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N&SS: Shadow Wars

Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 6:23 pm
by Beatmeclever
I am almost done with this. I am going to submit it to the Rifter or simply submit it as a supplement as soon as it is done, but I wanted to get some opinions first:
The World of Shadow Wars
Ninjas and Superspies is set in the modern world; it is the world you already think you know. Terrorists have attacked the World Trade Center in Manhattan. They have killed thousands of American citizens. The US has gone to war in Southwest Asia. This world seems so much like ours; however, the truth is so much more dangerous than you ever thought possible. The attacks on September 11, 2001 were simply one small number of the many in the clandestine war being waged around the world between the forces of terror and domination and the agencies of peace and self-determination.

It is a world in which a secret war is waged between the many shadow organizations of the world. Some of these organizations are under the control of the various governments of the world while others are self-controlled. This war is one of ideologies, it is one of politics, and it is even one of personal revenge. The soldiers in this war know that without the conflict the world would fall into a war that would destroy all of civilization. The Shadow War saves progress from itself. Technology is much more advanced than anyone ever expected, governments make war in the shadows, laws only apply to those not in “The Game,” nothing is easily understood, and nothing and no one can be trusted.

In the world of Ninjas and Superspies it would be impossible for any agency in the world to conduct its operations without the capabilities of the Special Operations Forces of the world. In the clandestine war, these Special Operators are the enforcement arms of the espionage agencies. In the United States, Special Operations Forces are drawn from the United States Special Operations Command (USSOCOM). In Britain, they are drawn from the ranks of the Royal Marines, the SAS, and SBS. Among the many evil operations the soldiers tend to be mercenaries and the dispossessed. Special Forces are activated when an organization needs results quickly. Those results are normally messy and violent.

Where the function of the superspy is information collection, psychological and political manipulation, and assassination using deep cover methods, black marketers, and criminal agencies, with loose parameters and often a single mission objective, Special Operators understand subtlety, stealth, and the need for secrecy, but they also know that when the time for those ideas has passed, it is time for damage to be done, noise to be made, and locations to be captured, they are always given clear and concise mission goals. These operators are often called to assist other agents on missions of a delicate nature. They are the muscle for many field teams.

They are called in for hostage rescue missions, counter-terror operations, and to quietly take down political organizations that the government sees as a threat. Special Operations endorse unorthodox problem-solving tactics and teaches the operator to understand and accept the responsibility of their actions, to keep a level head, and to get the job done. They are the men who make things happen in the Shadow Wars.


How Special Operations Fits into “The Game”
The Shadow War works a bit differently from a normal game of Ninjas & Superspies. The player characters are not superspies or martial artists; they are soldiers or mercenaries. The difference is in how they perform their duties and it must be taken into account.

Shadow Wars is about team actions. The characters are all members of a team of special operators. Although each may be a troublemaker, one of the reasons they were selected was because they could contribute to the team. This isn’t Rambo or Missing in Action; there are no one-man Special Operations units, no lone man charges into foreign countries to perform some incredibly impossible feat. Special operators aren’t bullet-proof, nor are they super-human. Success or failure is absolutely dependent upon the entire team working together.

Should you still want to play the loner, your game master can still work this into the game. However, both you and the GM should work to make sure your loner’s actions bring death to the rest of the team. As an example, in G.I. Joe: The Movie, Lt. Falcon is unwilling to follow the orders of those above him, even less willing to show them the respect they deserve, these actions lead to Duke being in a coma. They can make for great stories, or they can get the rest of the team killed.
Unlike spy operations, the Shadow Warriors are part of a military unit and are used to receiving orders. This means they follow a different chain of command, even during operations. They do not get the luxury of being able to make the decision of who they go after and when.

It is fortunate for the players, however, that this game’s primary operations group, called SIGMA, has a relatively flat command structure, other than the General, his executive staff, and a selected team leader – most of the operators are Sergeant or better or they are low ranking officers. In the field, the soldier with the most experience is always differed to for direction. Egos can be a problem, but the nature of the mission and the consequences for failing to follow orders keeps most soldiers in line.

When a mission is first brought to the Special Operations teams the operation orders (OPORD) are general. It is left to the individual teams to draw-up their mission plan as they see fit, so long as they stay within the OPORDs. This allows the operators more control over the mission when things change in the field.

Talking about bending the rules versus getting someone killed, the soldiers of the Shadow War are exposed to more constant action and high-powered weapons than a superspy or martial artist which will bring on more casualties. While the constant threat of death can be exhilarating, incessantly rolling up new characters is not fun, but it is a grim reality of warfare.

However, as the characters are part of an elite unit, a single mistake doesn’t have to result in the death of the character or the entire team. If the mistake was due to a bad die roll, the GM should feel free to fudge as he sees fit; although it is also true that there are times when the players will appreciate it all the more getting into the thick and getting back out with a great story to tell later.

One of the best advantages of the Black Ops campaign is that, unlike spy or martial arts action, the player characters are most often going to know who their enemy is and what kind of combat they will see. The terrorist threat is omnipresent and will always be available when the action lulls on a long campaign. Asp is always enacting a plan somewhere in the world and should be a constant idea in the backs of the player’s minds. Even when they run across another terrorist, they could find connections to Asp.

Still, there will be times when the connection isn’t there or it is old – perhaps a paramilitary organization that was unaware they were being used as an Asp front. Likewise, regular military, law enforcement, and civilian authorities can become the obstacle. Friendly organizations don’t like being overstepped or circumvented and they can hinder any kind of investigation or combat operation. This can lead to interesting three- or four-way battles as the different groups come together in the cramped urban spaces that so often accompany the world of the Shadow War.


I have a description of the types of actions taken on by Special Operations Forces, a sample Special Operations unit and a new terrorist threat, a new OCC - the Commando Operator, new skills, hybrid martial arts and combatives, secret societies, organized crime syndicates, and terrorist organizations, new cybernetics, and genetic modifications.

I will post a few more pieces the closer in the next few days. Let me know what you think of the idea.

Re: N&SS: Shadow Wars

Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:03 pm
by Mercalocalypse
Cool idea, Im interested to see the OCC.

Re: N&SS: Shadow Wars

Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 4:29 pm
by Mantisking
Beatmeclever wrote:I have a description of the types of actions taken on by Special Operations Forces, a sample Special Operations unit and a new terrorist threat, a new OCC - the Commando Operator, new skills, hybrid martial arts and combatives, secret societies, organized crime syndicates, and terrorist organizations, new cybernetics, and genetic modifications.

Why a new OCC? Can't you make do with the Commando O.C.C. or Veteran O.C.C.?

Re: N&SS: Shadow Wars

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:51 am
by Beatmeclever
Mantisking wrote:Why a new OCC? Can't you make do with the Commando O.C.C. or Veteran O.C.C.?

The Commando Operator OCC includes MOSs (like the CSAR Specialist, Computer Network Specialist, Force Recon, Naval Amphibious Assault Specialist, Rapid Deployment Assault Specialist, and the Sniper/Scout, among others) that allow for a little "GI Joe-type" action. I just couldn't get the same action out of the Commando Mercenary or the Veteran Grunt.

Re: N&SS: Shadow Wars

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:34 am
by Mantisking
Beatmeclever wrote:The Commando Operator OCC includes MOSs (like the CSAR Specialist, Computer Network Specialist, Force Recon, Naval Amphibious Assault Specialist, Rapid Deployment Assault Specialist, and the Sniper/Scout, among others) that allow for a little "GI Joe-type" action. I just couldn't get the same action out of the Commando Mercenary or the Veteran Grunt.


Five Skill Programs and a Martial Art and you couldn't get a "G.I.Joe type" character? I can understand not being able to do it with the Commando Mercenary since the O.C.C. is screwed up, but not being able to do it with a Veteran Grunt?

Re: N&SS: Shadow Wars

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:08 pm
by Beatmeclever
Mantisking wrote:Five Skill Programs and a Martial Art and you couldn't get a "G.I.Joe type" character? I can understand not being able to do it with the Commando Mercenary since the O.C.C. is screwed up, but not being able to do it with a Veteran Grunt?
Nope. The Vet gets 3 Military Skill Programs and one General program or Espionage Program, but that means Lifeline was impossible since he has at least one Medical Skill Program, Zap was an Engineer and a soldier as were several other members of the Joes, several other Joes should have both Military Skill Programs and Basic Programs. All of this could be fixed with simple rule changes, but once you start to change an OCC it stops being the same OCC and it becomes a new one. SO... The Commando Operator OCC.

EDIT: OK, so the earlier question got me to thinking and I guess I could have just created a few more Military Skill Programs... and that's kinda what I did... but I included them in the OCC and called them MOSs. So, I will be thinking about the OCC vs the Skill Program route. Although because the Skill Program method is the traditional N&SS method it is already taking the lead in my thoughts. Thanks MK.

Re: N&SS: Shadow Wars

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:00 pm
by Mercalocalypse
If you want to get picky you cant accurately make a US SF type character with the N&SS book alone because it is missing some skills. Static line parachuting, camouflage and SERE come to mind. There was a Rifter that had some great SOF skills and OCCs I forget the number. I used to use skill programs as schools for example: Advanced Infantry= Ranger school, but that still needs tweeking.
Desertrat posted some great skill programs in the Recon thread.

Re: N&SS: Shadow Wars

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:15 pm
by Beatmeclever
Mercalocalypse wrote:If you want to get picky you cant accurately make a US SF type character with the N&SS book alone because it is missing some skills. Static line parachuting, camouflage and SERE come to mind. There was a Rifter that had some great SOF skills and OCCs I forget the number. I used to use skill programs as schools for example: Advanced Infantry= Ranger school, but that still needs tweeking.
Desertrat posted some great skill programs in the Recon thread.

Yeah, (see edit, above) I kinda came to that too, I guess. Thanks again for the questions. Any others?

Re: N&SS: Shadow Wars

Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:29 am
by Mantisking
Beatmeclever wrote:Nope. The Vet gets 3 Military Skill Programs and one General program or Espionage Program, but that means Lifeline was impossible since he has at least one Medical Skill Program, Zap was an Engineer and a soldier as were several other members of the Joes, several other Joes should have both Military Skill Programs and Basic Programs. All of this could be fixed with simple rule changes, but once you start to change an OCC it stops being the same OCC and it becomes a new one. SO... The Commando Operator OCC.

Actually, he gets four Military Skill Programs including the Basic Military SP. I'll look at my G.I. Joe "Order of Battle" book tonight to check on what you're saying. And from what I remember, Lifeline started out as a civilian then joined the military so he really should be another O.C.C. I'd suggest Operative Agent as that should cover the Skill Programs neccesary to build him.

Beatmeclever wrote:EDIT: OK, so the earlier question got me to thinking and I guess I could have just created a few more Military Skill Programs... and that's kinda what I did... but I included them in the OCC and called them MOSs. So, I will be thinking about the OCC vs the Skill Program route. Although because the Skill Program method is the traditional N&SS method it is already taking the lead in my thoughts.

That really should be the way to go. There's enough space to create new Skill Programs that a new O.C.C. isn't needed.

Beatmeclever wrote:Thanks MK.

No problem.

Re: N&SS: Shadow Wars

Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:08 pm
by Beatmeclever
You are correct, both Doc and Lifeline were civilian medical professionals before joining the military and subsequently the Joes. However, Stalker is a Medic and there is no way for either the Vet or the commando to be medics. But that is now remedied:
Combat Medic Skill Program: The character with this skill program specializes in field medicine and trauma stabilization. The skills here are used by Assault Forces and Special Forces all over the world to provide care to wounded soldiers.
Biology (+10%)
Field Surgery (+15%)
Forensics (+10%)
Medical: Any One (1) of Choice (+15%, except Medical Doctor)
Paramedic (+20%)
Science: Two of Choice (+10%)
W.P.: Knife

I already have about ten more Military Skill Programs and two Medical Skill Programs. I'm making a few more.

Re: N&SS: Shadow Wars

Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:33 am
by Mantisking
Beatmeclever wrote:You are correct, both Doc and Lifeline were civilian medical professionals before joining the military and subsequently the Joes. However, Stalker is a Medic and there is no way for either the Vet or the commando to be medics.

Hmmnn, maybe a Basic Skill Program based around the First Aid skill could be made.

Beatmeclever wrote:But that is now remedied:
Combat Medic Skill Program: The character with this skill program specializes in field medicine and trauma stabilization. The skills here are used by Assault Forces and Special Forces all over the world to provide care to wounded soldiers.
Biology (+10%)
Field Surgery (+15%)
Forensics (+10%)
Medical: Any One (1) of Choice (+15%, except Medical Doctor)
Paramedic (+20%)
Science: Two of Choice (+10%)
W.P.: Knife

I have a few questions. Why the additional Medical skill when you already have Paramedic and Field Surgery? And is it you can't choose Medical Doctor or that Medical Doctor doesn't get the bonus? Also, why the additional Science skills when they already have Biology and the others in the category don't really fit? Lastly, W.P. Knife? Is this supposed to represent skill with a scalpel?

Beatmeclever wrote:I already have about ten more Military Skill Programs and two Medical Skill Programs. I'm making a few more.

I'm looking forward to seeing them.

Re: N&SS: Shadow Wars

Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:36 pm
by Beatmeclever
Thanks for your questions.
Mantisking wrote:
Beatmeclever wrote:You are correct, both Doc and Lifeline were civilian medical professionals before joining the military and subsequently the Joes. However, Stalker is a Medic and there is no way for either the Vet or the commando to be medics.

Hmmnn, maybe a Basic Skill Program based around the First Aid skill could be made.
Perhaps, but the skill I presented allows for it.

Beatmeclever wrote:But that is now remedied:
Combat Medic Skill Program: The character with this skill program specializes in field medicine and trauma stabilization. The skills here are used by Assault Forces and Special Forces all over the world to provide care to wounded soldiers.
Biology (+10%)
Field Surgery (+15%)
Forensics (+10%)
Medical: Any One (1) of Choice (+15%, except Medical Doctor)
Paramedic (+20%)
Science: Two of Choice (+10%)
W.P.: Knife (Scalpel)

I have a few questions. Why the additional Medical skill when you already have Paramedic and Field Surgery? And is it you can't choose Medical Doctor or that Medical Doctor doesn't get the bonus? Also, why the additional Science skills when they already have Biology and the others in the category don't really fit? Lastly, W.P. Knife? Is this supposed to represent skill with a scalpel?
I am including several skills from other Palladium games so there are skills like "Brewing" and "Holistic Medicine," so if the player wants other not-so-normal medical abilities they are available. The Science skills allow for the character to have knowledge that would help with those not-so-normal abilities - such as "Chemistry" or "Botany." W.P. Knife is meant to show proficiency with a scalpel.

Beatmeclever wrote:I already have about ten more Military Skill Programs and two Medical Skill Programs. I'm making a few more.

I'm looking forward to seeing them.

Re: N&SS: Shadow Wars

Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 4:05 pm
by Desert Rat
Interesting....

Question: Is this a 'scenario world' you are establishing or are you trying to base it on reality...or lets say as close as possible?

Regarding the new OCC's, you all need to get a new GM if yours is so anal he will not allow minor deviations to create the realistic character.

Re: N&SS: Shadow Wars

Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 6:54 pm
by Beatmeclever
Desert Rat wrote:Interesting....

Question: Is this a 'scenario world' you are establishing or are you trying to base it on reality...or lets say as close as possible?

Regarding the new OCC's, you all need to get a new GM if yours is so anal he will not allow minor deviations to create the realistic character.

Really I just figured if I presented information on small units and military formations, along with new skills and military combatives, and a few evil organizations that would all be trying to take over the world, change the world order, or simply sow chaos, as well as one "big bad" organization that sponsors, funds, trains, and even sometimes plans for the smaller bad guys, that people would get something out of it. Mystic China was a book on Martial Arts; this is one on Soldiers/Mercenaries - I have plans for a book on Gizmoteers too. Just something to draw people into N&SS. Make or use this stuff in whatever setting you want.

As for GMs, there are some out there that are real rules nazis, you know. This is meant to be accepted by all groups that want it.

Re: N&SS: Shadow Wars

Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:23 am
by Desert Rat
Cool,

Are you writing an article for Rifters or is this something more meatier in which you would plan on releasing as a supplemental in book and/or PDF form? The reason why I ask is that I have been considering writing a Merc Supplemental for PDF since no one in the RPG world actually knows what they are writing about. Unfortunately, I have another project which I need to finish first, one that almost every N&SS fan wants done. Additionally, I would like to see the release of Warpath to get it to fit within that game, but I ain't holding my breath on that one actually happening any time soon. Here are my ideas for a Merc Supplemental:

    1) The basic overview of Special Operations Forces (SOF) and how they are employed for governments from a theoretical aspect (strategic versus operational versus tactical) to actual mission sets (DA, SR, UW, FID, CBT, CSAR, CRE, ETC...).
    2) Reprint of skill programs released through numerous PB publications as well as new ones. See some here.
    3) A description of SOF units throughout the world with a brief description of how they are employed.
    4) SOF weapons, vehicles and equipment (this is the monster that will be very helpful for multiple games)
    5) Agencies (this will eventually lead into my enemy secret society supplemental)

Re: N&SS: Shadow Wars

Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 3:08 pm
by Beatmeclever
Desert Rat wrote:Cool,

Are you writing an article for Rifters or is this something more meatier in which you would plan on releasing as a supplemental in book and/or PDF form? The reason why I ask is that I have been considering writing a Merc Supplemental for PDF since no one in the RPG world actually knows what they are writing about. Unfortunately, I have another project which I need to finish first, one that almost every N&SS fan wants done. Additionally, I would like to see the release of Warpath to get it to fit within that game, but I ain't holding my breath on that one actually happening any time soon. Here are my ideas for a Merc Supplemental:

    1) The basic overview of Special Operations Forces (SOF) and how they are employed for governments from a theoretical aspect (strategic versus operational versus tactical) to actual mission sets (DA, SR, UW, FID, CBT, CSAR, CRE, ETC...).
    2) Reprint of skill programs released through numerous PB publications as well as new ones. See some here.
    3) A description of SOF units throughout the world with a brief description of how they are employed.
    4) SOF weapons, vehicles and equipment (this is the monster that will be very helpful for multiple games)
    5) Agencies (this will eventually lead into my enemy secret society supplemental)

I think you and I are on the same path with this. I was planning to send it to Palladium as an unsolicited manuscript, but the Rifter would be an option as well (if they'll print something that big in a Rifter).
    1) I have the basic overview completed along with descriptions of the missions and which teams are used for which missions with the most success. I have included descriptions of which skill programs create each of the types of operators (Special Forces, SEAL, Combat Control, Force Recon, SAS, GIGN, GSG9, etc.).
    2) I have come up with several new skill programs as well as reprinting some from other sources, as well, I updated a couple of the old ones (just to bring them into the modern era). After the discussion above about OCCs, I came up with skill programs that, when put together in the right ways, can make any of the operators we know and love, but I'd like to add in qualification schools for addition as the characters advance (still working on that).
    3) I was going to put the different CT groups in the section about groups that might be run in to in different parts of the world. As well I have a fictional organization called SIGMA (Special Intervention Group -Mobile Assault) Command. I have a list of fictional Organizations to be used as bad guys, but like you, that might need to be a different book.
    4) This is the part I'm on now. I'm inventing vehicles for the SIGMA and I have modern weapons done and I'm getting into wheeled vehicles now. I'm just going to give one or two vehicles of each (otherwise it gets too big, although an equipment supplement has already started itself; I'll get into it heavy when this is done).
    5) I guess I adressed this above.

I put the idea on here to get ideas and help. I want this to be what we have been looking for for N&SS, so if you want to collaborate PM me and we can get the ideas together. This goes for anyone, really.

Edit: OK, I got ahold of Rifter #25, WOW! Most of what I needed was in there. I guess I don't need half of what I had planned. More later.

Re: N&SS: Shadow Wars

Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 5:22 pm
by Desert Rat
To Rifter or not to Rifter would be a matter of size. If you are dealing with a 50+ page supplemental, I highly doubt they would print that in a Rifter. Let me qualify this by saying I have never tried to publish anything in Rifter, so I may be wrong, but if I was the Editor, I wouldn't dedicate that much space to one item.

I love Rifters #25. What I don't like is that it is somewhat geared towards creating the 'specialist' and not really good at creating the well rounded Operator you would find in some spec ops units, aka its very GI Joe. Now granted the author was a fly-boy and his pilot programs are spot on. This has lead me to start building encompassing skill programs representative of a "pipeline" that SOF members would find themselves in.

It always seemed to me that N&SS was meant to be a game played within the Jason Bourne-ish scenario and not the doughnut eating street PI investigating spousal infidelity. That being said, characters should be highly trained and very versatile to handle a variety of operations while not being the jack-of-all-skills. Some will complain about the vastness of skills, but I find it amusing because if you take N&SS the way it is, you cannot create a character with the depth of knowledge that the average SOF operator has, let alone one who is highly trained....well you probably could for a Navy SEAL :P

Now that you have seen #25, don't decrease what you feel should go into the project, it will only decrease the level quality. A true supplemental should be all encompassing and not something which references other products in other sources. If you are looking to produce an unsolicited manuscript submitted to PB rather than self-publishing, it should not be a problem to copy the copyrighted material so long as it is appropriately documented and acknowledged within the credits as I believe PB would hold the rights to the intellectual property.

I am sending you a PM with my email address, but I would like to keep the discussion open in a public forum because I think it enhances games for others.

Re: N&SS: Shadow Wars

Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:40 pm
by Beatmeclever
This is probably gonna be supplement sized. I think it is already too big for Rifter.

My thoughts are that each gaming group should be able to get whatever they want out of this. I want the groups who want 'gritty realism' can have it, while those who want 'comic book' can have that, and so on. I think each group has their own ideas of how they want their game to play.

I have played games that were the "PIs investigating an unfaithful wife run into a secret plot to take over the city," as well as, "Superspies and team track super-villains around the world to final battle at enemy base." Both were fun in their own way.

I have renewed my interest in this project this afternoon. I just got IDWs Classic GI Joe, Volume 5!

DR, I got your PM. Thanks.

I've been thinking about making several new OCCs anyway. Kinda like Mystic China gave us new Martial Artist OCCs.

Re: N&SS: Shadow Wars

Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:31 pm
by slade the sniper
Desert Rat wrote:Some will complain about the vastness of skills, but I find it amusing because if you take N&SS the way it is, you cannot create a character with the depth of knowledge that the average SOF operator has, let alone one who is highly trained....well you probably could for a Navy SEAL :P


Absolutely hilarious!!!! :bandit:

Too True, brother! (too a point...)

-STS

Re: N&SS: Shadow Wars

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:53 am
by NMI
Let us all remember the "No Conversion" rules!

Re: N&SS: Shadow Wars

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:47 pm
by Beatmeclever
Mr. Deific NMI wrote:Let us all remember the "No Conversion" rules!

I'm not making a GI Joe game. I just want to have more versatility with the Soldier classes in N&SS.