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Long Shadow wrote:No, the charater needs to call the Death Blow before rolling for it. It's only if you call it and get the required roll that Death Blow is enacted. If you're using Rifts Ultimate or Heroes Unlimited 2nd ed. it takes two attacks.

what about kock out/stun - does that have to be declared?

dragonfett wrote:Ah, but on page 316 of the RUE and on page of 28 of the original Rifts Main Book, under the Boxing skill, it says that someone with the boxing skill will automatically knockout opponents on a roll of a naturally 20, and unlike a normal Knockout/Stun attack, the player does not need to announce that they are wanting to attempt the Knockout. Deathblow still requires to be announced first (especially considering the fact that Deathblow requires two attacks).

My point is still valid. All this entry does is add a new condition to check for. So what this entry means is that you need to declare a knockout unless you have boxing... then it's mandatory. Death blow still needs to be announced as you stated.

dragonfett wrote:Most melee called strikes don't have a negative to the roll unless the target area is really small (like the ear or eye). The reason for this is at melee range, it is much easier to hit where you are trying to hit, you just do so with out any bonuses to strike (IIRC).

Lucky wrote:If the deathblow is only on a roll of natural 20, then penalties to strike would be superfluous.

The way I see it, a house rule which would NOT require deathblow to be declared is defeating the entire purpose of deathblow to begin with. The reason DB is so cool (and why it is only available at higher levels of experience) is because at that point in their training, the practitioner is skilled and precise enough to be able to target the lethal areas of their opponents' bodies, and with this level of proficiency I find it highly unlikely that a martial artist would "accidentally" perform a killing strike without meaning to.

Necronomicus wrote:so what about tremendous p.s. when you do a death blow on a roll of 16-20. you have to declare everytime you roll that you might do a death blow.

Severus Snape wrote:Here's what I do: I house rule that you cannot use death blow. Why? While it's feasible that you could strike someone really hard in the head and kill them, it's more likely that you'll do enough SDC/HP damage from a blow or two to kill them. And rolling a natural 20 should always inflict at least double damage, which may kill someone.

That and I've had players who call a death blow shot on every combat action because they want that one-hit kill. Yes, I know the monsters/NPCs can use this against the players. But I don't want to kill my players - I want them to play and have fun. And it's no fun for me (or some other players) if someone is always saying "I'm going to attempt the death blow". Pffft.

House rule it out of existence, I did. Forbid my players to use it, I did. Hmmm. Do the same, you should.

dragonfett wrote:So what do you do in compensation for a character whose Hand to Hand skill or some class special ability that give them Deathblow and nothing else at level X?

Prysus wrote:

Severus Snape wrote:HTH Martial Arts and HTH Expert, this doesn't happen until Level 15. For HTH Assassin, it happens at Level 7.

Greetings and Salutations. Actually, with Assassin, it's at level 12 (at least in my 2nd Edition, Third Printing). This is just for clarity (and I'm about to address it below as well).

Though I am curious why someone would house rule something that never comes up? Not really a big deal, just curious.

General question for everyone: For those saying that it's a major problem when a player calls it all the time ... I am curious to the problem. I know that it's a fairly powerful ability ... but it's a Level 15 (or 12 in the case of Assassin) which is fairly rare in the first place, then to top it off it can still only be done on a Natural 20 (only a %5 chance of success). I'll be honest, it's never come up in any of my campaigns, but I guess I'm just not quite sure what the problem is with letting a powerful character be powerful?

Also, not quite sure why it should be reserved for that last moment when the character really needs it ... and hope that the character (who for Expert and Martials Arts are at the peak of their ability) will be lucky enough to get a Natural 20?

This is why, personally, I wouldn't make a player call it. At the times when they roll a Natural 20 for their attack (and not for defense) I'd let them pick Death Blow (instead of making them call it EVERY turn, which is just annoying and silly to do to a player) or not. Now, with that said, I would also have the villains attempt to use it the same. Of course, I'm not going to have every random thug they come across suddenly be level 15 just because they are. If they're going up against a Level 15 villain (or even a Level 12 villain with HtH: Assassin), this is a major enemy that should be dangerous (someone who makes it that high isn't common and should be taken seriously).

Though, again, maybe I'm missing something. As I said, this has never actually come up in one of my games (we switch to a new setting, its been years and we feel like something new, the rare times I've actually killed a player character who was really asking for it, schedules start to conflict and the group splits up, etc.). So if I am please explain it to me (I'm just curious). Anyways, I think that's all for now. Thank you for your time and patience, please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys for now.

dragonfett wrote:You know, what about possibly increasing critical damage instead, Severus Snape?

dragonfett wrote:They have changed nothing with the Boxing Skill, it has always granted an automatic Knockout on a Natural 20 (original RMB, page 28, right column, last skill on the page, second line, automatically in italics).

Abub wrote:Oh and one more thing...

other than in the boxing entry... I can't find ANY reference to having to declare a KO attempt.

Most KO HtH benifits are on more than a natural 20. Like in my scanning i saw 17-20 and the like. I would let any fighters in HtH KO on their KO range I think.... just boxers get that 5% chance at first level instead of having to wait until 5th




and.... when would you use a kickboxing "Knee Attack" that does half the damage of a kick? When they listed those attacks you get they should give the lesser one like a bonus to strike or something.

Abub wrote:

Damian Magecraft wrote:

Abub wrote:Oh and one more thing...

other than in the boxing entry... I can't find ANY reference to having to declare a KO attempt.

Most KO HtH benifits are on more than a natural 20. Like in my scanning i saw 17-20 and the like. I would let any fighters in HtH KO on their KO range I think.... just boxers get that 5% chance at first level instead of having to wait until 5th




and.... when would you use a kickboxing "Knee Attack" that does half the damage of a kick? When they listed those attacks you get they should give the lesser one like a bonus to strike or something.

when in tight quarters or grappled.
Rifts Game Master Guide, Page 34, second column, Section entitled The Knockout, 1st paragraph.

Ahh, ok... you get the honor of being right.... on the internet.
I'll have to look it up.... but ok... i am probably standing corrected... or is that directed.

does that mean I get an internet cookie?

Prysus wrote:

Abub wrote:So I checked up on death blow while i was at home for lunch.


AND.... it costs TWO attacks to even try it. That's huge. If one of your players is spamming it they are hurting themselves more than any benefit they get from it.

NOW... that said... its crap. To have to spend two attacks for only a 5% chance is terrible. And I love how the the section in RUE about MDC creatures say its the "same as above" refering to the SDC one doing double direct to HPs in damage. I'm sorry... doing double MDC is not even close to the same thing as doing double direct to hit points even with a tempoary loss of bioregeneration. it should be like quadruple... or force some kind of saving throw or die... or like deals 50% the target's total MDC or something.

Greetings and Salutations. I'll address this with a copy and paste from my response in a different thread. This was discussed on the PF forum, but the wording is pretty much the same in R:UE (and I think most, if not all, settings).

Prysus wrote:2) Deathblow does not always count as two actions. Say what? The book says ... no! The book says that when no number is listed the character can perform Death Blows at will (no Natural roll required), and this devastating attack counts as two actions. The two actions part is connected to the sentence of performing it without natural number, not stand alone. I believe this is significant. While I can't prove this is fact, and arguments can be made to the contrary, I believe my interpretation makes sense. Note: Again, PF doesn't have any Hand to Hand styles with Deathblow not requiring a natural number. This is quite likely a result of another cut and paste job (again, quite possibly from Ninjas & Superspies). Though I have applied this rule to Demon Death Blow of the Palladin (which requires two attacks for note), this is not fact. It is opinion and the way I have done things, but there is disagreement towards it being by the rules. Though go ahead and read the "Death Blow against Supernatural Beings ..." section, which sounds rather similar to the Demon Death Blow, no? Mainly just that DDB of the Palladin is limited to one type of foe, that's all.

3) Deathblow requiring a Natural roll (Natural 20 for PF styles) can be done in a single action, and therefore doesn't have to be declared. Or I guess you could declare it before every action if you're going for it, but doesn't change anything if you don't get that roll (so the only penalty will be making you tired of saying it every turn). This, again, is only personal belief. But, if you believe point 2, then this is a natural conclusion (for me).

Prysus wrote:Now, the "Natural" number puts in a prerequisite. This is something that you only have a 5% (up to 15% if you're REALLY good) of actually succeeding. Though if you can do this without limit, this needs some type of limiter, right? I mean, hence the need for taking two actions. There is a major difference in the ability of the two, hence the difference in how many attacks it takes. Sure, this guy who can do it without limit can call upon it whenever he wants, but it requires time and concentration (two attacks).