter
Multiple durable light sources
Caffeine
one or more books
Spam
Duct tape or a better form of tape
Thanks azazel1024! A small axe or a large hatchet

Here is another thing most people probably do not know about.

You need electricity?

Loot an inverter and a deep cycle battery.

That will give you enough power to run appliances and recharge laptops and radios, and honestly the electronics skill is largely unnecessary. Recharging the battery requires a power source but the inverter + a plug in battery charger means you can charge it with a car's cigarette lighter. I personally own 8 15 watt solar panels which I use to charge my batteries.

Another important piece of information is that wind turbines will probably provide power for about 3 years without significant maintenance and the hoover damn is expected to provide steady juice for 5 years without a single human maintaining it.

But honestly, look in your phonebook for places that install solar panels and try to loot those if you want electricty.

it would be stupid to air condition a house but it would allow you to recharge vital tools and upgrade your standard of living.

I like it. I'd been thinking the same thoughts on batteries + inverter + solar panel.

Also, frankly a wood cutter's axe would work well. A nice 2.5lb head is quick to swing and easy enough to take off a zombie head. Reverse it and you have a nice 2.5lb bashing head on the end of a 3ft fiberglass or wood handle. Great as a door opener as well.
-Matt

Ok, so we all know the first place thats going to get looted is the hardware stores, gun stores and grocery stores (or any place that sells all three like wal mart)

so here is a list of places that will carry things that are vital to your survival that might not be on people's top looting places.

Pet stores! In case you have not noticed Dogs and cats in the first world eat pretty damn well, high quality canned dog food contains the same basic ingredients of low quality human canned food and quite frankly after two days of not eating you would be thrilled to have a can of dog food to eat. Also if they are still alive grab the rabbits, guinea pigs and other large rodents and keep them around, both are completely edible and are happy to eat roughage. Besides who's going to loot rabbit food besides the guy who is wondering what he is going to eat next month?

Arts and Craft stores! These stores may not have valuable anti zombie weapons but they do have entire isles dedicated to candles and lamps, I've never seen a big craft store fail to stock valuables like lamp oil, flammable solvents, blocks of wax, sewing kits, batteries and in some cases leather and leather-working tools.

Garden supply stores! Depending on the time of year you arrive you'll either find ready to plant plants (if you have a secure hiding place potted tomatoes can keep you alive) and these places usually have a decent stock of tools like picks, shovels, axes and pitchforks, all helpful in fighting off your undead foes. Any time during the season they will have seed packets which is a promise of food months and years down the line.

Restaurants! Hey, everyone is thinking about the Grocery store but has anyone thought about the canned products in the storeroom of your local subway? Granted there is only so long you can live off of relish but honestly you need food and they would probably have something useful.

Party stores: my local party store stocks Sterno, candles and Lamp oil. Does yours?

Book stores: Keeping sane is as important as keeping healthy and being able to fight off the undead. Books require no power (just light) and can double as a fire starter or a club if you are desperate. Also guidebooks might give you a +5% to a skill check.

Toy stores: Baseball bats, flashlights, personal gaming devices, walkies talkies, mountain bikes and squirt guns (combine a super soaker with lamp oil and have fun!) need I say more?

Arts and craft stores also frequently have things like mason jars for canning, very important for right after you hit the garden store/nursery.

Something the books mention not to do is to hit military bases because of all of the zed former soldiers there...well what about national guard armories? There are plenty in fairly rural areas and most times they are a vehicle pool and a building or three with an armory and offices inside. Medical suplies, MREs, etc on top of the vehicles, fuel and weapons/ammo. At least at most of them.
-Matt

You'd have a lot more chamber/barrel fouling and possibly corrosion if you don't keep it very clean. Also, maybe I am way off base, but I'd think in general finding .38 or .357 cartridges or even 'lose' smokeless powder would be easier then finding equivelent quantities of black powder.

Also you're going to have to come up with a large quantity of lead and possibly antimony, bullet molds, a bullet press, scale, etc. Not that making your own bullets and self loading the cartridges is the hardest thing in the entire world...but most of the 'raw materials' aren't as easy to get as just finding boxes full of .38 or .357 rounds in gun stores, big box stores or homes (or police stations, but I'd imagine that would be increasingly hard since a lot of departments use 9mm or .40 these days).
-Matt

One of the things about being able to mint your own shells is you can take apart shells that are not useful to you and use their basic components to make more useful shells. I could for example take 30 .38 shells and 20 spent .357 casings and make 20 .357 shells. Or you could take bird shot shotgun shells and replace the light pellets with a slug. Then there is little things like drilling hollows into your shells to make them hollow points.

here is another one.

Hit a gun store after it has been ransacked.

Look for the store's payment and order records, at the very least you should be able to get information on the name's and phone number's of the gun store's customers.

Cross reference the client list with a phone book and you should be able to get addresses, use pins and a local map to find out the neighborhoods with the most gun owners and do a door to door looting (passing over those homes with living occupants).

Congrats, you know where to loot guns, and where there are guns, there are bullets and where there are guns and bullets there is a greater than usual likelihood of finding survival gear.

all pretty savy but that last part entails a lot of potential danger as some of those people could still be alive and a little triggerhappy with prowlers.

rat_bastard wrote:One of the things about being able to mint your own shells is you can take apart shells that are not useful to you and use their basic components to make more useful shells. I could for example take 30 .38 shells and 20 spent .357 casings and make 20 .357 shells. Or you could take bird shot shotgun shells and replace the light pellets with a slug. Then there is little things like drilling hollows into your shells to make them hollow points.

Hmm, didn't think about that one. Though you don't need special tools to make a hollow point. Of course don't look at me to put a cartridge in a table vise and take a power drill to the tip. Now ask me with the bullet seperated from the casing maybe. For that you'd need the specialized tools.

Other thoughts on places, post offices and similar. People mail all sorts of things. It would be pretty random, but you could likely find everything from books to knives to food and camping gear in packages.

Vetrinary offices, these places tend to have at least small stocks of things like antibiotics, painkillers, etc and most are the same sorts of varieties that are used on people. Same goes with other medical supplies such as bandages, materials for making casts and splints, basic surgical equipment at most, etc.
-Matt

cyber-yukongil v2.5 wrote:all pretty savy but that last part entails a lot of potential danger as some of those people could still be alive and a little triggerhappy with prowlers.

Thats why you go in broad daylight and knock politely on the door and ask if anyone is alive inside. If they are still sane and polite you might be able to trade goods or information.

I need the skills demolitions and basic electronics for an idea I came up with, basically since zombies are attracted to noise, light and movement and have no common sense.

It seems like outfitting satchel charges with strobes, Christmas lights and cheap music players (and possibly hamsters in a cage) to attract a crowd and then when it gets to be standing room only detonate the entire package.

seems like an efficient and spectacular way to thin the zombie population.

rat_bastard wrote:I need the skills demolitions and basic electronics for an idea I came up with, basically since zombies are attracted to noise, light and movement and have no common sense.

It seems like outfitting satchel charges with strobes, Christmas lights and cheap music players (and possibly hamsters in a cage) to attract a crowd and then when it gets to be standing room only detonate the entire package.

seems like an efficient and spectacular way to thin the zombie population.

This one is by far my favorite so far.

I already mentioned grocery distribution centers in our phone conversation - you'd have skids of canned goods therein.

Also, with the gun store info, you wouldn't need a phone book for a lot of the clients. They have to keep paperwork on hand for each gun sold. That'll have an address on it as well.

The ability to make explosives is important. That's why you also raid the high school and some chemical supply houses. Also - some things that nobody else has mentioned:

1. Concrete
2. Seeds
3. Gardening implements
4. A good knife (or five)
5. Whetstones
6. Flint
7. Steel
8. A good magnifying glass
9. Books! Raid the libraries! How to make rubber, wax, and soap! How to render animal fat into fuel! How to make an effective kiln!
10. Machine shops - you'll need the CNCs, drill presses, grinders, et cetera. Make sure you get an arc welder.
11. Gas stations - steal the fuel and oil.
12. Tire stores - tires are useful for armor. Also, the rims can be stacked and used as building material.

I'm sure there's more, but that's a good starting point.

/Sub

Subjugator wrote:I already mentioned grocery distribution centers in our phone conversation - you'd have skids of canned goods therein.

Also, with the gun store info, you wouldn't need a phone book for a lot of the clients. They have to keep paperwork on hand for each gun sold. That'll have an address on it as well.

The ability to make explosives is important. That's why you also raid the high school and some chemical supply houses. Also - some things that nobody else has mentioned:

1. Concrete

not really something you can deal with on the run...

2. Seeds

Check

3. Gardening implements

In the garage and back yard

4. A good knife (or five)

check

5. Whetstones

Mac has an incredible set of Japanese water-stones, but I do need something easier to travel with

6. Flint
7. Steel
8. A good magnifying glass

as there is no shortage of lighters and matches ye olde styles of firestarting are less important for me these days.

9. Books! Raid the libraries! How to make rubber, wax, and soap! How to render animal fat into fuel! How to make an effective kiln!

Mac Handles the combat books and DVDs, Rick has the building perfect shelter books and I'm more concerned with the hobby farming books.

10. Machine shops - you'll need the CNCs, drill presses, grinders, et cetera. Make sure you get an arc welder.

kinda a long term goal, machine shops require a certain amount of resources that are hard to maintain.

11. Gas stations - steal the fuel and oil.

great for the first 6 months to a year but what does one do when the fuel becomes unstable?

12. Tire stores - tires are useful for armor. Also, the rims can be stacked and used as building material.

and used tire weights have the ideal amount of impurity to be cast into slugs.

I'm sure there's more, but that's a good starting point.

/Sub

Well when it becomes unstable start hitting up the fast food joints and grocery stores. Bottled oils last a really long time before they go rancid (several years at least). With little modification you can run a diesel engine on veggie oil and some of the other cooking oils will work as well.

For that matter its easy enough to make some oils such as peanut oil, olive oil, veggie oil, etc. Get a couple of books from those afore mentioned libraries, get a nice growing patch and you've got ready access to oils that you can use to either brew biodiesel or else just run it on veggie oil. This sounds more like a medium/largish safe haven community product, but its also a fun idea for what some of the larger safe haven communities might start doing...making their own biodiesel and vegetable oils and selling/bartering them to survivors.

For me this is the exact reason why I would source me a diesel engined car or truck. It doesn't work for your motorcycles (never seen or heard of a diesel powered motorcycle), but for them...alcohol. You have to modify the fuel system and carb/injectors to function with ethanol or methanol more then about 5-10% pure, but it isn't that difficult and once you are done it isn't to hard to brew up some 80-90% pure ethanol. That is pure enough that you can run an engine on it (10% water isn't going to cause any significant problems if the fuel system and fuel tuning is modified to accept it, afterall there are water injection systems for forced induction motors out there). There you go, use alcohol to run your motorcycles (sorry, even high proof liquor isn't going to be pure enough, we are talking several times distilled moonshine needed, or rubbing alcohol) and biodiesel or veggie oil to run your diesel truck/bus/van.
-Matt

PS this brings up something I've been working on, a vehicle modification 'annex' for DR. I am working on modification rules, thoughts, etc on modifying different vehicles and how to do it. Example adding armored slats to windows, adding vehicle push bars, zed plows, weapons, engine modifications, etc.

The army has a Diesel Motorcycle (at least the marines do)

there is also this

Gotta agree with you on the pet store raid...Veterinarian I talked to who was also an Alaskan bush-pilot admitted he kept a bag of dry dog-kibble in his plane...for himself...if he went down in the wilderness, he'd have, pound-for-pound, the most nutritious iron rations available...no heating, no hydration, no can to have to cut through, and ready to go.....

cyber-yukongil v2.5 wrote:all pretty savy but that last part entails a lot of potential danger as some of those people could still be alive and a little triggerhappy with prowlers.

Well, you not only know where there's survival gear, but if you're smart(and lucky), you could also pick up a few well-armed allies if anybody in that area also survived the wave....if not, you'll have at least a fair assessment of who NOT to approach or trust in the future...

rat_bastard wrote:I need the skills demolitions and basic electronics for an idea I came up with, basically since zombies are attracted to noise, light and movement and have no common sense.

It seems like outfitting satchel charges with strobes, Christmas lights and cheap music players (and possibly hamsters in a cage) to attract a crowd and then when it gets to be standing room only detonate the entire package.

seems like an efficient and spectacular way to thin the zombie population.

Reminds me of "Operation: More Cow Bell".

We had a GM want to run a Dead Reign game. All of us players were military (as was the GM) so we basically played versions of ourselves, with the same jobs as we have on base. We started playing the day the dead rose.

Suffice it to say we were put into a position where we were orchestrating the local military response.

We would stuff a cow into an armored trailer where the Zombies could see, smell and hear it. Then we had engineering variants of M113's slowly drag these trailers through town. The zombies would swarm and follow the M113's. The Zombies were all collected to large fields where the M113's would drop their trailers through a mechanism within the vehicle and then accelerate out of the area much faster than the Zombies could follow. Zombies being the mindless creatures they are quickly turned their attention back to the cows.

Thus collected, we dropped 500lb bombs on their heads using C-18's.

We devised variants of this strategy that civies without the same assets we had at our disposal.

Mostly it was fun turning a supposed strength of the Zombies into their biggest weakness.

Cybermancer wrote:

rat_bastard wrote:I need the skills demolitions and basic electronics for an idea I came up with, basically since zombies are attracted to noise, light and movement and have no common sense.

It seems like outfitting satchel charges with strobes, Christmas lights and cheap music players (and possibly hamsters in a cage) to attract a crowd and then when it gets to be standing room only detonate the entire package.

seems like an efficient and spectacular way to thin the zombie population.

Reminds me of "Operation: More Cow Bell".

We had a GM want to run a Dead Reign game. All of us players were military (as was the GM) so we basically played versions of ourselves, with the same jobs as we have on base. We started playing the day the dead rose.

Suffice it to say we were put into a position where we were orchestrating the local military response.

We would stuff a cow into an armored trailer where the Zombies could see, smell and hear it. Then we had engineering variants of M113's slowly drag these trailers through town. The zombies would swarm and follow the M113's. The Zombies were all collected to large fields where the M113's would drop their trailers through a mechanism within the vehicle and then accelerate out of the area much faster than the Zombies could follow. Zombies being the mindless creatures they are quickly turned their attention back to the cows.

Thus collected, we dropped 500lb bombs on their heads using C-18's.

We devised variants of this strategy that civies without the same assets we had at our disposal.

Mostly it was fun turning a supposed strength of the Zombies into their biggest weakness.

How did you deal with clogged streets and armed human resistance?

rat_bastard wrote:

Cybermancer wrote:

rat_bastard wrote:I need the skills demolitions and basic electronics for an idea I came up with, basically since zombies are attracted to noise, light and movement and have no common sense.

It seems like outfitting satchel charges with strobes, Christmas lights and cheap music players (and possibly hamsters in a cage) to attract a crowd and then when it gets to be standing room only detonate the entire package.

seems like an efficient and spectacular way to thin the zombie population.

Reminds me of "Operation: More Cow Bell".

We had a GM want to run a Dead Reign game. All of us players were military (as was the GM) so we basically played versions of ourselves, with the same jobs as we have on base. We started playing the day the dead rose.

Suffice it to say we were put into a position where we were orchestrating the local military response.

We would stuff a cow into an armored trailer where the Zombies could see, smell and hear it. Then we had engineering variants of M113's slowly drag these trailers through town. The zombies would swarm and follow the M113's. The Zombies were all collected to large fields where the M113's would drop their trailers through a mechanism within the vehicle and then accelerate out of the area much faster than the Zombies could follow. Zombies being the mindless creatures they are quickly turned their attention back to the cows.

Thus collected, we dropped 500lb bombs on their heads using C-18's.

We devised variants of this strategy that civies without the same assets we had at our disposal.

Mostly it was fun turning a supposed strength of the Zombies into their biggest weakness.

How did you deal with clogged streets and armed human resistance?

The streets weren't clogged as most people who could drive were already dead and walking zombies. The few cars in the way were pushed off the road* with the dozer blades of the engineering M113's. Ditto for zombies who got in the way. Actually there were large zombie casualties just from being run over.

And there was no armed human resistance for so many reasons.

One, this is set in Canada. There aren't a lot of privately owned firearms here as compared to other countries. Furthermore, Canadian's don't generally become armed resistors. Canadians also have a tendency to obey lawful authority, even during a crisis. Especially during a crisis. Also, as this was happening within a very short period (less than a week) after the dead rising, there really wasn't time for civilians to start actively opposing the people trying to save them (not that it would be logical for them to 'resist' that in any case). And finally, there were a couple of armed maniacs that the GM threw in for kicks. They were quite ineffective against our armored vehicles and helicopters.

*In Bosnia it wasn't uncommon to have armored vehicles with dozer blades push vehicles out of the way.

Offices and other places with vending machines.

You'd think at first that a vending machine doesn't have much in the way of food in it, but the average one has around 40 different selections and they are generally packed in there about 20-25 deep. At around 200-300 calories per selection (candy bar, crackers, chips, danish, etc) you've got yourself some well preserved food for a single person for about three months if the vending machine was completely full. No hint of nutrition, but it'll keep you alive for awhile. Combine that with a soda machine and you have beverages to keep you hydrated for at least a couple of weeks. Of course you have to have a way to haul all of that off.
-Matt

2 things cyber, 1 a higher percentage of Canadians are gun owners than Americans (though I believe there are more American gun owners than Canadian gun owners) and two I was referring to crazies, Death Cultists and retro tribal idiots. All they would need to do is render your vehicle's immobile with an IED and let the zombies sort you out.

azazel1024 wrote:Offices and other places with vending machines.

You'd think at first that a vending machine doesn't have much in the way of food in it, but the average one has around 40 different selections and they are generally packed in there about 20-25 deep. At around 200-300 calories per selection (candy bar, crackers, chips, danish, etc) you've got yourself some well preserved food for a single person for about three months if the vending machine was completely full. No hint of nutrition, but it'll keep you alive for awhile. Combine that with a soda machine and you have beverages to keep you hydrated for at least a couple of weeks. Of course you have to have a way to haul all of that off.
-Matt

Nice idea, but those are going to be hit within 24 hours of electricity not working.

Better to hit the warehouse of the company that stocks the vending machine.

rat_bastard wrote:2 things cyber, 1 a higher percentage of Canadians are gun owners than Americans (though I believe there are more American gun owners than Canadian gun owners) and two I was referring to crazies, Death Cultists and retro tribal idiots. All they would need to do is render your vehicle's immobile with an IED and let the zombies sort you out.

Did I make a direct comparison to America? I don't believe I did.

As for the rest, given the timeframe, those elements simply weren't a concern as yet. And even if they had, there's no garuntee any of those factions would have the expertise required to be making IED's. And they wouldn't have had time to do so, even if they did have the expertise.

Speed and aggression are your friends in combat.

Cybermancer wrote:

rat_bastard wrote:2 things cyber, 1 a higher percentage of Canadians are gun owners than Americans (though I believe there are more American gun owners than Canadian gun owners) and two I was referring to crazies, Death Cultists and retro tribal idiots. All they would need to do is render your vehicle's immobile with an IED and let the zombies sort you out.

Did I make a direct comparison to America? I don't believe I did.

One, this is set in Canada. There aren't a lot of privately owned firearms here as compared to other countries.

Close enough.

As for the rest, given the timeframe, those elements simply weren't a concern as yet. And even if they had, there's no garuntee any of those factions would have the expertise required to be making IED's. And they wouldn't have had time to do so, even if they did have the expertise.

Speed and aggression are your friends in combat.

Presumably the death cults where preparing for this sort of thing for years before the end times.

rat_bastard wrote:

azazel1024 wrote:Offices and other places with vending machines.

You'd think at first that a vending machine doesn't have much in the way of food in it, but the average one has around 40 different selections and they are generally packed in there about 20-25 deep. At around 200-300 calories per selection (candy bar, crackers, chips, danish, etc) you've got yourself some well preserved food for a single person for about three months if the vending machine was completely full. No hint of nutrition, but it'll keep you alive for awhile. Combine that with a soda machine and you have beverages to keep you hydrated for at least a couple of weeks. Of course you have to have a way to haul all of that off.
-Matt

Nice idea, but those are going to be hit within 24 hours of electricity not working.

Better to hit the warehouse of the company that stocks the vending machine.

Easy to find ones probably. Places like auto dealerships, small office buildings, etc possibly not. Not to many survivors are going to go scavaging through an office building or small office park. In general what would there be to find? Office supplies? Maybe some vehicles? Also most stores have vending machines in the employee lounges, so while you are in the store check out the employee lounge. Even a place like Best Buy, JoAnn Fabric and the sort are likely to have one or more vending machine in their employee lounge. Especially if the store has been looted or even if it has been there is a good chance that the vending machine is intact.
-Matt

It just occurred to me that Fabric stores are a decent place to loot. if only for clothing patching gear.

rat_bastard wrote:

Cybermancer wrote:

rat_bastard wrote:2 things cyber, 1 a higher percentage of Canadians are gun owners than Americans (though I believe there are more American gun owners than Canadian gun owners) and two I was referring to crazies, Death Cultists and retro tribal idiots. All they would need to do is render your vehicle's immobile with an IED and let the zombies sort you out.

Did I make a direct comparison to America? I don't believe I did.

Cybermancer wrote:One, this is set in Canada. There aren't a lot of privately owned firearms here as compared to other countries.

Close enough.

No. It is not. A direct comparison was deliberately left out. If you read America into it, then that's your bag, not mine.

rat_bastard wrote:

Cybermancer wrote:As for the rest, given the timeframe, those elements simply weren't a concern as yet. And even if they had, there's no garuntee any of those factions would have the expertise required to be making IED's. And they wouldn't have had time to do so, even if they did have the expertise.

Speed and aggression are your friends in combat.

Presumably the death cults where preparing for this sort of thing for years before the end times.

That is your presumption. It was not the one made at our table. It is just as likely that the death cultists started popping up as a result of the end times as opposed to causing the end times.

rat_bastard wrote:Toy stores: Baseball bats, flashlights, personal gaming devices, walkies talkies, mountain bikes and squirt guns (combine a super soaker with lamp oil and have fun!) need I say more?

You can theoretically make a flamethrower out of a super soaker. But it won't last long before the heat melts the plastic and you have burning fluid falling at your feet.
Though if your char is handy, maybe he can replace some of the plastic bits with metal to make it work...

Speaking of cans of spray foam can do the same job...but you have burning sticky goo flying at the zombies instead.
-Matt

Overlord Rikonius wrote:

rat_bastard wrote:Toy stores: Baseball bats, flashlights, personal gaming devices, walkies talkies, mountain bikes and squirt guns (combine a super soaker with lamp oil and have fun!) need I say more?

You can theoretically make a flamethrower out of a super soaker. But it won't last long before the heat melts the plastic and you have burning fluid falling at your feet.
Though if your char is handy, maybe he can replace some of the plastic bits with metal to make it work...

you spray the lamp oil and then toss the road flare.

besides a super soaker flamer is a disposable weapon.

Also.. Hit the Antique stores and second-hand stores/Goodwill. The amount of Tools, oil lamps, and still usable clothing would be well worth it. Also, think about electronics stores like Best Buy or video stores like Blockbuster. These places usually have at least 2 or 3 coolers full of soda and bottled water, as well as snacks. Candy bars may be a bad diet, but they will keep you alive. Also, a place like Best Buy will have lots of tools like screwdrivers, wire cutters etc.

One Last place.. Baby superstores! Babies R Us has entire departments of baby foods and medicinal supplies like sanitizing wipes, first aid kits, etc.. chances are these place won't be first choice for looters. Again.. strained peas and formula aren't 5 star foods, but they WILL keep you alive!

Hound wrote:Also.. Hit the Antique stores and second-hand stores/Goodwill. The amount of Tools, oil lamps, and still usable clothing would be well worth it. Also, think about electronics stores like Best Buy or video stores like Blockbuster. These places usually have at least 2 or 3 coolers full of soda and bottled water, as well as snacks. Candy bars may be a bad diet, but they will keep you alive. Also, a place like Best Buy will have lots of tools like screwdrivers, wire cutters etc.

One Last place.. Baby superstores! Babies R Us has entire departments of baby foods and medicinal supplies like sanitizing wipes, first aid kits, etc.. chances are these place won't be first choice for looters. Again.. strained peas and formula aren't 5 star foods, but they WILL keep you alive!

And they are packed with nutrition (more so then those candy bars).
-Matt

I'd still like to say that I am a loot houses and warehouses not businesses school pf thought, A single house could have 1-10 zombies inside, but it would also have a cornucopia of foodstuffs, possible weapons, survival equipment and tools. Meanwhile the big chain stores get looted by everybody so they get surrounded by zombies and killed which fills them with even more zombies.

I like shade tree mechanics garages, small auto parts stores and general small stores. I mean, not much potential for zombies inside, maybe just a couple, you have an easy view out most of the time (becuase of the small size and big front windows) so you know when you have to book it and most have some pretty useful stuff.

Little towns are still dotted with independent small hardware stores, antique/pawnshops and the sort.

Another thought, gun and target ranges. Not sure that these are going to be the first thing hit up as they aren't as well known as gun stores. Also a number are pretty out in the boonies (relatively speaking). Plenty have lockers for storing your firesticks on site.

Also, since I am suspecting outright looting probably wasn't to high (due to the quick conversion of outright looters), liquor stores and convenience stores could work out well. A lot of them have a gun under the counter or in the back room (or both), tons of semi-perishable (if you call a twinkie perishable) and non-perishable goods, even liquor stores tend to have a bit of food in them.

Grocery stores are also great for obvious reasons, but a less obvious reason is that most of them also have a pharmacy in them. Its only been 5 months since the outbreak, at least if you are going from where the books 'leave off'. Most drugs have a shelf life well beyond 6 months, even most antibiotics so long as they aren't exposed to too much heat or moisture have a shelf life of about 4 years, and frankly most can be taken well past their shelf life (in some cases lasting a decade or so, but with diminished potency). A few of the exceptions are liquid or liquid mix medications (Ampicillin), most of those are 6 months or less (sometimes longer if frozen...which few would be any more).

Also schools. Cafeterias tend to have a lot of non-perishable canned goods in them, most schools have vending machines, plenty of office supplies, sports equipment, science equipment (bunsen burners, beakers, chemicals, etc) and also nurses offices. First aid related stuff mostly, but in most school districts ANY medication has to be given to the school nurse to be dispensed...so the nurses medicine cabinet is likely to have everything from ADHD medication, to antidepresents to antibiotics (Amoxicillin) in it.

Also most older schools and even a number of newer schools have a gravity feed sprinkler system...so lots of water in storage tanks on the roof.
-Matt

Farms can be a good place for food. In addition to the regular canned goods you find in most homes, a lot of farmers I know pickle their own vegetables as well as making jams and similar things that stay good for a long time. My mom makes an event out of it and invites all the women in the family over to can stuff.

Also are the barns. Various animal feeds are consummable by humans and keep a decent amount of time. This is similar to what rat_bastard said up thread about canned dog and cat food.

Barns are often a treasure trove of tools, parts, misc. items put into storage, etc. Some will have old junker pick ups and/or tractors.

And this doesn't include the animals themselves. Depending on time and season, they may have been out to pasture so won't have starved to death. Add in things like corn fields and so forth. Pigs and chickens and cows, oh my!

azazel1024 wrote:Also schools. Cafeterias tend to have a lot of non-perishable canned goods in them, most schools have vending machines, plenty of office supplies, sports equipment, science equipment (bunsen burners, beakers, chemicals, etc) and also nurses offices. First aid related stuff mostly, but in most school districts ANY medication has to be given to the school nurse to be dispensed...so the nurses medicine cabinet is likely to have everything from ADHD medication, to antidepresents to antibiotics (Amoxicillin) in it.

Also most older schools and even a number of newer schools have a gravity feed sprinkler system...so lots of water in storage tanks on the roof.
-Matt

While water does not concern me much (I live in a wet part of the country) a friend has pointed out he can blow up a federal building with the contents of a high school chemistry classroom.

rat_bastard wrote:Another thin non-gun people probably do not know

A .357 revolver is a treasure anyplace where ammo is scarce

you know why? Because a .357 revolver can fire .38 ammunition without any modification whatsoever. The rounds are the same width, but the .357 bullets are a little longer (because they have more powder, the slug is essentially the same). Any gun that can happily use multiple common ammo types is more useful by definition than one that requires a specific shell.

its also cheap to take to the range because you can do your target shooting with the cheaper .38 rounds.

Also every .357 revolver I've seen has been solidly built of stainless steel, which means it can be used as a relatively efficient club if you need to.

I just found out that a .410 revolver (yes that would be a revolver that loads .410 shotgun shells) also loads .45 ammunition, presumably a .410 survival shotgun (single shot break action) could conceivably load .45 as well, but I'm not sure.

rat_bastard wrote:Here is another thing most people probably do not know about.

You need electricity?

Loot an inverter and a deep cycle battery.

....

But honestly, look in your phonebook for places that install solar panels and try to loot those if you want electricty.

it would be stupid to air condition a house but it would allow you to recharge vital tools and upgrade your standard of living.

Coincidentally all thse portable construction signs on the side of the road use 12vdc batteries and solar cells. The roadside is littered with little sources of power.

Just had a thought this morning driving in to work. Landscaping companies. Hit those up. I mean who the heck is going to want to? They've got fertilizers (frequently), tons of gasoline in convient containers, tons to syphon from mowers, trimmers, etc. Also many have gardening implements such as hoes, rakes, shovels, etc. Perfect for some quickie and good hand weapons, gasoline for transport, fertilizer for crops and probably decent farming implements to farm with. Also most tend to use good pickup trucks to haul their stuff and to haul trailers. Great for some quick off roading vehicles and the trailers, if you don't have to off road, are going to be great to carry a bunch of extra supplies back to your hideaway. Some bigger landscaping companies might have a machine shop at their headquarters and also might have diesel/gasoline pumps/tanks. Many also have large pickup bed mounted water tanks that could be used for hauling a bunch of water (that they might already have on site) or else filled with gasoline (for a bit more temporary storage).
-Matt

You should not forget your local municipal airport. It has a lot of things going for it.

1. Fencing - It is generally completely fenced in, unless it is a dirt strip.
2. Lots of open space - You can see the hordes of zombie's coming at you for a long while.
3. Control Tower - Easy to spot zombie's, sniper position, radio's, backup generator!
4. Restaurant - Generally there is a restaurant on site.
5. Hangars - What most folks don't know are the following little tidbits:
a) Machine Shop - between all the hangars, you will have a very sizeable machine shop. You can fabricate just about anything.
b) Materials - there is enough material there you can build just about anything
c) Chemicals - well, a high school lab might have things a bit more organized, but you can probably find all but the restricted items there (and even possibly some too!)
d) Hobbyists - most pilots who build an airplane are hobbyist. Not only do they have plane's in there hangar's but some older cars. Older cars are easier to maintain.
6. Fuel - Most Airports have fuel. High octane, non-oxygenated with MTBE or something else. Plus there is almost always a fuel truck!
7. Corporate Hangars - If the airport can support Jets, they have corporate hangars. These hangars are huge! They have offices! And because of that, can easily be reconfigured into a home. Usually if they are privately owned, they also have some rich man's toys - motorcycles, cars, boats. Not to mention private fuel tanks of jet fuel.
8. Government - Sometimes some airports will either have Military or Police located there. This is usually in your smaller airports for the Military Reservists, otherwise it is a Military Airport. Then you have the Paramedics, and if they have a life flight out of that airport, there are paramedic supplies.

Now I have not read Dead Reign, and I am not sure how far a Zombie can sense. But a medium sized airport with about 4 to 6 runways will be a fairly good size piece of real estate. Maybe a square mile. It would have fencing all around - most rent a cars and trucks usually use the parking lot, good supply of vehicles big and small. Then of course the airport will have its own set of vehicles including emergency vehicles such as firetrucks.

If you are looking for a vehicle, I am thinking a plug in hybrid of sorts. Utilize those Solar Cells to charge the battery pack when gasoline is scarce. You can't drive fast, but when your in a scavenging world you may not want to, unless your trying to get away.

It sounds good, but as the books put forth any airport of any real size is going to be infested with zombies (lots of people there, so lots of people to have been turned in to zombies and most are near to big cities or suburbs). So unless you have the resources to clean out an entire airport (with probably anything from hundreds to thousands of zombies in and among the grounds) your stuck with nothing more then the really small strips for primiarly light aircraft. Still plenty of resources, but nothing like one of the bigger municipal, regional or international airports.
-Matt

Tiree wrote:You should not forget your local municipal airport. It has a lot of things going for it.

1. Fencing - It is generally completely fenced in, unless it is a dirt strip.
2. Lots of open space - You can see the hordes of zombie's coming at you for a long while.
3. Control Tower - Easy to spot zombie's, sniper position, radio's, backup generator!
4. Restaurant - Generally there is a restaurant on site.
5. Hangars - What most folks don't know are the following little tidbits:
a) Machine Shop - between all the hangars, you will have a very sizeable machine shop. You can fabricate just about anything.
b) Materials - there is enough material there you can build just about anything
c) Chemicals - well, a high school lab might have things a bit more organized, but you can probably find all but the restricted items there (and even possibly some too!)
d) Hobbyists - most pilots who build an airplane are hobbyist. Not only do they have plane's in there hangar's but some older cars. Older cars are easier to maintain.
6. Fuel - Most Airports have fuel. High octane, non-oxygenated with MTBE or something else. Plus there is almost always a fuel truck!
7. Corporate Hangars - If the airport can support Jets, they have corporate hangars. These hangars are huge! They have offices! And because of that, can easily be reconfigured into a home. Usually if they are privately owned, they also have some rich man's toys - motorcycles, cars, boats. Not to mention private fuel tanks of jet fuel.
8. Government - Sometimes some airports will either have Military or Police located there. This is usually in your smaller airports for the Military Reservists, otherwise it is a Military Airport. Then you have the Paramedics, and if they have a life flight out of that airport, there are paramedic supplies.

Now I have not read Dead Reign, and I am not sure how far a Zombie can sense. But a medium sized airport with about 4 to 6 runways will be a fairly good size piece of real estate. Maybe a square mile. It would have fencing all around - most rent a cars and trucks usually use the parking lot, good supply of vehicles big and small. Then of course the airport will have its own set of vehicles including emergency vehicles such as firetrucks.

If you are looking for a vehicle, I am thinking a plug in hybrid of sorts. Utilize those Solar Cells to charge the battery pack when gasoline is scarce. You can't drive fast, but when your in a scavenging world you may not want to, unless your trying to get away.

Tiree, you are not only correct but looting Dulles International Airport is my recommendation for next session, they not only have a police shooting range but dozens of construction sites. Granted the Terminals will be full of zombies, but they are a bit more complex to leave than normal buildings so the zombies are largely trapped inside.

azazel1024 wrote:It sounds good, but as the books put forth any airport of any real size is going to be infested with zombies (lots of people there, so lots of people to have been turned in to zombies and most are near to big cities or suburbs). So unless you have the resources to clean out an entire airport (with probably anything from hundreds to thousands of zombies in and among the grounds) your stuck with nothing more then the really small strips for primiarly light aircraft. Still plenty of resources, but nothing like one of the bigger municipal, regional or international airports.
-Matt

You are probably looking at International or Larger airports, not the local municipals airports.

Just to let you know, Airports are everywhere. They range from small 1 airstrip to the larger ones. What I am talking about those small municipal airports that have maybe 10 rows of hangars, probably around 200 airplanes or less. My local airport is on the larger size, with about 8 corporate hangars. It used to fly out commercial aviation, but due to lack of interest and the closeness of an international airport it stopped.

Oh I know, I've been to plenty municipal airports. The smaller ones like your talking about would work, but most of the small ones don't have much to offer in the way of terminal services (resteraunt), though I've been to a couple of smaller ones that had something there.

RE: Dulles...good luck. Lots of Suburb around Dulles

If I remember correctly though the air naitonal guard uses Dulles for some stuff (maybe I am thinking of Regan).

Alternately if you want to could hit up the Udvar-Hazzy Air and Space museum right there at Dulles. A lot of the stuff in is running or near running order. Need a space shuttle? SR-71? P-40?
-Matt