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saintsinner wrote:One of my players has decided to play a cyber knight. While I am somewhat familiar with the OCC, the only book other then the core book I can think of to have a bulk of information on them is the CS Tolkeen war book.

I was curious as to if there is a noticeable amount of information on the cyber knights in any other books other then those two. If someone can point me in the right direction I can start trying to filter through them.

saintsinner wrote:One of my players has decided to play a cyber knight. While I am somewhat familiar with the OCC, the only book other then the core book I can think of to have a bulk of information on them is the CS Tolkeen war book.

I was curious as to if there is a noticeable amount of information on the cyber knights in any other books other then those two. If someone can point me in the right direction I can start trying to filter through them.

Munchkin Slappin GM wrote:

Crucible wrote:Lord Coake, I personally would like you (I assume you're a fan of the CK) to tell me what makes the Cyber-Knight so great. Even in RUE its only okay. Was excied to buy the Cyber-Knight Sourcebook and was a little let down. I haven't paid attention to the tweaks in RUE as opposed to the SoT/CK book, so what was the tweak? The Psi-Sword is great if you're in a SDC town, but pull that thing out against a fully armored CS Grunt if you want to.

The Psi-sword is a great weapon if used propperlly, just besause it says sword in the title dosn't mean it has to be a sword, being able to change the shape and type of weapon you are using in combat by a mere thought has an insane amount of uses, and is a great advantage to any PC or NPC, and it should be taken advantage of.

Munchkin Slappin GM wrote:

Crucible wrote:

Munchkin Slappin GM wrote:

Crucible wrote:Lord Coake, I personally would like you (I assume you're a fan of the CK) to tell me what makes the Cyber-Knight so great. Even in RUE its only okay. Was excied to buy the Cyber-Knight Sourcebook and was a little let down. I haven't paid attention to the tweaks in RUE as opposed to the SoT/CK book, so what was the tweak? The Psi-Sword is great if you're in a SDC town, but pull that thing out against a fully armored CS Grunt if you want to.

The Psi-sword is a great weapon if used propperlly, just besause it says sword in the title dosn't mean it has to be a sword, being able to change the shape and type of weapon you are using in combat by a mere thought has an insane amount of uses, and is a great advantage to any PC or NPC, and it should be taken advantage of.

Isn't it so that once you choose the shape, it has to stay that particular shape?

Mack
Thats pretty cool, but what about a Psi-Staker who can use to Vibro-Swords at a time?

NO' you can change the shape at any time, it takes one attack IIRC. So if your opponent moves out of range of your sword you change it to a pole-arm, he tackles you and your on the ground change it to a knife. Psi-Swords are really cool now, aren't they.

Crucible wrote:Mack
Thats pretty cool, but what about a Psi-Staker who can use to Vibro-Swords at a time?

Mack wrote:

Crucible wrote:Mack
Thats pretty cool, but what about a Psi-Staker who can use to Vibro-Swords at a time?

What of it? All Men-at-Arms classes can take WP Paired Weapons, but the CK gets it automatically, plus some other nifty advantages (not counting the anti-Tech ones).

The Psi-Stalker would have to invest in WP Paired Weapons, and the Cyber-Knight has the initial advantage in that both Psi-Swords can be summoned without using his attacks.

Munchkin Slappin GM wrote:

Crucible wrote:

Mack wrote:

Crucible wrote:Mack
Thats pretty cool, but what about a Psi-Staker who can use to Vibro-Swords at a time?

What of it? All Men-at-Arms classes can take WP Paired Weapons, but the CK gets it automatically, plus some other nifty advantages (not counting the anti-Tech ones).

The Psi-Stalker would have to invest in WP Paired Weapons, and the Cyber-Knight has the initial advantage in that both Psi-Swords can be summoned without using his attacks.

I get your point, but what about ambidextrous...that counts.

I do believe that if a charactor is ambidextrous he has PW automaticlly.

Shark_Force wrote:RUE cyber-knight is pretty good. they get a couple of psionic powers even if they aren't psionic (yeah, i dunno how to explain that one).

Novastar wrote:I'd say the original RMB Cyber-knight was more powerful than the current one, if you base it upon what's written in the book.

Yes, the RUE made them anti-tech supermen. But they've always had a ton of solid skills, and an energy sword you can summon at will is a really powerful advantage. And in the RMB, 2d6 MD for a melee weapon was pretty dern good (again, at no cost).

Novastar wrote:I'd say the original RMB Cyber-knight was more powerful than the current one, if you base it upon what's written in the book.

Yes, the RUE made them anti-tech supermen. But they've always had a ton of solid skills, and an energy sword you can summon at will is a really powerful advantage. And in the RMB, 2d6 MD for a melee weapon was pretty dern good (again, at no cost).

Shark_Force wrote:

Novastar wrote:I'd say the original RMB Cyber-knight was more powerful than the current one, if you base it upon what's written in the book.

Yes, the RUE made them anti-tech supermen. But they've always had a ton of solid skills, and an energy sword you can summon at will is a really powerful advantage. And in the RMB, 2d6 MD for a melee weapon was pretty dern good (again, at no cost).

ummm... did you notice the automatic dodge that the new cyberknight can get, by any chance?

Crucible wrote:

Novastar wrote:I'd say the original RMB Cyber-knight was more powerful than the current one, if you base it upon what's written in the book.

Yes, the RUE made them anti-tech supermen. But they've always had a ton of solid skills, and an energy sword you can summon at will is a really powerful advantage. And in the RMB, 2d6 MD for a melee weapon was pretty dern good (again, at no cost).

You can still get a 2d6MD melee weapon. Vibro Sword.

Novastar wrote:

Shark_Force wrote:

Novastar wrote:I'd say the original RMB Cyber-knight was more powerful than the current one, if you base it upon what's written in the book.

Yes, the RUE made them anti-tech supermen. But they've always had a ton of solid skills, and an energy sword you can summon at will is a really powerful advantage. And in the RMB, 2d6 MD for a melee weapon was pretty dern good (again, at no cost).

ummm... did you notice the automatic dodge that the new cyberknight can get, by any chance?

Hence the "anti-tech superman" comment.

Crucible wrote:

Novastar wrote:I'd say the original RMB Cyber-knight was more powerful than the current one, if you base it upon what's written in the book.

Yes, the RUE made them anti-tech supermen. But they've always had a ton of solid skills, and an energy sword you can summon at will is a really powerful advantage. And in the RMB, 2d6 MD for a melee weapon was pretty dern good (again, at no cost).

You can still get a 2d6MD melee weapon. Vibro Sword.

That requires a power cell, is physically apparent on you, and perhaps most importantly, can be destroyed.
Psi-sword for the win.

Ziggurat the Eternal wrote:It immediately goes up at level 2 and 3 I think, and a Master Psychic Cyber-Knight also gets a psi-sword thats nearly as strong as a mind melters. Also, he gets armor that is always on, and can get the same Psi-armors as the Mind Melter, or a few of the other powers. Master Psychic Cyber-Knights can be pretty Epic.

Crucible wrote:

Ziggurat the Eternal wrote:It immediately goes up at level 2 and 3 I think, and a Master Psychic Cyber-Knight also gets a psi-sword thats nearly as strong as a mind melters. Also, he gets armor that is always on, and can get the same Psi-armors as the Mind Melter, or a few of the other powers. Master Psychic Cyber-Knights can be pretty Epic.

No complaints here. I was just wondering how the one in the old book was more powerful than he new one...

Crazy Lou wrote:

Crucible wrote:

Ziggurat the Eternal wrote:It immediately goes up at level 2 and 3 I think, and a Master Psychic Cyber-Knight also gets a psi-sword thats nearly as strong as a mind melters. Also, he gets armor that is always on, and can get the same Psi-armors as the Mind Melter, or a few of the other powers. Master Psychic Cyber-Knights can be pretty Epic.

No complaints here. I was just wondering how the one in the old book was more powerful than he new one...

Oh, hahaha. It wasn't. I think maybe whoever said that meant that it was more powerful relatively (ie: like when RMB was the only book). I still disagree about that too, but I think that's what he meant.

Munchkin Slappin GM wrote:

Jason Richards wrote:Cyber-Knights get a huge advantage in the skills department over any other man-at-arms. When listing their WPs, it really should say "All of them."

People lose sight of what the Cyber-Knight is, in my opinion. The class isn't built to rely on a Psi-Sword. They're called "Cyber-Knights" because they are knights that use technology, armor, high-tech weapons, etc. The thing about them being what is effectively an anti-Coalition character class and having special anti-tech powers is all very revisionist.

The new anti-tech powers do fall in line with them being an anti-CS PC/NPC but it also takes them out of the noble knight wondering the land fighting monsters,who tend to reley on natural abilities making their anti-tech powers moot.

Munchkin Slappin GM wrote:

Crucible wrote:

Munchkin Slappin GM wrote:

Jason Richards wrote:Cyber-Knights get a huge advantage in the skills department over any other man-at-arms. When listing their WPs, it really should say "All of them."

People lose sight of what the Cyber-Knight is, in my opinion. The class isn't built to rely on a Psi-Sword. They're called "Cyber-Knights" because they are knights that use technology, armor, high-tech weapons, etc. The thing about them being what is effectively an anti-Coalition character class and having special anti-tech powers is all very revisionist.

The new anti-tech powers do fall in line with them being an anti-CS PC/NPC but it also takes them out of the noble knight wondering the land fighting monsters,who tend to reley on natural abilities making their anti-tech powers moot.

That was my biggest issue, how is he supposed to fight the supernatural with anti-tech? Made for SoT changes/retcon...

Too true, and unfortunate for the Megaverse.

Munchkin Slappin GM wrote:There seems to be alot of hype about the Minion War. That it might fix stuff in Rifts some how.

I realy don't want to get my hopes up.

Crucible wrote:

Munchkin Slappin GM wrote:

Jason Richards wrote:Cyber-Knights get a huge advantage in the skills department over any other man-at-arms. When listing their WPs, it really should say "All of them."

People lose sight of what the Cyber-Knight is, in my opinion. The class isn't built to rely on a Psi-Sword. They're called "Cyber-Knights" because they are knights that use technology, armor, high-tech weapons, etc. The thing about them being what is effectively an anti-Coalition character class and having special anti-tech powers is all very revisionist.

The new anti-tech powers do fall in line with them being an anti-CS PC/NPC but it also takes them out of the noble knight wondering the land fighting monsters,who tend to reley on natural abilities making their anti-tech powers moot.

That was my biggest issue, how is he supposed to fight the supernatural with anti-tech? Made for SoT changes/retcon...

Mack wrote:Personally, I'd make two sub-classes of Cyber-Knight. The anti-tech version that we have now, and a anti-supernatural version with similar abilities. The only substantial difference would be that a squire would have to choose which path to follow and possibly find a new mentor half-way through his training. Otherwise the two types would freely mingle with each other.

Crazy Lou wrote:

Crucible wrote:

Munchkin Slappin GM wrote:

Jason Richards wrote:Cyber-Knights get a huge advantage in the skills department over any other man-at-arms. When listing their WPs, it really should say "All of them."

People lose sight of what the Cyber-Knight is, in my opinion. The class isn't built to rely on a Psi-Sword. They're called "Cyber-Knights" because they are knights that use technology, armor, high-tech weapons, etc. The thing about them being what is effectively an anti-Coalition character class and having special anti-tech powers is all very revisionist.

The new anti-tech powers do fall in line with them being an anti-CS PC/NPC but it also takes them out of the noble knight wondering the land fighting monsters,who tend to reley on natural abilities making their anti-tech powers moot.

That was my biggest issue, how is he supposed to fight the supernatural with anti-tech? Made for SoT changes/retcon...

Yeah... I never got that either. I agree that anti-SN would've made more sense. Especially considering that the CKs were around and well established way before the CS was a real threat, right?

Munchkin Slappin GM wrote:The founder of the cyber-knights originated in Palladium.

Crazy Lou wrote:

Munchkin Slappin GM wrote:The founder of the cyber-knights originated in Palladium.

Is that in the SoT book?

Munchkin Slappin GM wrote:

Mack wrote:

Crazy Lou wrote:

Munchkin Slappin GM wrote:The founder of the cyber-knights originated in Palladium.

Is that in the SoT book?

No, it's not. I'm curious where he got that from.

It is in the SoT cyber-knights book, Lord Coake came from palladium, thats why he has all the cool magic items and a longer than normal lifespan.

Munchkin Slappin GM wrote:

Crazy Lou wrote:I don't have that book, so I don't know. But regardless, the CK class isn't a Palladium one, which means Coake must've developed the class once he got to Rifts Earth, which still puts its development well before any sort of powerful, threatening, tech society existed. Their original purpose was more monster/SN/magic alligned. Protecting the innocent little people from the crazy stuff from the rifts and the chaos that's everywhere right?

Yes you are right. The Cyber-Knight was developed on Rifts earth, it is not a Palladium class and never was, and I never said it was.

Munchkin Slappin GM wrote:

Crazy Lou wrote:I don't have that book, so I don't know. But regardless, the CK class isn't a Palladium one, which means Coake must've developed the class once he got to Rifts Earth, which still puts its development well before any sort of powerful, threatening, tech society existed. Their original purpose was more monster/SN/magic alligned. Protecting the innocent little people from the crazy stuff from the rifts and the chaos that's everywhere right?

Yes you are right. The Cyber-Knight was developed on Rifts earth, it is not a Palladium class and never was, and I never said it was.

Prysus wrote:It talks about it again at page 75 where it goes into Lord Coake's write up. It doesn't say the Palladium World by name, but it's fairly clear. It mentions a world of magic, knights, kings and queens, as well as the world "Goblin, Ogre, Wolfen, Elf" originated from his homeworld. Also, he's a member of the Defilers (which is from the Palladium World).

sennin wrote:They may not mention Palladium specifically for a few reasons. First, what if the only PB game that the reader knows about is Rifts? It does not help much to say "Lord Coake hails from Palladium." Also, it could be for fluff reasons - adds a bit of "mystery" to his background. But, as mentioned before, he was a member of the Defilers. The Defilers are a Palladium group. If A=B and B=C, then A=C.

Crucible wrote:You guys will carelessly argue over anything. He is not from Rifts Earth, the tech was low, KS was the GM using Palladium...he is an Anti Tech savant...makes no sense, but who cares...geez.

Prysus wrote:P.S. I don't believe Kevin has ever officially called it the Palladium World in fluff text before. For some reason I always got the feeling he avoided giving it a name (in fluff). Though it is called that a few times in the Palladium Fantasy main book (because it needs to be referrred to as something in the book, just never in fluff).[/justify]

Mack wrote:

Crucible wrote:You guys will carelessly argue over anything. He is not from Rifts Earth, the tech was low, KS was the GM using Palladium...he is an Anti Tech savant...makes no sense, but who cares...geez.

According to p21 of SoT4, the Cyber-Knight abilities did not manifest until well after Lord Coake arrived on Rifts Earth, and required the help of a Chiang-Ku dragon.

Crucible wrote:

Mack wrote:

Crucible wrote:You guys will carelessly argue over anything. He is not from Rifts Earth, the tech was low, KS was the GM using Palladium...he is an Anti Tech savant...makes no sense, but who cares...geez.

According to p21 of SoT4, the Cyber-Knight abilities did not manifest until well after Lord Coake arrived on Rifts Earth, and required the help of a Chiang-Ku dragon.

Never said this was incorrect. My ONLY point is that he came from a Palladium-like world (since I have to be uber specific at this board in order to be understood one iota), came to Rifts Earth before tech was a major issue and suddenly his guys are Buffy the Techie Slayers? Why? Why not magic banes, or SN bashers? Whatever. I'm done anyways and losing patience with many of the responses here. Its like talking to droids.