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While I normally allow anything out of bounds so long as the player can come up with a back story to back it up, I have to say I agree with you here. The player is trying to get all the benefits of the OCC without having to live with the limitations. Which is him trying to munchkin his way through character creation, and, well, you know how most of us feel about munchkins.

You are not being unreasonable by telling him that, essentially, he needs to pick an OCC and go with it - bonuses and penalties. He can't have it both ways.

paxmiles wrote:So I got a reply as to his thinking:

-He is using the Mystic Knight's Rules for abilities, and skills as per the Federation of Magic

-For equipment, he is using the White Rose Knight as per madhaven. He says that the White Rose Gear is the "updated" version of the mystic knight's.

-For the code, he says that the code only applies to those raised by a knightly order. He goes on to say that the code isn't a limitation, but a RP option.

I'm rather confused by his reasoning, but at least I understand his thinking now.

Thoughts?
-Pax

Correct except on the point of gear. For gear the only thing that is different is the right to a starting vehicle (which is typical for most player characters post RUE), and the fact that each weapon is using the 1d6+6 clips of starting ammo. Likewise, the only other thing that is different is that the character combat bonus progression is utilizing the newer white knights, since that falls in line more with the newer progression model (the home brew group I played with originally developed an adhoc advancement chart. The new one in Madhaven is about the same).

The deal with the code would involve me having to go into my character background. Normally there isn't any way to get around the code with a mystic knight because they are betrothed and raised in either the tradition of the Mystic Knight, or the order of the White Rose. Since she wasn't directly raised under either order she probably wouldn't have taken a vow to follow any sort of dogma. However, if the dogma is reinforced through the training, then she would end up following it anyway within the limits of her true alignment.

The thing is in Rifts there are no direct divine punishments tied to breaking dogmas and knightly codes: some alignments that are actually allowed under these classes might not follow the code anyway. This is why it's a role play device more than a limitation, boon, or curse. This isn't to say that some people might think it is something of a limitation: I'm certain that other OCCs and classes would think a do-gooder cyber knight is a troublesome fellow to have to adventure with. Likewise, other NPCs might frown upon a fellow member doing such disgraceful acts.

My answer to your concern about the knightly code, is that if you feel it really is going to bother you or somehow break the game, I'll have my character follow it. The issue is that she doesn't even know what a mystic knight is and she only has the skills and abilities of the order, which makes this kind of silly. She also has no support from the mystic knights and most likely would be hunted down and killed if the order ever found out about her existence. They might even brazenly go into Chi-town to try and recover the tools that gave her the abilities she possesses!

Now onto the touchy subject brought up by Severus snype: Munchkins. I figured this would probably be the core thing you are worried about pax and it shows. My choices on the character are not for munchkin reasons, but for role playing reasons. I don't enjoy playing cookie cutter paladins, villains, vigilantes, or rogues. I enjoy playing human characters that have interesting personalities, backgrounds, and goals, which may not be supported by existing class options. A character that is quirky and has flaws is always more interesting in the long run than a character who's only purpose is to serve as an over powered meat shield or number cruncher for damage. I could have easily put the high scores for abilities in the places that count for the mystic knight class, but I chose instead to put them in places that better served my characters archetype and background. Her highest scores are in MA and PB, while the lowest scores are in PS, PE, and IQ.

As for weapons, she has a SDC handgun (the NEMA automag with 5d6 sdc per shot and 1d6x10 per three round burst), a NG heavy duty ion blaster (strongest setting is 3d6 MD, range 500 ft), a TW Crossbow (range 1500ft, has 5 MD bolts that do 1d6 each and 20 sdc bolts that do 2d6 each), and her only good weapon is her sword! (TW Lightblade based off a mystic Kuznya bronze sword, with blinding flash 6 times a day, base damage 2d6 MD, and the ability to form a TW lightblade at 12 PPE for 5 minutes at fifth level strength, which is a grand total of 1d4x10+5 MD a swing).

I guess maybe her armor is over powered. It's the DPM Riot armor, 105 pa version that has the greater MDC allocations. Main body is 50 MDC.

Trying to think if there was anything else, but that seems to be it. Metagame, I picked mystic knight because it provides extra staying power for most player groups and works really well against enemy casters. Unfortunately she probably wouldn't last very long against a true mystic knight, as they can over power her in physical strength and generally have higher endurance. Actually, she probably wouldn't survive very well against any men at arms who really put their focus in combat: She has a PS score of 14 (original score was 8, had a +4 occ bonus and a +2 from boxing).

paxmiles wrote:

Colt47 wrote:Correct except on the point of gear. For gear the only thing that is different is the right to a starting vehicle (which is typical for most player characters post RUE), and the fact that each weapon is using the 1d6+6 clips of starting ammo. Likewise, the only other thing that is different is that the character combat bonus progression is utilizing the newer white knights, since that falls in line more with the newer progression model (the home brew group I played with originally developed an adhoc advancement chart. The new one in Madhaven is about the same).

The deal with the code would involve me having to go into my character background. Normally there isn't any way to get around the code with a mystic knight because they are betrothed and raised in either the tradition of the Mystic Knight, or the order of the White Rose. Since she wasn't directly raised under either order she probably wouldn't have taken a vow to follow any sort of dogma. However, if the dogma is reinforced through the training, then she would end up following it anyway within the limits of her true alignment.

The thing is in Rifts there are no direct divine punishments tied to breaking dogmas and knightly codes: some alignments that are actually allowed under these classes might not follow the code anyway. This is why it's a role play device more than a limitation, boon, or curse. This isn't to say that some people might think it is something of a limitation: I'm certain that other OCCs and classes would think a do-gooder cyber knight is a troublesome fellow to have to adventure with. Likewise, other NPCs might frown upon a fellow member doing such disgraceful acts.

My answer to your concern about the knightly code, is that if you feel it really is going to bother you or somehow break the game, I'll have my character follow it. The issue is that she doesn't even know what a mystic knight is and she only has the skills and abilities of the order, which makes this kind of silly. She also has no support from the mystic knights and most likely would be hunted down and killed if the order ever found out about her existence. They might even brazenly go into Chi-town to try and recover the tools that gave her the abilities she possesses!

Now onto the touchy subject brought up by Severus snype: Munchkins. I figured this would probably be the core thing you are worried about pax and it shows. My choices on the character are not for munchkin reasons, but for role playing reasons. I don't enjoy playing cookie cutter paladins, villains, vigilantes, or rogues. I enjoy playing human characters that have interesting personalities, backgrounds, and goals, which may not be supported by existing class options. A character that is quirky and has flaws is always more interesting in the long run than a character who's only purpose is to serve as an over powered meat shield or number cruncher for damage. I could have easily put the high scores for abilities in the places that count for the mystic knight class, but I chose instead to put them in places that better served my characters archetype and background. Her highest scores are in MA and PB, while the lowest scores are in PS, PE, and IQ.

As for weapons, she has a SDC handgun (the NEMA automag with 5d6 sdc per shot and 1d6x10 per three round burst), a NG heavy duty ion blaster (strongest setting is 3d6 MD, range 500 ft), a TW Crossbow (range 1500ft, has 5 MD bolts that do 1d6 each and 20 sdc bolts that do 2d6 each), and her only good weapon is her sword! (TW Lightblade based off a mystic Kuznya bronze sword, with blinding flash 6 times a day, base damage 2d6 MD, and the ability to form a TW lightblade at 12 PPE for 5 minutes at fifth level strength, which is a grand total of 1d4x10+5 MD a swing).

I guess maybe her armor is over powered. It's the DPM Riot armor, 105 pa version that has the greater MDC allocations. Main body is 50 MDC.

Trying to think if there was anything else, but that seems to be it. Metagame, I picked mystic knight because it provides extra staying power for most player groups and works really well against enemy casters. Unfortunately she probably wouldn't last very long against a true mystic knight, as they can over power her in physical strength and generally have higher endurance. Actually, she probably wouldn't survive very well against any men at arms who really put their focus in combat: She has a PS score of 14 (original score was 8, had a +4 occ bonus and a +2 from boxing).

Let's see, where to begin.

I guess the first and main complaint is that you just decided that these features are part of your mystic knight class and didn't ask permission to add the gear, remove the code, or take any other extra options (like her increased lifespan...).

For RP reasons, the mystic knight isn't an option to just innately learn. It's a trained class. Claiming that your background overrides the cannon rules without asking the GM first is quite annoying.

D6+6 starting clips of ammo per weapon is way more than most RUE classes get. Your OCC is also one that specifically doesn't start with any clips because they have an ability to generate more shots with ISP/PPE. Furthermore, the SD weapon you have listed as starting with 8 clips of silver bullets - not a standard clip, but a specialized one.

Considering you CS background, your character is completely fine using TW items or using magic - not exactly RP...

The fact that your taking a genetically altered CS human mystic knight with additional gear and have the nerve to suggest that this is a RP thing and has nothing to do with being OP or munchkin really bugs me. That and the fact that you just added all these features without considering asking the GM if you can...

Then I offered to overlook this, but you had to add an insanity to the character i n exchange - this was too much for you and you refereed me to the OCC saying that all this was normal - which is no longer your stance on the issue...
-Pax

PS: that offer still stands, any GM would agree that it is a very reasonable trade from even just the additional starting gear, not to mention the loss of the code of honor or the increases that lone star has done to your character. If your really doing this for RP reasons, the insanity won't hinder that. If for munchkin reasons, I can see not wanting an insanity as it limits your OP a bit...

1. Life extension drugs have no in game effect that would make her any more unbalanced than a non-life extended human.
2. She isn't with or working for the Coalition States after the incident that made her what she is. They want her dead just like anyone else. They spared her because the operation was public knowledge and the CS does not want to make themselves look like the bad guys for killing a human they inflicted with the curse of magic.
3. Mystic is an innate class and requires little to no formal training to gain. The Mystic Knight is basically a mystic with a war like bend and some OCC military training. The reason she doesn't have a dogma to follow is because she never took an oath of service to any organization.
4. I selected d6+6 clips per weapon because that is what was listed under the white knight. It can be reduced to 1d4 clips each if that makes you feel any better. Likewise she only has one energy based weapon and it is a northern gun model which is the most energy deficient weapon manufacturer on Rifts Earth. And then what about her sdc pistol and crossbow?

Here is the background for people to laugh at and scrutinize. Yes, it is silly and a bit out there, and requires a bit of work. But what of wild imaginations?

Back story: Marin was born in the mid levels of Chi Town to a middle income family. Her Mother works as a Financial assistant to the Chi Town Civil Services Union, while her fathers occupation was an ISS Specter. Marins objective in life was to become a radio and T.V. personality, but due to financial issues she was forced to take advantage of some rather questionable financial aid promotions. Likewise, she was also a minor psychic, which caused many people to treat her with some level of contempt and suspicion.

The turning point in her life occurred when she was 16 years old. A promotion was going on during late 104 P.A. that involved taking part in an experiment to strengthen psionic powers. Those who would take part in the experiment would get to become honorary members of the nascent psi-battalion and those with at least mid level citizenship would receive 200,000 credits. The problem was that the experiment worked a little too well on Marin and left her comatose for a year and a half. While her body was catatonic, her actual brain activity was off the charts as she relived the past events tied towards the object being used in the experiment.When she came to a year and a half later, she had lived a completely different life from the one she was exposed to in Chi-town, and the results of that second life had permanently effected both her mind and body. Considering the circumstances, the research team and the CS government gave her two options due to the publicity of the event: 1. She could undergo cybernetic reconstruction to remove her spell casting abilities and continue to live a normal life in Chi-town, or 2. have her citizenship revoked, be escorted from Chi-Town, and then supposedly released, never to return to the city. Marin opted for the later option since she didn't want to get hacked to pieces, and worked up her bravery before leaving Chi-Town with her 200,000 credits.

Marin got most of her starting equipment from work in the burbs, which involved odd jobs for the black market. Eventually she got sniffed out by CS patrols, which forced her to run for her life with certain black market items still in her possession.

Additional notes: Marin Hitzig has received the life extension treatments reserved for the upper class thanks to her father in the ISS, so her max life span is greater than the average Rifts Human. She also has an older brother in the CS Special Forces named Eric Hitzig (age 26, Scrupulous, 7th level Special Forces). Marin has no idea what a mystic Knight is. The mystic knight class simply represents the culmination of all of the memories and skills of her second life during her comatose state.

No she doesn't have 200,000 credits as part of her starting gear (before anyone asks).

Colt47 wrote:2. She isn't with or working for the Coalition States after the incident that made her what she is. They want her dead just like anyone else. They spared her because the operation was public knowledge and the CS does not want to make themselves look like the bad guys for killing a human they inflicted with the curse of magic.

this is the point I wish to address...
from what I can gather she was raised as a CS citizen (with all the propaganda that entails).
finding herself in possession of magical abilities is more than enough to warrant an insanity in MHO.

I agreed to the insanity last night after Pax explained all of the issues he is having with the character.

The ammo is a completely separate and legitimate concern that I over looked, as my older GM generally is lenient on munition. I've rerolled munitions for the energy weapon on a D4 and got it down to two Standard E-clips. Looking at the sdc pistol and the costs per clip, I don't think having a decent supply of conventional bullets, with four magazines worth of silver rounds, is too game breaking. The Crossbow is probably her best long range weapon (TW-swarm Crossbow) but in order for it to live up to it's name it requires swarm bolts, which she has none of. Damage on MD bolts is 1d6 MD per shot and the SDC bolts are 2d6 sdc.

Just to weigh in here.

The innate abilities are basically that of a Mystic in RUE with some minor variation and additions. The skills and training are NOT innate. If she was trained in the CS military prior to her abilities manifesting themselves then her starting gear and training/skills should be based on a CS Military OCC or Adventurer/Man at Arms OCC of some kind not that of a Mystic Knight or White Kmight as those skills and training are spcifically taught and gear given to the character by those two orders respectively and not just known or obtained by the character automatically. Especially if she has no knowledge whatsoever of those two orders. In fact if either of those two orders or the FoM found out about her having manifested MK type abilities without any kind of trainig to focus those abilities, IMO they;d try to hunt her down and use her as a ginea pig of somekind to replicate those abilities in others.

Mind you personallu I think the fact the CS kills Mystics at all is crazy as the magic abilities could easily explained away as offshoot psychic powers and none would realy be the wiser for it.....

I was under the impression that a Mystic Knight is someone who would have been a Mystic, but due to the years of training beginning at child-hood their abilities become focused in such a way they get the benefits of being a Mystic Knight.
Now I will say my bias is against handwavium crap as either a GM or player, so keep that in mind, but personally I think a GM is entirely within his/ her rights to veto such a concept.
Nor is the White Rose gear an "update". That's what the Order gets.

Vrykolas2k wrote:I was under the impression that a Mystic Knight is someone who would have been a Mystic, but due to the years of training beginning at child-hood their abilities become focused in such a way they get the benefits of being a Mystic Knight.
Now I will say my bias is against handwavium crap as either a GM or player, so keep that in mind, but personally I think a GM is entirely within his/ her rights to veto such a concept.
Nor is the White Rose gear an "update". That's what the Order gets.

I agree completely, in principle. However I see the powers manifesting themselves as the one aspect that is possible in comparison to the skills/training/equipment.

Vrykolas2k wrote:I was under the impression that a Mystic Knight is someone who would have been a Mystic, but due to the years of training beginning at child-hood their abilities become focused in such a way they get the benefits of being a Mystic Knight.
Now I will say my bias is against handwavium crap as either a GM or player, so keep that in mind, but personally I think a GM is entirely within his/ her rights to veto such a concept.
Nor is the White Rose gear an "update". That's what the Order gets.

Yeah she doesn't have White Rose order gear, despite what is being said. She has gear that is fitting for the background.

jaymz wrote:The innate abilities are basically that of a Mystic in RUE with some minor variation and additions. The skills and training are NOT innate. If she was trained in the CS military prior to her abilities manifesting themselves then her starting gear and training/skills should be based on a CS Military OCC or Adventurer/Man at Arms OCC of some kind not that of a Mystic Knight or White Knight as those skills and training are specifically taught and gear given to the character by those two orders respectively and not just known or obtained by the character automatically. Especially if she has no knowledge whatsoever of those two orders. In fact if either of those two orders or the FoM found out about her having manifested MK type abilities without any kind of training to focus those abilities, IMO they;d try to hunt her down and use her as a guinea pig of some kind to replicate those abilities in others.

Actually, this might be a better way to handle the gear and skills considering her background. The only issue is that there is no way they would allow someone to walk out of a city as a known magic user with Coalition weapons and gear. The gear she has equipped is basically what she got from the black market or are personal belongings.

Skills can be innate, as creatures of magic commonly have skills that they normally don't have any formal training for. Likewise, this is a game where people can wipe memories using psionics. It isn't that far fetched to be able to do the opposite.

As for the second part: yes this falls into the negative end of the background decision. She doesn't get any support from either order and the FoM order would most likely kill her or kidnap her to figure out how the heck she got their abilities.

However she isn;t a creature of magic. Mystics are not creatures of magic, they are more like psychics in that they develop magic abilities. Thus no innate skills because she has magic

As for the CS gear/occ stuff, that was why I added or adventurer/men at arms occs as the option. No reason you can;t use teh Merc Soldier (RUE) or super soldier (Mercenaries) as an option for what gear she gets.

Some OCC's are just training.
Some OCC's are special powers and organizations.

For that one I'd have to say they need to follow the code, cuz thats where most of the abilities originate. Ditto the cyber-knight and most men of magic.

As I satedearlier, I do not think the character should get he starting gear of eitehr iteh MK OR the WR. They are not of those orders adn those detail are specific to those orders. Any otehr adventuring OCC or Man at arms OCC (barring it beign part of a specific order/school/city etc) details woudl have sufficed when taking the characters background into account. In fact ESPECIALLY taking the characters background into account.

jaymz wrote:As I said earlier, I do not think the character should get he starting gear of either the MK OR the WR. They are not of those orders and those detail are specific to those orders. Any other adventuring OCC or Man at arms OCC (barring it being part of a specific order/school/city etc) details would have sufficed when taking the characters background into account. In fact ESPECIALLY taking the characters background into account.

Good point. I can switch the starting gear out for a mercenary or adventurer OCC and it would make more sense at this point than what I got. I'm having a hard time thinking of a justification on how my character would have the sword she has, as magic weapons are rare outside of the magic zone. Maybe the City Rat starting gear would be more sufficient than what is currently equipped (Minus cybernetics).

Pax, do you think that the City rat starting gear would be a better fit than the other package that I was originally picking? I was assuming that the starting gear from the mystic knight or white knight would be ok because you OKed the OCC and I tried as a player to work a reason for why she has her gear into the background. And how is a background reason for starting gear a false justification?

Shorty Lickens wrote:Some OCC's are just training.
Some OCC's are special powers and organizations.

For that one I'd have to say they need to follow the code, cuz thats where most of the abilities originate. Ditto the cyber-knight and most men of magic.

The powers are not linked to the code, otherwise the now members of the order of the white rose would have suddenly been without their abilities the moment they decided to go against the order of the Mystic Knights.

Now their saying that they follow the White Rose OCC for skills and gear, but Mystic knight OCC for abilities, and neither for code. This bugs me and I said a flat no.

Am I being unreasonable here?

And you decided to say this in the thread, but to me you said that it is ok as long as it has an insanity? Why?

This is your first post to me on my character!

Interesting background. It fails to cover one thing, her attitude toward D-bees and magic users. This includes her attitude toward herself.

I'm thinking that she is probably very conflicted inside because she uses magic, but was born and raised to hate users like herself. Furthermore, her family was torn from her and she can't ever see them again, except maybe as enemies...

I suggest picking an insanity that reflects her attitude about magic and how it involves her.

Your pick on the insanity, but if you do this I'll overlook the rather extensive additional gear your character has instead of what the OCC says you start with...
-Pax

paxmiles wrote:

Colt47 wrote:

Now their saying that they follow the White Rose OCC for skills and gear, but Mystic knight OCC for abilities, and neither for code. This bugs me and I said a flat no.

Am I being unreasonable here?

And you decided to say this in the thread, but to me you said that it is ok as long as it has an insanity? Why?

Good question. I posted this after you refused to take an insanity and suggested that all this starting gear was part of the "updated" version of the OCC combined with your background. I suppose it was to vent mostly, as I was frustrated.

I posted this thread to get advice from other GMs, in case I was just being a dick and didn't realize it. It seemed like your character's background was merely a tool to gain abilities, gear and skills that wouldn't normally make sense. Then you seemed to lie about the reasons that your character started with this gear - never once even considering asking if you could just start with extra gear.

Apparently, your background is just for RP reasons as you said. The extra gear was just assumed as okay, which is common in most RPG groups you play in. I get that now.

The funny thing about all this, is that you had the option to play a bio-freak RCC.

I mean, a bio freak with Energy absorption (super) and a normal RUE OCC (like CS dead boy, or the city rat) would pretty much fill your character background and class concept much better than the mystic knight (I would rule that energy absorption can recharge E-clips).

Out of curiosity, why did you chose the mystic knight for your background concept? Seems like any magic user class, or many other class options would fit just as well as the mystic knight did (as in, barely fits with cannon).

If you just wanted a mystic knight, why not just take that?

Why did it have to be a CS human mutant mystic knight?
-Pax

Mostly because it seemed like an interesting idea to try out. The mystic knight and the White knight both represent extremes on the whole morality issue, which made me ask the question: why couldn't there be a "mystic Knight of little interest?" I reasoned that the primary issue was that the mystic knight was raised in such a way that they have no choice on what to pursue outside of their combat training. For the typical mystic knight there is nothing but combat, and it is the way they choose to live. So what if there was a way to separate the individual from that oppressive society and put them in a situation where they aren't forced to be a combatant 24/7? What if the individual instead had the abilities pressed onto them by events outside of their control, and then get pushed into an adventuring career? I picked a character in the CS Fortress City because it is isolated from the outside world and represents the closest thing to a sheltered life I could find. The only reason she even survives after the entire incident is because she is an outgoing individual who likes taking initiative in her life, which allows her to survive the transition from safe comfortable city, to the helter skelter life of being in the burbs at the mercy of the Black market, the CS Patrols, and the other dangers of that life. She spends a whole six months outside and burns through all her 200,000 credits just trying to survive, while simultaneously getting used to abilities that she received much like the first Pre Rifts magic users.

Imagine how hard it would be to get used to the fact you suddenly are able to fire blasts of energy from your hands and eyes with just a thought, or be able to form magic armor around your body. And all of this on top of trying to follow ones original goals in life! Likewise, think about how it would be to awaken from a coma with knowledge about magic and the outside world, and realize that everyone else is living in a fantasy world being fed lies on a regular basis? It would be like Neo in the matrix when he first woke up in his pod, only to see thousands of people all hooked up to machines and being used as batteries. Marin even went through a similar flushing from the society when she chose to leave the City on the threat of being chopped up, rebuilt, and re-appropriated.

So yes, she has power beyond imagining and is chipper on the outside, but the price for this power is great. You can kind of see now why I find the insanity not so appetizing: it adds more clout to an already narrative heavy character.

paxmiles wrote:

Colt47 wrote:

Paxmiles wrote:Why did it have to be a CS human mutant mystic knight?
-Pax

Mostly because it seemed like an interesting idea to try out. The mystic knight and the White knight both represent extremes on the whole morality issue, which made me ask the question: why couldn't there be a "mystic Knight of little interest?"

When you word it like this, it does seem interesting. The Mystic Knight of Apathy....

Moral code:

#1 I don't care...


But seriously, I do like this concept better than taking a White Knight/Mystic Knight and having them be a CS mutant version.

Any chance you'd be willing to create a new OCC that reflects the neutral/other faction of the Mystic Knight? Then take that class and make a new background for the character, one that isn't nearly as bizarre sounding as the "CS human mutant magic knight thing..."

Nothing over the top, but your welcome to be a bit creative. For requirements:

-it needs a code of honor (even one like the code of apathy above... It's a knight, so it should have some kind of code.)

-Needs skills, starting gear, and class abilities that other players would have if they took this OCC. Build the genaric OCC version first, send me that. If I approve it, then you can just pick the gear you need/want for your character.

-And a basic description about the custom OCC and how it came into being.

Sound good?

Since we're doing a custom version of the rifts setting, why not have this class be a native? I can give your character some extra info on the setting, and my NPC won't be the only one on the beach at the start of the campaign. Reasonable?
-Pax

It sounds like a rather fun idea. I'm not exactly sure where to take it quite off the bat, as it still would require some level of formal training due to military skills. Perhaps in this world, mystic knights are actually trained as city defenders and people with mystic potential are sought out and brought in for formal training. Since the potential to be a mystic is kind of random, all sorts of random individuals would be part of the fighting force: from the lowly vagabond, the bold street rat, to the average citizen or soldier. Now depending on the city in question, they will either be using traditional mounts, or they would be using vehicles.

I'd take the Mystic knight OCC as a base since the class skills are actually pretty flexible. They get their choice of espionage, military, and rogue skills. This would represent the entire gamut of individuals who would be involved in this occupation. Mystic potential would show up before they even got a chance to pursue anything too complex, so the rest seems fine. I'd replace the two mounted combat skills with two non-military vehicles of choice, and allow combat driving as an option. Obviously it would be alright for them to choose computer skills if they are part of a city force. Nothing greater than basic math, however.

Going to PM you the new skill list.

I would resolve it by kicking the player out of the group. A player like that would bring more drama then they are worth.

paxmiles wrote:

paxmiles wrote:As a GM, I gain in the fact that my setting has just gained two things: a new OCC and a new part of the setting. My player gains the ability to create a character of his own design.

So this one seems to have backfired. My player is against me tweaking any part of her "intellectual property." This means that somehow, I'm not allowed to use her class or setting in ways she doesn't like.

To me, this defeats all the point of letting her make a new class/city and strikes me as a odd action - odd because she shared it with me for my setting, but won't allow it to be used in the setting.

So for example, Our party went to her hometown last session. She was all bent out of shape because I didn't warn her in advance. I guess she didn't think that submitting her character into my setting meant I could do things with her character?!?!

I think the party is going to wake from a dream that was last session, or something....grr...this is annoying.

Anyone else had issues with players claiming intellectual property over their character? How do you resolve it?
-Pax

Ya, and I've done it myself with a GM who decided to erase bits of my character and replace it with their own stuff.
Way too heavy-handed for me.
If I, as GM, don't like something I'll discuss what I think needs to be changed in a give-and-take thing. As a player, I expect the same courtesy.
For the most part, you've done what you need to with the player from what I've seen.

I'm starting to realize there might have been better options for how to have made this character archetype. At this point though, there's little I can do about the situation without completely rerolling the character. Basically, instead of having to write out a overly complex background and redoing skills, I could have just taken some ordinary OCC like Pax suggested and utilized heroes unlimited super powers. The only reason I didn't do this before is because I forgot I even had the heroes unlimited books since I've practically never used them (there was a game at one point where we were going to make heroes unlimited guys, but the game got cancelled and we never played or even mentioned the setting since that time.)

paxmiles wrote:

Vrykolas2k wrote:Ya, and I've done it myself with a GM who decided to erase bits of my character and replace it with their own stuff.
Way too heavy-handed for me.
If I, as GM, don't like something I'll discuss what I think needs to be changed in a give-and-take thing. As a player, I expect the same courtesy.
For the most part, you've done what you need to with the player from what I've seen.

So how does this differ from other situations in the game.

Like if my PC finds themselves in a situation that gets them killed/crippled - have I broken that line into their intellectual property? Or maybe they fail to save the town from total oblivion due to their own shortcomings (or just bad dice)?

At what point am I crossing the line from being a GM into altering intellectual property?

I'm not wanting to nit-pick this, just want it clear in my mind how far this intellectual property thing goes.
-Pax

In-game situations are different, as long as you aren't arbitrarily doing crap to screw with a character/ player (I've had such a GM).