Forums of the Megaverse®

Recently a player of mine that is a TW wished to create a device that used the Identify Minerals spell but the spell is a Earth Warlock spell and there is no equivalent in the invocation spells.

Since there are some Warlock spells that also appear as invocations he (my player) though that someone converted the spell to a invocation form (that is, created a spell with similar effects) and thus he decided to do the same. I find the idea reasonable but imposed on him several restrictions.

First he need to find a Earth Warlock that does know the spell so that he (he must convince the warlock) could explain to him what are the fully effects of the spell and the way he channels his energy to do so.

Second he need to find a Ley Line Walker of at least 5th level to do the research for him because since he is a Techno Wizard, his knowledge of metamagic (my term on the deeper insights of magic that a LLW would be better than a TW) is limited.

Finally he (or the LLW ) would need to make rolls to research and thus "convert" the spell.

I use a idea of development/research that is that I set a given number and ask my players to roll the apropriate skill. The margin by which they pass the skill check determine how many points they make in each roll. I also gives then a limit on how many rolls they have to try accomplish the task.

Example: Once the operator of the group decided to create a new weapon. In this case he wished to create a particle beam pistol that would have a range equivalent to a laser pistol. I asked him to make 3 checks (used his level for the number of tests) of his weapon engineer skill and achieve a total of 120 points

He was a skill of 50% and rolled 37, 42 and 63 so his total points were as follow:

1st roll: 37 - 13 points
2nd roll: 42 - 8 points
3rd roll: 63 - minus 13 points
Total: 8 points

He didnt succed so I said he could try next level.

What I dont know for sure is how to determine the dificult of this extended roll for the converting of the spell and I am asking for some advice.

Anyone that could help me?

You need the Nightbane book #3, "Through the glass, Darkly". It details discovering spells, inventing spells, modifying spells, and converting specialty magics to common spells.

Khanibal wrote:You need the Nightbane book #3, "Through the glass, Darkly". It details discovering spells, inventing spells, modifying spells, and converting specialty magics to common spells.

Thanks. I dont have the Nightbane books but I will try to grab then from a friend I have

You also need to know that Warlocks hate it when "regular" mages start casting "their" spells.

Throw temper tantrums, make prank calls, leave bags of burning poo on your doorstep.

Khanibal wrote:Throw temper tantrums, make prank calls, leave bags of burning poo on your doorstep.

Closer to a "I'm going to kill you" hate then the children sort of hate you described.

Sounds like a bunch of Grumpy Guses to me.

It's more that the mage is "stealing" "their" Shtick. Stealing their livelihood. Stealing 'what makes them special.'
Sort of like stealing a cowboy's horse, w/o his horse he is just another laborer.
Or like corporate espionage, stealing trade secrets or propietatry technology.

Could be ugly. I assume you've read the spell creation/conversion rules in NB:3. In order to have a chance to be successful, you have to be a real bad@$$ wizard.

I thought they had addressed this on the old FAQ at somepoint. IIRC you bsaiclly can jut make Elemental spell an invocation BUT it is an invocation that is double the level of the elemental version. IE 4th level eath spell is an 8th level invocation.

Mind you I could be wrong and be totally in left field somewhere or even the bleachers.

The 'just doubling the PPE' quickie 'rule of thumb' changed with the publishing of spell creation and modification rules in "Through the Glass Darkly".

-------------------------------------
trivia: the term 'rule of thumb' came from the old english law that a man could not beat his wife with a stick bigger then his thumb.

[quote="drewkitty ~..~"]The 'just doubling the PPE' quickie 'rule of thumb' changed with the publishing of spell creation and modification rules in "Through the Glass Darkly".


I was meaning the actual level not the PPE cost. Also those rules, as far as I knew, though part of the "megaversal" system, were meant more for Nightspawn as opposed to generic use and not neccessarily the canon way to do spells. I could be wrong but it would seem a simpler way should be in order for tings like elemental spells and the Through the glass darkly shoudl be for all new spells or for people to convert spells from other systems in theri own games.

The rules in Through the Glass Darkly was the only published way to make and convert spells, thus it was The canon way to convert spells, before PF MOM1 was published.
Now there are Two canon ways. However, the TtGD set fit better with a moderate tech and high tech worlds/areas, while the set in PFMoM1 fit better for PF type worlds/areas.


Published: is a printed game book

Why have the Warlock OCC at all if you make ther spells into Invocations?

The PPE cost must be Higher and only access at level 12.

Or you could have a warlock cast it for the character...just saying.

I can't remember the book off the top of my head, I believe it was library of blethread but there was actually a passage about a cabal of mages that set out to convert all the warlock spells to invocations. They disappeared mysteriously when their mountain top flooded and then turned into volcano after an earthquake....

Prince Artemis wrote:I can't remember the book off the top of my head, I believe it was library of blethread but there was actually a passage about a cabal of mages that set out to convert all the warlock spells to invocations. They disappeared mysteriously when their mountain top flooded and then turned into volcano after an earthquake....

*whistles innocently while looking about*
It wasn't me....

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:You also need to know that Warlocks hate it when "regular" mages start casting "their" spells.

Yes, very much so...

jaymz wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:The 'just doubling the PPE' quickie 'rule of thumb' changed with the publishing of spell creation and modification rules in "Through the Glass Darkly".


I was meaning the actual level not the PPE cost. Also those rules, as far as I knew, though part of the "megaversal" system, were meant more for Nightspawn as opposed to generic use and not neccessarily the canon way to do spells. I could be wrong but it would seem a simpler way should be in order for tings like elemental spells and the Through the glass darkly shoudl be for all new spells or for people to convert spells from other systems in theri own games.

IIRC, TtGD states that the level of a converted spell (from a specialized magic to general magic) is +5 the original spell's level.

So if I wanted to convert a level 3 necro-magic spell to a general spell it would be level 8.

Warlock spells are not spells per say but more of focuses to tap into and shape the elemental forces that they are associated with.