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i thought aps metal only cut your speed by half, but maybe im remembering it wrong.

Yes, you could still fly, but your flight speed would be reduced by whatever amount APS: Metal stats.

Torch wrote:With APS: Metal, your speed is reduced to 25%, and your weight is multiplied by 4. If you had a flight power, could you still fly being that heavy? If yes, would your speed be cut down even more than the normal 75%?
With Gravity Manipulation you can increase weight 50 times, but you are unable to move. Can you still teleport though?
What would the damage if 30,000 pounds fell on a PC? Would the distance the weight fell matter? You know, terminal velocity.

Consensus is that...

A) yes, the reduced Speed works against your other movement rates, including flight
B) using gravity manipulation to immobilise works normally (IE immobilises). using the broader weight application works as normal (and there is a good chance that superhuman PS of the character is sufficient to allow him to stand)
C) I don't have the actual numbers handy, but I believe that it's 1D6 per 10lbs and another D6 for every 10 feet. Those numbers become very unweildy and unsportsmanlike very quickly ( a car crash at 60mph inflicts 6D8 damage, but the 150lbs driver inflicts 15D6 by falling on you from 10 feet up?)
I guess it would be '30,000lbs of what?'. a single drop of madeupite, a quarter inch across weighing 6 tons is not quite the same as a 6 ton campervan, 6 tons of bricks or six tons of feathers (which could take a while to fall)
If I had to make an assesment quickly, I'd use the car crash rules, and find the nearest weighted vehicle, and have it moving at one MPH per foot it dropped.

Batts

Per the weight-flight question, I would actually posit that it depends on what type of flight you possess. Winged flight would absolutely be altered, since weight is a crucial element of the flight equation when dealing with wings.

However, we don't quite know what the science is behind wingless flight - and for the major power of Sonic flight, reducing the speed dependent on the weight of the character could conceivably make it subsonic flight, which might defeat the purpose of taking that power.

Bear in mind that there are a few very heavy things which fly very fast - they have massive weight, but are able to counter that weight with thrust. Without knowing exactly how thrust is attained with wingless flight, it would be very hard to say that weight is a factor at all.

Torch wrote:With APS: Metal, your speed is reduced to 25%, and your weight is multiplied by 4. If you had a flight power, could you still fly being that heavy? If yes, would your speed be cut down even more than the normal 75%?

Yes, but I'd say that your stall speed increases. No, speed is reduced by the amount listed.

With Gravity Manipulation you can increase weight 50 times, but you are unable to move. Can you still teleport though?

As long as you don't have to step through anything to teleport, yes.

What would the damage if 30,000 pounds fell on a PC? Would the distance the weight fell matter? You know, terminal velocity.

In either case, instant death. No need for any dice to be rolled.

LeeNapier wrote:Per the weight-flight question, I would actually posit that it depends on what type of flight you possess. Winged flight would absolutely be altered, since weight is a crucial element of the flight equation when dealing with wings.

However, we don't quite know what the science is behind wingless flight - and for the major power of Sonic flight, reducing the speed dependent on the weight of the character could conceivably make it subsonic flight, which might defeat the purpose of taking that power.

Bear in mind that there are a few very heavy things which fly very fast - they have massive weight, but are able to counter that weight with thrust. Without knowing exactly how thrust is attained with wingless flight, it would be very hard to say that weight is a factor at all.

Pfft, yoru assusmign winged flight has understood phisics behind it. what if winged charctesr abiltiy to fly make sno actual sense(he's to haeavy his wings aren't big enough etc....)

Torch wrote:With APS: Metal, your speed is reduced to 25%, and your weight is multiplied by 4. If you had a flight power, could you still fly being that heavy?

You would still be able to fly, provided that your weight does not exceed the weight limitation set forth by the flight power. Going to APS Metal increases your weight to something like 800+ lbs., so you'd have to check the weight limitation for the particular flight power the character has.

Torch wrote:If yes, would your speed be cut down even more than the normal 75%?

Yes, the flight speed would be decreased by the same amount your walking or running speed would be decreased by.

Torch wrote:With Gravity Manipulation you can increase weight 50 times, but you are unable to move. Can you still teleport though?

I'd say that you could still teleport. You can't physically walk/crawl/run/fly to another place, but teleportation moves you in a dimension-altering way (meaning you are just instantly transported to a location without having to work at getting there). You wouldn't be able to move once you got to the new location (unless the GM wore off), but you could teleport there.

Torch wrote:What would the damage if 30,000 pounds fell on a PC? Would the distance the weight fell matter? You know, terminal velocity.

I don't care what the AR or SDC of said PC is - if a 30,000 lb object (15 tons) fell on someone, they would be crushed to death instantaneously. Only immortals or those PCs that have the ability to live forever and never die wouldn't be killed. They would be seriously maimed and may not be able to do anything even after the object is lifted off of them, but they wouldn't be killed. Everyone else? Red pancakes on the landscaping.

And yes, this includes those PCs that have some form of regeneration. Most regeneration powers state that they only work until the PC hits a certain amount of HP below 0, at which point they cannot regenerate. In this situation, being crushed thusly would reduce someone to around -30,000 HP.

Severus Snape wrote:

Torch wrote:What would the damage if 30,000 pounds fell on a PC? Would the distance the weight fell matter? You know, terminal velocity.

I don't care what the AR or SDC of said PC is - if a 30,000 lb object (15 tons) fell on someone, they would be crushed to death instantaneously. Only immortals or those PCs that have the ability to live forever and never die wouldn't be killed. They would be seriously maimed and may not be able to do anything even after the object is lifted off of them, but they wouldn't be killed. Everyone else? Red pancakes on the landscaping.

And yes, this includes those PCs that have some form of regeneration. Most regeneration powers state that they only work until the PC hits a certain amount of HP below 0, at which point they cannot regenerate. In this situation, being crushed thusly would reduce someone to around -30,000 HP.

whoah a minute there.... If Brutious Max (APS stone, supernatural PS 60) gets hit by a 15 ton campervan, one he can lift mind you, then I'd have to check the actual damage before ruling him a red (or grey) smear. Yeah if you, me or Bob got himself crushed by this I'd rule instadeath easilly, BUT this is Heroes unlimited, and there are some wacky options going on all over the place. N&SS puts damage from falling objects as 1D8 per 100lbs and 1D8 per 40 feet. now 300D8 sounds like a lot (1350 damage on average) that's not a death sentence for everyone. admittdedly it's not -Easy- to survive it, but any number of power suites can be gotten to absorb it. even excluding outright invulnerability. The subsequent crushing of course is a different issue though.

Batts

Iczer wrote:

Severus Snape wrote:

Torch wrote:What would the damage if 30,000 pounds fell on a PC? Would the distance the weight fell matter? You know, terminal velocity.

I don't care what the AR or SDC of said PC is - if a 30,000 lb object (15 tons) fell on someone, they would be crushed to death instantaneously. Only immortals or those PCs that have the ability to live forever and never die wouldn't be killed. They would be seriously maimed and may not be able to do anything even after the object is lifted off of them, but they wouldn't be killed. Everyone else? Red pancakes on the landscaping.

And yes, this includes those PCs that have some form of regeneration. Most regeneration powers state that they only work until the PC hits a certain amount of HP below 0, at which point they cannot regenerate. In this situation, being crushed thusly would reduce someone to around -30,000 HP.

whoah a minute there.... If Brutious Max (APS stone, supernatural PS 60) gets hit by a 15 ton campervan, one he can lift mind you, then I'd have to check the actual damage before ruling him a red (or grey) smear. Yeah if you, me or Bob got himself crushed by this I'd rule instadeath easilly, BUT this is Heroes unlimited, and there are some wacky options going on all over the place. N&SS puts damage from falling objects as 1D8 per 100lbs and 1D8 per 40 feet. now 300D8 sounds like a lot (1350 damage on average) that's not a death sentence for everyone. admittdedly it's not -Easy- to survive it, but any number of power suites can be gotten to absorb it. even excluding outright invulnerability. The subsequent crushing of course is a different issue though.

Batts

What I'm getting at here is the crushing aspect of the extremely large rock. I realize that there are power combinations, and armor variants, that could allow someone to soak all of the SDC damage from being physically hit by the stone. But if the thing lands on you, you are crushed. I don't care if your body can soak 1,000 SDC from being struck - you are flattened from the sheer size and weight of the rock being on top of you.

Mephisto wrote:and being hit by a campervan would probably crumple around Brutious Max, creating a very unpleasant coffin, but one he could probably bend and twist to get out of. Being flattened by a rock of that size, yeah I hope he can dodge it.

If Extraordinary, Superhuman or Supernatural Strong enough to Lift/Carry the Rock, I'd rule they can try to Catch the rock or Parry the rock with a Backhand to deflect it. Or Powerpunch the thing as someone mentioned.

Their should be a set Max for Fall Damages or damage from Heavy objects. I remember seeing one in one of the books somewhere.

But its somewhere around 2d6x10 damage range.

ALSO...
No reason why an an APS character would become Slower.
The Added PS plus Extraordinary/Superhuman Equivient they can with should allow them to remain at normal Speeds.
If I have a Superhuman PS Metal Man with a PS 50. There is no reason he could not run at his normal Spd. He can Lift/carry much more than his added weight to Strength ratio when campaired to his Human form's Strength to weight ratio.

Just IGNORE the Reduced Speed crap.

Ignore reduced speeds for any Super-Movement Powers.

SpeedMetal NPC from the Books does not reduce his Sonic Speed power afterall.
Neither does Any NPC in the books.

Torch wrote:With APS: Metal, your speed is reduced to 25%, and your weight is multiplied by 4. If you had a flight power, could you still fly being that heavy? If yes, would your speed be cut down even more than the normal 75%?
With Gravity Manipulation you can increase weight 50 times, but you are unable to move. Can you still teleport though?
What would the damage if 30,000 pounds fell on a PC? Would the distance the weight fell matter? You know, terminal velocity.

If you want to be technical about it, it is only talking about the running speed attribute.
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Yes, you could still fly if you had wingless flight, or the sonic flight powers. I would not reduce the flight speed of these two super powers.
Winged flight, *shrugs* I would say that would be up to your GM, but I would not get my hopes up.*imagines a wings bullet smashing into the ground*
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Teleporting bypasses the space between the two places. Thus bypassing the grav.-manip. effects. Or even T-porting out of the Grav.-Manip. effect.
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Dropped object: 3d6 per 100 Lb. 3d6x300 would be the damage from a 30,000 lb. object
Collision damage: 2d4 per 10 mph 16d4 from a 80 mph collision vs a stationary object

A 1845 lb. dragon like char has a Term V @ sea level:(about) 471.122 feet/sec or 321.2 mph. Needing 4700 feet alt to reach Term. V. Giving a Collision damage @ Term. V. of 64d4.

So the total damages would be between 964 and 5656 damage. (using the T.V. of 1845 lb dragon like char)

Yes. the dragon like char is one of mine. And think the above might be in MD rates so you might have to find the Normal Damage ratings for weight and collision damages.. So I did a bit of research on-line to figure out the char's Terminal V.

However, the Terminal V of an object, is in part, determined by it's Shape. So you can't find out the Term. V of an object just described with a weight.


As to the above mention of parrying a rock or such. The Char would be moving himself out of the way with such a try. Not moving the 30,000 lb. object to the side. That is unless the char weighs 30,000 lb. or more. Then they could parry it normally. As per the one of Newton's laws of physics.