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Forgive us, we are truly newbs, but with a HtH : Basic or similar, how many Attacks per Melee round do typical level 1 characters get? (exclude boxing for now)

In the bast I thought it was 1 or 2 plus the 2 Attacks from HtH: Basic

Insight, please? Please be kind to us ignorant newbies.

That depends on what game you're playing, and when.
Originally, it was 1 attack per melee for people with no HTH training, and whatever the HTH base was if they were trained.
At some point between SB1 and Atlantis, Palladium added in two extra attacks for anybody with HTH training.

So originally somebody with HTH Basic would start with 2 attacks per melee, and now they start with 4.
In Rifts, at least.
Not sure what the status is in Palladium's other games.

Killer Cyborg wrote:That depends on what game you're playing, and when.
Originally, it was 1 attack per melee for people with no HTH training, and whatever the HTH base was if they were trained.
At some point between SB1 and Atlantis, Palladium added in two extra attacks for anybody with HTH training.

So originally somebody with HTH Basic would start with 2 attacks per melee, and now they start with 4.
In Rifts, at least.
Not sure what the status is in Palladium's other games.

Really? That is how were playing in Rifts. 2 + 2 from the HtH: basic.

I am thinking about knocking them back to the original 2 attacks from HtH only. Is it clearly stated anywhere?

dante144 wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:That depends on what game you're playing, and when.
Originally, it was 1 attack per melee for people with no HTH training, and whatever the HTH base was if they were trained.
At some point between SB1 and Atlantis, Palladium added in two extra attacks for anybody with HTH training.

So originally somebody with HTH Basic would start with 2 attacks per melee, and now they start with 4.
In Rifts, at least.
Not sure what the status is in Palladium's other games.

Really? That is how were playing in Rifts. 2 + 2 from the HtH: basic.

I am thinking about knocking them back to the original 2 attacks from HtH only. Is it clearly stated anywhere?

RUE page 347
now includes the 2FL in the 1st level write up of all HTH forms.
IE:
HTH Basic.
Level 1: starts with four attacks per melee

And so on for each of the HTHs

Killer Cyborg wrote:That depends on what game you're playing, and when.
Originally, it was 1 attack per melee for people with no HTH training, and whatever the HTH base was if they were trained.
At some point between SB1 and Atlantis, Palladium added in two extra attacks for anybody with HTH training.

So originally somebody with HTH Basic would start with 2 attacks per melee, and now they start with 4.
In Rifts, at least.
Not sure what the status is in Palladium's other games.

in Heroes Unlimited (1st ed and revised) The NPCs always had two more APM than the HTH allowed for. It was assumed by most that all PCs started with 2 attacks. (I would swear I actually read in a book printed prior to RMB that all PCs start with 2 attacks... although I cannot at this time recall which book it would have been.) I will consult my books and get back to you on that.

Damian Magecraft wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:That depends on what game you're playing, and when.
Originally, it was 1 attack per melee for people with no HTH training, and whatever the HTH base was if they were trained.
At some point between SB1 and Atlantis, Palladium added in two extra attacks for anybody with HTH training.

So originally somebody with HTH Basic would start with 2 attacks per melee, and now they start with 4.
In Rifts, at least.
Not sure what the status is in Palladium's other games.

in Heroes Unlimited (1st ed and revised) The NPCs always had two more APM than the HTH allowed for. It was assumed by most that all PCs started with 2 attacks. (I would swear I actually read in a book printed prior to RMB that all PCs start with 2 attacks... although I cannot at this time recall which book it would have been.) I will consult my books and get back to you on that.

It's been printed numerous times that "All PCs start with 2 attacks..."
The thing is, that passage is usually followed by a passage saying, "All NPCs start with 2 attacks..."
And since NPCs don't start with 2 attacks in addition to their HTH Combat Skill, it's safe to assume that the 2 attacks being referred to are the "2 attacks per melee to start" provided by every standard HTH Combat skill other than Assassin.

The wording has always been weird.

dante144 wrote:Forgive us, we are truly newbs, but with a HtH : Basic or similar, how many Attacks per Melee round do typical level 1 characters get? (exclude boxing for now)

In the bast I thought it was 1 or 2 plus the 2 Attacks from HtH: Basic

Insight, please? Please be kind to us ignorant newbies.

PFRPG; Number of attacks without any HtH skill is 1. HtH Basic, Expert and Martial Arts all start with 2 at level 1, HtH Assassin starts with 1.

Ninjas and Superspies OR Mystic China: No HtH starts with 2 attacks. HtH Basic, Expert, Martial Arts, Assassin and the specific Martial Arts forms start with the number of attacks indicated in their description at first level, anywhere between 1 and 4.

All other Palladium games (to the best of my knowledge) No HtH skill starts with 2 attacks. HtH Basic, Expert and Martial Arts start with 4 (initial 2 that all characters have plus 2 more from 1st level HtH proficiency), HtH Assassin starts with 3 (Same as the other HtH skills, but 1st level in HtH Assassin says only 1 additional attack)

Thanks for the clarification, guys!

dante144 wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:That depends on what game you're playing, and when.
Originally, it was 1 attack per melee for people with no HTH training, and whatever the HTH base was if they were trained.
At some point between SB1 and Atlantis, Palladium added in two extra attacks for anybody with HTH training.

So originally somebody with HTH Basic would start with 2 attacks per melee, and now they start with 4.
In Rifts, at least.
Not sure what the status is in Palladium's other games.

Really? That is how were playing in Rifts. 2 + 2 from the HtH: basic.

I am thinking about knocking them back to the original 2 attacks from HtH only. Is it clearly stated anywhere?

2 Attacks for Being Alive + Hand-to-Hand Combat Skill + Boxing + Special OCC/RCC add ons.

Most Combatants would have 4 Attacks at Lvl One. 2 (alive) + 2 (HtH) = 4

RUE changed this.
They Have a HtH Chart now. No HtH Training (1 Attack, 2 Non-combat), Basic/Expert/MA (4), Assassin (3). and so on. They decided to do the Math for you. Which I dislike.

Greengoat wrote:So, if I am understanding this right:

PFRPG: Most trained PCs have 2 attacks.
Rifts: Most trained PCs have 4 attacks.

To convert between the two, is it just a matter of adding two attacks on top of anything that pops through the PFRPG dimension (in addition to the rest of the info in the Conversion Book?)

Is there any drawbacks to using the RUE No. of attacks in Palladium? Do you just have to bolt two extra attacks on all the monsters and NPCs that are already published.

Thanks folks. Just trying to make sense.

that all depends...
Some NPCs already read as having the 2fl actions others do not.
As a GM you may want to give the critter a look over first.
(not every writer could agree on the 2fl thing).

Greengoat wrote:So, if I am understanding this right:

PFRPG: Most trained PCs have 2 attacks.
Rifts: Most trained PCs have 4 attacks.

To convert between the two, is it just a matter of adding two attacks on top of anything that pops through the PFRPG dimension (in addition to the rest of the info in the Conversion Book?)

Is there any drawbacks to using the RUE No. of attacks in Palladium? Do you just have to bolt two extra attacks on all the monsters and NPCs that are already published.

Thanks folks. Just trying to make sense.

Best to ask in the PFRPG section; I've heard it argued both ways there.

Generally the easy way to tell what rules the book you're looking at goes by is this:
If it the HTH list stars off with '+2 attacks' or so, add 'two more for living'.
If it says 'starts with 4 attacks' or similar, that's it. It's supposed to simplify things, but they went with the other method for so long it just causes confusion.
Main examples I know of with only two attacks are folk without HTH at all. Though newer stuff has changed up HTH 'None' as well, gives more 'non-combat actions' now, or some such.

What's best for your game?

More attacks = more options = longer combats

Play around with the numbers and find what works before for your group. Since most of my PB games are convention events, I find that a lesser number of attacks is better for new players.

I always went with 2 to start, and then added more for every hth bonus for each hth the character had... of course we played uber massively overpowered games, so to crank up the stats on ninjas, I would add the apms on every level that the ninjas and superspies books said they got new attacks in addition to the 2 to start with, and if they had more then one form, they got the additions to all the forms... really helped balance things since main pcs were a mutant that was invisible with magnetism and another that was stone with super speed, lol... so what if that puny ninja only has 25 sdc, he can dodge and parry you all day long and at the end of a round when you are out of attacks, he still has 12+ left, so he can dance around you doing all sorts of backflips and things, and do a few rounds of punches and kicks on you too... all before you get to do anything else next round... doubt he'll get past your incredibly high natural ar rating though.

dante144 wrote:Forgive us, we are truly newbs, but with a HtH : Basic or similar, how many Attacks per Melee round do typical level 1 characters get? (exclude boxing for now)

In the bast I thought it was 1 or 2 plus the 2 Attacks from HtH: Basic

Insight, please? Please be kind to us ignorant newbies.

As per PF2 & RMB canon, Basic hth gives 2 APM @ L1
As per HU1r, HU2, RGMG, RUE, canon, Basic hth gives 4 APM @ L1
As per N&S canon, Exactly what the MAF says you get to start.
mecinoids each char gets 1 apm
PF1 each class has a h2h unique to that class so can't be a part of this comairison.
recon has combat rules different from the rest of the PB game settings.

In the RMB the H2H tables do state that they give a "+2 APM". However the Rifts Main Book never gives ANY base APM to the chars. I have concluded that this was due to a bad copy and pasting job from the H2H of the HUr book. The bad part is they left out any base Hero APM "for living". This caused a bit of confusion in the IRL gaming group I was with at the time.
This mistake was corrected with the RGMG where all the h2h were revised to be up to date with the HU2 standard of HEROS getting 2 apm to start ("For Living") +additional apm from their H2H.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:In the RMB the H2H tables do state that they give a "+2 APM".

Odd.
My copies only say "two attacks per melee," stated as if it's describing the number of attacks at first level, with no indication that this is supposed to be added to anything.
HTH Marital Arts even says, "Two attacks per melee to start."

JuliusCreed wrote:Ninjas and Superspies OR Mystic China: No HtH starts with 2 attacks.

Are you saying that a character who does not have a HtH skill gets two attacks? Because all the O.C.C.s in N&S and MC have access to either "name" martial arts or the basic HtH styles.

JuliusCreed wrote:HtH Basic, Expert, Martial Arts, Assassin and the specific Martial Arts forms start with the number of attacks indicated in their description at first level, anywhere between 1 and 4.

Depends on which version of N&S you use.

Killer Cyborg wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:In the RMB the H2H tables do state that they give a "+2 APM".

Odd.
My copies only say "two attacks per melee," stated as if it's describing the number of attacks at first level, with no indication that this is supposed to be added to anything.
HTH Marital Arts even says, "Two attacks per melee to start."

My soft cover RMB has it with "+2 attacks per melee".... but my hard cover RMB has "Two attacks per melee"....
or I might be remembering the soft cover text incorrectly.... (haven't look at that book in years) I would have to check to make sure.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:In the RMB the H2H tables do state that they give a "+2 APM".

Odd.
My copies only say "two attacks per melee," stated as if it's describing the number of attacks at first level, with no indication that this is supposed to be added to anything.
HTH Marital Arts even says, "Two attacks per melee to start."

My soft cover RMB has it with "+2 attacks per melee".... but my hard cover RMB has "Two attacks per melee"....
or I might be remembering the soft cover text incorrectly.... (haven't look at that book in years) I would have to check to make sure.

If you check, let me know what printing it is.

Killer Cyborg wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:e added to anything.
HTH Marital Arts even says, "Two attacks per melee to start."

My soft cover RMB has it with "+2 attacks per melee".... but my hard cover RMB has "Two attacks per melee"....
or I might be remembering the soft cover text incorrectly.... (haven't look at that book in years) I would have to check to make sure.

If you check, let me know what printing it is.[/quote]

Just looked (3rd printing) and found I was remembering incorrectly, though I could of sworn it was C&Ped incorrectly.