Forums of the Megaverse®

Posted: **Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:31 am**

I noticed in the online store they are taking pre-orders for LOD 3: The Bleakness and I was wondering if anyone knew the approximate release date for this one?

(I'm happy to pre-order a book, but not if it's not coming out within the next 3-6 months)

The first two were excellent, and I'm really hoping the third will wrap up the trilogy with the same level of coolness.

Posted: **Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:38 am**

Yes this is a book that I would love to see get released. I to loved the first two book, and I think it would be a great way for palladium to get back to the pfrpg. Lets hope that this book come's out in the next 6-12 months and not the next two to three years.

Posted: **Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:15 pm**

A real shame, that's part of the problem with having so many different product lines and so few writers, a lot of the really unique lines (like Night Bane) fall by the wayside and stuff like PF takes a back seat to better selling Rifts materials.

Thinking on it, it would perhaps work better if Kevin hired some kind of oversight managers to take over production of the other product lines (as in hiring the freelancers, organizing the book etc.. form conception through to printing and shipping) and focus himself on only one product, such as Rifts.

That way more products could be released at a better rate and cater to the wider audience that doesn't always play every single line of Palladiums products. Wishful thinking I know, but it would certainly give them a major influx of cash/popularity then 1-2 books a year for only one or two settings.

Edit: According to some recent digging I've done LOD 3: The Bleakness has been on pre-order since around 2003-2004? :eek:

Posted: **Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:00 pm**

yeah I don't see the book comn' out Any time soon, and that blows because PFRPG is hands down my favorite of all the settings Palladium puts out, and don't forget about the MOM books..I think those are going to be comn' out before anymore worldbooks for PF

Posted: **Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:11 pm**

A pity their other products (especially pfrpg) doensn't get 1/2 the support their Rifts line does. Combined, I'd guess the total number of fans for their other products vastly exceeds the # of fans that are solely Rifts buyers. (from what I've seen a lot who buy Rifts also buy other Palladiums games, sadly the reverse seems less often.)

Posted: **Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:35 pm**

The Manuscript was handed in but it was totally overpowered to be playable. Probably realistic but unplayable. The other two books were toned down a lot too. So it was released with the thought that the book would be good to go. Turns out not.

Posted: **Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:11 pm**

Ah, well it *is* The Land of the Damned after all, a certain amount of near god like power is to be expected from the major evils attempting to be in charge of the place.

Still that's only stats, the world info would still be a real gem; weird it's taking them almost 8 years to tone down the stats for the book. (One would think the original writer could have done a stat tone down in 6 months at the most, or any other freelancer that knows the PF setting and what would be balanced )

Posted: **Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:30 pm**

Correct on all accounts except for a tentative future release date. For all intents and purposes it will never be released.

It may some day see the light of day. However, with the current release schedule for PB, things stated by Kevin and things talked about by other staff I'd doubt it'll ever see the light of day. If it does I'd be shocked if it was sooner than 4-5 years from now. I can think of at least 20-30 books PB would be likely to publish first before Kevin ever sat down to rewrite LOD: 3 to release it in a form that was satisfactory to him. He'll probably do it some day, if the company is on a good footing, but it is going to be a very distant day.

Not PFRPG related, but the same goes with Rifts Australia 2 and 3, China 3 and to a lesser extent Mechanoids space. They may some day be released, but it is going to be years and years from now.
-Matt

Posted: **Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:45 pm**

Are fans really so eager for more Rifts books and more vampire related stuff (likely with a lot of reprinted material from the other vampire lore in palladium's other products?) It could be just me but I would imagine after 30-40 rifts books fans of the setting would have had their fill of it by now more or less. *shrugs*

Posted: **Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:51 pm**

Silveressa wrote:(One would think the original writer could have done a stat tone down in 6 months at the most, or any other freelancer that knows the PF setting and what would be balanced )

Greetings and Salutations. Unfortunately Bill Coffin (the writer of that book and several of the other PF books) no longer works with the company. He's the one who did the first two books, and wrote the third (the last thing he wrote for Palladium, I believe). I also believe (again, could be wrong) that he had more or less refused to rewrite it because he felt it was good the way it was. His departure from Palladium is when PF really started to dwindle. As for freelancers, they pick their own projects. Most of them play, run, and like to write for Rifts. So if Palladium can get some good, reliable freelancers that prove themselves first, and then express the desire to finish Land of the Damned with ideas to back it up they may get the chance.

From what I know and heard (I'm in no way connected to Palladium Books, and my memory could be faulty so don't take this as official or anything like that), Kevin may indeed try to finish the books himself one day (just so they're finished), but that probably isn't any time soon. With Palladium struggling financially he really can't take the time to dedicate to it right now. When he does get the time, the two BtS books are likely to come first. Note: I could be wrong, but I don't think Kevin had ever intended to see Land of the Damned in print in the first place. He let Bill Coffin run with it, but now that Bill is gone it's not something high up on Kevin's list beyond seeing the series completed since it was started. Again, could be wrong, so don't mark my words on this part.

As for the lethal nature of it, I believe I heard in the past that there were just parts "If you go in the room, you die!" No saving throws, no defense, just death. And I guess there were a lot of parts like that were it was just death, and Kevin just didn't think that would be very fun (which I could kind of agree with). Now if that's some exaggeration or my memory is mistake, that's possible too. I'm not trying to insult anyone on the matter or spread rumors. But if that's the case (or something similar) it probably involves more than just a few stat block changes.

For the record, not trying to start conflict or start he said, she said. I just wanted to try and provide some information so the Land of the Damned situation is better understood to why it's still not out (after many, many years). Thank you for your time and patience, please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys for now.

Posted: **Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:59 pm**

Prysus wrote:
Silveressa wrote:(One would think the original writer could have done a stat tone down in 6 months at the most, or any other freelancer that knows the PF setting and what would be balanced )

Greetings and Salutations. Unfortunately Bill Coffin (the writer of that book and several of the other PF books) no longer works with the company. He's the one who did the first two books, and wrote the third (the last thing he wrote for Palladium, I believe). I also believe (again, could be wrong) that he had more or less refused to rewrite it because he felt it was good the way it was. His departure from Palladium is when PF really started to dwindle. As for freelancers, they pick their own projects. Most of them play, run, and like to write for Rifts. So if Palladium can get some good, reliable freelancers that prove themselves first, and then express the desire to finish Land of the Damned with ideas to back it up they may get the chance.

From what I know and heard (I'm in no way connected to Palladium Books, and my memory could be faulty so don't take this as official or anything like that), Kevin may indeed try to finish the books himself one day (just so they're finished), but that probably isn't any time soon. With Palladium struggling financially he really can't take the time to dedicate to it right now. When he does get the time, the two BtS books are likely to come first. Note: I could be wrong, but I don't think Kevin had ever intended to see Land of the Damned in print in the first place. He let Bill Coffin run with it, but now that Bill is gone it's not something high up on Kevin's list beyond seeing the series completed since it was started. Again, could be wrong, so don't mark my words on this part.

As for the lethal nature of it, I believe I heard in the past that there were just parts "If you go in the room, you die!" No saving throws, no defense, just death. And I guess there were a lot of parts like that were it was just death, and Kevin just didn't think that would be very fun (which I could kind of agree with). Now if that's some exaggeration or my memory is mistake, that's possible too. I'm not trying to insult anyone on the matter or spread rumors. But if that's the case (or something similar) it probably involves more than just a few stat block changes.

For the record, not trying to start conflict or start he said, she said. I just wanted to try and provide some information so the Land of the Damned situation is better understood to why it's still not out (after many, many years). Thank you for your time and patience, please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys for now.

lol so... when are you going to get started my friend?

Posted: **Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:47 pm**

Prysus wrote:
As for the lethal nature of it, I believe I heard in the past that there were just parts "If you go in the room, you die!" No saving throws, no defense, just death. And I guess there were a lot of parts like that were it was just death.

Actually that could be incredibly, interestingly cool. (one sec and I'll explain how)

(also I'm assuming this is referring to the huge chaos tower in the center, and rooms that simply kill a person in whatever creative way was devised)

Imagine in this giant tower of doom, when one died their spirit/ghost remained, perhaps with a ghostly after image of any equipment/weapons they were closely connected with (kind of a residual ppe version of it)

Now as a ghost there would be spiritual version of the tower for one to interact with, (perhaps the tower stores ghosts in this "alternate plane" for later consumption to boost it's ppe, keep it repaired whatever.)

Perhaps also within this spiritual version of the tower is runes, or an ancient spirit or whatever that would be capable of resurrecting the persons body outside the tower, in a plane of Hades where ever, but only *if* whatever interesting/challenging adventure is completed on the "dead side" of the tower first. Maybe the tower itself is only vulnerable from the spiritual/astral plane, and can be critically wounded or maybe even destroyed/banished from there if one is creative and lucky enough.

The tower itself might even be willing to bring back heroes that sign some kind of pact with it to slay another of its enemies, or perform some other duty in its honor (with it able to haunt their dreams as it desires until they finish maybe causing temporary insanities or whatever.)

It gives the tower a whole different feeling/theme then anywhere else in the world and makes it even more memorable/unique.

Posted: **Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:23 pm**

Sadly, one of their best writers for PF is gone, and I've kinda giving up hope of seeing anything outside of a Rifter for PF, leaving me with little to buy that has more then a passing interest. I've always felt the LoD books where some of PF's best stuff out there, but I've written off another good LoD. Even if it's release, it won't be Coffins so the feel will be completely different. I hope instead for them to pick up the more mundane of the world, such as the Old Kingdom, or South Wind, or a new Yin-Sloth for 2nd Edition.

Posted: **Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:54 pm**

I'm expecting the LOD 3 book to come out some time after Lamura to get published. It might even take as long as Lamura languished on the shelf before getting published.

It all depends on when KS gets to rewriting it.

Posted: **Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:11 am**

Silveressa wrote:A pity their other products (especially pfrpg) doensn't get 1/2 the support their Rifts line does. Combined, I'd guess the total number of fans for their other products vastly exceeds the # of fans that are solely Rifts buyers. (from what I've seen a lot who buy Rifts also buy other Palladiums games, sadly the reverse seems less often.)

And you see why PB has been losing some of its fanbase over the years... *shrug* People go where the customer support is. PF, NB, etc doesn't get customer support. We haven't since BC left.

Posted: **Fri Aug 06, 2010 4:01 am**

I would want to see Lopan & Phi, Land of the South winds, Old Kingdom Highlands, Old Kingdom Lowlands, Wolfen Wars then Land of the Damned.

All in that order (maybe Wolfen Wars could be afterwards) because I see the epic Citadel as being almost a climatic ending to Palladium continent. It IS the most difficult, evil place and it would be like adventuring in Mordor and then seeing "the Shire" /yawn. Most things would pale in comparison.

Posted: **Fri Aug 06, 2010 7:26 am**

The Dark Elf wrote:It IS the most difficult, evil place and it would be like adventuring in Mordor and then seeing "the Shire" /yawn. Most things would pale in comparison.

Very true, I never thought of it that way. It would be lovely to see more of the land detailed at some point in the near future, a shame it's unlikely to occur anytime soon.

Posted: **Fri Aug 06, 2010 7:39 am**

Silveressa wrote:A pity their other products (especially pfrpg) doensn't get 1/2 the support their Rifts line does. Combined, I'd guess the total number of fans for their other products vastly exceeds the # of fans that are solely Rifts buyers. (from what I've seen a lot who buy Rifts also buy other Palladiums games, sadly the reverse seems less often.)

A quick view of the forums here shows that the Rifts forum has much, much more activity than any of the other game forums. Chances are, those who play only Rifts, only buy other Palladium products to use as Rifts source material. There also seems to be a number of folks who simply buy any and all Palladium products.

Silveressa wrote:Are fans really so eager for more Rifts books and more vampire related stuff (likely with a lot of reprinted material from the other vampire lore in palladium's other products?) It could be just me but I would imagine after 30-40 rifts books fans of the setting would have had their fill of it by now more or less. *shrugs*

I don't know what the size of the Palladium world is compared to Earth, but to the best of my knowledge there's only 1 continent on Palladium vs 7 on Earth (8 if you count Atlantis now). There are a ton of books that Rifts fans have wanted since 1990 and haven't received yet. The new vampire books for example aren't really one of them (though to my knowledge all Palladium vampire lore is based off of Rifts vampires now), but fans really seem to like these old books getting expanded and re-printed with new/more information.

At any rate - I seriously doubt if this book will ever be printed.

Posted: **Fri Aug 06, 2010 7:57 am**

Dustin Fireblade wrote:A quick view of the forums here shows that the Rifts forum has much, much more activity than any of the other game forums.

I noticed that too, however I can't help but wonder if it's because Rifts is truly more popular, or because its the most heavily supported system on Palladiums line up. (assuming the activity on these boards is a accurate representation of a game lines respective popularity)

Edit:

One other question that springs to mind, since LOD book 3 is most likely vaporware why are they still taking pre-orders for it? Let alone been takign preorders since 2003/2004? (It raises false expectations and no doubt upsets those who pay money to pre-order it not knowing the low chance of it actually being released) It just strikes me as a bit underhanded/reputation damaging/borderline fraudulent to be taking pre-orders on a book unlikely to ever see the light of day.

Posted: **Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:36 am**

Likely a bit of both for the first, and the second is just, IMHO, bad business practices.

Posted: **Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:27 pm**

Greetings and Salutations. Just a few quick notes about the whole pre-order thing ...

1) I believe it was originally put up before Land of the Damned 2 even got released (because it was a known trilogy). At the time, the book was fully intended to be released, and probably no one had expected at the time the separation between Palladium Books and Bill Coffin. I know, still no excuse years later, but stating why it was put up in the first place.

2) Palladium rarely takes down their preorders. Unfortunately they stay up on their page for years and years. Palladium has had minimal updates on their website, more adding new books than anything else.

3) Palladium doesn't take any money from the pre-orders. Customers do not get billed until the book is ready to ship. That means the collected income from everyone who has preordered is $0. Hmm ... well, okay, maybe not technically true. I know at least one person sent in a money order for that kind of thing. Probably some others have as well. Though on a general rule Palladium doesn't take any money until the book is ready to ship

Now I'm not saying this makes leaving the pre-orders up on their site a great thing. I'm merely trying to make sure some of the other facts are known. If you don't like it that is well within your rights. For the record, yes it would be nice if Palladium took down those pre-orders until (at the very least) a new, usable manuscript was turned in (preferrably until the book is ready to publishing only a month or two away). However, with that said, it doesn't bother me the same as it bothers others (mainly because I've learned to basically ignore it). Thank you for your time and patience, please have a nice day to all. Farewell and safe journeys.

Posted: **Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:46 pm**

Prysus wrote:
2) Palladium rarely takes down their pre-orders.

Ah that's a bit different then. Usually when you pre-order something (like on amazon.com) they bill you then and they then ship the product when it gets released. The other way of billing you when it ships I would define more as a "reservation" but regardless, thanks for clarifying a few things for everyone, I appreciate it.

Posted: **Fri Aug 06, 2010 3:26 pm**

Yeah PB doesn't charge for pre-orders and it is their general policy if anything has been languishing in pre-order status for more than a few months that they'll contact the person who pre-ordered before charging and shipping the product, just to make sure they still want it months/years later.

I have heard it stated, possibly by a staff member, but I could be wrong about that, that PB does still pay attention to pre-orders and if enough people pre-order a product they try to make it more of a priority.

I don't know what the numbers they are looking for are, 50 people, 100, 300?

I know that pre-orders tend to be a pretty small number of overall orders and distributor numbers. Obviously PB isn't sharing exact shipping numbers on different products, but if I were to take a WAG I'd say that they ship in the first year at least 100 books to distributors, directly to stores and to fans who purchase through their website for every 1 that pre-ordered the book. So whatever their normal ratio is, they probably compare their ratio to the number of people who pre-order and figure out if it might be worthwhile making a book more of a priority.

At any rate, there are plenty of other books I'd like to see before LOD:3. I still want to see it, but I agree it is a little like the mordor WB before the shire WB.

It'd be nice to see another mysteries of magic book, but before/in addition I'd like to see Yin Sloth revised at a bare minimum (since everything I have heard says it is done, just needs editor/kevin review to go to print) and also another WB, such as Phi/Lopan, South Winds, etc.
-Matt

PS I can't imagine that unless Yin Sloth was heavily rewritten/exapanded upon to make it 2nd edition that editting and minor writting tweaks isn't something that could be accomplished in a week or two of editing work. Of course you probably wouldn't see mass orders for the book, but I know I'd personally order it and I bet they'd see a number of others. Maybe more of a print on demand or a very small bulk order compared to a brand new release book...but with the limited time I'd expect it to take to get to print it seems like it would be worthwhile to green light it moving forward, at least this year or very early next year if not sooner.

Posted: **Fri Aug 06, 2010 3:32 pm**

Aye, a 2nd edition Yinsloth would be nice to see (I already have 1st edition but 2nd would be one I'd buy as well) it's a real shame they lost Bill Coffin, his PF work is my all time favorite.

Posted: **Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:54 am**

If anyone would like to see a book go to print then we should pm kevin. If they know there is demand for a book, they might get work on it sooner rather then later.

Posted: **Sat Aug 07, 2010 11:40 am**

cl7277 wrote:If anyone would like to see a book go to print then we should pm kevin. If they know there is demand for a book, they might get work on it sooner rather then later.

This is true. As customers you have the right to contact Palladium and make your voice heard. If there is enough demand you never know. Pre-order or contact Palladium via phone, snail male, or PM.

Bill Coffin's work for PFRPG was epic and he left some pretty big shoes to fill.

Carl

Posted: **Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:51 pm**

Carl Gleba wrote:Bill Coffin's work for PFRPG was epic and he left some pretty big shoes to fill.

Carl

i agree, but i hope someone steps up to the plate (how about you Carl? i really enjoyed your work on hades/dyval). fantasy is the only palladium game i still play these days (years actually). it feels like there are only a few essential books left to fill in all the holes (uncharted territories like old kingdom, lotsw etc) and the setting would be pretty much complete. after that i wouldnt mind it getting left behind so much. in a game like this its always possible to keep putting out books that expand on things (like mysteries of magic, monsters and animals, equipment/magic items) and keep the fans happy. we seem to be pretty patient when it comes to a slow trickle of books, but most of us are getting pretty tired of joking about the old kingdom books and the other stuff that is apparently languishing on a shelf somewhere awaiting the final edit.

Posted: **Sat Aug 07, 2010 7:20 pm**

t0m wrote: but most of us are getting pretty tired of joking about the old kingdom books and the other stuff that is apparently languishing on a shelf somewhere awaiting the final edit.

Perhaps if the powers that be hired/appointed some kind of editor to finalize such books they would get done sometime before 2020? Routing every single book through a single person for editing etc.. before it hits the shelves is a real inefficient method for keeping fans happy/turning a profit.

With other companies releasing settings like Path Finder (which uses the PF abbreviation btw) that get a insane amount of support/products released, Palladium may find only a handful of fans left for its Fantasy setting by the time they do release more content for it, the rest having moved on to fantasy settings that are better supported.

Which is a real shame given the greatness of the Palladium fantasy setting, but it's hard to interest a group of players to give it a go (or to keep playing the setting) when it hasn't seen a new book released in years, (aside from mysteries of magic which was a bit thin on content and not even 100 pages) and they all are flooded with adverts for d20 & Path finder products, with their full color artwork (often hard cover books) and seemingly endless stream of new content.

Posted: **Sat Aug 07, 2010 9:01 pm**

I'd agree, it's always a sign of a problem when there is only one person in any company who can do a given job, due to the harshness of reality. If that one person is sick for a month, that job can't be done, and everything in that company grinds to a halt over that one person's job. My own job got this through their head (just a warehouse, but the rule applies just the same), and cross-trained everyone in forklift operation, different sorting operations, and costumer service so we can fill gaps if need be. Having only a single editor / proofer is harsh both on that person, the company, and their fan base. My LGS recently took down their Palladium Books spot due to lack of product, though they still know well enough to buy a copy for me when product (Rarely) is released, but honestly I think I'm the only one locally who buys it at this point, and that's a sign of a death spiral, which is a very serious problem.

Posted: **Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:25 pm**

Palladium actually has at least three editors that I know of. Kevin, Alex and Wayne. I also believe that everyone in the office can do multiple jobs when it come to producing product. It is my understanding that Kevin is quality control. Books just don't get put out with his once through. After all it is his company and I can't blame him for wanting to make sure good product is put out. Also given Palladium's current situation they just don't have the resources to hire extra help at this time.

I hear what you folks are saying in that PF does need support and that there are people out there willing to buy the product. The problem is that Rifts at the moment out sells PF and Palladium needs that cash to keep going. They can't afford to work on a book, pay to print it, and only sell 1/10 of what a new Rifts book would sell. From a business point of view you need to make the hard decisions that are best for the company and may not be the most popular decision with the fans. Does it suck? Yes. Is Palladium trying to alienate its PF fans? Heck no!

t0m wrote:i agree, but i hope someone steps up to the plate (how about you Carl? i really enjoyed your work on hades/dyval). fantasy is the only palladium game i still play these days (years actually).

Thanks t0m. I'm glad you enjoyed Hades and Dyval :ok:

At this time my book ideas are for Rifts Dimension books. As i did with Hades and Dyval they will have M.D.C./S.D.C. stats to make them compatible with PF should GM decide to use them. I don't have any big ideas at the moment for PF, but if I do I would certainly love to write and contribute something to the setting.

Carl

Posted: **Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:01 am**

Carl Gleba wrote:It is my understanding that Kevin is quality control. Books just don't get put out with his once through.

There in lies the flaw in the entire organization. Perhaps if he allowed others to take over quality control for other lines and trust them to make the right choices, (I'm sure he has at least two or three trusted people who could handle quality control after this many years) then stuff thats 90% ready for the printer will actually see the light of day and turn revenue.

No matter how dedicated/skilled he is, Kevin is only just one (tremendously overworked) man. Delegating other lines to other quality control people and focusing on just one (likely Rifts) would lessen his load and boost release dates, perhaps allowing them to hit their deadlines more then 25% of the time.

Really the main reason Rifts outsells the rest of Palladiums products is because it's pretty much the only product that sees regular releases and gets pretty near all the love and attention while the rest seem to languish in near obscurity by comparison.

If they released more products for Nightbane and Palladium Fantasy, (two of their most popular next to Rifts and HU) the lines would sell far more. It'd be worth it for the Palladium marketing people to put up a poll on the website/ include a link to the pol in the rifter and find out just how many people want to see these other product lines supported. (I would guess the number of PF fans far outnumber the BTS fans, especially when BTS is competing with Night Bane & Dead Reign for the horror rpg slot)

Provided they supported the popular customer demand for other product lines in addition to pimping their Rifts line, the company's profit margin would likely increase immensely.

Posted: **Sun Aug 08, 2010 5:19 am**

Given some of the books are already written, all it would take is the go ahead for someone other then Kev to edit them and they could hit the shelves relatively quick.

I figure Palladium's sales and business much be better then they've let on, otherwise they would be releasing such products to boost their bottom line and profit margin. When a company is facing poor revenue and difficulty paying bills they usually do everything in their power to make money and stay in business, such as releasing products (in this case books) that are mostly complete and only need minimal finishing work before turning a revenue.

If they can afford to stall the release of such nearly complete products (assuming there are such products, which judging by comments from former workers and my conversations with others I assume there is) then it follows they aren't hurting for money and are instead "playing the market" so to speak, and holding onto them to release at a time when the product would be facing less competition and/or there is more interest in the product lines specific genre/setting.

Posted: **Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:22 am**

I think that PB/Kevin hasn't survived this long, through all they've been through, without being the astute businessman he is. I believe that Kevin's business plans always seem to involve looking for longevity. Quick cash influxes never involve rushing books. They always release books that Kevin is happy with.

The simple answer (again just IMO and Im not informed)to their non-release is that the manuscript wasn't good enough for Kevin. It needs to be rewritten or written again from scratch.

Things like YinSloth 2nd Ed are probably not released due to the executive decision that PB won't make enough money from an initial print (might make some, but profit vs expenditure=not enough) and the staff's time is required elsewhere on area's that will continue moving the company forward until such time as PF, BTS and others can get a look in.

With the competition in genre, you can see why PF (and BTS) take the back seat.

Posted: **Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:23 am**

Alot of books are in editing form but my need alot of rewriting. Remember south america books that were released and they were way over powered.

Posted: **Sun Aug 08, 2010 2:40 pm**

Just because a book is written and in Palladium's hands doesn't mean its can be "easily" pushed through and released. None of the freelancers including myself are professional writers. Most of use are still learning the craft and this is something that takes lots of practice. After 5 books I still have a lot to learn and improve upon.

If putting out books were as easy as you suggest Silveressa we wouldn't be having this conversation. If you want insight into this I suggest you check out some of the podcasts Kevin did at Gateway to the Megaverse.

Posted: **Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:37 pm**

Carl Gleba wrote:Just because a book is written and in Palladium's hands doesn't mean its can be "easily" pushed through and released. None of the freelancers including myself are professional writers. Most of use are still learning the craft and this is something that takes lots of practice. After 5 books I still have a lot to learn and improve upon.

Being the harsh critic I am, I will say you've come along way since Rifts: South America and Pantheons of the Megaverse. Hades and Dyval where both really good, I think you can start to apply that Professional title to yourself pretty soon.

Posted: **Sun Aug 08, 2010 7:18 pm**

Cinos wrote:
Carl Gleba wrote:Just because a book is written and in Palladium's hands doesn't mean its can be "easily" pushed through and released. None of the freelancers including myself are professional writers. Most of use are still learning the craft and this is something that takes lots of practice. After 5 books I still have a lot to learn and improve upon.

Being the harsh critic I am, I will say you've come along way since Rifts: South America and Pantheons of the Megaverse. Hades and Dyval where both really good, I think you can start to apply that Professional title to yourself pretty soon.

Well that's an awesome compliment. Thank you Cinos.

BUT, I didn't write the South America books or PoM. You're thinking of C.J. Carella, who is my inspiration for writing. I have a few credits to my name which can be found here: http://www.dimensionpress.com/

A note about the website. For some reason I.E. 8.0 does not show the navigation panel on the left. You can check out my credits there. I'll update the site one of these days.

Carl

Posted: **Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:35 pm**

cl7277 wrote:Alot of books are in editing form but my need alot of rewriting. Remember south america books that were released and they were way over powered.

Point of Contention - They are no more overpowered than books written by Kevin over the same time period.

Besides overpowered is defined by the GM not by the product. Those someof thebest books produced by PB and I think it was inpart BECAUSE it was rewritten by Kevin. I honestly beleive Kevin bites off more than he hcan chew most fo the imte and does not full trust anyone but himself to gothru edit and ok a product.

Dead Reign is a perfect example of this. The published product is VASTLY different than the original product submitted. Was this a good thing? I dare say most people would say no but Kevin has final say thus Kevin gets his way. It IS his compoany and that IS the way it should be but I ma just giving a few points to thikn about.

Posted: **Mon Aug 09, 2010 12:36 am**

jaymz wrote:
cl7277 wrote:Besides overpowered is defined by the GM not by the product. Those someof thebest books produced by PB and I think it was inpart BECAUSE it was rewritten by Kevin. I honestly beleive Kevin bites off more than he hcan chew most fo the imte and does not full trust anyone but himself to gothru edit and ok a product.

While I don't know him personally, this is a picture that seems clear to me as an outside observer, but his response during the Megaversal Crisis shows there's at least hope for him to remove some of the burden from himself, and let others take up the cup, more so that it sounds like his got more important things to do right now (Like spend time with his father).

Though I'm hardly in a place to truly speak on the issue, again, it's not like I've even had an extended conversation with the man (just a PM that made me giddy

), much less criticize him on his own forums. It all comes down to how he views his own standards, and personally wants to ensure everything is perfect before printing to the public, and there's only one way I think he knows how to do that, and that's to do it himself.

Posted: **Mon Aug 09, 2010 12:51 am**

Cinos wrote:
jaymz wrote:
cl7277 wrote:much less criticize him on his own forums.

I wouldn't worry too much about providing constructive criticism sense all it does is help give the company much need feedback from customers and concepts that might improve their sales.

Unfortunately, last I'd heard Keven doesn't even have an email account, or visit these forums unless prompted by someone else in the company. (Don't know if it's true or not, but just bringing it up for those who want to pass along feedback will know to send him a pm then coutn on him viewing these forums)

Posted: **Mon Aug 09, 2010 3:47 am**

Silveressa wrote:
Cinos wrote:
jaymz wrote:
cl7277 wrote:much less criticize him on his own forums.

I wouldn't worry too much about providing constructive criticism sense all it does is help give the company much need feedback from customers and concepts that might improve their sales.

Unfortunately, last I'd heard Keven doesn't even have an email account, or visit these forums unless prompted by someone else in the company. (Don't know if it's true or not, but just bringing it up for those who want to pass along feedback will know to send him a pm then coutn on him viewing these forums)

He does have an email account (just not public) and he does visit the boards.

Posted: **Mon Aug 09, 2010 4:28 am**

Good to know, how often does he visit the boards? Is there any reasonable chance of Kev reading threads with constructive feedback/suggestions, or is it better to toss them in a pm to him? (Provided you know of course)

Posted: **Mon Aug 09, 2010 12:53 pm**

Citizen Lazlo wrote:And as for LOD 3, there was a point where I would have given almost anything for this book. But now I think it's deader than the proverbial door nail.

I beleive that is what you call and understatement

Posted: **Mon Aug 09, 2010 1:21 pm**

Silveressa wrote:Good to know, how often does he visit the boards? Is there any reasonable chance of Kev reading threads with constructive feedback/suggestions, or is it better to toss them in a pm to him? (Provided you know of course)

List of Kevin's Posts

The above link will give you a list of all his posts and some idea how often he posts. The best bet to contact him though is by PM it just make take a week or two to hear back from him.

Posted: **Mon Aug 09, 2010 6:14 pm**

Citizen Lazlo wrote:And as for LOD 3, there was a point where I would have given almost anything for this book. But now I think it's deader than the proverbial door nail.

ill take the resurrected (or even undead) version then. this is a fantasy setting after all...anything is possible.

Posted: **Wed Aug 11, 2010 2:22 am**

Place your bets!

Will we see LOD 3 or Starcraft 3 first?

Posted: **Wed Aug 11, 2010 5:18 am**

Starcraft 3 (or World of Starcraft).

Posted: **Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:52 am**

Will we see a man on mars first or lod 3? Only time will tell. Lets hope that lod 3 comes first. One can only hope

Posted: **Tue Aug 24, 2010 3:28 pm**

Hmmm, this is harder, I'd bet on LoD3 on that one.

Posted: **Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:35 pm**

Carl Gleba wrote:Just because a book is written and in Palladium's hands doesn't mean its can be "easily" pushed through and released. None of the freelancers including myself are professional writers. Most of use are still learning the craft and this is something that takes lots of practice. After 5 books I still have a lot to learn and improve upon.

If putting out books were as easy as you suggest Silveressa we wouldn't be having this conversation. If you want insight into this I suggest you check out some of the podcasts Kevin did at Gateway to the Megaverse.

I've only listened to a few at this point. Has Kevin ever discussed The Bleakness in one of the podcasts?

C. Chopps

Forums of the Megaverse®

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