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Howdy, folks.
What would be the standard loadout for various CS unit types (I.E. Straight Leg Infantry, Mechanized Infantry, Commandoes, etc) for routine patrols in hostile areas? Who would carry what too? In other words, you have various positions inside the squad (squad leader, medic, radio operator, heavy weapons operator) what would you have at the squad level and what would each guy carry?
Thanks.

That information can be found in the Rifts Sourcebook 1 (I know for a fact it's in the original, but not to sure if it's in the revised edition).

Well is there anything additional taking on stuff from after the 80's that you have added?

The only other thing that I can think of is to look in the CWC for ideas. I don't think that they updated the Squads or what type of PA's or Robot Vehicles to include, or what equipment a standard group carries, but look through there and try to extrapolate.

Aaryq wrote:Well is there anything additional taking on stuff from after the 80's that you have added?

After the 80s?

To be honest I find the standard CS armaments given to infantry units insufficient to deal with magic based threats and experience seems to prove it. The exceptional prevalence of impervious to energy and Armor of Ithan tends to limit the viability of energy weapons by quite a large margin. Post Tolkien conflict the CS grunt should almost always have a pump weapon, a laser rifle for common conflicts, and should stick mostly to the Fragmentation grenades. If the CS grunts are on patrol in areas close to known vampire territory, they should be trained in how to use at least one kind of SDC firearm with a couple of magazines worth of silver rounds.

Like anything written by Palladium books the military plausibility/feasibility is sorely lacking.

Organic TOEs which include power armor (SAMAS) with infantry at the squad level is logistical insanity.

Technical Officers OCCs serving in what amount to RTO enlisted comm billets.

For my own games I keep squads broken up into what I understand. The "tripod" TOE first used by the Germans in WWII IIRC.

1 Higher HQ element supported by 3 line elements. At the Battalion level you add a weapons company.

Colt47 wrote:To be honest I find the standard CS armaments given to infantry units insufficient to deal with magic based threats and experience seems to prove it. The exceptional prevalence of impervious to energy and Armor of Ithan tends to limit the viability of energy weapons by quite a large margin. Post Tolkien conflict the CS grunt should almost always have a pump weapon, a laser rifle for common conflicts, and should stick mostly to the Fragmentation grenades. If the CS grunts are on patrol in areas close to known vampire territory, they should be trained in how to use at least one kind of SDC firearm with a couple of magazines worth of silver rounds.

A M203 clone underbarrel GL would be a easy solution.

Organic TOEs which include power armor (SAMAS) with infantry at the squad level is logistical insanity.

What are TOE's (not the body part).

dragonfett wrote:

Organic TOEs which include power armor (SAMAS) with infantry at the squad level is logistical insanity.

What are TOE's (not the body part).

Table of Organization and Equipment

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_O ... _Equipment

Wooly wrote:Technical Officers OCCs serving in what amount to RTO enlisted comm billets.

The Technical Officer OCC starts as a Corporal (RMB p55, CWC p52, and RUE p236). They are like CS Grunts, who start off enlisted and might work up to being an Officer.

Depends heavily on the time frame: Pre 105 PA and Post 105 PA (the introduction of the new weapons, armor, vehicles, and robots).

And I assume you mean a standard rifle/infantry squad: Sourcebook One gives us our best look at a standard 8 man infantry squad (Short Range Reconnaissance Squad):

4 Light infantry soldiers (Grunts): CA-2 Dead Boy body armor, C-12 laser rifle, C-18 laser pistol, S.D.C. submachinegun, vibro-knife, and two fragmentation hand grenades.
2 Heavy infantry soldiers (Grunts): CA-1 heavy body armor, armed with C-14 Fire Breather assault rifle or C-27 plasma cannon, two fragmentation hand grenades. Plus the two-man
team operates a CR-1 Rocket launcher (one soldier carries 2D4 mini-missiles, the other carries the CR-1).
1 Military specialist (espionage training and squad leader): CA-2 body armor, vibro-blade of choice, CV-212 variable laser rifle or C-12 heavy laser rifle, C-18 laser pistol, S.D.C. automatic weapon of choice, and three plasma grenades. May wear SAMAS power armor or jet pack (40% chance).
1 Technical officer (communications): Long range radio, radar, and portable computer. Same arms and armor as light infantry.
Note: Travel on foot; no vehicle. Stealth and defensive maneuvers are required. Thus two to four Dog Pack soldiers may be substituted for two light or heavy infantry soldiers.


4 Light infantry soldiers (Grunts): CA-4 Dead Boy body armor, CP-40 pulse laser rifle, C-20 laser pistol, S.D.C. submachinegun, vibro-knife, and two fragmentation hand grenades.
2 Heavy infantry soldiers (Grunts): CA-4 heavy body armor, armed with CP-50 "Dragonfire" assault rifle or C-29 "Hellfire" plasma cannon, two fragmentation hand grenades. Plus the two-man team operates a CR-1 Rocket launcher (one soldier carries 2D4 mini-missiles, the other carries the CR-1).
1 Military specialist (espionage training and squad leader): CA-6EX body armor, vibro-blade of choice, CV-212 variable laser rifle or CP-50 "Dragonfire" assault rifle, CP-30 laser pistol, S.D.C. automatic weapon of choice, and three plasma grenades. May wear Terror Trooper or "Smiling Jack" SAMAS power armor or jet pack (40% chance). If so, they will be armed with the heavier CTT-M20 missile rifle or CTT-P40 rifle instead of the CV-212 or Dragonfire.
1 Technical officer (communications): Long range radio, radar, and portable computer. Same arms and armor as light infantry.
Note: Travel on foot; no vehicle. Stealth and defensive maneuvers are required. Thus two to four Dog Pack soldiers may be substituted for two light or heavy infantry soldiers.

------------------------

Now all of that said, there are more than a few of us who disagree with the 8 man squad concept, but it is canon. Were I to base it off of the 9 man squad (the US Army ideal) then it would go like this: A 13 man squad (the marine model) would simply add a third fireteam.

--Squad Leader (Pre-105 PA): Heavy infantry soldier (Grunt NCO): CA-1 heavy body armor, armed with C-14 Fire Breather assault rifle or C-27 plasma cannon, two fragmentation hand grenades. May wear SAMAS power armor or jet pack (40% chance).

-Team Leader: Light infantry soldier (Grunt): CA-2 Dead Boy body armor, C-12 laser rifle, C-18 laser pistol, S.D.C. submachinegun, vibro-knife, and two fragmentation hand grenades.
-Heavy Weapons Gunner: Heavy infantry soldier (Grunts): CA-1 heavy body armor, armed with C-27 plasma cannon, two fragmentation hand grenades. Plus carries a CR-1 Rocket launcher. The Rifleman carries the mini-missile ammunition.
-Grenadier: Heavy infantry soldier (Grunt): CA-1 heavy body armor, armed with C-14 Fire Breather assault rifle or C-27 plasma cannon, two fragmentation hand grenades.
-Rifleman: Light infantry soldier (Grunt): CA-2 Dead Boy body armor, C-12 laser rifle, C-18 laser pistol, S.D.C. submachinegun, vibro-knife, and two fragmentation hand grenades. Also carries 6 Mini-missiles in a backpack for the CR-1.

-Team Leader: Light infantry soldier (Grunt): CA-2 Dead Boy body armor, C-12 laser rifle, C-18 laser pistol, S.D.C. submachinegun, vibro-knife, and two fragmentation hand grenades.
-Heavy Weapons Gunner: Heavy infantry soldier (Grunt): CA-1 heavy body armor, armed with C-27 plasma cannon, two fragmentation hand grenades. Plus carries a CR-1 Rocket launcher. The Rifleman carries the mini-missile ammunition.
-Grenadier: Heavy infantry soldier (Grunt): CA-1 heavy body armor, armed with C-14 Fire Breather assault rifle or C-27 plasma cannon, two fragmentation hand grenades.
-Rifleman: Light infantry soldier (Grunt): CA-2 Dead Boy body armor, C-12 laser rifle, C-18 laser pistol, S.D.C. submachinegun, vibro-knife, and two fragmentation hand grenades. Also carries 6 Mini-missiles in a backpack for the CR-1.


--Squad Leader (Post 105 PA): Heavy infantry soldier (Grunt): CA-4 heavy body armor, armed with CP-50 "Dragonfire" assault rifle or C-29 "Hellfire" plasma cannon, two fragmentation hand grenades. May wear Terror Trooper or "Smiling Jack" SAMAS power armor or jet pack (40% chance). If so, they will be armed with the heavier CTT-M20 missile rifle or CTT-P40 rifle instead of the CV-212 or Dragonfire.

-Team Leader: Light infantry soldier (Grunt): CA-2 Dead Boy body armor, C-12 laser rifle, C-18 laser pistol, S.D.C. submachinegun, vibro-knife, and two fragmentation hand grenades. Will also carry a higher quality field radio, possibly a light backpack unit.
-Heavy Weapons Gunner: Heavy infantry soldier (Grunt): CA-4 heavy body armor, armed with CP-50 "Dragonfire" assault rifle or C-29 "Hellfire" plasma cannon, two fragmentation hand grenades. Plus carries a CR-1 Rocket launcher. The Rifleman carries the mini-missile ammunition.
-Grenadier: Heavy infantry soldier (Grunt): CA-4 heavy body armor, armed with CP-50 "Dragonfire" assault rifle or C-29 "Hellfire" plasma cannon, two fragmentation hand grenades.
-Rifleman: Light infantry soldier (Grunt): CA-4 Dead Boy body armor, CP-40 pulse laser rifle, C-20 laser pistol, S.D.C. submachinegun, vibro-knife, and two fragmentation hand grenades. Also carries 6 Mini-missiles in a backpack for the CR-1.

-Team Leader: Light infantry soldier (Grunt): CA-2 Dead Boy body armor, C-12 laser rifle, C-18 laser pistol, S.D.C. submachinegun, vibro-knife, and two fragmentation hand grenades. Will also carry a higher quality field radio, possibly a light backpack unit.
-Heavy Weapons Gunner: Heavy infantry soldier (Grunt): CA-4 heavy body armor, armed with CP-50 "Dragonfire" assault rifle or C-29 "Hellfire" plasma cannon, two fragmentation hand grenades. Plus carries a CR-1 Rocket launcher. The Rifleman carries the mini-missile ammunition.
-Grenadier: Heavy infantry soldier (Grunt): CA-4 heavy body armor, armed with CP-50 "Dragonfire" assault rifle or C-29 "Hellfire" plasma cannon, two fragmentation hand grenades.
-Rifleman: Light infantry soldier (Grunt): CA-4 Dead Boy body armor, CP-40 pulse laser rifle, C-20 laser pistol, S.D.C. submachinegun, vibro-knife, and two fragmentation hand grenades.. Also carries 6 Mini-missiles in a backpack for the CR-1.

----------

Now I will say that a lot of the 9 man and 13 man squad is based on my rewrite of the CS OCCs, which is MOS based, not solely OCC based.

Mack wrote:

Wooly wrote:Technical Officers OCCs serving in what amount to RTO enlisted comm billets.

The Technical Officer OCC starts as a Corporal (RMB p55, CWC p52, and RUE p236). They are like CS Grunts, who start off enlisted and might work up to being an Officer.

One of the things I did when I redid the CS OCCs with MOSs was to include a Commo and Medic MOS for grunts. As is there are more tech "officers" in the CS army than their overall education level would support - no way 1 in 8 people in the CS Army are fully and highly trained literate techs. However, you could easily teach parts of that to grunts in a very focused and specialized course. May take longer than the average grunt, but its easier than having full out commo techs in every squad. But yes, Tech Specialists (as I renamed them) can be most any rank.

Aaryq wrote:Howdy, folks.
What would be the standard loadout for various CS unit types (I.E. Straight Leg Infantry, Mechanized Infantry, Commandoes, etc) for routine patrols in hostile areas? Who would carry what too? In other words, you have various positions inside the squad (squad leader, medic, radio operator, heavy weapons operator) what would you have at the squad level and what would each guy carry?
Thanks.

Well, it just so happens that I wrote a fairly extensive article on this a bit back, and then updated it a few times. It's a MS word doc, (which isn't an issue 99% of the time, but there are those Open Office and strictly Mac people), so give it a few seconds to fully download when you open it.

http://www.nexusnine.net/downloads/artc ... eorder.doc

The only thing that needs to be fixed is when I originally wrote it, I thought TO&E stood for Tactical Order & Equipment, instead of the correct Table of Organization & Equipment... m'eh, potato po-tat-oh.

Yeah I always liked your stuff, but couldn't use it because it was based on post 105 equipment which didn't go back easily (close isn't the same). I had similar issues returning Navy Equipment to Pre-105 standards. The standard SAMAS is just NOT a Sea SAMAS.

What I'm talking about is kit aside from weapons and armour. 550 Cord, Radios, Ruck Sacks (does the CS have a standard ruck?), batteries, chow (anyone care to describe what a CS MRE would be?) individual 1st aid kits, extra socks, how many air filters, etc. All that extra kit that you don't think about that the poor grunt has to carry. As the good Colonel said with regards to how much kit you have to carry, Light infantry isn't light.

I guess it would really depend on how far from base they are going.

Minimal gear if they have "guaranteed" quick transport back to base, maybe some wilderness survival items depending on how heavy/bulky the items are.

Further from base, obviously they would be carrying a lot more.

Aaryq wrote:What I'm talking about is kit aside from weapons and armour. 550 Cord, Radios, Ruck Sacks (does the CS have a standard ruck?), batteries, chow (anyone care to describe what a CS MRE would be?) individual 1st aid kits, extra socks, how many air filters, etc. All that extra kit that you don't think about that the poor grunt has to carry. As the good Colonel said with regards to how much kit you have to carry, Light infantry isn't light.

There's a rifter article on CS Food services (( and cooking in Rifts in general))

Really great article, but deplorable art for it. But fun ideas. MD stoves to cook MD food and render it edible for SDC Beings, and the like. Seems CS chefs like to make Xictixt food lol but it also covers mobile kitchens and stuff. Great stuff.

Aaryq wrote:What I'm talking about is kit aside from weapons and armour. 550 Cord, Radios, Ruck Sacks (does the CS have a standard ruck?), batteries, chow (anyone care to describe what a CS MRE would be?) individual 1st aid kits, extra socks, how many air filters, etc. All that extra kit that you don't think about that the poor grunt has to carry. As the good Colonel said with regards to how much kit you have to carry, Light infantry isn't light.

It's kinda glossed over a bit, but Palladium does list some of these items. Apparently all CS Grunt's get signal flares,survival knife, an air filter/gas mask, walkie-talkie and some other odds and ends. This is one of the things I really liked about the old-style armor - they had a lot of varied containers to carry stuff in.

Dustin Fireblade wrote:

Aaryq wrote:What I'm talking about is kit aside from weapons and armour. 550 Cord, Radios, Ruck Sacks (does the CS have a standard ruck?), batteries, chow (anyone care to describe what a CS MRE would be?) individual 1st aid kits, extra socks, how many air filters, etc. All that extra kit that you don't think about that the poor grunt has to carry. As the good Colonel said with regards to how much kit you have to carry, Light infantry isn't light.

It's kinda glossed over a bit, but Palladium does list some of these items. Apparently all CS Grunt's get signal flares,survival knife, an air filter/gas mask, walkie-talkie and some other odds and ends. This is one of the things I really liked about the old-style armor - they had a lot of varied containers to carry stuff in.

The redesign of the armor was probably unnecessary. The only part of the suit that needed a significant over haul was the face plate, as it obviously limited the soldiers visibility. The newer helmets have one way polarized face shields that allow the soldier to see a heck lot more. The only thing the armor needed was an update in the construction techniques to a Triax equivalent.

Yeah somewhere I have notes for my version of CS EBA. Much more advanced with more optics, sensors, improved combat computer, food/water supply and a integrated "buttpack" to carry a few odds and ends.

Aaryq wrote:What I'm talking about is kit aside from weapons and armour. 550 Cord, Radios, Ruck Sacks (does the CS have a standard ruck?), batteries, chow (anyone care to describe what a CS MRE would be?) individual 1st aid kits, extra socks, how many air filters, etc. All that extra kit that you don't think about that the poor grunt has to carry. As the good Colonel said with regards to how much kit you have to carry, Light infantry isn't light.

CS MRE - same as the MRE in Merc Ops page 115-116
The radios are built into their armor for normal operations.
Standard First Aid Kit is described on page 263 of RUE. I personally add one Robot Medical Kit to it for a "standard" CS First Aid Kit.

Here's what my Navy PCs get: one assigned suit of Body Armor, Standard First Aid Kit with RMK, Heavy Rain Suit, Woolen Winter Jacket, Woolen Cap, Several Pairs of Gloves, Multiblade Pocket Knife, Combat/Survival Knife, Walkie-Talkie (backup for suit radio), Personal Grooming Kit, Polarized goggles or polarized sunglasses, 3 Fatigue Uniforms (1 pair of Pants, 1 undershirt, 1 shirt, 1 pair of socks, 1 set of underwear - each), 1 Dress Uniform (1 pair of pants, 1 undershirt, 1 shirt, 1 coat, 1 pair of dress shoes, 1 pair of dress socks, 1 set of underwear), Set of PT clothes (1 pair of pants, 1 shirt, 1 pair of socks), Waterproof Combat Boots (MDC part of the leg MD on the body armor), Running Shoes, five air filters & gas mask, canteen, two medium sacks, and a large rucksack (to carry everything).

Standard gear for long term patrols is a CS-S2 (NG-S2 Survival kit rebranded), Several Pairs of Gloves, Multiblade Pocket Knife, Combat/Survival Knife, Walkie-Talkie (backup for suit radio), Personal Grooming Kit, Standard First Aid Kit with RMK, Waterproof Combat Boots (MDC part of the leg MD on the body armor), one assigned suit of Body Armor, Assigned weaponry and grenades, backpack, extra uniform, five air filters & gas mask, canteen, backpack, utility belt, shoulder or hip holster, extra ammo. A week of MREs and Meal Bars (Merc Ops page 116) is also common for foot patrols.

I like Perez view of the new Deadboy armor. It looks alot more... "lived in' Than most of the other reprensations. ANd Williams too.

Anyone notice how overpriced the MRE's arein Merc Ops?

One MRE. Not even the self heating one is 50 bucks?

A self heating (( which all the US military ones are now)) is 70 bucks each?

US troops get issued 4 per day in combat. You're telling me they'e paying $280 a day on MRE's alone? To field troops? That can't be right. Military does over spend on stuff, but like.. tanks and bombers. Not on MRE's for the troops. Those things are drastically overpriced.

Pepsi Jedi wrote:Anyone notice how overpriced the MRE's arein Merc Ops?

One MRE. Not even the self heating one is 50 bucks?

A self heating (( which all the US military ones are now)) is 70 bucks each?

US troops get issued 4 per day in combat. You're telling me they'e paying $280 a day on MRE's alone? To field troops? That can't be right. Military does over spend on stuff, but like.. tanks and bombers. Not on MRE's for the troops. Those things are drastically overpriced.

Depending on where you order it from, an MRE costs around $5 each on the commercial market.

EDIT - One thing to keep in mind is the economy in Rifts is completely out of whack. This is the same book that has a 270,000 credit Dune Buggy.

I could see it for the simple fact of how popular stockpiling the MRE's would be, how hard it would be to safely transport and distribute and all that. Actual armies and Mercenary Groups would probably get a discount for buying in bulk, if they don't have the ability to make them outright themselves.

The way I see MRE's, only the major technological superpowers like the CS and NGR actually have the facilities to make MRE's. So the actual cost to groups directly funded by the CS or NGR would only have to pay cost for them (maybe 10 credits a meal). Merc groups and others would have to turn to the black market or other sources to get them, and may end up spending more, although 50 credits may still be a bit much. I think 20-25 a piece would be about right.

Also, one other point...and anyone who has ever actually eaten an MRE will agree I think, is that once your troops taste them, they are not likely to be in high demand. At least not if there is any other alternative available. They didn't earn the nickname Meals Rejected by Everyone for nothing. I can see CS troops trading the MRE's they're issued for just about anything else. But if it's all you have, you'll eat it and be happy to have it (hunger is the best gravy, after all).

So in short, I would price the MRE's based on the availability of other alternatives. If other food sources are plentiful, then the MRE's would be cheap. If there is a drought or rampant starvation, they will be expensive.

Why do you think that every MRE came with Tabasco Sauce? There are some good ones out there, but it's been so long since I was in the Air Force that I can't even remember what ones they were. Trust me, the good ones were a HOT commodity. I love the Jalepeno Cheese that came with some of them. My wife loves the hell out of them too, especially after having nothing else to eat after Hurricane Katrina hit the Gulf Coast, but I digress. Any thing like that would be a hot commodity not because of taste, but as a emergency supply of food.

kmspade wrote:The way I see MRE's, only the major technological superpowers like the CS and NGR actually have the facilities to make MRE's. So the actual cost to groups directly funded by the CS or NGR would only have to pay cost for them (maybe 10 credits a meal). Merc groups and others would have to turn to the black market or other sources to get them, and may end up spending more, although 50 credits may still be a bit much. I think 20-25 a piece would be about right.

Also, one other point...and anyone who has ever actually eaten an MRE will agree I think, is that once your troops taste them, they are not likely to be in high demand. At least not if there is any other alternative available. They didn't earn the nickname Meals Rejected by Everyone for nothing. I can see CS troops trading the MRE's they're issued for just about anything else. But if it's all you have, you'll eat it and be happy to have it (hunger is the best gravy, after all).

So in short, I would price the MRE's based on the availability of other alternatives. If other food sources are plentiful, then the MRE's would be cheap. If there is a drought or rampant starvation, they will be expensive.

I still don't buy it. The CS is a government like others. They have farming communities that support the super cities and all, sure. Thing is. MREs don't cost 10 bucks to make. If they're more than $1 to make I'd be absolutely amazed. Governments work on contract by the lowest bidder. They are --not-- feeding their troops ten bucks worth of food 3 or 4 times a day. They're just not. You're talking about pennies a meal if that at the best of times. Rolling in production. Materials, packaging, distribution, MRE's are going to max out at a buck a piece if that. They surely aren't $50 to $70 each $50 for a platoon sized case for a week maybe.

Yes. Availability will make prices inflate. Sure. but who's going to pay the equivalent of a gourmet meal for calories in a bag that as stated, Aren't the best tasting things ever. I feed a family of 4 on $10 to $15 bucks when we're out shopping. Trying to say ONE MRE is $50 to $70 is absurd. A case of 25 or 50 for that price is more in line with reality and what a government will pay.

Pepsi Jedi wrote:
I still don't buy it. The CS is a government like others. They have farming communities that support the super cities and all, sure. Thing is. MREs don't cost 10 bucks to make. If they're more than $1 to make I'd be absolutely amazed. Governments work on contract by the lowest bidder. They are --not-- feeding their troops ten bucks worth of food 3 or 4 times a day. They're just not. You're talking about pennies a meal if that at the best of times. Rolling in production. Materials, packaging, distribution, MRE's are going to max out at a buck a piece if that. They surely aren't $50 to $70 each $50 for a platoon sized case for a week maybe.

Yes. Availability will make prices inflate. Sure. but who's going to pay the equivalent of a gourmet meal for calories in a bag that as stated, Aren't the best tasting things ever. I feed a family of 4 on $10 to $15 bucks when we're out shopping. Trying to say ONE MRE is $50 to $70 is absurd. A case of 25 or 50 for that price is more in line with reality and what a government will pay.

USA Today (The original source cited by Wikipedia wrote:
The Pentagon pays $86.98 for a case of MREs, or about $7.25 per meal, Klein said. The website for a chain of Army-Navy stories in the Washington area listed a case of 12 MREs for $96.

Of course, this is the price the govt' pays for MRE's. This is not the production cost. The actual production cost may be much lower, but that doesn't change what the gov't PAYS for them, which is a known number. But if you assume that the CS government is at least as large and poorly managed as our own, then it is reasonable to assume that about 10 credits per meal (I'm rounding) would be about what the CS govt would pay the MRE manufacturer for a MRE.

Is it worth that? Anyone who's ever eaten one will tell you no. Is it reasonable to assume that the govt pays this much for them? Yes, I think so. At it's height, the US govt spent 1.2 billion dollars a DAY on the Iraq war. Not all of that money goes to tanks and bombs.

Also, if you read up on MRE's, it states that they are designed not to be eaten for more than 3 weeks straight, as they are higher in certain vitamins and minerals, and lower in others. They are designed this way because it assumes that troops in the field will not have to ever go more than 3 weeks without a resupply of real food. I can see the same applying to a CS squad operating in the magic zone. They may be expected to live on MRE's for up to three weeks while in the magic zone (or where ever), but in three weeks time should be able to make it back to a CS base somewhere that has a chow hall (not much better than an MRE, in my opinion ) Yes, I know, my degree in Economics is showing.

Anywho...I think the bottom line is that we are essentially agreeing with each other that the MRE's in Rifts are way overpriced. Whatever each GM decides to lower the price to is their call. For me, I think about 10 credits a meal is about right, depending on external factors.

The prices that were mentioned by Pepsi Jedi on what the US Gov't. pays for a MRE reflects the shipping costs as well and the fact that they are engineered to last under rough conditions. Each recipe for an MRE as a number of things that the manufacturer needs to follow. A simple brownie, for example, has 20+ pages of instructions and requirements. Why, because it has to survive being dropped out of a perfectly good airplane, hitting the ground hard, being in -30 degree temperature or 115 degree temperatures, and still be edible after three years. As for the increased prices in the Rifts books for MREs, it's no longer as safe or easy to transport the materials to make the MRE's, so you have to pay extra just for the fact that it made it to your retailer safe and intact (if at all).

And as for the CS paying for it, no they're not. Everyone thinks of the CS as the US gov't. in the fact that they contract out to outside companies to make their stuff for them (armor, weapons, etc.), but I don't think that they do. I think that they own/run whatever factory makes their equipment because that would be the cheapest solution. They're not trying to make a profit and they know for a fact what's actually going into their equipment.

Well the CS food services have been detailed in a rifter article.(( Rifter 32)) (( I mentioned it above)) It's pretty cool. And a little tongue in cheek, but interesting. It talks about APCs refitted to be mobile field kitchens and how many meals per day they can kick out. How they feed the troops on the go and what not. The article also goes into how you make MDC food edible by SDC creatures and how MDC Food has a higher nutritional value in compairision. (( and touches just barely how MDC critters become MDC critters by eating MDC stuff.))

Still. That cost for a guy walking into a camping supply store seems astronomical.

Take a rifts mission. Lets say your group of adventurers are going to be in the field for a month. Not too long at all in rifts. Say you have 5 people in your group with no strange food needs. No DBees that only eat __ no carnivors, no vampires. just 5 human troops of different sorts. Lets put um down for 3 meals a day (( even though US states 4 per day for combat operations)).

By this formula 5 members, three meals a day, thirty days, MREs, you're spending thirty one thousand five hundred dollars to feed your party for a month. on the $70 MRE. Not three thousand.... THIRTY ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS to feed 5 people for 30 days.

Feeding one person for 30 days by this formula adds up to $6,300. Six... thousand three hundred dollars to eat for a month?

Say you go on the cheep and get the $50, the formula works out like this. 3 meals a day, 5 troops, 30 days, twenty two thousand, five hundred dollars for food alone.

Again, going on the cheep here, one person for 30 days at this rate is still spending $4,500. Fourty five hundred dollars to eat for a month? LOL


Some how I doubt in many of our adventure groups are rationing out TWENTY to THIRTY ---THOUSAND-- Dollars per month just to stay fed.

Or $4,500 to $6,300 per person per month.

That's where skills like Wilderness Survival, Hunting, Track & Trap Animals, and the sort come in to play. Have one person take down a medium to large sized game animal while another gather other things needed/useful for living off the land. If one 100 lb. deer has about 25 lbs. of edible meat (I am making wild guesses here, I have absolutely if this is any where accurate, I am just tossing that number out there because it seems reasonable to me, so if I am off by a long shot, please go easy on me), and each person in a 5 man group eat a pound of meat a day, that one deer will last them almost a full week.

I think if you're buying a month's worth of food for a small to mid sized group of people, you're going to be paying wholesale, not retail prices. I think you can easily estimate wholesale to be 50 to 65% of retail (at least for our purposes). And yes, no way the CS, or even Northern Gun and the other big nations, pay 50 credits per meal for MREs. 10 credits for packaging and shipping costs to get food to the front is reasonable.

Also, I flatly reject the idea of the CS being like the pre-civil war US Army. Despite the local forces, the CS acts more or less as a whole. Within the networked outposts, their ability to access information is as good as the modern Army's. As long as they are legit (and certain black ops teams would have issues with that, since they might have been removed from the books) they can get basic supplies, within reason, at any CS base. Specifically stuff like food and reasonable security (access to barracks, cafeterias, etc). The supply train of the CS moves at the speed of its high speed hover transports - which make sense to move large amounts of cargo from base to base - all you need is cargo movers the size of APCs, on and off inside of an hour, move on to the next stop. Have a circuit of stops with bases and outposts, and a standard on route/off route schedule and you have a well oiled supply line. One stop a day (or more for larger bases). Data (updates on status, troop movements, supply requests) would move at the same rate, so even a snafu would be cleared up on the next shipment. Of course things happen (transport gets shot down, hijacked, storms ground the flight, last base had a problem and loading of the next shipment outgoing is taking longer than expected. It would also be an easy way to move troops: have the Spider Skull Walker cradle be fitted with jump seats and storage for their gear and troops could tag along with the standard cargo shipments: makes transfers a simple affair. If you had a large number moving, you'd have a full DHT fitted with seats, but generally you wouldn't need that. It wouldn't take long to detach them and install a skull walker back into its cradle, so fitting for combat operations would be a fairly quick endeavor.

Seriously huh??? are yall blabbering about. What does this have to do with the thread?

Well I posted the loadout, and the conversation moved to MREs, cost, and supply lines. *shrugs*

spook101 wrote:

Dead Boy wrote:but there are those Open Office...people

Whats wrong with Open Office? Mine opened your article up just fine.
Great work by the way, really useful information.

Really? I've heard complaints in the past about Open Office.

Anyhoo, glad to be of help.