I'm on the palladium online store site, 99 percent away from

[dmart11]

buying all 3 dead reign books.

I am however a little bit skeptical about buying. I'm all for the premise of a zombie invasion but from what I hear of the series, I only have two problems with it.

1. The smart zombies
This idea in my opinion takes away from the very foundation of a zombie apocalypse. I know zero about dead reign but when I hear the term smart zombie, i think of a group of zombies in a room sitting at a table cooking up plots. I'm deeply hoping this isn't the case, and that the success of the vampire kingdom concept hasn't given birth to zombie empire fever! Could someone explain this and possibly put my fears to rest?

2. The food pens
It would seem that my fears explained in number one would be confirmed by the existance of a zombie food pen. If there are zombies organizing and utilizing farming techniques, I would just rather pass on this palladium offering.Some thing like this would make a zombie horde more like another alien race of the megaverse rather than the undead horror we're use to when we hear of zombies.

palladium is a very out the box, ground breaking company, but the zombie formula shouldn't be given the palladium treatment in this particular case. That being said, could somebody address my questions so I can decide on if I should buy these books or not?

[Silveressa]

Something to keep in mind about the setting, as gm you have "free reign" (if you'll pardon the pun) to ditch any aspect of the setting you don't want. If the smart zombies, (and yes there are some types that are "smart/er" then others) lessen the enjoyment of the setting then nix them from your game.

Ultimately There's no single thing in the DR books that can't be cut and still leave the setting fun and playable. (Less rich in some peoples opinion perhaps, but still just as much fun) I've played in a game where the zombie infestation was spread to include animals the zombies kill, and in another where the "beautiful zombie" archetype was cut because the gm felt them to be absurd and both were still a lot of fun.

[dmart11]

Something to keep in mind about the setting, as gm you have "free reign" (if you'll pardon the pun) to ditch any aspect of the setting you don't want. If the smart zombies, (and yes there are some types that are "smart/er" then others) lessen the enjoyment of the setting then nix them from your game.

I like to keep the palladium continuum as pure and unchanged as possible. This is why I've pushed the minion wars back by another 3000 years rather then just erase it from palladium altogether.

I've played in a game where the zombie infestation was spread to include animals the zombies kill,

This sounds like a VERY fun game setting!!!!

and in another where the "beautiful zombie" archetype was cut because the gm felt them to be absurd and both were still a lot of fun.

No! did you just say beautiful zombie?!?! um..maybe I'm going to have to pass on this one.
Sorry to any one who created this game and by no means do I mean any disrespect, but I'm not sure if I can plug into dead reign without trimming so much meat that only a bone would be left.

w

[jaymz]

IIRC the published game is very different from the original incarnation that was put out in the Rifter. That maybe more to your liking.

[Silveressa]

25%?

What happened to the rest and why didn't it make it into the source books to increase their famished page count?

[jaymz]

25%?

What happened to the rest and why didn't it make it into the source books to increase their famished page count?

Because the vast majority of the Original Source material the game was SUPPOSED to be based on got tossed out by Kevin and rewritten by Kevininto what he game is now. It was very different by my understanding and would/could not be included for use with what was already published.

[Silveressa]

Can you elaborate on that please? I'm curious what the original concept was before it got "redone" into its current state.

[jaymz]

If you have Rifter #45 that willexplain quite abit to the differences. Otherwise it is really hard to elaborate on it in any detail, sorry.

[dmart11]

If you have Rifter #45 that willexplain quite abit to the differences. Otherwise it is really hard to elaborate on it in any detail, sorry.

After reading though all 3 books, I'm not too hot about this series. I respect the effort and writing but my main opinion is that zombie invasions are very simple.This is one concept where the palladium treatment isn't needed, less is more. Basically, The zombie invasion is too complex and involved under the palladium light. I understand that a traditional hack an slash zombie game would grow boring within the first 15 minutes, but concepts like the zombie lover, smart zombie and pet zombies seem a bit tongue in cheek. I couldn't play this game and be terrified (as I would hope to be). i'm not saying it's a bad game, I'm just not able to get into this game.

on the other hand....
Keep the books coming palladium! maybe something will come of this series that will tie everything together.
Optimistically yours,
dmart

[azazel1024]

I don't really have an issue with the zombie varieties. A smart zombie isn't really something that is sitting around hatching plots, it is almost like an alpha male. It 'directs' other zombies and maybe comes up near a low deffinition of a stupid person. We are talking a zombie here, that if it were a person, would likely be living in a home bagging grocceries its entire life and its big success of the day would be tying its shoes on its own. Basically it is a zombie that isn't completely mindless, think animal level of intelligence instead of none what-so-ever. Maybe as bright as a really smart dog.

A beautiful zombie is just one that hasn't decayed really and was a good looking person before. A juggernaut zombie makes sense. Some runners in there makes sense as well. Etc, etc, etc. I am just fearful that suddenly we are going to get all resident evil and have enormous mutant zombie 'bosses' here and there. Now don't get me wrong, if some future supplement wants to maybe throw in a little potential plot, maybe say some crazy mad scientist who is experimenting on the zombies and how they are made who is churning out some one of a kind zombies I don't think I'd cry foul, I just think it would ruin it making it 'mainstream'.

I don't recall reading anything about food farms in any of the books.
-Matt

[Pepsi Jedi]

I'm a fan of the series, and yes there was some fireworks about the Kevin re-write. But to be honest. I prefer the re-write from the "original" Thing.

Long story short. the "First version" Had the Rise being due to a supernatural intelligence that wanted to come into the world and he had a cult that would kill most of the world population for the PPE surge to do the rite to bring him over. So the zombies were all supernatural and you had black robed supernatural mystics running around pulling the strings and what not.

Kevin's rewrite took most of that out. left it as a 'possible reason for t he rise" but made the 'setting' be more generic, so your storyteller or gm could make it what ever he wanted it to be. Plague, Unknown. Military, ect. what ever.

Which I very much prefer.

There was alot of stink made about it though. Some feathers were ruffled and the 'way' it was done was kinda.... not nice? It could have been handled better I guess. Basically the game was hyped as "Awesome sauce Awesome sauce Awesome sauce!.... Oh wait.... this is dumb I'm gonna re-write 75% of it, take the original writer's names off the book and put them in as contributors. Here. Now it's Awesome!" and that bent alot of people the wrong way. They demanded the original setting and work and to give Palladium credit, they put it out in a Rifter as an optional thing. SO people that wanted it could get the information. But yeah.... it wasn't handled that well in the process to get from A to Zed.

My only complaint about the series is that the second and third books were very extremely clearly -one- book. That was broken into two, slap a cover on the second one and charge more money for the two smaller books, than one book with the combined page count. Palladium has been having trouble getting out new product and needed the cash flow, sure. I get it. I understand it fit a hole in the release scheulde. I get it. I get all he 'possible' reasons for it. But as a buier. I just hold those two tiny books up next to each other. I read them and they're clearly cut from the same cloth and were cut in two for the extra $8 or so that would be garnered. That irks me a little bit.

But the stuff is pretty good. Especially the base book. And I hope we get that "City book" that was promised in one of the others.

[jaymz]

And before anyones asks....I already did off board and Josh can't really discuss much more than he has already said due to the non-disclosure agreement so best bet is don't ask.

It is sad that they only printed a snippet of the original material and said here is the basics of the orignal when it left out SO much additional info....

[Pepsi Jedi]

I'm a fan of the series, and yes there was some fireworks about the Kevin re-write. But to be honest. I prefer the re-write from the "original" Thing.

Everyone likes what they like and nobody can dictate someone else's likes. Of course it is impossible for you to have ever read the original version of Dead Reign.

From what's been presented to us. The concept presented to us. The stuff in the rifter presented to us. I prefer the more generic "It can be what you want" Vs the "Yet another Alien/supernatural/something or another intelligence theme. But yes. That's very much just me. When DR was being proposed I was worried I'd have to cut out the cults of the new Intelligence (Supernatural, alien, whatever)) and work it like a more traditional Zombie story. Then.. *Poof* It was done for me.

That being said, there's nothing wrong with the other way, it's just a personal preference. Some may prefer it the other way.

Long story short. the "First version" Had the Rise being due to a supernatural intelligence that wanted to come into the world and he had a cult that would kill most of the world population for the PPE surge to do the rite to bring him over. So the zombies were all supernatural and you had black robed supernatural mystics running around pulling the strings and what not.

He was NOT a Supernatural Intelligence, and that was a small portion of what the original manuscript encompassed. There was a completely developed gaming world that had many other threats and adventure/gaming possibilities. There were factions, NPC's, and potential future developments.

Supernatural Intelligence... Alien Intelligence... some sort of other worldly god/godling/really powerful frakin' monster... thing, with a cult on this side working to get him on earth. Right? It was something of that nature/flavor. I'm not trying to be a jerk but I remember that and the cult was the big cause of the Zombie rise.

Kevin's rewrite took most of that out. left it as a 'possible reason for t he rise" but made the 'setting' be more generic, so your storyteller or gm could make it what ever he wanted it to be. Plague, Unknown. Military, ect. what ever.

Which I very much prefer.

Which was not was pitched, previewed, and championed by the publisher till the tail end. If he had ever said he wanted a Palladium version of "All Flesh Must Be Eaten" I would have walked away from the project.

This is quite right (( as I remember it)) Kevin was all wet in the pants about DR and how the original writers did it/where doing it. He hyped that thing like Craaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaazy, and Hyped it ___AS___ They were writing it. The way they were doing it. I clearly remember at the time going "Well I'll cut out the alien intelligence/cult crap and use it as a Zombie setting" and being a bit iffy about it. Then. POOF!! Total change of direction and the writers got shafted a good bit.

There was alot of stink made about it though. Some feathers were ruffled and the 'way' it was done was kinda.... not nice? It could have been handled better I guess. Basically the game was hyped as "Awesome sauce Awesome sauce Awesome sauce!.... Oh wait.... this is dumb I'm gonna re-write 75% of it, take the original writer's names off the book and put them in as contributors. Here. Now it's Awesome!" and that bent alot of people the wrong way. They demanded the original setting and work and to give Palladium credit, they put it out in a Rifter as an optional thing. SO people that wanted it could get the information. But yeah.... it wasn't handled that well in the process to get from A to Zed.

Look I am going to say this for the VERY FIRST TIME in public. the way it was handled was wrong.

And even if you have all the books and both Rifter's you get maybe MAYBE 25% of what was written. And yes I blame the way Palladium does things.

I'd like to see the rest of the stuff as written. I like information and the 'ability' to cherry pick it for what I want. We were lead to believe that the stuff in the rifter was the stuff cut from the "Original" DR Setting. You're saying that there's 75% more that's still missing?

[azazel1024]

I think the direct it took was to generalize it as said. Make it "do whatever you want, but here is the sandbox, you decide on the borders, or and what most of the sand is as well".

I sort of like that. The only issue I see is there isn't much more to the setting unless you actual add some kind of real plot or potential plot elements to the setting. I can certainly think of some things you can discuss, such as surviving in a city. Maybe surviving on the water (something I'd really like to see, boats, marinas, fishing, living on the water, etc). Not much other than that you can really do unless you want to inject real setting/plot.

Example once you talk about that stuff you are going to have to start talking places, such as what shape are specific cities in. Maybe talk about specific safe haven communities. Hey maybe throw in safe haven construction rules. Maybe even some plot elements like some possible adventures to discover the source of the zombies, someone creating super zombies or something simiar (maybe a cure??? Maybe it just prevents you from becoming a zombie when you die, no more new zombies created! Its not much, but its something).

I am really intrigued by the original write of it, but I am sure no one is going to see it other than the original writers and where it was burned, I mean, stored at PB's offices.
-Matt

[Pepsi Jedi]

The 4th book, or 'third sourcebook' that was alluded to in the 3rd book indicated the next would have information on citys and safehavens, with information about people living in citys 'Above ground level' like they went up 5 floors and blocked off the buildings and make rope bridges between buildings and stuff and are gardening on the roofs and stuff. I'm interested in that.

[Pepsi Jedi]

This is quite right (( as I remember it)) Kevin was all wet in the pants about DR and how the original writers did it/where doing it. He hyped that thing like Craaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaazy, and Hyped it ___AS___ They were writing it. The way they were doing it. I clearly remember at the time going "Well I'll cut out the alien intelligence/cult crap and use it as a Zombie setting" and being a bit iffy about it. Then. POOF!! Total change of direction and the writers got shafted a good bit.

First I am the creator and co-writer of the original book. Second he had the manuscript in January of 2008 and continually hyped it WHILE HE HAD IT. Third he was on board with the DEMON aspect from the beginning.

I'd like to see the rest of the stuff as written. I like information and the 'ability' to cherry pick it for what I want. We were lead to believe that the stuff in the rifter was the stuff cut from the "Original" DR Setting. You're saying that there's 75% more that's still missing?

yes

Yeah, that's what I was saying. For months he hyped it as it was originally. Then out of the blue trashed half of it, re-wrote it and put his name on the cover as the writer, thus came the big fuss at the time.

[dmart11]

Good to see the writers contributing to the thread. As stated, the books in my opinion aren't bad. Fact is, it's not that the DR product is lacking anything, it's just DR is over filled for the genre it's presented in. For example, I like splicers and system failure , the content any seem limited but it's JUST the right amount for being a stand alone book. Rifts on the other hand, you could NEVER have enough content. Rifts is an animal you could never fill because it makes the genre it's in so open source. DR in my opinion is one of those splicer/recon/system failure games in terms of content quantity, one book does it all.

That said, I'm not going to disregard or dismiss DR, because I respect it's place in the megaverse and plan to incorporate it into my games as a stop over dimension every now and then. I've already written up a sick and sadistic bastard high lord that plans on dropping slaves at random into that world. Or if I really wanted to turn that world upside down, I could make the great machine use it as a new trash dump dimension. Imagine having to fight your way through not only zombies but miles and mountains of trash! A true crapsack world!!!

[Silveressa]

Imagine having to fight your way through not only zombies but miles and mountains of trash! A true crapsack world!!!

Every heard of H.O.L.E (Human Occupied Landfill of Earth) Its nearly the same premise of the earth as a giant garbage dump from some alien intelligence and the survivors struggling to scrape out a living in its toxic, mutant and monster filled landscape. The setting was pretty awesome, but the game itself appalling in its presentation. (It was entirely hand written in **** poor cursive in white text on a black background making it a pain to impossible to read.) The games out of print unfortunately, but I do know where people can get a .pdf of it. If anyone's interested send me a pm.

[MaxxSterling]

Warning: User warned for trolling. - NMI

[MaxxSterling]

Didn't they already try to make something like that called the gamemaster's guide? Man, that booked sucked. It was like all the rules you're used to, but then different and askew. And different in such a manner as to ask, is this book even for the same gaming system? And then ultimately just ripping out the rules for the Modern W.P. +'s and using the rest of the book as a doorstop to my gaming room. Ultimately, I think this is where Rifts/Palladium starts to fall on its face and GURPS gets to the finish line first. I love this game, but I think too much freelance stuff with not enough policing/editing pulls it too many directions. The question is, is it too late to fix? Just my thoughts...

[jaymz]

Didn't they already try to make something like that called the gamemaster's guide?

That was a hand book for Rifts not a core rules book.

I think too much freelance stuff with not enough policing/editing pulls it too many directions.

Really?

You blame the Freelance Writers?

Wow ... you have no idea what you are talking about.

I am pretty sure everyone else is just ingoring his drivel CL.

As for DR. I like some of what I saw, but I am admit I am not the biggest Zombie fan out there. I atually woudl have preferred the original incarnation, at least form what I have seen of it. Zombiess for the samke of Zombies is just not somehtingi can see as being a mroe than 2 or 3 session game at most, but something that actually has a reason or some sort of underlying force behind t CAN be a lenghty campaign ala the TV Show Supernatural dealing with Lucifer or the Yellow Eye demon.