Kill the Dragon!

[popscythe]

Just had a discussion with some old Rifts players about Dragon PCs and it boiled down to killing dragons.

Lets hear everyone's ideas on the subject. How would YOU kill a dragon hatchling pc as a GM?

[drewkitty ~..~]

Veto the char in the first place.

[keir451]

Palladium once published an adventure dealing with a Dragon, a Hydra, and a Beast Dragon. My players were a GB pilot, a SAMAS pilot, a Cyber Knight (w/hover cycle w/ missiles) and a Gunslinger.
In dealing w/ the Beast dragon the GB leaped on to it's back and deployed the pylons into it's spine, killing a head. The rest of the party used long range attacks to weaken the dragon while the Gb dumped rounds into it.
The Hydra turned into simple slug fest, and finally the Dragon; (I went kinda easy on them as I didn't want them to die) but basically the GB did the most damage from range w/the Boom gun, the cyber knight used his 'cycle to launch missiles, the SAMAs pilot kept buzzing the dragon distracting him while firing his railgun, and the gvunslinger fired from behind the GB w/an ensrgy rifle found in the dragons hoard.
Basically Power Armor and long range weaponry was how my players did it.

[Ice Dragon]

Depending.

Lots of (long range) firepower can bring a hatchling down very fast, e.g. missile volleys, rail guns, laser fire, etc.

If the dragon can bring up a kind of force field (magic or psi or even a technological), it will be harder. Most dragons can teleport or metamorphose into something different (see the small cat there), so you have to prevent this.

If the dragon can escape, then you will be in trouble - maybe not know but in a few days, weeks, years .

The best way, is to lay in ambush and surprise the dragon. But remember, dragons can have powers like sixth sense, intuitive combat, can see in the future, etc.

[johnkretzer]

Use a bigger Dragon

[csbioborg]

diminesional barrier a spell from palladiuk fantasy so he can not teleport
and 30 of you best friends with their railguns on full auto

[Balabanto]

Wait for the dragon to act, run him out of actions, look ineffectual, and then blast him with every armor piercing missile you have.

[popscythe]

I don't actually have any dragon PCs, I just like talking about Dragons getting their "just deserts" (with great power comes great responsibility, right? mwahahahaha!).

I was thinking:

Day 1: Dragon and Co. wandering around somewhere in little populated CS territory.
Night 1: CS Psi-Stalker and Dog Pack spies observe party w/dragon from extreme range and try like hell to avoid combat.
Day 2: Death's Head flies overhead a few times at great altitude. "Fair Warning"
Night 2: Skelebots Rain from the Heavens (2d10). SAMAS (6) hiding "Nearby" (2 melees away) watch Skelebot feeds and wait to reinforce when needed. SAMAS engage from max range, from the air. SAMAS retreat rather than take losses, if needed
Day 3, "The @#$%fest": Dragon Juicers (2) come out for blood, attacking the party as they recover from their CS encounter just before dawn. Describe the sun just peeking above the horizon as the ultra-fast blood fueled murder men spring into the midst of camp. The CS reengage 1d4 Melees later, this time with the surviving SAMAS from the earlier raid, 3 Super SAMAS, 2 Military Specialists (In Robot Vehicles) 2d10 Dead Boys and 1d4x10 Skelebots (Both In troop transports). CS engages primary targets (Dragon and Dragon Juicers). Psi-Stalker and Dog Pack arrive after lots of battle has already transpired (2d6 melees) to track dragon if it escapes or teleports away.

And that's why being a Dragon in North America is a rough time. What do you guys think? That situation seems fair, avoidable if intelligent and mutable based on the situation, doesn't it? If the players ignore /don't notice themselves being watched, the CS will surely get them over time either way. The Dragon Juicers are actually to even the score between the Dragon and the CS during the fight (though they'll be trying to kill the Dragon too), and to demonstrate that running far away from the CS will only get you so far when you are physically made out of everything awesome in the world. On a side note, I wonder what dragon tastes like? What clever solutions will the party take to hide their brimming magic beacon from their enemies? Will the Dragon successfully teleport to some random location and be engaged by further horrible threats from the Rifts? Will TinTin and Snowy ever figure out the secret of the Seven Crystal Balls?

[Nekira Sudacne]

In one rifts game, We killed an ancient dragon by hitting it with a volley of 30 TGE Singularity Cruse missles from 30 miles away.

It was sleeping.

[popscythe]

It was sleeping.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSUGZmrcwKY#t=0m08s

[SkyeFyre]

I don't actually have any dragon PCs, I just like talking about Dragons getting their "just deserts" (with great power comes great responsibility, right? mwahahahaha!).

I was thinking:

Day 1: Dragon and Co. wandering around somewhere in little populated CS territory.
Night 1: CS Psi-Stalker and Dog Pack spies observe party w/dragon from extreme range and try like hell to avoid combat.
Day 2: Death's Head flies overhead a few times at great altitude. "Fair Warning"
Night 2: Skelebots Rain from the Heavens (2d10). SAMAS (6) hiding "Nearby" (2 melees away) watch Skelebot feeds and wait to reinforce when needed. SAMAS engage from max range, from the air. SAMAS retreat rather than take losses, if needed
Day 3, "The @#$%fest": Dragon Juicers (2) come out for blood, attacking the party as they recover from their CS encounter just before dawn. Describe the sun just peeking above the horizon as the ultra-fast blood fueled murder men spring into the midst of camp. The CS reengage 1d4 Melees later, this time with the surviving SAMAS from the earlier raid, 3 Super SAMAS, 2 Military Specialists (In Robot Vehicles) 2d10 Dead Boys and 1d4x10 Skelebots (Both In troop transports). CS engages primary targets (Dragon and Dragon Juicers). Psi-Stalker and Dog Pack arrive after lots of battle has already transpired (2d6 melees) to track dragon if it escapes or teleports away.

And that's why being a Dragon in North America is a rough time. What do you guys think? That situation seems fair, avoidable if intelligent and mutable based on the situation, doesn't it? If the players ignore /don't notice themselves being watched, the CS will surely get them over time either way. The Dragon Juicers are actually to even the score between the Dragon and the CS during the fight (though they'll be trying to kill the Dragon too), and to demonstrate that running far away from the CS will only get you so far when you are physically made out of everything awesome in the world. On a side note, I wonder what dragon tastes like? What clever solutions will the party take to hide their brimming magic beacon from their enemies? Will the Dragon successfully teleport to some random location and be engaged by further horrible threats from the Rifts? Will TinTin and Snowy ever figure out the secret of the Seven Crystal Balls?

Dragon Juicers would only be attacking an adult dragon as it specifically states that they need the blood of an adult dragon to lengthen their lifespan. Hatchlings wouldn't do the trick. So why are these dragon juicers after the dragon?

[johnkretzer]

Dragon Juicers would only be attacking an adult dragon as it specifically states that they need the blood of an adult dragon to lengthen their lifespan. Hatchlings wouldn't do the trick. So why are these dragon juicers after the dragon?

Dragon Juicers need to resuply their Bio-Comp with dragon blood...any age dragon will do.

[SkyeFyre]

Dragon Juicers would only be attacking an adult dragon as it specifically states that they need the blood of an adult dragon to lengthen their lifespan. Hatchlings wouldn't do the trick. So why are these dragon juicers after the dragon?

Dragon Juicers need to resuply their Bio-Comp with dragon blood...any age dragon will do.

My bad. I was thinking about if they wanted to lengthen their lifespan, not the standard resupply. I stand corrected.

[popscythe]

I picked DJs completely off the cuff because they crave sweet dragon juices, but I had forgotten about adult-only for conversion blood. But as a point of justification for their involvement, I say "they're attacking the dragon because they're complete jerks." This hypothetical isn't based on any campaign real or imagined, I just was daydreaming about what type of situation would be a real tough one for a dragon PC. How about the ancient question but swap out the glitterboy... 3 old-style SAMAS vs 1 Dragon Hatchling, 1st level.

Survey Says: ???????????

IM: I like your signature, when I heard it the punchline was "the proper application of high explosives", heh.

[G]

I've played a dragon for a decent length of time. I'll try and address the issues as I see them:

Dragon juicers will only be in the employ of dragons. There are many reasons for this, I'm not even going to list them, think about it and you should be able to figure it out. They will not be created by the CS, because the dragon juicer is a magical process and the net result is something that will set off a dogboys supernatural senses. Dragons would simply put a million credits on the life of EVERY dragon juicer not in the employ of a dragon and more for anyone who creates them not for use by dragons. You could probably check records of the creators and use divination to SUMMON dragon juicers if you wanted...they just won't last past their first kill if not in the employ of a dragon. Dragons live a long time, have lots of money and would not let themselves be targeted.

There are lots of ways to challenge any PC, if you are a GM specifically trying to kill your PC - you are a bad GM.

PRE-COMBAT - Expect them all to have 6th sense and clairvoyance. They will know you want to attack them and have at least invisibility already in place. Ex. Before the Tolkeen war I feel like going from the city of Dragons to a one of the other Tolkeen cities to buy TW items. The Dragon is flying along minding his own business 1 mile up along a ley line, when 6th sense goes off. The Dragon turns invisible then shapeshifts into a bird and continues flying while using clairvoyance to see what its immediate future holds. A CS long range patrol is charting the area to prep for war. They saw it vanish, then vanish from radar and panic. They hide and a dogboy activates see invisible & clairvoyance as its 6th sense goes off. The dragon sees itself being attacked by SAMAS. The dogboy sees flashes of fire. the dragon decides to use telepathy to read any unshielded minds...There are lots of ways this can go, and they don't all involve combat. This is a RPG not a spyro game.

COMBAT - As a dragon you have decent mobility, one of the first thing I did was to get even more. Magic is your friend here. On top of that even then spells like targeted deflection are going to be in every dragons list, so any large attacks are either going to be teleport dodged or reflected back at you. Lots of small attacks are the way to go. As a PC I found it exciting when the GM used other dragons - why? because of the RP opportunity. They also keep you on your toes cause you really have no idea how powerful they are compared to you. However, there are tons of ways to challenge every char.

Oddly enough I found moving around in enemy territory at full size was much like painting a big target on myself. There is no need to walk around CS territory, there is an entire megaverse out there. Fortunately dragons have natural abilities to get around people trying to kill them, (or phase fields...). Invisibility, chameleon, shadow meld, etc, can be used all day long if you like. I made CONSTANT use of all my standard dragon abilities.

[csbioborg]

I've played a dragon for a decent length of time. I'll try and address the issues as I see them:

Dragon juicers will only be in the employ of dragons. There are many reasons for this, I'm not even going to list them, think about it and you should be able to figure it out. They will not be created by the CS, because the dragon juicer is a magical process and the net result is something that will set off a dogboys supernatural senses. Dragons would simply put a million credits on the life of EVERY dragon juicer not in the employ of a dragon and more for anyone who creates them not for use by dragons. You could probably check records of the creators and use divination to SUMMON dragon juicers if you wanted...they just won't last past their first kill if not in the employ of a dragon. Dragons live a long time, have lots of money and would not let themselves be targeted.

There are lots of ways to challenge any PC, if you are a GM specifically trying to kill your PC - you are a bad GM.

PRE-COMBAT - Expect them all to have 6th sense and clairvoyance. They will know you want to attack them and have at least invisibility already in place. Ex. Before the Tolkeen war I feel like going from the city of Dragons to a one of the other Tolkeen cities to buy TW items. The Dragon is flying along minding his own business 1 mile up along a ley line, when 6th sense goes off. The Dragon turns invisible then shapeshifts into a bird and continues flying while using clairvoyance to see what its immediate future holds. A CS long range patrol is charting the area to prep for war. They saw it vanish, then vanish from radar and panic. They hide and a dogboy activates see invisible & clairvoyance as its 6th sense goes off. The dragon sees itself being attacked by SAMAS. The dogboy sees flashes of fire. the dragon decides to use telepathy to read any unshielded minds...There are lots of ways this can go, and they don't all involve combat. This is a RPG not a spyro game.

COMBAT - As a dragon you have decent mobility, one of the first thing I did was to get even more. Magic is your friend here. On top of that even then spells like targeted deflection are going to be in every dragons list, so any large attacks are either going to be teleport dodged or reflected back at you. Lots of small attacks are the way to go. As a PC I found it exciting when the GM used other dragons - why? because of the RP opportunity. They also keep you on your toes cause you really have no idea how powerful they are compared to you. However, there are tons of ways to challenge every char.

Oddly enough I found moving around in enemy territory at full size was much like painting a big target on myself. There is no need to walk around CS territory, there is an entire megaverse out there. Fortunately dragons have natural abilities to get around people trying to kill them, (or phase fields...). Invisibility, chameleon, shadow meld, etc, can be used all day long if you like. I made CONSTANT use of all my standard dragon abilities.

well canon wise the biggest producer and employer of them appears to be the Society of Sages which is a human supremacist group of sages that sells the proceudre in KingsDale. THey have a 12th level dragon juicer on their roster. He has killed at least one adult and many hatchlings.

[johnkretzer]

I've played a dragon for a decent length of time. I'll try and address the issues as I see them:

Dragon juicers will only be in the employ of dragons. There are many reasons for this, I'm not even going to list them, think about it and you should be able to figure it out. They will not be created by the CS, because the dragon juicer is a magical process and the net result is something that will set off a dogboys supernatural senses. Dragons would simply put a million credits on the life of EVERY dragon juicer not in the employ of a dragon and more for anyone who creates them not for use by dragons. You could probably check records of the creators and use divination to SUMMON dragon juicers if you wanted...they just won't last past their first kill if not in the employ of a dragon. Dragons live a long time, have lots of money and would not let themselves be targeted.

1) No where in this thread did anybody mentioned Dragon Juicers working for or being made by the CS....it was just that scenario being drawn up has the group attacked by the CS and dragon juicers at the same time.

2) Dragon may be old...and may be rich...but there are not perfect or infallable...and don't have every resouce in the world at their finger tips. I think you are a bit overplaying them.

3) Dragon could care less about another dragon rather it is a stranger or family. So as long as it is not being personaly targeted it really doesn't care. So even if you are right I can see perfectly well a Dragon letting his juicers hunt other dragons.

[Zer0 Kay]

Palladium once published an adventure dealing with a Dragon, a Hydra, and a Beast Dragon. My players were a GB pilot, a SAMAS pilot, a Cyber Knight (w/hover cycle w/ missiles) and a Gunslinger.
In dealing w/ the Beast dragon the GB leaped on to it's back and deployed the pylons into it's spine, killing a head. The rest of the party used long range attacks to weaken the dragon while the Gb dumped rounds into it.
The Hydra turned into simple slug fest, and finally the Dragon; (I went kinda easy on them as I didn't want them to die) but basically the GB did the most damage from range w/the Boom gun, the cyber knight used his 'cycle to launch missiles, the SAMAs pilot kept buzzing the dragon distracting him while firing his railgun, and the gvunslinger fired from behind the GB w/an ensrgy rifle found in the dragons hoard.
Basically Power Armor and long range weaponry was how my players did it.

Awesome... except the pylons each only do something like 2MD or something simmularly low like that. I beleive it is covered in the GB section of Mutants in Space.

[Zer0 Kay]

I like using my favorite spell combo for any thing with a face be it human, dragon, god or something I have to draw a face onto with a sharpie.
-Create Deck of Cards (if you don't have one handy)
-Endless Deck of Cards (1 hour per level)
-Iron Cards (1d6MDC) or Card Daggers (2d6MDC)
-52 Cards to the Face (spell states: launches a WHOLE deck unneringly at the targets face)
-Carpet of adhesion

With an endless deck and 52 cards it is somewhat logical to figure that it would be 52 cards per melee. Four melees per minute and 60 minutes per hour. If your mage has enough PPE to cast all these spells at first level then 1x60x4x52= 12,480 x 1 or 2 d6 and maybe if the GM determines strikes to the head are criticals then another x 2. So an attack that does between min max
12,480 74,880 for iron cards
24,960 149,760 for card daggers
or... never mind you can figure it out for crits. But as it is magic it wuld be SDC in magic low dimensions and MD in high magic dimensions.
That Munchkin enough? Is that enough to kill your dragons in a more humiliating way? Don't forget about the distractive effects of 52 cards to the face. Oh yeah and the CoA is to negat the only possibility the target has of avoiding the spell.

[csbioborg]

its all about getting a group of basklisk together
with some armor to protect them while they gaze
three per round 14 to save
get 10 basklisks
even the most ancient dragon god will fail their save with in a couple rounds

[Mack]

Anyone else hear Kill the Wabbit when reading this thread title?

[popscythe]

I've played a dragon for a decent length of time.

I can tell. Thanks for your input. If I ever wanted to kill YOUR dragon, I'll keep what you said in mind. I'm not usually a "bad GM" but if you were in my game I might make an exception.

Just kidding!

No thoughts on 3x SAMAS vs Hatchling if they were fighting just to fight?

How about GB vs Hatchling?

For the record we're talking standard 1st level RUE hatchling here. No spells yet, hth dragon, etc.

[G]

I can tell. Thanks for your input. If I ever wanted to kill YOUR dragon, I'll keep what you said in mind. I'm not usually a "bad GM" but if you were in my game I might make an exception.

Just kidding!

No thoughts on 3x SAMAS vs Hatchling if they were fighting just to fight?

How about GB vs Hatchling?

For the record we're talking standard 1st level RUE hatchling here. No spells yet, hth dragon, etc.

The royal frilled dragon starts with spells. failing a save vs 1PPE blinding flash is embarrassing if you are a SAMAS flying fast, as you might crash and die. Remember that bots & PA are very limited in use - which is war, a dragons natural abilities make it much more of a RP character than a pilot who is always trying to stay in their mdc shell...or repair it.

Busy places like cities and forests will give the dragon an advantage..given that it takes no penalties for changing into something small and hard for you to find/hit (no larger than lots of the things you need a called shot at -3 to hit). With the dragons having an advantage starting close, and the tech opponents at a distance, its hard to choose one which will give neither the advantage. Still, according to the book the Average CS troops are veterans with 12-24 years of experience and are levels 5-9. A level 1 hatchling is likely to be a week old with the mentality of a 3 year old & a high IQ... It would be very sad if the SAMAS didn't win. It really depends how you play the high IQ child mentality. I'm going to vote against the GB (My first RIFTS char), they are too much a one trick pony.

[Dog_O_War]

In a standard Rifts game?
Overwhelming firepower via a mounted version of an Ork Kustom MastaBlasta. They had better of started to retreat the moment I show up, because they aren't going to get away otherwise.

[Noon]

How would YOU kill a dragon hatchling pc as a GM?

By being passive aggressive

[popscythe]

It really depends how you play the high IQ child mentality.

I'm 100% with you there, that's exactly the main point of the original discussion I had that spawned this "jovial" (how jovial can making light of the theoretical murder of an entire race of creatures be?) thread. I don't actually have any issue with dragon pc's other than thinking they're filthy minorities and wanting their skin for armor and hormones for drugs and blood for juicin', but really the main point is, the dragon hatchling is a super powered kid. We're talking Home-Alone tactics on the outside (too complex) of reasonable. They might know a very impressive amount of things for their general mentality, but are they really going to follow complex logical deduction when turning BIG and stomping around and going RARRR! and watching people run and scream is probably far more amusing than neatly executing a clever and tactical victory over a common foe? Have you ever seen a day care? I highly doubt that even given the ability to learn very quickly, that the residents therein would use advanced tactics that take into account velocity and great distances and other such "moderate" concepts.

By being passive aggressive

By George, You've Done it!

[runebeo]

Our group have killed a few adult dragons. First off we try to ambush it in its den or in a wide open field but make sure we have a shifter or two to try to counter its teleport ability. We use the Slammer missiles from Triax to stun them and uranium rounds to stop it's bio-regeneration. Another key spell to use on it is Luck Curse spell to take away all its combat bonuses & saving throws bonuses, cast it a few times till it sticks and it opens the floodgates to so many spells, psionics, magic tattoos and other abilities. With Luck Curse in effect Blinding flash spell is just crippling, Mute spell stops it from casting spells and one dirty trick with Luck curse on is to get a master psychic to Mentally Possess the dragon for an easy kill.

[popscythe]

Now that's Dragon Slaying

[Shark_Force]

"Nuke them from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."

is that a movie quate?

yes. aliens (the second alien movie)

[Vladamir Krophski]

Like any other PC, let them do it themselves. I wouldn't make too much effort to kill it, but then again with Hatchling PC's you don't have to pull your punches either

[popscythe]

Poison a bunch of gold shaped like a bed.

[Lenwen]

Just had a discussion with some old Rifts players about Dragon PCs and it boiled down to killing dragons.

Lets hear everyone's ideas on the subject. How would YOU kill a dragon hatchling pc as a GM?

Rather easily done if its just a hatchling..
Rune weapon. Damage is 3d6x10 (Undersea's Rune weapon)

Activate my Tat
Weapon covered in flames with a coiled serpant around it: 3d6x10 is now .. 6x6x10
(double damage to all Serpant beings)

Have a Necromancer cast Death Touch on me. Damage is doubled...
6d6x10 is now 12d6x10 to Dragons...

Now use a talismen to activate "Fleet Feet" (Doubles my attacks for that round)

Depending upon my lvl, (3-6 is average I believe, which grants me 4-6 attacks including boxing) is a total of 8-12 attacks per round ..

I'd say the hatchling is pretty much a goner in 1 or 2 rounds. IF .. I can get into melee combat with it.

1 actual hit has the chance to do 720 MD to it.

Now imagine if you hit the hatchling multiple times...

12d6x10 even if you only hit the beasty at most 3-4 times outta your 8-12 attacks .. that Hatchling is going to be sleepin wit the fishes .. really fast ..

This is how I'd kill Dragons, Hatchlings or otherwise .. hehe

[popscythe]

Ouch! But if you hit them with that much MD (Lenwen) or a fusion block (Max) there won't be anything left for dinner!

[glitterboy2098]

convince them to teleport somewhere they've never been or seen. might not kill them..but it's an almost automatic failure..and if your like most Gm's i've known, the teleport occurs, they just land somewhere unexpected. might not be dead, but certainly out of your hair...

[Lenwen]

missiles

Dragon's new .. "Teleport Dodge" ability would negate missiles ..

For Dragon's .. I think you would actually have to go toe to toe with them ..

As thier "Teleport Dodge" ability is just way to easy to dodge missiles ..

[popscythe]

They don't get teleport dodge until level 10 though, so missiles away in the mean time!

Also, I see the bonus teleport dodge is supposed to give to dodging, but I don't see the small bonus to teleport for combat purposes only. I think that line might have remained accidentally after it was decided that making a successful dodge roll just "Set off" teleport dodge.

[Lenwen]

They don't get teleport dodge until level 10 though, so missiles away in the mean time!

Also, I see the bonus teleport dodge is supposed to give to dodging, but I don't see the small bonus to teleport for combat purposes only. I think that line might have remained accidentally after it was decided that making a successful dodge roll just "Set off" teleport dodge.

Very true ..

Just hope that wee little dragon hatchling is not lvl 10+ .. your screwed ..

Can you see it now ..

Teleport dodge ONTO YOUR FACE !!

ENRAGED DRAGON HATCHLING ON YO FACE WITH ALL HIS ATTACKS LEFT !!

That .. would prolly be a bad day for anyone ..

EDIT: just read this .. and I ment it not as a slight to you or anyone on the thread, it was ment for hilarity. A Dragon teleport dodging your missile barrage .. by teleport dodging directly on top of you (or anyone who sent missiles down range) hehe ..

Again ment no slight by this, as people tend to read more into posts .. (especially "Text" based forums) then what was actually put into the post.

Have a good day.

[popscythe]

They don't get teleport dodge until level 10 though, so missiles away in the mean time!

Also, I see the bonus teleport dodge is supposed to give to dodging, but I don't see the small bonus to teleport for combat purposes only. I think that line might have remained accidentally after it was decided that making a successful dodge roll just "Set off" teleport dodge.

Very true ..

Just hope that wee little dragon hatchling is not lvl 10+ .. your screwed ..

Can you see it now ..

Teleport dodge ONTO YOUR FACE !!

ENRAGED DRAGON HATCHLING ON YO FACE WITH ALL HIS ATTACKS LEFT !!

That .. would prolly be a bad day for anyone ..

So I think I read it wrong just now. Teleport dodge doesn't go off with a successful dodge, the +1 to teleport dodge adds to teleport and to dodge. So the +1 is a +1 to dodge and a +1% to teleport success, but only in combat. Makes sense now. I was thinking "Automatic teleport? Not on my watch, pal!" But yeah 10th level hatchling is nothing to sneeze at either way. However, HtH dragon really makes dragons WEAKER at first, which I very much enjoy.

Edit: They still get their basic combat stats when in another form. I thought for a second that it was "they get no HtH skill when shapeshifted" which I was excited about. But they still do get less attacks per melee at first, heh.

[Mack]

Rune weapon. Damage is 3d6x10 (Undersea's Rune weapon)

Activate my Tat
Weapon covered in flames with a coiled serpant around it: 3d6x10 is now .. 6x6x10
(double damage to all Serpant beings)

Unfortunately, no. The tattoo summons a weapon to use, it doesn't enhance or combine with any other weapon, be it a rune weapon or vibro-blade.

(Also, your math is wrong. The tattoo does triple damage to dragons, not double.)

[popscythe]

Oh yeah, I caught the joke, Len, no worries.

[Lenwen]

Rune weapon. Damage is 3d6x10 (Undersea's Rune weapon)

Activate my Tat
Weapon covered in flames with a coiled serpant around it: 3d6x10 is now .. 6x6x10
(double damage to all Serpant beings)

Unfortunately, no. The tattoo summons a weapon to use, it doesn't enhance or combine with any other weapon, be it a rune weapon or vibro-blade.

(Also, your math is wrong. The tattoo does triple damage to dragons, not double.)

its up for debat .. either or ..

As most Tats that actually Create weapon's .. clearly state in the Tats description .. "Creates such an such ..

The Tat in question does in fact not state it "Creates a weapon.

Ergo .. it is up for debat.

[keir451]

Palladium once published an adventure dealing with a Dragon, a Hydra, and a Beast Dragon. My players were a GB pilot, a SAMAS pilot, a Cyber Knight (w/hover cycle w/ missiles) and a Gunslinger.
In dealing w/ the Beast dragon the GB leaped on to it's back and deployed the pylons into it's spine, killing a head. The rest of the party used long range attacks to weaken the dragon while the Gb dumped rounds into it.
The Hydra turned into simple slug fest, and finally the Dragon; (I went kinda easy on them as I didn't want them to die) but basically the GB did the most damage from range w/the Boom gun, the cyber knight used his 'cycle to launch missiles, the SAMAs pilot kept buzzing the dragon distracting him while firing his railgun, and the gvunslinger fired from behind the GB w/an ensrgy rifle found in the dragons hoard.
Basically Power Armor and long range weaponry was how my players did it.

Awesome... except the pylons each only do something like 2MD or something simmularly low like that. I beleive it is covered in the GB section of Mutants in Space.

Yeah but I had to House Rule it a bit. The Laser Drills can punch thru Megacrete in an instant (they'd have to for the Boom gun to work) so I ruled that the drills wold punch thru the skin of a Dragon (and by proxy MD armor). I kinda applied the MDC per feet concepts from the Starships in Robotech and Macross to the Dragon for this specific case.

[Mack]

Rune weapon. Damage is 3d6x10 (Undersea's Rune weapon)

Activate my Tat
Weapon covered in flames with a coiled serpant around it: 3d6x10 is now .. 6x6x10
(double damage to all Serpant beings)

Unfortunately, no. The tattoo summons a weapon to use, it doesn't enhance or combine with any other weapon, be it a rune weapon or vibro-blade.

(Also, your math is wrong. The tattoo does triple damage to dragons, not double.)

its up for debat .. either or ..

As most Tats that actually Create weapon's .. clearly state in the Tats description .. "Creates such an such ..

The Tat in question does in fact not state it "Creates a weapon.

Ergo .. it is up for debat.

No, it's not. It's clearly covered in the first sentence under the Tattoos: Magic Weapons header on p86. The only weapon tattoo that would affect a Rune weapon is the Two Weapons Crossed.

[popscythe]

What about the Crossed Chopsticks Tattoo?
400 PPE to activate, turns target dragon into Dragon Katsu Don.

[Lenwen]

Rune weapon. Damage is 3d6x10 (Undersea's Rune weapon)

Activate my Tat
Weapon covered in flames with a coiled serpant around it: 3d6x10 is now .. 6x6x10
(double damage to all Serpant beings)

Unfortunately, no. The tattoo summons a weapon to use, it doesn't enhance or combine with any other weapon, be it a rune weapon or vibro-blade.

(Also, your math is wrong. The tattoo does triple damage to dragons, not double.)

its up for debat .. either or ..

As most Tats that actually Create weapon's .. clearly state in the Tats description .. "Creates such an such ..

The Tat in question does in fact not state it "Creates a weapon.

Ergo .. it is up for debat.

No, it's not. It's clearly covered in the first sentence under the Tattoos: Magic Weapons header on p86. The only weapon tattoo that would affect a Rune weapon is the Two Weapons Crossed.

Mack please show me in the Tattoo's Write up ..

where it CLEARLY STATES IT CREATES .. a weapon ?

Lemme know how that hunt turns out for ya ..

[Mack]

Mack please show me in the Tattoo's Write up ..

where it CLEARLY STATES IT CREATES .. a weapon ?

Lemme know how that hunt turns out for ya ..

It's easier just to quote myself:

It's clearly covered in the first sentence under the Tattoos: Magic Weapons header on p86.

Or, if you really want to show you're not just making stuff up, you could show ANY SUPPORT for that tattoo granting a bonus to a Rune weapon.

[popscythe]

What about the Crossed Chopsticks Tattoo?
400 PPE to activate, turns target dragon into Dragon Katsu Don.

I wonder if they could be modified... I like the Idea of Mongolian Dragon, or maybe even Dragon Lo Mein, but I really think that Dragon would have to strong of a flavor and clash with the spices in the Katsu...

You know, you're definitely right. I knew that something was awry when I asked for the tattoo and the special Atlantean-chef/tattoo artist (T-Chef, of course) started laughing at me.

Damn you subtle flavors! I should have gotten two flaming, crossed, McChickens.

[Shark_Force]

Mack please show me in the Tattoo's Write up ..

where it CLEARLY STATES IT CREATES .. a weapon ?

Lemme know how that hunt turns out for ya ..

It's easier just to quote myself:

It's clearly covered in the first sentence under the Tattoos: Magic Weapons header on p86.

Or, if you really want to show you're not just making stuff up, you could show ANY SUPPORT for that tattoo granting a bonus to a Rune weapon.

*grumbles about having to walk across the room to get the book out*

Also stated in the Rifts Book of Magic, page 234, under the heading "Magic Weapon Tattoos"

the first line reads as follows: "Magic weapons are magic tattoos that create a seemingly real, physical weapon out of thin air." (bolding added to emphasise the relevant words, the stuff in between being adjectives)

from this statement, we can deduce that magic weapon tattoos create weapons.

[Zer0 Kay]

Mack please show me in the Tattoo's Write up ..

where it CLEARLY STATES IT CREATES .. a weapon ?

Lemme know how that hunt turns out for ya ..

It's easier just to quote myself:

It's clearly covered in the first sentence under the Tattoos: Magic Weapons header on p86.

Or, if you really want to show you're not just making stuff up, you could show ANY SUPPORT for that tattoo granting a bonus to a Rune weapon.

Hey Lenwen, Mack is right the tatts you are commenting on falls under the Magic Weapons section and the first sentence says "Magic weapons are magic tattoos that create a seeminly real, physical weapon out of thin air." So unless it specifically contradicts the catch all statment, like "Two Weapons Crossed" it would create a weapon.

[Zer0 Kay]

Mack please show me in the Tattoo's Write up ..

where it CLEARLY STATES IT CREATES .. a weapon ?

Lemme know how that hunt turns out for ya ..

It's easier just to quote myself:

It's clearly covered in the first sentence under the Tattoos: Magic Weapons header on p86.

Or, if you really want to show you're not just making stuff up, you could show ANY SUPPORT for that tattoo granting a bonus to a Rune weapon.

*grumbles about having to walk across the room to get the book out*

Also stated in the Rifts Book of Magic, page 234, under the heading "Magic Weapon Tattoos"

the first line reads as follows: "Magic weapons are magic tattoos that create a seemingly real, physical weapon out of thin air." (bolding added to emphasise the relevant words, the stuff in between being adjectives)

from this statement, we can deduce that magic weapon tattoos create weapons.

except as mack pointed out the crossed weapons, but I'm thinking that it is supposed to be combined with the other weapon tattoos.