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If the X-5001 Devastator Mk II is the biggest and baddest weapon system the NGR has, Why does the X-700 Fat Boy have a weapon that does more damage then the Mk II? One would think that the NGR would give there heavy hitter the biggest and baddest weapon system. I know that the Boom gun is for the Glitter boy but if they converted the weapon for the Fat boy why wouldn't they also convert it for the X-5001?

It's mainly because Rifts does not have a clear cut creation process or a standerized weapons table when creating new weapons/PA/Robots.

I'm sure the authors put some thought into the damages to compensate for that, but they are also at the mercy of having their material getting edited.

If you think this is bad take a look at Coalition War campaign! They got skycycles with weapons as powerful as the Boom Gun on a Glitterboy, yet have armored vehicles and tanks that have weapons only half as powerful per burst or shot.

Just think about this for a moment: a C-42 railgun cluster system designed to work on the Coalition Warbird Rocketcycle does more damage than the main cannons on the CTX-50 heavy assault tank.

TheGrayRaven wrote:

Colt47 wrote:If you think this is bad take a look at Coalition War campaign! They got skycycles with weapons as powerful as the Boom Gun on a Glitterboy, yet have armored vehicles and tanks that have weapons only half as powerful per burst or shot.

Just think about this for a moment: a C-42 railgun cluster system designed to work on the Coalition Warbird Rocketcycle does more damage than the main cannons on the CTX-50 heavy assault tank.

That warbird is a little cheaper too, I imagine.

Yeah only a little... They must have a clone of Dr. Insano as their science director.

Ah!! Heavy weapons and cheap prices I love it. Wait what the ****? Why are we building all of this heavy equipment and not getting our moneys worth out of it? Your telling me that we can make cheaper equipment that does more damage then the hi priced stuff? Who Ok this? You did sir! Thats big goverment for you.

Unfortunatly when it comes to all things Military, Palladium does have a well deserved reputation as being clueless.

Yes, well considering the CS mostly use Blitz Kreigg tactics, which were developed to work against trench warfare that was born in World War I, we could say they are behind on the times. Just run an actual miniatures game with the tactics the CS are using against something like Tolkien and you will see that even if they won, it would not have been without exceptionally heavy losses.

Colt47 wrote:Yes, well considering the CS mostly use Blitz Kreigg tactics, which were developed to work against trench warfare that was born in World War I, we could say they are behind on the times. Just run an actual miniatures game with the tactics the CS are using against something like Tolkien and you will see that even if they won, it would not have been without exceptionally heavy losses.

That I have, the only reason I won, was due to the fact that I was using Khornate Berserkers and a Bloodthirster

(Warhammer 40K)

When you consider the amount of Military knowledge available right here on the boards, from both Military enthusiasts and actual military personel, you would think PB could come up with better, gear ? ideas ? tactics ?the whole lot, rather than some of the very badly thought out ideas they have done.

Rimmer wrote:

Colt47 wrote:Yes, well considering the CS mostly use Blitz Kreigg tactics, which were developed to work against trench warfare that was born in World War I, we could say they are behind on the times. Just run an actual miniatures game with the tactics the CS are using against something like Tolkien and you will see that even if they won, it would not have been without exceptionally heavy losses.

That I have, the only reason I won, was due to the fact that I was using Khornate Berserkers and a Bloodthirster

(Warhammer 40K)

When you consider the amount of Military knowledge available right here on the boards, from both Military enthusiasts and actual military personel, you would think PB could come up with better, gear ? ideas ? tactics ?the whole lot, rather than some of the very badly thought out ideas they have done.

Rifts in particular tends to have a lot of shady game mechanics, odd design choices, strange MDC and weapon damage values, etc. The vastly under rated SDC settings seem to have struck a better balance.

It always did strike me as odd, that KS would explain away some of the odd choices he has made in regards to say, weapon damage (Devestater anyone ) as being for game balance purposes.

GAME BALANCE PURPOSES !!!!!! ?????????????????????????????????

This from the guy that gives you Vagabonds and Glitter boys etc, and who professess to dislike the idea of all classes being equal.

On this same notion...

Why are rail guns so feared?

Is it that they have blood loss?
Sound so nasty?

Damage-wise and limited ammo for these rail-guns make them far inferior to most Power Armor based energy weapons. Plus, the power armors usually have unlimited shots with them.

Colt47 wrote:Rifts in particular tends to have a lot of shady game mechanics, odd design choices, strange MDC and weapon damage values, etc. The vastly under rated SDC settings seem to have struck a better balance.

Only because a lot less has been done with them. If Nightbane or HU had dozens of books of made-up weapons and vehicles, they'd probably have the same problem with wildly inconsistent stats that Rifts does, because they suffer from the same problem of not having any official game balance built into the system.

And even without that, there's already some serious game balance problems. Run a Nightbane party where you've got a 'bane, a wampyre, a Sword Bearer, and a human sorcerer, and see what happens the first time you try and give the group a challenging bunch of monsters to fight. Or run an HU game where the dude who's got APS Metal and the dude who rolled up a Stage Magician both get an equal share of the limelight.

stankind wrote:On this same notion...

Why are rail guns so feared?

Is it that they have blood loss?
Sound so nasty?

Damage-wise and limited ammo for these rail-guns make them far inferior to most Power Armor based energy weapons. Plus, the power armors usually have unlimited shots with them.

Railguns are the best technological weapon type in the game if a player can get the strength to use one. Hard ammo weapons that do MD are rare and spell casting enemies have a harder time dealing with hard ammo then energy. Also, hard ammo weapons generally can use different munition types for different situations, such as vampires. To date, the only thing resistant to kinetic attacks seems to be mercenaries wearing that new Northern Gun A12 anti ballistic EBA and the newest Naruni armor, which also happens to be resistant to just about everything.

The problem is that most of the conventional railguns cap out at around 6d6 or 1d4x10 MD for damage. The ones that do more damage are heavy weight guns that could only be used by either supernatural strength critters, the heaviest borgs, and of course Power Armor and Robots. If a railgun is too heavy for a character, the next best thing is a modified shotgun that can handle the Juicer Uprising ammo types.

The most common Railgun options for adventurers in North America that can be used by strong characters are the Triax Borg Railgun and the NG-303 infantry Railgun. Just be mindful that there is a very annoying typo under the payload entry for the NG-303 that states an energy clip has enough power for 40 rounds. It's supposed to be bursts.

The next best option for tech weapons would be Particle beams, followed closely by ion weapons, with lasers and plasma weapons on the lower end. Plasma is probably the worst of the grouping, since it counts as a fire based attack and there are plenty of ways to deal with fire based attacks. Lasers are almost as good as P-beam and Ion and would be superior if it wasn't for the chromium weakness.

Edit: My weapons assessment is somewhat biased since the game involving my Mystic knight was in the Magic Zone. The NGR probably doesn't have as much of an issue with anti tech magic, so they have little reason not to trust lasers and other energy based weapon systems.

Colt47 wrote:Railguns are the best technological weapon type in the game if a player can get the strength to use one. Hard ammo weapons that do MD are rare and spell casting enemies have a harder time dealing with hard ammo then energy. Also, hard ammo weapons generally can use different munition types for different situations, such as vampires. To date, the only thing resistant to kinetic attacks seems to be mercenaries wearing that new Northern Gun A12 anti ballistic EBA and the newest Naruni armor, which also happens to be resistant to just about everything.

The problem is that most of the conventional railguns cap out at around 6d6 or 1d4x10 MD for damage. The ones that do more damage are heavy weight guns that could only be used by either supernatural strength critters, the heaviest borgs, and of course Power Armor and Robots. If a railgun is too heavy for a character, the next best thing is a modified shotgun that can handle the Juicer Uprising ammo types.

The most common Railgun options for adventurers in North America that can be used by strong characters are the Triax Borg Railgun and the NG-303 infantry Railgun. Just be mindful that there is a very annoying typo under the payload entry for the NG-303 that states an energy clip has enough power for 40 rounds. It's supposed to be bursts.

The next best option for tech weapons would be Particle beams, followed closely by ion weapons, with lasers and plasma weapons on the lower end. Plasma is probably the worst of the grouping, since it counts as a fire based attack and there are plenty of ways to deal with fire based attacks. Lasers are almost as good as P-beam and Ion and would be superior if it wasn't for the chromium weakness.

Edit: My weapons assessment is somewhat biased since the game involving my Mystic knight was in the Magic Zone. The NGR probably doesn't have as much of an issue with anti tech magic, so they have little reason not to trust lasers and other energy based weapon systems.

Thank you Colt47. I guess I never gave that a thought.
I guess being a newbie to the Rifts-side of Palladium, I over-looked that.

You usually don't worry about that too much in Nightbane and HU2.
Unless, of course, there are specific resistances to such energy weapons.

stankind wrote:

Colt47 wrote:Railguns are the best technological weapon type in the game if a player can get the strength to use one. Hard ammo weapons that do MD are rare and spell casting enemies have a harder time dealing with hard ammo then energy. Also, hard ammo weapons generally can use different munition types for different situations, such as vampires. To date, the only thing resistant to kinetic attacks seems to be mercenaries wearing that new Northern Gun A12 anti ballistic EBA and the newest Naruni armor, which also happens to be resistant to just about everything.

The problem is that most of the conventional railguns cap out at around 6d6 or 1d4x10 MD for damage. The ones that do more damage are heavy weight guns that could only be used by either supernatural strength critters, the heaviest borgs, and of course Power Armor and Robots. If a railgun is too heavy for a character, the next best thing is a modified shotgun that can handle the Juicer Uprising ammo types.

The most common Railgun options for adventurers in North America that can be used by strong characters are the Triax Borg Railgun and the NG-303 infantry Railgun. Just be mindful that there is a very annoying typo under the payload entry for the NG-303 that states an energy clip has enough power for 40 rounds. It's supposed to be bursts.

The next best option for tech weapons would be Particle beams, followed closely by ion weapons, with lasers and plasma weapons on the lower end. Plasma is probably the worst of the grouping, since it counts as a fire based attack and there are plenty of ways to deal with fire based attacks. Lasers are almost as good as P-beam and Ion and would be superior if it wasn't for the chromium weakness.

Edit: My weapons assessment is somewhat biased since the game involving my Mystic knight was in the Magic Zone. The NGR probably doesn't have as much of an issue with anti tech magic, so they have little reason not to trust lasers and other energy based weapon systems.

Thank you Colt47. I guess I never gave that a thought.
I guess being a newbie to the Rifts-side of Palladium, I over-looked that.

You usually don't worry about that too much in Nightbane and HU2.
Unless, of course, there are specific resistances to such energy weapons.

I'm not as familiar with HU2 and Nightbane as I am with Rifts. All I know is that in Rifts Nightbane are exceptionally over powered critters. Heck, they can go toe to toe with Palladiums flavor of vampires and win, which is something that most characters in the setting aren't capable of without added abilities or equipment. Probably getting a bit off topic here with this comment though.

stankind wrote:On this same notion...

Why are rail guns so feared?

Is it that they have blood loss?
Sound so nasty?

Damage-wise and limited ammo for these rail-guns make them far inferior to most Power Armor based energy weapons. Plus, the power armors usually have unlimited shots with them.

My group has long played that rail does impact damage like explosions, so the squishy inside takes SDC along with the armor taking MDC (assuming no force fields).

C. Chopps

Dustin Fireblade wrote:It's mainly because Rifts does not have a clear cut creation process or a standerized weapons table when creating new weapons/PA/Robots.

I'm sure the authors put some thought into the damages to compensate for that, but they are also at the mercy of having their material getting edited.

Thank you for understanding.