From thier Past prior forms .. into other possible lifeforms ?
If so give an example of something that would be totally plausible
And thank you for your time .
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Lenwen wrote:Do you guys think it is "Possible" that some of the Ancient "First" races actually "DE-Evolved" ?
From thier Past prior forms .. into other possible lifeforms ?
If so give an example of something that would be totally plausible
And thank you for your time .
MaxxSterling wrote:They didn't D-Evolve, it's just everything else became MDC and caught up! Cept humans of course... because we always suck.
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:To evolve just to means to change over time.
Not the change the the better over time the way evolutionists want everybody to believe.
glitterboy2098 wrote:but it's hard to see how an intellegent race could loose that intellegence. intellegence, unlike strength or hair or teeth or claws, allows the species to alter their own enviroment, find solutions to problems beyond letting nature select for particular biology. once intellegence manifests, it's such a major survival advantage you'd have to basically invoke act of Deity or intentional breeding for lack of intellegence to see it vanish.
Rallan wrote:Lenwen wrote:Do you guys think it is "Possible" that some of the Ancient "First" races actually "DE-Evolved" ?
From thier Past prior forms .. into other possible lifeforms ?
If so give an example of something that would be totally plausible
And thank you for your time .
Already been done. One of the early Phase World books had stats for a race of semi-intelligent killer apes that are exactly what you're talking about.
Rallan wrote:glitterboy2098 wrote:but it's hard to see how an intellegent race could loose that intellegence. intellegence, unlike strength or hair or teeth or claws, allows the species to alter their own enviroment, find solutions to problems beyond letting nature select for particular biology. once intellegence manifests, it's such a major survival advantage you'd have to basically invoke act of Deity or intentional breeding for lack of intellegence to see it vanish.
It'd be doable. You'd have to not merely take away the technology though, you'd also have to put them in an environment that's on the extreme edge of survivability, with hostile conditions and limited (probably even inadequate) food sources. Basically you're putting 'em in an environment where intelligence and empathy beyond a certain level aren't useful enough to be selected for, physical traits like strength and endurance are, and there's generally little enough nutrition going around that beyond a certain point smarts are gonna be trumped by efficiency.
The only thing where it gets silly with the Killer Apes in Phase World is that they seem to have followed exactly the same evolutionary path on dozens (hundreds? thousands?) of worlds which presumably all have very different environments. Not really something you'd notice unless you think about it, but it is kinda implausible.
Lenwen wrote:Exactly why I am asking .. There is precident for it. And I was curious if those ancient civilizations were soo powerful and advanced why they did not save at least a fraction of thier sociaty .. threw this .. or perhaps another means ?
Lenwen wrote:Do you guys think it is "Possible" that some of the Ancient "First" races actually "DE-Evolved" ?
From thier Past prior forms .. into other possible lifeforms ?
glitterboy2098 wrote:
actually, extreme enviroment, limited food and shelter are both things that would select for increased intelligence, not less. basically, the dumb members are weeded out from the genepool ,since intelligence allows the survivors to find food and shelter easier.
Rallan wrote:glitterboy2098 wrote:
actually, extreme enviroment, limited food and shelter are both things that would select for increased intelligence, not less. basically, the dumb members are weeded out from the genepool ,since intelligence allows the survivors to find food and shelter easier.
No, it would weed out the incompetent members, not the dumb ones. The ones who lack the stamina for long hunts or the coordination for really efficient weapon use and toolmaking. The ones who don't have the mechanical aptitude to salvage broken machines, or (in later generations as they become more scarce) the aptitude for working in wood and stone and metal. The ones who aren't aggressive enough to fight for their place in a crude tribal society, or are too aggressive for everyone else to put up with.
Sure, a bit of smarts helps when it comes to learning new skills, planning hunts, and making tools, but you don't need to be a rocket scientist to manage that. The sudden collapse of civilization is gonna select for fith, healthy, competent outdoorsmen, jacks of all trades, and fast learners. Philosophy professors and MENSA members are gonna be right out of luck in the evolutionary lottery unless they've got practical skills they can bring to the table.
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Evolution only rewards survival.
You need an outside intelligence actively selecting for intelligence, for something to gain intelligence. Otherwise you get animals that are specifically adapted to an environment, and not a something something that adapts the environment.
That is if you believe that evolution is the way we cam about.
glitterboy2098 wrote:exactly. intellegence is a survival trait. the ability to think allows you to adapt to the enviroment without physical changes to the body.
the only way you'd see something that already has intellegence loose said intellegence (barring artificial intervention) would be for it to be in an enviroment where survival is an automatic. where food is plentiful, and never rotten, underripe, toxic, or have parasites. where the weather cannot harm at all. where there are no predators, and no competition with other species for food, shelter, or survival.
in short, a 'garden of eden'..though i hate using religious referances for these kinds of debates.
actually, there isn't much differance between a human genius and a human idiot in terms of dietary needs, childhood length, or birth. remember, higher intellegence doesn't mean bigger brain. that fallacy was disproven long ago. and in regards to length of childhood, there have been many studies showing that smarter children actually mature faster, as they're able to grasp adult roles and requirements easier. this would actualyl be a survival aedvantage, because the offspring would require less energy from the group to survive, freeing up more energy and time for the group to obtain food and shelter, or to create the next generation. (reaching maturity faster means generations come closer together)Rallan wrote:Or where the requirements of intelligence (higher energy needs, long childhood and/or complicated childbirth) outweigh the benefits.
again, you confuse constructed social roles with the concept of intellegence. what is a rocket scientist but a guy with a head for numbers and spatial relation ships? the same talents that make excellent hunters and inventors. what is a diplomat but a guy with a talent for intersocial relationships? the same talents that create tribal leaders, storytellers, and other roles that work as the social glue that keeps groups working smoothly.Some intelligence is a survival trait. The potential to be a rocket scientist or an international diplomat is overkill when pointy sticks are the pinnacle of technology and extended family tribes are the largest social unit.
If an environment's so hostile to a species that all the individuals spend virtually all their time just doing what's required to survive, a smaller brain that's got adequate mental firepower for the daily routine is gonna be more of a survival trait than a larger, more energy-hungry brain capable of sophisticated abstract thought.
again, you confuse constructed social roles with the concept of intellegence. what is a rocket scientist but a guy with a head for numbers and spatial relation ships? the same talents that make excellent hunters and inventors. what is a diplomat but a guy with a talent for intersocial relationships? the same talents that create tribal leaders, storytellers, and other roles that work as the social glue that keeps groups working smoothly.
higher intellgence usually comes with various aptitudes which are molded by the enviroment and society into useful fields. the same kind of minds that give us rockets and computers today were the kinds of minds that gave us the atalatl spear thrower, the bow and arrow, or agriculture.
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Not the change the the better over time the way evolutionists want everybody to believe.
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:That is if you believe that evolution is the way we cam about.
sHaka wrote:drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Not the change the the better over time the way evolutionists want everybody to believe.
No evolutionist I've ever heard/read has spared the whip in stating the case that Evolution doesn't mean better.
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Dude, paying attention to what science actually says has never been an important part of arguing for evolution
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:However, this is a game context, so in the Megaverse you can have the impossible happen w/o getting any SNat help.