Golem question

[csbioborg]

So spellcaster makes a golem
he instructs the golem to obey Johnny headhunters commands and only Johnny no one else
atthis point will the golem obey all of johnny's commands
what if johnny head hunter now says follow all of Billy gunfighters commands
at this point will the golem obey all of Billys commands?
so spellcaster dies the spell says the golem will obey the last command givn to him by the spellcaster
so will it still obey Billy assuming it ever would?
what if Billy tells the golem obey all of Jimmy Preahers commands after spellcaster is dead
will it obey Jimmy's commands?

also
what happens if spellcaster, still alive, after telling the golem to obey Johnny and only Johnny
tells the golem ignore johnny and obey me
go attack johnny
will the golem comply?

also is there any way for the spellcaster of create golem to regain the lost sdc other than by getting pscyhical skills when he levels?

edit also how much is the going rate for a golem if you want to buy one? Ballpark figure

[JuliusCreed]

Here's how I see it;
Spellcaster creates golem with orders to obey Johnny and no one else.
The Golem will obey Johnny's commands, but as a default I believe the golem still sees the spellcaster as his true Master/creator, and follow his commands first and foremost.
If Johnny gives the order to obey Jimmy, the same process applies. It will obey Jimmy, but still obey commands from Johnny as per his true Master's (the spellcaster) original command. (obey Johnny) And, the spellcaster would be able to countermand any orders either Johnny or Jimmy give it.
If, in all of this, the spellcaster dies, the golem will continue to follow the last command of the spellcaster. In this case, obey Johnny.
Just one question though... Are you trying to give the poor golem a complex or something?

[csbioborg]

no I was thinking about a safe house for the Society of Sages in merctown
the safe house is going to be run by a 1-3 low level Sages/Manhunters
So one of the mid tier line walkers in Kingsdale makes the thing
then teleports it to mertown and tells the golem the safehouse keeper is your master
every few years the safe house changes staff so the golem needs new instructions
obviouly the golem in my scenario would get instrutions to obey all members of the safe house but there would be a ranking system obey John's command unless they contradict Bill's


also if you want to sell a golem the buyer will want to know whether the wizard can show up and take command of the it whnever he wants and if the golem will keep working if the wizard dies
steel golem with a diamond heart has 170 mdc and regernates it even if slain unless the heart is removed
there has to be a market for that

[JuliusCreed]

It basically becomes a matter of establishing the Golem's chain of command. However, regardless of who the golem's creator says is in charge, ultimately, the golem will obey the creator first. The creator says obey man 1, Man 1 says obey Man 2, and on and on and on... whoevers highest on the totem pole will have his orders obeyed.
For example, wizard creates golem and orders it to obey Man 1. Man 1 issues the order to kill monster A. After killing monster A, man 1 orders the golem to obey Man 2. Man 2 orders the golem to kill Man 1. Man 1 counters this order, telling the Golem to stop. The Golem will obey Man 1 because of its primary order from the wizard. (obey Man 1) If Man 1 were to try and order the Golem to kill the wizard, it would work the same way. The wizard can order the golem to stop because he is still the golem's creator/Master.
In answer to the second part there about selling golems... Sorry, but, while a wizard could sell his creation to the highest bidder, it is still the wizard's creation and will obey him above anyone else. Not sure of any canon references to this, but it makes sense considering the process of golem creation involving a lengthy ritual ending with the wizard permanently sacrificing part of his own life force in the form of 6 SDC, thus effectively bonding the golem to him in a way. From the Golem's point of view, the wizard is his creator, Master and reason for existing. Don't bite the hand.

[csbioborg]

so your saying you'd need to kill thewizard to make sure the golem would uneqivably obey you?

[JuliusCreed]

so your saying you'd need to kill thewizard to make sure the golem would uneqivably obey you?

If the wizard's last order was to follow your commands... yes.
Just make sure said golem is nowhere near when you try to kill the wizard. Chances are the wizard would order it to kill you. Then it would have a new "final order"

[Damian Magecraft]

so your saying you'd need to kill thewizard to make sure the golem would uneqivably obey you?

Not really CBB.
the creator just needs to set up the mystic equivalent of the 3 laws of robotics in the Golems obedience sequence.

On the aspect of sales...
every smart creator and potential salesman would put in a fail safe command that cannot be overridden (worded veeerrrry carefully) preventing the golem from being used against him.

[csbioborg]

how many credits could you get for a golem?
Assuming the Soceity of man hunters/sages decides they just want to buy one
again they are not combined in canon its a important part of our game though
One other scenario is the main guys in Kingsdale say here is some credits make it happen
I'm assuming any potenia buyers of golem's would want the command to unequivably obey done in front of them so there would be
no chance of the wizard saying in 30 days meet me at xyz location or in 30 days attack your buyers.

[Damian Magecraft]

how many credits could you get for a golem?
Assuming the Soceity of man hunters/sages decides they just want to buy one
again they are not combined in canon its a important part of our game though
One other scenario is the main guys in Kingsdale say here is some credits make it happen
I'm assuming any potenia buyers of golem's would want the command to unequivably obey done in front of them so there would be
no chance of the wizard saying in 30 days meet me at xyz location or in 30 days attack your buyers.

How much does an autonomous robot sell for? charge that plus the cost of the materials involved.
That is always a risk there are unscrupulous types every where. Thats where research into the seller comes in (a side quest if I saw one).

[Killer Cyborg]

So spellcaster makes a golem
he instructs the golem to obey Johnny headhunters commands and only Johnny no one else
atthis point will the golem obey all of johnny's commands
what if johnny head hunter now says follow all of Billy gunfighters commands
at this point will the golem obey all of Billys commands?
so spellcaster dies the spell says the golem will obey the last command givn to him by the spellcaster
so will it still obey Billy assuming it ever would?
what if Billy tells the golem obey all of Jimmy Preahers commands after spellcaster is dead
will it obey Jimmy's commands?

Yes.

also is there any way for the spellcaster of create golem to regain the lost sdc other than by getting pscyhical skills when he levels?

He could become a Juicer or find some other form of augmentation in order to gain more SDC.
IIRC, Bio-wizardry can give somebody more SDC.
There's a limit, of course, and some of the fixes would be worse than the problem.

edit also how much is the going rate for a golem if you want to buy one? Ballpark figure

Good question with no official answer.

I'd look at it as if it was a robot.

A skelebot would go for CR 3 million on the black market.
CR 3.5 million for a labor Dyna-Bot.

That gives a rough ballpark, but there are a lot of factors:
-The creating Wizard has to give up some SDC permanently, so golems aren't going to be mass-produced like robots are. They'll be a bit rarer.
-Golems probably wouldn't be great at learning new skills; you can't just add a program. You'd have to teach the thing. They'd have a real-world IQ of 60, which makes them officially retarded, but at that level a human would be still able to learn simple skills, so a Golem probably could too. But it would take time and patience. Overall, I think the easy programming of robots would make them more valuable.
-Robots have their own power supply, which lets them use guns (and presumably some types of tools) without worrying about having to charge them.
-Golems, on the other hand, don't have to have their power source changed out every x years.
-Robots have more MDC, often by quite a lot.
-Golems, on the other hand, regenerate lost MDC for free.
-Golems are impervious to a number of damage types, and take half damage from pretty much everything else.
-Golems are impervious to Telemechanics and hacking.
-Robots have special sensors that Golems don't have.

Overall, I'm guessing that the price would net out much the same.
You might get more in some areas and less in others, and it depends on customer demand, but there you have it.

I had a thread about golems a while back, and in it we come up with quite a few ideas for getting the most from your golem.
Might want to check it out.

[Mercdog]

In answer to the second part there about selling golems... Sorry, but, while a wizard could sell his creation to the highest bidder, it is still the wizard's creation and will obey him above anyone else. Not sure of any canon references to this, but it makes sense considering the process of golem creation involving a lengthy ritual ending with the wizard permanently sacrificing part of his own life force in the form of 6 SDC, thus effectively bonding the golem to him in a way. From the Golem's point of view, the wizard is his creator, Master and reason for existing. Don't bite the hand.

Theorhetical
While a potential client would need an accomplished spell caster to perform the Ritual, would it be possible for the person wishing the golem created substitute their own blood/6 S.D.C. for the spellcasters, and thus provide the symbolic sacrifice in order to bind the Golem to themselves rather than the spell caster?

[Damian Magecraft]

In answer to the second part there about selling golems... Sorry, but, while a wizard could sell his creation to the highest bidder, it is still the wizard's creation and will obey him above anyone else. Not sure of any canon references to this, but it makes sense considering the process of golem creation involving a lengthy ritual ending with the wizard permanently sacrificing part of his own life force in the form of 6 SDC, thus effectively bonding the golem to him in a way. From the Golem's point of view, the wizard is his creator, Master and reason for existing. Don't bite the hand.

Theorhetical
While a potential client would need an accomplished spell caster to perform the Ritual, would it be possible for the person wishing the golem created substitute their own blood/6 S.D.C. for the spellcasters, and thus provide the symbolic sacrifice in order to bind the Golem to themselves rather than the spell caster?

As per the RAW there is nothing to indicate this to be the case.
Nor is there any thing to indicate that it is forbidden .

That being said... as a GM I would allow such an act.

[csbioborg]

I'm taking KC suggestion that you cast enchant weapon on a golem to the bank
that ups the golem right up to 500 mdc which seems like a pretty good deal
that makes the golem a much more viable threat

[JuliusCreed]

In answer to the second part there about selling golems... Sorry, but, while a wizard could sell his creation to the highest bidder, it is still the wizard's creation and will obey him above anyone else. Not sure of any canon references to this, but it makes sense considering the process of golem creation involving a lengthy ritual ending with the wizard permanently sacrificing part of his own life force in the form of 6 SDC, thus effectively bonding the golem to him in a way. From the Golem's point of view, the wizard is his creator, Master and reason for existing. Don't bite the hand.

Theorhetical
While a potential client would need an accomplished spell caster to perform the Ritual, would it be possible for the person wishing the golem created substitute their own blood/6 S.D.C. for the spellcasters, and thus provide the symbolic sacrifice in order to bind the Golem to themselves rather than the spell caster?

As per the RAW there is nothing to indicate this to be the case.
Nor is there any thing to indicate that it is forbidden .

That being said... as a GM I would allow such an act.

Seconded. As blood is usually a very symbolic element in spellcasting in many ways I could see that working. As a GM i would allow it. Others might not, but that's them.

[Cinos]

Unable to figure out the paradox, the golem self destructs.

[X'Zanthar]

You can also put the ritual on a scroll and sell that. Thus the scroll's caster is the true master, and donor of SDC.

A TW enchanted Golem is quite possible and probably expensive. Speed, strength, immunity to energy, armor of ithan, etc. You could argueably add sensors to the thing before enchantment.

Time and cost would be very high, but having a regenerating robot.....