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Long long ago in a galixy we live in..... After watching the SC DVD and getting my hands on the RT:SC art book and game book I thought about what sort of ships would the UEEF would build, now that they only had a limited and finite amount of ProtoCulture. The following, minus the game stats, are what emurged from my immagination.


BC-385 Jamboree
With the Betrayal, the UEEF R&D section reviewed any and all its new ship plans to find any that might turn the edge against the hydonites. The review turned up a side project, from when the haydonites turned up to assist the UEEF against the Regent and his half of the Invid hoard, trying to figure out the construction the haydonite CA's. It detailed them from construction to balancing the power and what life support they would need if a human ship. The design with radical design features to a protoculture hungry UEEF, it was virtually totally nuclear powered. More to it, it is fusion powered with only a bit of protoculture used as a control medium., converting the power generated by the reactor to a usable form.
With the construction of the BC-385's, the UEEF is re-defining the class definitions. The scale of the new BC makes them rivals to the SDF class ships, for while they are a bit smaller the the SDF-3, they have more firepower, tougher and faster at the helm. To start, the construction will be using a new synth-alloy, several times stronger then the previous building materials. A three meters of it could withstand a direct hit from a nuclear warhead, with only little deformation and minor ablation. The production completion for the 1st ship, the Jamboree, is slated to be finished about two months before the total depletion of protoculture. However, with every new ship class there are delays, production flaws to work out during construction. The Engines are heat piles, modeled on the zentradiee ships' engines, but using but two of the fusion reactors output to power them during battle conditions. But the great leap forward are the maneuvering thrusters, they no longer are thrusters but are high output gravity plates that place their effects on the ship itself. Letting the ship maneuver as if a ship three quarters it size.
Having 4 spinal mounted main laser cannon and a hundred HPC-SL250 dual barreled 240-mm long range particle cannons, 100 long range missile launchers, and 250 point defense lasers of varying ranges. While this type of armament is what you might to expect on a SDF class ship, the current weapons mix is not expected to last past the first production run. After which weapons as powerful and with the range of the former zentradiee beam weapons, are expected to be developed. Figuring that the Haydonites, in the short term, upgrade their ships and weapons to match the new class's. By the time of the third production run of 50, the project managers expect to start production of a CA class of the same scale. This will leave the old SDF classes to be used as armed colony transports.
Another departure from the UEEF's tradition is the placement of the bridge and secondary bridge. They are deep in the core of the hull, so will be nai-invunerable to suicide attacks by mecha. Also, while there is a large life-support system for it's crew, and to supplement its parasite ships, there is no space for population transfers like in the SDF ships, 90% of the ship's interior is taken up by weaponry or support systems. Thus is will be one of the first pure warships of the UEEF fleet. The Jamboree is also dependent on carriers for it fighter support, so it has four docking clamps and modular docking ports similar to that of a Garfish's to connect to parasite carrier ships.
The down side to using the new fusion reactors to power the ship is the lost of hyperspace travel. The current fold drives use too much protoculture tech for them to accept power from fusion reactors. For the moment the BC's will only have the Bernard inertial-less FTL drive. This drive is about twice as massive as current fold drives, but with the deletion of the population transfer quarters there is adequate room for the drives and the hydrogen bunkerage.

Type: Jamboree

Class: Battle-cruiser

Ships Complement:
Ships Crew: 1200
Troops: one company of marines

smallcraft complement
six pinnaces

Notes:(1) depleting the MDC of the main engines will make them inoperable. If all are inoperable, the ship will continue on it's ballistic course.
(2) the ships bridge and secondary bridge is in the core of the central section of the ship.

Speed: This ship is not atmospheric capable.
Flying in Space: orbital cruising speed: Mach 4, Combat speed: Mach 7, interplanetary speed: .15 c, FTL: one light year per 2 hours.
Maximum Range: The Jamboree class has hydrogen bunkerage for 6 months of normal operations. The back up reactor has a 20 year life-span.

Statistical Data:
Length: 3937 feet ( 1200 m)
Beam: 984.25 feet ( 300 m)
Height: 1148.29 feet ( 350 m)
Weight: 7.56 million tons
Power Source: 5 GVH-AC8 fusion reactors, these power all functions of the ship, those capacitor rings are used to feed instant high power usage items like beam weapons. All the reactors have auto-crash shut-down if hit by battle damage. Back-up power is provided one GVH-BD3 sub-critical fission reactor. The back-up reactor can provide minimal power for life support and the internal lighting, and the passive sensors. ( In later production runs the design includes a ram-scoop for refueling in-route.)

Weapons Systems
1. GB-RH25 Anti-starship laser cannons. (4, 3 in forward chase armament and one in stern chase armament)
The GB-RH series laser cannons are direct descendants from the Zentradiee main laser cannon, but are drastically smaller and less power intensive then their predecessors. These lasers have a greater firing arc then the zentradiee models, with it gravtic lenses they have a 30 degree firing arc. A secondary feature is its pulse firing mode, where it fires significantly weaker beams for intercepting multiple targets.
Prim.: Anti-Capital ship
Secondary: assault

2. HPC-SL250 Dual-barreled 240-mm Long Range Particle Cannon
Uses the same Cannon as the Garfish but with only two barrels per turret.
Mounted along the flanks of the ship along with the PDLs.
note: use the RT:SC Art Book garfish artwork to reference what the turrets and barrels look like.

3. HM-6 Heavy Missile Launchers (100, 50, keel side and 50 dorsal side)
Mounted along the keel and dorsal sides of the ship.

4. Point Defense Laser type one (150)
prime: Anti-missile
2nd: anti-mecha

5. Point Defense Laser type two (100)
Prime: Anti-mecha
2nd: anti-missile

Note: Has advanced maneuvering capability so it maneuvers as if a ship three quarters it size.

Yeah....I can see the UEEF gutting most if not all of their new construction ships and creating a generation of interim kludges armed with systems they KNOW work just fine...

Don't forget about ships in mothballs. Ideally plenty of Zent Scout ships would have been used by the fledgling UEEF.

Here is a stop-gap ship design for use between the former gen. of ships of 'every ship a carrier' design to specialized 'ship's of the line' and 'dedicated carriers'.


VLH-3 Chachamaru class Hanger Ship
To fill the void the was created to fill the void in the UEEF's support classes, but few were constructed till the Betrayal. With the destruction of most of the carriers and the backlog of creating new fold drives to remove those susceptible to hydonites disrupter beams, created a delay in the building of Ikazuchi carriers. And because of this delay the UEEF chose to fill the forces void the delay created, with these bare bones carriers. From a construction standpoint, the VLH-3's were a godsend. Already developed, didn't need a fold drive and it had the hanger space to launch and recover even the new LCA-16V's. The down side is that the VLH-3 need another fold capable ships to carry it along, like the old Garfish HSTC-27's. However, this was planed to be overcome by the pairing it with a Shadow Dimensional CL, to that point it has a module docking port built right into its hull. Some other down sides are that the hull is short on personnel space so the crew and pilots and whatever troops are crammed in like sardines (the pairing with SDCL was also meant to alleviate some of the cramped spaces), and the SDCL's main turret is limited to direct frontal fire. To balance out the limitations of the ship to ship fire while mated the VLH-3 has two dual plasma beam turrets. These are the same as the SDCL's. For close in fire and point defense, it also has four of the standard PDL's placed two topside and two keelside. Standard deployment methodology would have have the VLH-3's deployed to the rear to launch their fighters and landing craft in relative safety. However, current realities dictate a more forward deployment then standard doctrine, till the delayed Ikazuchis can be finished.
Another twist to the development of the VLH-3's are that all the decks of the hanger bays have gravity plating inside and out. This gives it the ability to park mecha on virtually any deck it has space. It also makes it ideal for them to first in & last out for combat deployments. Able to consolidate the mecha from other, less combat worthy vessels then Micro-Jump into the combat area; and able to accommodate stragglers or orphans from other ships.

Type: Vehicle, Landing Hanger-3 (VLH-3)

Class: Chachamaru Hanger Ship

Ships Complement:
Ships Crew: 65
Troops:
( LCA-16V loads)
Flight crew: 66 & Marine Corps detachments: 1250
(Fighter loads: alpha's only)
Pilots (160-360); flight deck Personnel: 250; Marine Corps detachments: 250
(Fighter loads: legios)
Pilots (80-160); UEEF flight deck Personnel: 250 ; Marine Corps detachments: 250

Mecha complement
( LCA-16V loads)
LCV-16V's: 8 (max recovery 12)
Cyclones: 1300
(Fighter loads: alpha's only)
VF/A-6: 150 (standing room only)
External grab bars-200
(Fighter loads: legios)
alpha-tread combos: 80 (every deck is floor)

Notes:
*depleting the MDC of the observation deck will make it unusable.
* depleting the MDC of the main engines will make them inoperable. If all are inoperable, the ship will continue on it's ballistic course.
* the ships bridge is in the core of the central section of the ship.

Speed: This ship is not atmospheric capable.
Flying in Space: Combat speed of 1523 mph ( 2,579.1 kph) or Mach 2. Max sub-light speed of 0.20 c, matching the limit of its Garfish partner.
Maximum Range: only limited by consumables The Reflex furnace can carry enough monopole fuel for 20 years of operation. (current SOP limits fuel levels to two years of bunkerage). Is able to carry between 4 months and two years of other consumables depending on the life support loads.
Statistical Data:
Length: 1225 feet ( 373.38 m)
Beam: 585 feet ( 178.308 m)
Height: 220 feet ( 67.056 m)
Weight: 250,000 tons fully fueled and provisioned, w/o payload
Power Source: One Reflex Furnace powering four sub-capital plasma thrusters arrays. When linked to the SDCL, the power link up lessens the drain on the SDCL's Reflex Furnace by half.

Weapons Systems
1. HPC-SL250 Dual-barreled 240-mm Long Range Particle Cannon (2, keel side).
Uses the same Cannon as the Garfish but with only two barrels per turret.
Mounted on opposite ends of the dorsal side of the ship
note: use the RT:SC art book garfish artwork to reference what the turrets and barrels look like.

2. MLWS-40 Rapid Fire 40-mm Point Defense Lasers (4)
These standard point defense are placed with two on the Keel side and two dorsal side of the central hull. topside of the central hull.

Note: this ship's escape pods were omitted from the first 20 ships of the production run to speed construction times. Plans are to refit these ships as soon as practical.

These remind me of the ARMD platforms.

love it but how does it look like ?

With the construction of the BC-385's, the UEEF is re-defining the class definitions.

With the redefinition of the class sizes, so out goes the old SDF classes. The SDF classes had the short-cut to high power weapons through the use of PC. The Newer classes need some internal space for their Fusion reactors and the non-PC FTL drives. Also, the UEEF need to replace ALL their SDF class warships with non-PC warships.
******************************
The LCA-16V is the next generation of Landing craft, the Horizont V.
IT is a reverse swept tilt wing design. Capable of using a booster pack for missions requiring them.
L:78 m, H:32m, Mass: 850 tons (w/o boosters and cargo pods, Mass with Boosters: 2400 tons.
Internal passenger load: 42 with mecha for transported air crews in the under-wing pods.
Art work on page 114-115 of the RT:SC art-book, with the physical stats on page 139 of the same book.
*******************************


When looking at the flight load capabilities of the carrier I did the math about how many would fit.( not just going on a feeling about how many should fit) I also made adjustments for support machinery and having a bit of space between the craft.

Armament: the reasons for the numbers and types of armament are discussed with the standard deployment of the carriers. Also look at the numbers of PDLs the Jamboree class BC has.

If I had added the scads of missiles launchers you proposed, it would of taken over the limited internal space the ship has, turning it into parasite cruiser. Which was not what the parasite carrier was designed to be.
****************

jedi078 wrote:Don't forget about ships in mothballs. Ideally plenty of Zent Scout ships would have been used by the fledgling UEEF.

If any of the Zentradie ships were taken out of commission when their crews were micronized they were most likely drained of their PC, and sent to the breakers. Being those ships getting destroyed in the attack waves to drive the invid off the earth.
*************************

ZINO wrote:love it but how does it look like ?

It sort of looks like a cross between an ARMD and a 'White Base" carrier from Gundam.
If you have the pict of the Fan created Daedalus II ship, very much like that in shape, if not size.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

jedi078 wrote:Don't forget about ships in mothballs. Ideally plenty of Zent Scout ships would have been used by the fledgling UEEF.

If any of the Zentradie ships were taken out of commission when their crews were micronized they were most likely drained of their PC, and sent to the breakers. Being those ships getting destroyed in the attack waves to drive the invid off the earth.

It takes more then seven years to build a modern day Nimitz Class Aircraft Carrier. Constructing a space warship would be an even longer and more complex process. Yes there is the Robotech Factory captured in the Macross saga, but it would have had to be re-tooled to construct human warships and mecha. Shipyards on the moon would have existed but again you still have the time it takes to build a space warship. So you have a situation in the early 20 teens where the UEG needed a fleet (the defense of Earth, and scouting/colonization) but didn't have one. So common sense dictates that captured Zent warships would have been used. Even after the human fleet is built (ASC style warships) the Zent ships would not be thrown away. They'd still be used because a single Salan Scout ship can probably carry up to 75+ human mecha and has the firepower to take out most human vessels of the period by itself.

Fast forwarding to the Haydonite betrayal in 2044/2045...and you have a similar situation to the 20 teens. Current fleet needs to be retrofitted and a new fleet to fight the threat needs to be built. To top it off any surviving Robotech Factories (yes the Haydonites would have tired to take them out) would also have to be re-tooled.

In the interim just about anything the UEEF can get their hands on (to include capturing Haydonite warships) would be used to fight the Haydonites. This would include Zent warships, and the older ASC style ships. You might even find an Oberth or Armor platform being used. Remember that in 2044/2045 the Armor and Oberth warships are less then fifty years old they are still viable hulls, and would have been upgraded throughout the years just like the USS Nimitz has in real life.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

With the construction of the BC-385's, the UEEF is re-defining the class definitions.

With the redefinition of the class sizes, so out goes the old SDF classes. The SDF classes had the short-cut to high power weapons through the use of PC. The Newer classes need some internal space for their Fusion reactors and the non-PC FTL drives. Also, the UEEF need to replace ALL their SDF class warships with non-PC warships.
******************************
The LCA-16V is the next generation of Landing craft, the Horizont V.
IT is a reverse swept tilt wing design. Capable of using a booster pack for missions requiring them.
L:78 m, H:32m, Mass: 850 tons (w/o boosters and cargo pods, Mass with Boosters: 2400 tons.
Internal passenger load: 42 with mecha for transported air crews in the under-wing pods.
Art work on page 114-115 of the RT:SC art-book, with the physical stats on page 139 of the same book.
*******************************


When looking at the flight load capabilities of the carrier I did the math about how many would fit.( not just going on a feeling about how many should fit) I also made adjustments for support machinery and having a bit of space between the craft.

Armament: the reasons for the numbers and types of armament are discussed with the standard deployment of the carriers. Also look at the numbers of PDLs the Jamboree class BC has.

If I had added the scads of missiles launchers you proposed, it would of taken over the limited internal space the ship has, turning it into parasite cruiser. Which was not what the parasite carrier was designed to be.
****************

jedi078 wrote:Don't forget about ships in mothballs. Ideally plenty of Zent Scout ships would have been used by the fledgling UEEF.

If any of the Zentradie ships were taken out of commission when their crews were micronized they were most likely drained of their PC, and sent to the breakers. Being those ships getting destroyed in the attack waves to drive the invid off the earth.
*************************

ZINO wrote:love it but how does it look like ?

It sort of looks like a cross between an ARMD and a 'White Base" carrier from Gundam.
If you have the pict of the Fan created Daedalus II ship, very much like that in shape, if not size.

pict

" HUH ? the rest I got ,wow .......wait that a conver...... "
gun shot in the background
"silent human " you hear in the background

The reason I mentioned the numbers of PDLs that the jamboree has, is that the Jamboree was designed to mate up with the carriers for voyages in FTL flight.(the text does mention the docking of parasite ship) When they are mated up, the jamboree's PDL's also protect the carriers mated with it.
***********************
The three mecha loads was to give an idea of the operational maximums the carrier starts with. Or to say what is says on paper. The carrier still has to be some storage areas for missile reloads and spare cargo pods, and these are not in the main body of the ship.

A way to visualize the hanger bays in action would be to think of the Hanger Pods of a BattleStar from BattleStar Galactica by with all the ground crew work done in vacuum.

Yah... it is a lot awkward that way but the chahamaru carriers were intended as a stop-gap measure. Not a full up Fleet carrier. (the text mentions this)

Well yah... they would be sitting ducks if they were there alone and the enemy gets by the main attacking forces. That is why a competent Fleet Commander or CAG will use a % of the mecha to cover the carriers.

chachamaru plan view line drawing. I have a better drawing somewhere. But this was the only one on the comp.
Time for you peeps to post your own creations.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:The three mecha loads was to give an idea of the operational maximums the carrier starts with. Or to say what is says on paper. There still has to be some storage areas for missile reloads and spare cargo pods.

A way to visualize the hanger bays would be to think of the Hanger Pods of a BattleStar from BattleStar Galactica by with all the ground crew work done in vacuum. Yah... it is a lot awkward that way but the chahamaru carriers were intended as a stop-gap measure. Not a full up Fleet carrier.


The reason I mentioned the numbers of PDLs that the jamboree has, is that the Jamboree was designed to mate up with the carriers for long voyages in FTL flight. When they are mated up, the jamboree's PDL's also protect the carriers mated with it.

While yah... they would be sitting ducks if they were there alone and the enemy gets by the main attacking forces. That is why a competent Fleet Commander or CAG will use a % of the mecha to cover the carriers.


Time for you peeps to post your own creations.

I really love what you did but get artist or drawing but after that great job

Liking the ships.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
chachamaru plan view line drawing.

I LOVE IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! add more

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:chachamaru plan view line drawing. I have a better drawing somewhere. But this was the only one on the comp.
Time for you peeps to post your own creations.

It's a bit of a box car, but it gives us something to visualize with.

taalismn wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:chachamaru plan view line drawing. I have a better drawing somewhere. But this was the only one on the comp.
Time for you peeps to post your own creations.

It's a bit of a box car, but it gives us something to visualize with.

A couple box cars mounted on a frigate is a good way of saying it.

I have a few questions.
1. Why do you have so weak Fusion reactors? Compared to the Lancers (As per the RPG) yours have a less then Quarter the operational life, and that's a 30 to 40 year old design. You would think that they would have made improvements, longer fuel life, more power output, even if it was just for civilian use.
2. Why did you also get rid of the Reflex connons. They were always listed as heavy Particle cannons, the tech for them was not from the Haydonites. Even if they were limited to Flagships, Dreadnoughts, and Gunships, (like in Macross 2), they would still be used.
3. Were did all the Master space tech go. I mean they had Fusion reactors and a growing empire a Millennia before anybody even heard or FOL, much less Proto. If they didn't have Fold drives then there FTL's would be fast (Close to if not equal to the Phase World books). There Fusion tech would have small powerful reactors, if they haven't moved on to something else, like anti-mater, ext.

1: Chachamaru class: because it is a transitional design, the size of the fuel bunkerage was designed to be low because it is not expected to be in service for very long.\
jamboree: the operational life of this ship's reactor is about 20 years. It is just that the hydrogen is consumed in great quantities that it's fuel supply is limited to 6 months of full operation readiness.

2: Reflex cannon are power hogs and are dependent on robotechnology. Besides, reflex cannon like the sdf1's and the heavy particle beam cannons make the ship more structurally unsound then having to divide the ship into two booms. Even if the booms look pretty when the visuals are shown. Most of the newer UEEF ships do not have this defect in construction.

3. the jamboree class does have a FTL drive and fusion reactors.

While the following is not a post betrayal ship design it is another ship design.

Multi-Role Work Craft-13 "WartHog"

This cousin of the Horizont LCA-12T, is a utility craft designed to be deployed and operate exclusively in micro-gravity environments. Given the tasks the WartHog, named by a construction tech saying "It's ugly but gets the job done", is employed to preform it was given variable emissions sensor suite ( short- and long-range radar, Lidar, etc..) , a longer life support capability, a stronger airframe, and more powerful and controllable thrusters then it's transatmospheric cousin.

The WartHog is used in such tasks as Space Search and Rescue, construction tug, in-system recon, orbital defense corvette, a personnel shuttle, transshipment cargo shuttle, and others. with some of these tasks require the use of specialized "cargo" pods.

Ship type: Utility shuttle (non-atmospheric)
Name: "WartHog"

Ship's Complement
Flight Crew: pilot, copilot, Nav./Comm. operator, flight engineer
Passengers: (internal pressurized cabin)
--28 shirt sleeved passengers
--one shipyard crew of 12 with full augmentation suits
--a cramped max. load of 38 personnel (Life support for just 7 days 21 hours 28 min with the max load)

Mecha Complement
The M-RWC-13 has a TREAD docking port, as per the horizont standard. However, this craft is only occasionally assigned a TREAD, and only as per assignment.

Speed: from Station Keeping (hover) to up to Mach 28 w/o and cargo pods, or up to Mach 20 with cargo pods (up to 4).
Range: Can operate at full capacity from 6 months before needing a refueling of protoculture. Limited by the amount of life support.
-- Flight crew and TREAD pilot: 60 24-hr days
--Flight crew and 12 passengers 25 24-hr days

Statistical Data
Length: 200 feet
Beam: 61 feet
WingSpan: 220 feet
Height: 60 feet
Weight: 2,800 tons fully loaded w/o any cargo pods. (has two cargo pod hard points per wing. an upper and a lower.)

Power supply: one Protoculture reactor powering both the main and secondary thrusters.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:1: Chachamaru class: because it is a transitional design, the size of the fuel bunkerage was designed to be low because it is not expected to be in service for very long.\
jamboree: the operational life of this ship's reactor is about 20 years. It is just that the hydrogen is consumed in great quantities that it's fuel supply is limited to 6 months of full operation readiness.

2: Reflex cannon are power hogs and are dependent on robotechnology. Besides, reflex cannon like the sdf1's and the heavy particle beam cannons make the ship more structurally unsound then having to divide the ship into two booms. Even if the booms look pretty when the visuals are shown. Most of the newer UEEF ships do not have this defect in construction.

3. the jamboree class does have a FTL drive and fusion reactors.

1. Let me rephrase this, why does the Jamboree's primary drive only have 6 months of fuel, when the 30yr old Lancer has as 28 months of fuel. Even if it was put together fast they would use the older design, that is if Earth of somebody else (like the master) didn't design a more efficient drive.
2. Wile i agree that the Reflex cannon is a power hog, this is why I said that they could be used on large ships like Dreadnoughts, Flagships, of specialty ships like a hunter killer ship. But as for them needing the booms, well I point the the masters flagship and the fact that it can fire its reflex cannon without the booms, or barrels, and can fire in any direction along the hull.
3.I just think that your FTL is slower, then say Phase world's FTL, And with the masters having FTL's for as long as they did before Fold drives they would have created drives as fast as Phase world, witch the REF would have access to.
4. As for the hole Robotechnology thing well, that is the big Quagmire. Because every bit of tech that was reversed engineered. or enhanced from the tech that was on the SDF-1 is robotechnology. That would include ALL space tech, ALL computer tech, ALL engineering tech, EXT, EXT. And if all that robotechnology is now useless, well we are in deep deep trouble, and left with only the tech we have now in the real world.

rem1093 wrote: 1. Let me rephrase this, why does the Jamboree's primary drive only have 6 months of fuel, when the 30 yr. old Lancer has as 28 months of fuel. Even if it was put together fast they would use the older design, that is if Earth of somebody else (like the master) didn't design a more efficient drive.

This is where I took more from reality then from RT fiction.

rem1093 wrote:
3.I just think that your FTL is slower, then say Phase world's FTL, And with the masters having FTL's for as long as they did before Fold drives they would have created drives as fast as Phase world, witch the REF would have access to.

I don't know how you formed this opinion since I didn't define the 'speed' the Bernard inertial-less FTL drive went.

rem1093 wrote:
4. As for the hole Robotechnology thing well, that is the big Quagmire. Because every bit of tech that was reversed engineered. or enhanced from the tech that was on the SDF-1 is robotechnology. That would include ALL space tech, ALL computer tech, ALL engineering tech, EXT, EXT. And if all that robotechnology is now useless, well we are in deep deep trouble, and left with only the tech we have now in the real world.

Not ALL tech is based in Protoculture, engineering tech is a example of a application that, while it can be dominated by PC tech, it does not mean it was ALL PC tech.
The difference between the consumption of PC for making comp and the PC consumed for Powering ships is astronomical.
It's like the difference between in power use of a LED light and a steel smelting foundry.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Not ALL tech is based in Protoculture, engineering tech is a example of a application that, while it can be dominated by PC tech, it does not mean it was ALL PC tech.
The difference between the consumption of PC for making comp and the PC consumed for Powering ships is astronomical.
It's like the difference between in power use of a LED light and a steel smelting foundry.

YOU said Robotechnology not Potoculture. And wile the two do come from that same source, Zor, they are not mutually exclusive. You can use Rototechnology, which is the tech, without Potoculture, a powersource. A perfice example of this is the Grand cannons, which are Giant Reflex cannons, and use robotechnology in there creation but are not powered by Protoculture. The one thing that I hear mentioned a lot, though multiple sources, is the robotech age, that seams to point to the fact that robotechnology is similar to the digital technology, and the Digital age, and the fact that digital technology is used in everything from your car, your phone, the refrig., ext. What doesn't use digital tech these days, and at this point in the Robotech, heck during that ACS era, Robotechnology (the tech), would be used just as much.

drewkitty in the chachamaru text wrote:The down side to using the new fusion reactors to power the ship is the lost of hyperspace travel. The current fold drives use too much protoculture tech for them to accept power from fusion reactors.

And robotechnology is mostly uses PC as it's power source.

If the UEEF is getting away from PC as a fuel source, then yes, they would be developing other tech then Robotechnology.

Engineering is not exclusively robotchnology.

[rhetorical]So why would a Fleet that is moving away from a very finite fuel want to include tech that uses that finite fuel?[/rhetorical] <--(aimed at the comments about them not using the heavy P beam cannon)

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

drewkitty in the chachamaru text wrote:The down side to using the new fusion reactors to power the ship is the lost of hyperspace travel. The current fold drives use too much protoculture tech for them to accept power from fusion reactors.

And robotechnology is mostly uses PC as it's power source.

If the UEEF is getting away from PC as a fuel source, then yes, they would be developing other tech then Robotechnology.

Engineering is not exclusively robotechnology.

[rhetorical]So why would a Fleet that is moving away from a very finite fuel want to include tech that uses that finite fuel?[/rhetorical] <--(aimed at the comments about them not using the heavy P beam cannon)

Just because Robotechnology uses Protoculure does not mean that it will not work without it. Protoculure is fuel, no different then gas, coal, bio fuel, or uranium. Just because you change that source of power doesn't mean that you have give up any tech that you have. That's like saying that if you change your car from gas to ethanol you have to give up your radio. There is no reason for then to move away from Robotechnology just because they can't use protoculure.
Also i never said that engineering is exclusive to robotechnology. I said that robotechnology is use in engineering, or more to the point that the tech that was pulled from the SDF-1 effected and/or changed the way we look at, all the tech fields. Heck it would change the way we looked at the universe on hole. But all that is tech that was pulled is Robotechnology.
Just as a side thing, How do you play ROBOTECH, without ROBOTECHNOLOGY. More to the point are you still playing ROBOTECH without it, or are use just playing some other space rpg?

I make Robotechnology what it is, through Protoculture Circuitry Chips. This is how I view the Invid were able to see the Gallant that Rand had. It also makes it much harder to have non-invid sensing mecha - since they have protoculture everywhere within, not just as a fuel source.

rem1093 wrote:Just because Robotechnology uses Protoculure does not mean that it will not work without it. Protoculure is fuel, no different then gas, coal, bio fuel, or uranium. Just because you change that source of power doesn't mean that you have give up any tech that you have. That's like saying that if you change your car from gas to ethanol you have to give up your radio. There is no reason for then to move away from Robotechnology just because they can't use protoculure.
Also i never said that engineering is exclusive to robotechnology. I said that robotechnology is use in engineering, or more to the point that the tech that was pulled from the SDF-1 effected and/or changed the way we look at, all the tech fields. Heck it would change the way we looked at the universe on hole. But all that is tech that was pulled is Robotechnology.
Just as a side thing, How do you play ROBOTECH, without ROBOTECHNOLOGY. More to the point are you still playing ROBOTECH without it, or are use just playing some other space rpg?

This statement tells me you haven't read the RT novels.

While I know HG has declared them to be non-canon, they do explains the reasons behind the "hand-waviyum' of how the use of PC cheats it's way around many problems.

Like the way Kirk's kid uses an unstable substance to cheat his way around many of the problems with the Genesis Device in 'Wrath of Kahn", but that substance caused other problems with the device.

However, many of the aspects of PC in RTnoligy is like how in Macross Frontier, Grace (the Galaxy agent) used Ranka Lee as a Translation device to take control of the Vajra. With Ranka Lee playing the part of PC.
Talking about how the Thinking Caps (the helmets) work to translate the pilot's thoughts into mecha movement.

As per the use of PC in robotechnology, the Valkarries used a fusion engine to to power it and as thrusters. The only PC being in the RT symmetry (PC chips) in it's avionics.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

rem1093 wrote:Just because Robotechnology uses Protoculure does not mean that it will not work without it. Protoculure is fuel, no different then gas, coal, bio fuel, or uranium. Just because you change that source of power doesn't mean that you have give up any tech that you have. That's like saying that if you change your car from gas to ethanol you have to give up your radio. There is no reason for then to move away from Robotechnology just because they can't use protoculure.
Also i never said that engineering is exclusive to robotechnology. I said that robotechnology is use in engineering, or more to the point that the tech that was pulled from the SDF-1 effected and/or changed the way we look at, all the tech fields. Heck it would change the way we looked at the universe on hole. But all that is tech that was pulled is Robotechnology.
Just as a side thing, How do you play ROBOTECH, without ROBOTECHNOLOGY. More to the point are you still playing ROBOTECH without it, or are use just playing some other space rpg?

This statement tells me you haven't read the RT novels.

While I know HG has declared them to be non-canon, they do explains the reasons behind the "hand-waviyum' of how the use of PC cheats it's way around many problems.

Like the way Kirk's kid uses an unstable substance to cheat his way around many of the problems with the Genesis Device in 'Wrath of Kahn", but that substance caused other problems with the device.

However, many of the aspects of PC in RTnoligy is like how in Macross Frontier, Grace (the Galaxy agent) used Ranka Lee as a Translation device to take control of the Vajra. With Ranka Lee playing the part of PC.
Talking about how the Thinking Caps (the helmets) work to translate the pilot's thoughts into mecha movement.

As per the use of PC in robotechnology, the Valkarries used a fusion engine to to power it and as thrusters. The only PC being in the RT symmetry (PC chips) in it's avionics.

First off, I own and have read every book from Genesis to End Of Circle. And wile they were both good and bad, good with the Intro in Genesis that explains Zors death, and how Breetai lost his eye. Or the bad, Ed. with is mecha shaped like nude Lisa Hunter, with chest cannons. And don't even get me started on End of circle, (Haydron4, in a ripoff of Unicron, music and Phycic kids transporting the SDF-1 fold drives though space, time, and into a different demention). Oh by the way, the haydronites, don't use ptotoculure, can't grow it on there metal planet, but there planet size mecha can still fire a Reflex cannon with its arms.
As for Frontier, well that's not Robotech, that's Macross. There is a difference, for one robotechnology is call overtechnology, and that protoculure is not a power source from a plant but the first human people, like the Ancients from SG1. But if you are going to use other Anime as examples, then I can say that I can have a reflex rifle, just like gundam has buster rifle's.
Also the Thinking caps, well Roy tells Rick that the VTs have 50+ controls, no mention of the caps. Then there is the fact that Rick is seen flying without a helmet. And how do use the caps with multi pilot mecha or that Rich, Max, Lisa, and Ben, were able to pilot the Battle pod when they escaped from the Zents without caps.

With the PC chips and some of the other things that Proto. does, well they are just FOL processed in differnt ways. Like OIL, and that you can make plastic, rubber, gas, from it.

The post betrayal ships I presented have one thing in common, Reducing or eliminating the dependence on a finite fuel source. Thus ether eliminating or reducing the reason for the haydonites attacks on the human race.

[challenge]If you don't like the ones I've posted, don't nit-pick, show us that you can do better and create your own.[/challenge]

I didn't say that I didn't like that designs you did, because I do like them. I was just saying that you don't have to give up tech, as you posted about the fold drives and reflex cannons. Like for a fold type ship (just off the to of my head) I would go with something like this. Say that the ship would be a decommissioned prototype test ship, created back when Zor was creating Protoculture. The ship could be 3/4 to a mile long, with three hex shaped rings, each with five large heavy duty capacitors each with its own fusion reactor to charge it. It could take like 48 to 72 hours to recharge the capacitors for a jump. There would be a separate reactor to power the small crew compartment. Something like this would give you a fold ship but without proto.

would be easier to just refit what they already have.

Chris0013 wrote:would be easier to just refit what they already have.

That might require some reduction in performance, or taking out some systems to install bulkier powerplants and fuel bunkerage(like converting an oil-fired naval dreadnought to coal-fed boilers).
Plus, the new Haydonite enemies will have had a chance to know all about existing Human designs; long term, the UEEF will want new designs better suited to take out known and anticipated Haydonite forces, before they face a situation like that which condemned the British battlecruisers Renown and Repulse(lacked inadequate armament for the task of repelling heavy air assault, and were bombed out).

Very nice new ships. I like them. Any chance for some new ones?

the only other ships I have made are ones for my "Lost Colony" setting. A few of them are converted zent ships. The others are more along the line of ships in the USA's wet navy, w/ the converted zent ships acting as the carriers.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

rem1093 wrote:Just because Robotechnology uses Protoculure does not mean that it will not work without it. Protoculure is fuel, no different then gas, coal, bio fuel, or uranium.

This statement tells me you haven't read the RT novels.

Novels are superceeded by the show. as per the show, Protoculture is a Molecule (as described in Louie's dialog in "Dangerzone"), used a fuel (multiple references by narrator in macross, Southern Cross, and New Gen segments.)

as per dialog in "Catastrophe", Protoculture is obtained from the spores of the Flower of Life.

so it is a fuel, although something of an unique one.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Here is a stop-gap ship design for use between the former gen. of ships of 'every ship a carrier' design to specialized 'ship's of the line' and 'dedicated carriers'.


VLH-3 Chachamaru class Hanger Ship
To fill the void the was created to fill the void in the UEEF's support classes, but few were constructed till the Betrayal. With the destruction of most of the carriers and the backlog of creating new fold drives to remove those susceptible to hydonites disrupter beams, created a delay in the building of Ikazuchi carriers. And because of this delay the UEEF chose to fill the forces void the delay created, with these bare bones carriers. From a construction standpoint, the VLH-3's were a godsend. Already developed, didn't need a fold drive and it had the hanger space to launch and recover even the new LCA-16V's. The down side is that the VLH-3 need another fold capable ships to carry it along, like the old Garfish HSTC-27's. However, this was planed to be overcome by the pairing it with a Shadow Dimensional CL, to that point it has a module docking port built right into its hull. Some other down sides are that the hull is short on personnel space so the crew and pilots and whatever troops are crammed in like sardines (the pairing with SDCL was also meant to alleviate some of the cramped spaces), and the SDCL's main turret is limited to direct frontal fire. To balance out the limitations of the ship to ship fire while mated the VLH-3 has two dual plasma beam turrets. These are the same as the SDCL's. For close in fire and point defense, it also has four of the standard PDL's placed two topside and two keelside. Standard deployment methodology would have have the VLH-3's deployed to the rear to launch their fighters and landing craft in relative safety. However, current realities dictate a more forward deployment then standard doctrine, till the delayed Ikazuchis can be finished.
Another twist to the development of the VLH-3's are that all the decks of the hanger bays have gravity plating inside and out. This gives it the ability to park mecha on virtually any deck it has space. It also makes it ideal for them to first in & last out for combat deployments. Able to consolidate the mecha from other, less combat worthy vessels then Micro-Jump into the combat area; and able to accommodate stragglers or orphans from other ships.

Type: Vehicle, Landing Hanger-3 (VLH-3)

Class: Chachamaru Hanger Ship

Ships Complement:
Ships Crew: 65
Troops:
( LCA-16V loads)
Flight crew: 66 & Marine Corps detachments: 1250
(Fighter loads: alpha's only)
Pilots (160-360); flight deck Personnel: 250; Marine Corps detachments: 250
(Fighter loads: legios)
Pilots (80-160); UEEF flight deck Personnel: 250 ; Marine Corps detachments: 250

Mecha complement
( LCA-16V loads)
LCV-16V's: 8 (max recovery 12)
Cyclones: 1300
(Fighter loads: alpha's only)
VF/A-6: 150 (standing room only)
External grab bars-200
(Fighter loads: legios)
alpha-tread combos: 80 (every deck is floor)

Notes:
*depleting the MDC of the observation deck will make it unusable.
* depleting the MDC of the main engines will make them inoperable. If all are inoperable, the ship will continue on it's ballistic course.
* the ships bridge is in the core of the central section of the ship.

Speed: This ship is not atmospheric capable.
Flying in Space: Combat speed of 1523 mph ( 2,579.1 kph) or Mach 2. Max sub-light speed of 0.20 c, matching the limit of its Garfish partner.
Maximum Range: only limited by consumables The Reflex furnace can carry enough monopole fuel for 20 years of operation. (current SOP limits fuel levels to two years of bunkerage). Is able to carry between 4 months and two years of other consumables depending on the life support loads.
Statistical Data:
Length: 1225 feet ( 373.38 m)
Beam: 585 feet ( 178.308 m)
Height: 220 feet ( 67.056 m)
Weight: 250,000 tons fully fueled and provisioned, w/o payload
Power Source: One Reflex Furnace powering four sub-capital plasma thrusters arrays. When linked to the SDCL, the power link up lessens the drain on the SDCL's Reflex Furnace by half.

Weapons Systems
1. HPC-SL250 Dual-barreled 240-mm Long Range Particle Cannon (2, keel side).
Uses the same Cannon as the Garfish but with only two barrels per turret.
Mounted on opposite ends of the dorsal side of the ship
note: use the RT:SC art book garfish artwork to reference what the turrets and barrels look like.

2. MLWS-40 Rapid Fire 40-mm Point Defense Lasers (4)
These standard point defense are placed with two on the Keel side and two dorsal side of the central hull. topside of the central hull.

Note: this ship's escape pods were omitted from the first 20 ships of the production run to speed construction times. Plans are to refit these ships as soon as practical.

just an idea why dont you register to deviant art .com and look for some that can draw and would cost u $ or pay a little for this idea this look for good

glitterboy2098 wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

rem1093 wrote:Just because Robotechnology uses Protoculure does not mean that it will not work without it. Protoculure is fuel, no different then gas, coal, bio fuel, or uranium.

This statement tells me you haven't read the RT novels.

Novels are superceeded by the show. as per the show, Protoculture is a Molecule (as described in Louie's dialog in "Dangerzone"), used a fuel (multiple references by narrator in macross, Southern Cross, and New Gen segments.)

as per dialog in "Catastrophe", Protoculture is obtained from the spores of the Flower of Life.

so it is a fuel, although something of an unique one.

And with your selective quoting you took my comments out of context.

ZINO wrote:just an idea why don't you register to deviant art .com and look for some that can draw and would cost u $ or pay a little for this idea this look for good

Has posted a scan to my photobucket account, which I linked to above.
I do have a more sketches but they have never been digitized.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

ZINO wrote:just an idea why don't you register to deviant art .com and look for some that can draw and would cost u $ or pay a little for this idea this look for good

Has posted a scan to my photobucket account, which I linked to above.
I do have a more sketches but they have never been digitized.

maybe it time to go to the next level and get help like I did
if you wish

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

glitterboy2098 wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

rem1093 wrote:Just because Robotechnology uses Protoculure does not mean that it will not work without it. Protoculure is fuel, no different then gas, coal, bio fuel, or uranium.

This statement tells me you haven't read the RT novels.

Novels are superceeded by the show. as per the show, Protoculture is a Molecule (as described in Louie's dialog in "Dangerzone"), used a fuel (multiple references by narrator in macross, Southern Cross, and New Gen segments.)

as per dialog in "Catastrophe", Protoculture is obtained from the spores of the Flower of Life.

so it is a fuel, although something of an unique one.

And with your selective quoting you took my comments out of context.

nope. i understood the context perfectly. and your still incorrect. the novel's attribute to PC a mystical aspect that the show refustes. (the novels altered several lines of dialog to support the mysticism.. said lines don't exist in the show, so the mysticism has no basis). Shadow chronicles especially kills the mysticism, given how the haydonites are completely different and their goals run completely counter to the novels (in the novels they want people using protoculture because they're trying to exploit the mysticism...in shadow chronicles they're trying to stop the use of protoculture. which means that any mysticism involved on their end isn't that of the novels)

in the show, Protoculture is a fuel. period. a fuel from an exotic source, but a fuel, no different in principle than any other fuel.

Though the recent Invid Invasion supplement goes a bit more into the various effects and uses of the raw Flower of Life. For the most part, any psycho effects are hallucinatory, and the book notes that clairvoyant flashes from inhaling the spores occur only a fraction of the time. No mention of such effects from exposure to Protoculture itself.

Of course, you can tweak it however you wish in your own games, from Protoculture being mere bio-fusion to it being psychometa-mind expander, but I have to agree withe above; Protoculture is a very restrained, if energetic, power source, and is not treated in the anime as realistically(as in demonstrated effect) being anything more.

(cut to cut footage of several UEEF engineers on Moon Base ALUCE in a back corridor of the power station zoning out after taping the Protoculture cells...)

glitterboy2098 wrote:in the show, Protoculture is a fuel. period. a fuel from an exotic source, but a fuel, no different in principle than any other fuel.

In the shows PC is not JUST a fuel source. Which was my point. Which is why when you cut off my expenation of how PC is not JUST used as a fuel source, prompted me to point out how your misquoting me was out of context. Because most of what I said in that post, which you did not post, was the context of the one line you quoted.

Just like you can misquote the bible into saying that you should go hang yourself and do it quickly, it you leave out the context of the verses you are quoting.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

glitterboy2098 wrote:in the show, Protoculture is a fuel. period. a fuel from an exotic source, but a fuel, no different in principle than any other fuel.

In the shows PC is not JUST a fuel source. Which was my point. Which is why when you cut off my expenation of how PC is not JUST used as a fuel source, prompted me to point out how your misquoting me was out of context. Because most of what I said in that post, which you did not post, was the context of the one line you quoted.

that stuff doesn't apply either. protoculture isn't some all powerful handwavium in the show.
it doesn't alter the nature of the universe in the show..unlike the novels.
There are no 'Thinking caps' or man-machine magic links...unlike the novels.
it's not magic in the show...unlike the novels.

the show never says what Protoculture chips do, but since the novels explain it as basically the means by which to acheive "magic" through technobabble, but the show doesn't have the magic in question, the novels wouldn't apply

to be more specific..
in the novels, protoculture is said to be a type of energy, with protoculture chips being the way regular energy gets converted to forms compatable with PC energy. PC energy in the novels allows the warping of space, psychic links between man and machine, and a nubmer of other quasi-magical effects. it also has has an intellegence of it's own, "the shapings", altering events towards a specific set of perdetermined events.

but in the show, Protoculture is a physical fuel. there is no psychic links or 'shapings'. Fold drives aren't expalined, but since the novel's special energy as a catalyst doesn't exist, the explanation in the novels can't apply. since PC is a physical fuel, protoculture chips cannot be energy conversion systems like in the novels.


the novel's explanation of how protoculture pulls off it's handwaves is reliant on the "protoculture as energy" explanation from the novels. in the show, Protoculture is a physical material, so none of the novel explanations apply

@drw - overall not bad. not bad at all

Has posted my 'lost colony' background and ships.

Thank you for your quick response.

Eww...shiny!!!

Nice.
But....might be too many bells and whistles.

I did something a little different, importing Macross II ships, but the write ups aren't quite ready yet.

-POUNCER

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Nice.
But....might be too many bells and whistles.

Sounds like you've been watching Battlestar a little too much.

Good concept. Keeping them simple means less to sabatage. Nice stuff indeed.