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As a GM, do you allow players of the more scholarly type magic OCCs (Line Walker, Lord Magus, High Magus, ect) to research and develop their own spells?

I've been looking at Through the Glass Darkly and been thinking of modifying this to fit Rifts. Any one else do this or have suggestions on how to do such.

Right now I have a Lord Magus that would like to modify Mask of Deceit to cover the whole body rather than just the face, as an example.

For us, traditionally, any new spells aren't developed in-game.

The reason being is that it would take all the character's time and leave basically no room for role playing.

well sometimes in between adventures we will essentially "fast forward" a certain amount of time, to allow for healing and such, and possibly researching spells, getting armor repaired, ect.

Sure. Why not? But it nets out the same as not developing them in-game, I guess. In such case though it's just a matter of time. To me, it takes a long time assuming it's in the realm of magic practitioners to accomplish in the first place. Gods have the kind of time and power (and hit points) to dabble with unknown magic.

Lucky wrote:

Natasha wrote:For us, traditionally, any new spells aren't developed in-game.

The reason being is that it would take all the character's time and leave basically no room for role playing.

I don't really agree with this; if it is something that is an ambition of the character, then it is something they should play out, or at least the critical moments of testing or failure/success.

I would rule it something like this:

Mage needs to study for x amount of time, and during that time will make the following rolls:

x lore: magic
x advanced math/chemistry/etc.
x saves vs. magic (or something else, I'm riffing here)

Any failures means the spell does not work, the PPE is expended and nothing happens, OR, the spell has misfired with unintentional consequences (make one up or use a random table). Once everything is a success, the spell works as intended. I would probably rule that the new spell costs double the original unmodified spell (the spell has not had the benefit of generations of spellcasters to test, revise and improve upon it that most common invocations have enjoyed).

Spell creation is something that takes years, decades or even centuries to perfect. Even if your mage is a prodigy it should not be easy, and there can be all sorts of hilarious, embarrassing or even serious side effects. This type of work can be an adventure in itself, and you can fast-forward through all of the boring parts as you see fit.

I don't understand; if it takes years it still seems like he's never really leaving the house?

Yeah, I have to agree with Lucky here. I think your proposed system would work well, and meshes with what is in Through the Glass Darkly pretty well. There is a random table in that book for what happens if you fail too.

But as far as playing it out vs. not playing it out...it's like what we do in our BTS game with the research skill. You don't RP every bit of research by saying something like, "I check out book X, ok, now I take it home and read it, OK, now I return it and check out book Y..."

you say "I spend 3 days researching topic X, here are 3 research rolls, fail, pass, epic fail..." then the GM says "you strike out on day one, find X on day 2, and the library burns down on day 3" or something like that. then you go on your adventure, and after the adventure, spend a few more days doing research, ect. after a certain period of time, you would have accumulated enough knowledge to attempt the spell you think you created. so right before the next adventure you make some rolls, and either have a new spell for the next adventure, or poof, you start off with a little less PPE and maybe some nasty side effects.

You still account for the time, you just don't play out every minute detail.

Something that nobody has mentioned yet is that one needs to go out and find the arcane texts, relieve their current owners of their need for them, and then get them safely back to the basement without losing them BEFORE you can pore through them. And that sounds like an adventure hook if I ever heard one.

Character A is a mage, and wants to create his own spell. In order to do so, he needs to go to Location A to (hopefully) get a copy of Book A. Unfortunately, he has to convince the rest of the party that this is worthwhile. He could get to Location A and find nothing. He could find a clue as to what may be the location. He may find Book A and after reading it find out that he really needs Book B. It could be that the book he wants is actually a plot device for some sick cult (ala Dead Reign).

Stating that the player wouldn't have any time for actual playing is silly. Sure, all players want to be involved. But there are times that things only affect 1 person. An example of this is in combat. What do you do when your character is frozen/petrified/sleeping and the rest of the players aren't? Or your character is under the effects of Slow Motion Control, giving you additional time to do stuff in a combat round, and the other players aren't? What about all those times where parties split up (which ALWAYS happens), and you've got players doing stuff on their own? This is no different. Instead of going to the library to do research on something, the player is opting to stay at home to do the same research.

Natasha wrote:For us, traditionally, any new spells aren't developed in-game.

The reason being is that it would take all the character's time and leave basically no room for role playing.

Let them make their own spells at home, and you check them over right before game time.

As for the character: "3 weeks have passed". You dont really need to roleplay every detail of the process.

Right but other stuff happens in those 3 weeks to the rest of the crew. At least if they're an active crew (and if you assume 3 weeks is long enough in the first place, which I don't). So really it's just a question of playstyle.

kmspade wrote:As a GM, do you allow players of the more scholarly type magic OCCs (Line Walker, Lord Magus, High Magus, etc...) to research and develop their own spells?

I've been looking at Through the Glass Darkly and been thinking of modifying this to fit Rifts. Any one else do this or have suggestions on how to do such.

Right now I have a Lord Magus that would like to modify Mask of Deceit to cover the whole body rather than just the face, as an example.

All Mages that learned their trade, like wizards, mystic study's, and LLW's can use the Spell creation & modification rules in TtGD equally. Intuitive mage types, like mystics, can't.

I use the rules as is for all settings. However, the research time should be shoved off into Fast Forward times, for ease of play.

Mod'ing the the MoD is with in the rules.

Through the Glass Darkly. A Nightbane sourcebook.

Jorel wrote:Through the Glass Darkly. A Nightbane sourcebook.

It contains the megaversal spell creation and modification rules.

Lucky wrote:

Kahuna wrote: I don't know about everyone else, but the older I've gotten the less time I have available to play these things.

Man, I hear that. Can someone write the spell that makes Saturdays last twice as long?

I feel your pain... I too have had less time to play, and scheduling conflicts always seem to pop up. That's why I've turned to play by post. I can post when I have time to do so, any time of the day or night. The only drawback is that it makes for a slower paced game. But for me and my busy schedule, it's only a minor drawback.

Back on the topic...I think I'll probably solicit my GM to allow the Through the Glass Darkly rules, maybe with some slight modifications, for Rifts.