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I have this OLD computer game called Forced Alliance. In it, there are missles called "Havoc". They were designed so they could ignore shields. Everything else was normal or subpar about them. Also, has anyone ever considered "missle nets"?

Moved to some what more appropriate forum section.

Mr. Deific NMI wrote:Moved to some what more appropriate forum section.

Thank you

macksting wrote:When you say net missiles, do you mean missiles which throw out nets instead of deadly plasma or shrapnel?
Myself, I prefer the notion of a foaming glue missile. Great for fighting those big invulnerable or MDC monsters. Or smoke bombs, for that matter.

My concept works like this. First, the missle (a long range housing) is fired. Then, about halfway though its flight, the housing is ejected and a wall (for lack of a better description) of mini-missles are fired from the missle body. Each is individually programmed with the attack target, and thus, harder to detonate. However, the need to lock each mini-missle individually means that in order for the attack to go off at all, a successful weapons systems roll is needed. Otherwise, the missles are fired wild.

The Unknown Mage wrote:

macksting wrote:When you say net missiles, do you mean missiles which throw out nets instead of deadly plasma or shrapnel?
Myself, I prefer the notion of a foaming glue missile. Great for fighting those big invulnerable or MDC monsters. Or smoke bombs, for that matter.

My concept works like this. First, the missile (a long range housing) is fired. Then, about halfway though its flight, the housing is ejected and a wall (for lack of a better description) of mini-missiles are fired from the missile body. Each is individually programmed with the attack target, and thus, harder to detonate. However, the need to lock each mini-missile individually means that in order for the attack to go off at all, a successful weapons systems roll is needed. Otherwise, the missiles are fired wild.

You would probably be better off if each mini-missile had an infra red (i.e. heat seeker) warhead. This is a simple fire and forget option that would not require a weapons systems roll. This tech exists to day BTW, and is used to destroy massed formation of armor (tanks, APC's IFV's).

My best advice is to research modern day missiles and their guidance systems.

jedi078 wrote:

The Unknown Mage wrote:

macksting wrote:When you say net missiles, do you mean missiles which throw out nets instead of deadly plasma or shrapnel?
Myself, I prefer the notion of a foaming glue missile. Great for fighting those big invulnerable or MDC monsters. Or smoke bombs, for that matter.

My concept works like this. First, the missile (a long range housing) is fired. Then, about halfway though its flight, the housing is ejected and a wall (for lack of a better description) of mini-missiles are fired from the missile body. Each is individually programmed with the attack target, and thus, harder to detonate. However, the need to lock each mini-missile individually means that in order for the attack to go off at all, a successful weapons systems roll is needed. Otherwise, the missiles are fired wild.

You would probably be better off if each mini-missile had an infra red (i.e. heat seeker) warhead. This is a simple fire and forget option that would not require a weapons systems roll. This tech exists to day BTW, and is used to destroy massed formation of armor (tanks, APC's IFV's).

My best advice is to research modern day missiles and their guidance systems.

Doesn't one of the CS Naval Fighters use a missile similar to this?

jaymz wrote:

jedi078 wrote:

The Unknown Mage wrote:

macksting wrote:When you say net missiles, do you mean missiles which throw out nets instead of deadly plasma or shrapnel?
Myself, I prefer the notion of a foaming glue missile. Great for fighting those big invulnerable or MDC monsters. Or smoke bombs, for that matter.

My concept works like this. First, the missile (a long range housing) is fired. Then, about halfway though its flight, the housing is ejected and a wall (for lack of a better description) of mini-missiles are fired from the missile body. Each is individually programmed with the attack target, and thus, harder to detonate. However, the need to lock each mini-missile individually means that in order for the attack to go off at all, a successful weapons systems roll is needed. Otherwise, the missiles are fired wild.

You would probably be better off if each mini-missile had an infra red (i.e. heat seeker) warhead. This is a simple fire and forget option that would not require a weapons systems roll. This tech exists to day BTW, and is used to destroy massed formation of armor (tanks, APC's IFV's).

My best advice is to research modern day missiles and their guidance systems.

Doesn't one of the CS Naval Fighters use a missile similar to this?

This sounds like a clusterbomb, and I believe that the original Robotech game had missiles like this IIRC.

jaymz wrote:

jedi078 wrote:

The Unknown Mage wrote:

macksting wrote:When you say net missiles, do you mean missiles which throw out nets instead of deadly plasma or shrapnel?
Myself, I prefer the notion of a foaming glue missile. Great for fighting those big invulnerable or MDC monsters. Or smoke bombs, for that matter.

My concept works like this. First, the missile (a long range housing) is fired. Then, about halfway though its flight, the housing is ejected and a wall (for lack of a better description) of mini-missiles are fired from the missile body. Each is individually programmed with the attack target, and thus, harder to detonate. However, the need to lock each mini-missile individually means that in order for the attack to go off at all, a successful weapons systems roll is needed. Otherwise, the missiles are fired wild.

You would probably be better off if each mini-missile had an infra red (i.e. heat seeker) warhead. This is a simple fire and forget option that would not require a weapons systems roll. This tech exists to day BTW, and is used to destroy massed formation of armor (tanks, APC's IFV's).

My best advice is to research modern day missiles and their guidance systems.

Doesn't one of the CS Naval Fighters use a missile similar to this?

Dunno, but a CBU-97 essentially what I described. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CBU-97_Sensor_Fuzed_Weapon

Going to be pretty cool when one of my PC’s drops one from 5000 feet over a massed formation a Zentraedi Battle Pods.

jedi078 wrote:

jaymz wrote:

jedi078 wrote:

The Unknown Mage wrote:

macksting wrote:When you say net missiles, do you mean missiles which throw out nets instead of deadly plasma or shrapnel?
Myself, I prefer the notion of a foaming glue missile. Great for fighting those big invulnerable or MDC monsters. Or smoke bombs, for that matter.

My concept works like this. First, the missile (a long range housing) is fired. Then, about halfway though its flight, the housing is ejected and a wall (for lack of a better description) of mini-missiles are fired from the missile body. Each is individually programmed with the attack target, and thus, harder to detonate. However, the need to lock each mini-missile individually means that in order for the attack to go off at all, a successful weapons systems roll is needed. Otherwise, the missiles are fired wild.

You would probably be better off if each mini-missile had an infra red (i.e. heat seeker) warhead. This is a simple fire and forget option that would not require a weapons systems roll. This tech exists to day BTW, and is used to destroy massed formation of armor (tanks, APC's IFV's).

My best advice is to research modern day missiles and their guidance systems.

Doesn't one of the CS Naval Fighters use a missile similar to this?

Dunno, but a CBU-97 essentially what I described. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CBU-97_Sensor_Fuzed_Weapon

Going to be pretty cool when one of my PC’s drops one from 5000 feet over a massed formation a Zentraedi Battle Pods.

Yep the AIM-180 ASRAAMM...fires a medoium range missile that splits into 4 short range frag missiles. Very similar i think to what the OP is talking about.....used by the Shrike Interceptor

jedi078 wrote:

jaymz wrote:

jedi078 wrote:

The Unknown Mage wrote:

macksting wrote:You would probably be better off if each mini-missile had an infra red (i.e. heat seeker) warhead. This is a simple fire and forget option that would not require a weapons systems roll. This tech exists to day BTW, and is used to destroy massed formation of armor (tanks, APC's IFV's).

My best advice is to research modern day missiles and their guidance systems.

Doesn't one of the CS Naval Fighters use a missile similar to this?

Dunno, but a CBU-97 essentially what I described. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CBU-97_Sensor_Fuzed_Weapon

Going to be pretty cool when one of my PC’s drops one from 5000 feet over a massed formation a Zentraedi Battle Pods.

Yep the AIM-180 ASRAAMM...fires a medoium range missile that splits into 4 short range frag missiles. Very similar i think to what the OP is talking about.....used by the Shrike Interceptor

My concept fires missles out the sides, thus allowing for more payload per launch. The fire and forget lock sounds good, but why not have two types, one each that use the two different locking systems?

The Unknown Mage wrote:My concept fires missles out the sides, thus allowing for more payload per launch. The fire and forget lock sounds good, but why not have two types, one each that use the two different locking systems?

Well if half the missiles were Semi-active Radar Homing and half were Infrared Homing yu could still use chaff and flares to fool them. Most aircraft will launch both chaff and flares at the same time.

jedi078 wrote:

The Unknown Mage wrote:My concept fires missles out the sides, thus allowing for more payload per launch. The fire and forget lock sounds good, but why not have two types, one each that use the two different locking systems?

Well if half the missiles were Semi-active Radar Homing and half were Infrared Homing yu could still use chaff and flares to fool them. Most aircraft will launch both chaff and flares at the same time.

My original targeting system idea for the missles was to have the targeting system lock every missle independantly onto the target. For example, with system lock, the missle fires and deploys its payload halfway into its flight. Each missle of the resulting "net" would be have a stand-alone targeting system lock, so none were linked. Most likely, this would make the chance of more than one missle detonating or getting distracted by chaff MUCH higher.

If you're willing to ignore the cost of the separate systems then you could do it, but I would counter with RUE missile detonation rules . Also Macross II had a system similar to this in one of their ground Valkyries.
I try to avoid missile use as I prefer energy weapons linked to my vehicle/power armors powerplant I never run out of ammom that way .

keir451 wrote:If you're willing to ignore the cost of the separate systems then you could do it, but I would counter with RUE missile detonation rules . Also Macross II had a system similar to this in one of their ground Valkyries.
I try to avoid missile use as I prefer energy weapons linked to my vehicle/power armors powerplant I never run out of ammom that way .

Actually I think that was part of the VTOL Gaurdian form mecha they had....or was it the variable Marduk mecha.....

Another idea i had recently I can only describe as "laser missles". the concept incorperates a laser housed in the nose to allow for better missle penetration/autiomated missle defense

The Unknown Mage wrote:Another idea i had recently I can only describe as "laser missles". the concept incorperates a laser housed in the nose to allow for better missle penetration/autiomated missle defense

I beleive Macross II had a "laser" missile of sorts....

jaymz wrote:

The Unknown Mage wrote:Another idea i had recently I can only describe as "laser missles". the concept incorperates a laser housed in the nose to allow for better missle penetration/autiomated missle defense

I beleive Macross II had a "laser" missile of sorts....

How does it work?

Don;t recall off hand have to dig ou thte books to relook

The Unknown Mage wrote:

jaymz wrote:

The Unknown Mage wrote:Another idea i had recently I can only describe as "laser missles". the concept incorperates a laser housed in the nose to allow for better missle penetration/autiomated missle defense

I beleive Macross II had a "laser" missile of sorts....

How does it work?

Doesn't say, just that thet rocket can fire two volleys of lasers, either concentrated or scattered shot.

Gamer wrote:

The Unknown Mage wrote:

jaymz wrote:

The Unknown Mage wrote:Another idea i had recently I can only describe as "laser missles". the concept incorperates a laser housed in the nose to allow for better missle penetration/autiomated missle defense

I beleive Macross II had a "laser" missile of sorts....

How does it work?

Doesn't say, just that thet rocket can fire two volleys of lasers, either concentrated or scattered shot.

My concept has a laser mounted in the tip that fires before impact.

Well on teh penetration part just call a different form of armour piercing and use th A/P rules for missile from RUE.

As for missile defense are yousaying this woudl be an automated laser that woudl shoot incoming missiles that are trying to destroy said missile? Essentailly a missiles anti-missile system?

The Unknown Mage wrote:

Gamer wrote:

The Unknown Mage wrote:

jaymz wrote:

The Unknown Mage wrote:Another idea i had recently I can only describe as "laser missles". the concept incorperates a laser housed in the nose to allow for better missle penetration/autiomated missle defense

I beleive Macross II had a "laser" missile of sorts....

How does it work?

Doesn't say, just that thet rocket can fire two volleys of lasers, either concentrated or scattered shot.

My concept has a laser mounted in the tip that fires before impact.

What you could do if the rocket or missile was big enough is use the Wilks CFT energy cartridge system to achieve your plan.
Though I'm not entirely keen on the idea of laser rockets-missiles in the first place seems like a waste of time to me.

The Unknown Mage wrote:Also, has anyone ever considered "missle nets"?

Yes.

I wrote up a post about a mod. to powered armours that included such a device - geared towards the rules of the game though.

What you're talking about is using a literal wall of bullets to intercept missiles, like what the Phalanx cannons on the various modern ships used by both the American and Canadian Navy.

My version was much more simple as far as the game goes.
The short version of the mod. to PA was basically eight arms (with lasers at the ends) controlled by a combat-computer linked to a tracking device that would fire independant of the operator to intercept in-coming missile-fire; basically 8 free attacks per missile or missile-volley sent towards the operator. The bonus to hit was minimal, but I didn't see that as a problem because shooting down missiles in Rifts is nearly impossible anyways, so I figured it was better to spam attacks rather than make single well-placed shots.

The post is here, waaay down at the bottom; it's the very last post. The rest of the thread is full of great ideas though, so feel free to read the rest as well.

Dog_O_War wrote:

The Unknown Mage wrote:Also, has anyone ever considered "missle nets"?

Yes.

I wrote up a post about a mod. to powered armours that included such a device - geared towards the rules of the game though.

What you're talking about is using a literal wall of bullets to intercept missiles, like what the Phalanx cannons on the various modern ships used by both the American and Canadian Navy.

My version was much more simple as far as the game goes.
The short version of the mod. to PA was basically eight arms (with lasers at the ends) controlled by a combat-computer linked to a tracking device that would fire independant of the operator to intercept in-coming missile-fire; basically 8 free attacks per missile or missile-volley sent towards the operator. The bonus to hit was minimal, but I didn't see that as a problem because shooting down missiles in Rifts is nearly impossible anyways, so I figured it was better to spam attacks rather than make single well-placed shots.

The post is here, waaay down at the bottom; it's the very last post. The rest of the thread is full of great ideas though, so feel free to read the rest as well.

Actually, my concept is essentually a missle wall

It's the same concept only the munitions used is different.
The Phalanx CIWs essentially creats a wall of projectiles.

Your "wall" is also still highly susceptible to both decoying and fratricide.
The guidance systems can only be so small and still be able to do the job reliably.
A total fire and forget system in something as small as a mini-missile isn't possible otherwise you would see some mini-missiles with them already.

The "wall" means they are in close formation, in order to protect against fratricide your mini-missiles will have to greatly disperse itself, which will cut down on it's overall range.
Such a dispersal still isn't a guarentee as since the system is housed in a long range missile housing and the payload is mini missiles, the mini-missiles will have to deploy well within a mile of the target leaving plenty of time for an interception before the mini-missiles deploy and is why the long range mulitwarheaded missiles used medium ranged missiles, the medium ranged missiles have greater standoff range.

Even if mini's could be given a true fire and forget the overall cost effectiveness doesn't seem worth it to me.

Gamer wrote:It's the same concept only the munitions used is different.
The Phalanx CIWs essentially creats a wall of projectiles.

Your "wall" is also still highly susceptible to both decoying and fratricide.
The guidance systems can only be so small and still be able to do the job reliably.
A total fire and forget system in something as small as a mini-missile isn't possible otherwise you would see some mini-missiles with them already.

The "wall" means they are in close formation, in order to protect against fratricide your mini-missiles will have to greatly disperse itself, which will cut down on it's overall range.
Such a dispersal still isn't a guarentee as since the system is housed in a long range missile housing and the payload is mini missiles, the mini-missiles will have to deploy well within a mile of the target leaving plenty of time for an interception before the mini-missiles deploy and is why the long range mulitwarheaded missiles used medium ranged missiles, the medium ranged missiles have greater standoff range.

Even if mini's could be given a true fire and forget the overall cost effectiveness doesn't seem worth it to me.

Okay. But m idea is more of a "volley in a missle" approach.

We know that it is a volley in a missile.
Your system seems a lot like the missile system Kier mentioned that is in the Macross II sourcebook, only it was a minimissile that fired a voley of even smaller rockets.

Gamer wrote:We know that it is a volley in a missile.
Your system seems a lot like the missile system Kier mentioned that is in the Macross II sourcebook, only it was a minimissile that fired a voley of even smaller rockets.

mine is not available in mini-missle versions, just short, medium, and long. also, for a peak under the casing< check out Bubblegum Crisis EX sourcebook. the "corncob" missle launcher on the K-12s is basically wahats underneath

Shang Li wrote:Ok, lets get silly with the counts here. A long range multi-warhead missile by description seperates into a cluster of 4 medium missiles. If each of those medium range missiles is an Aim-180 ASRAAM, now you have 16 short range missiles. Now if each one of these short range missiles is packing the guided naruni micro missiles the same way the macross 2's guardian vtol's genadelets were packaged, you are talking about 64 self guided sub-munitions accurately homing in on the target programed by the originating vessel which at it's option can be nearly two thousand miles away. Added to the nuisance value, at finale stage you are looking at sixteen volleys of four micro missiles each. (A player of mine developed this approach in order to saturate the point defenses on larger starships, and then got pissed off when NE, the CCW, the TGE, the Altess, and pretty much everyone else knocked off their design - Never use "off the shelf" technology for your experimental weapons unless you want everyone and their brother to have them)

my other missle concept, the havoc, is hardly off-the-shelf