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I had a couple of questions about MD EBA's and figured that this would be the best place to ask them.

1) Is it possible for someone to snap the neck of someone who is wearing EBA?
1A) What PS would you need to snap someone's neck (unaugmented/augmented/robotic/supernatural)?

2) How much protection does EBA offer for the neck area?
Example: A CS Military Specialist sneaks up on an enemy sentry wearing full EBA and the Military Specialist stabs the enemy sentry in the neck to quickly and quietly kill the guard.

1) Depends on the armor, some yes, some no, it depends on the positioning of the plates on the shoulder and helm, and the limits the neck is allowed to contort to.

1A) I wouldn't have it go down to just PS, but a roll, like Entangle + Deathblow or something, rather then raw PS. Robotic and Supernatural however should just get to if they grab you by the neck (snap nothing, they can just crush it).

2) Again it depends on the armor you're talking about, some offer pretty narrow slits in the joints, others are wide open. In my games, I rule that all EBA armor have at least an undercoating of a type of Kevlar bonded on several levels to make it as durable as it needs to be to survive modern combat (Similar to the Triax line of Plain Clothes armor). It offers enough to stop perhaps a shot, or a glancing hit, Vibro blades, and Rail slugs get through it very easily, while it is designed to help counter Laser and Plasma from cooking the wearer. Meaning a Vibro to the neck, assuming it is placed right, does the trick well. Some armors are build to counter this weakness (often a the cost of visibility / mobility for the user).

After reading this, I don't think I've offered any real help here

I have always figured that it has at least an wet suit like material made from MDC material. I figure that it provides at least 1 MDC for light suits of armor, 2 for medium suits of armor, 3 for heavy, and 4 or more for power armors.

I know in the real world it's not just a matter of strength to snap someone's neck, and you don't need to be high level because (from what I have been told, at least) all Marines are trained in being able to snap a person's neck before they graduate from boot camp. But I also figure it will take at least a minimum amount of strength, and a higher PS score let's you do it more easily.

On a side note about snapping necks, I figure it gets exponentially harder to snap the neck of someone if your strength category (normal/augmented/etc.) is lower than your targets. (e.g. You have a normal PS of 22. If your target's PS category is augmented, you take a -4 to your roll, if it is robotic, then you take a -16, and if it is supernatural, then you will take a -36 to snap their neck)

dragonfett wrote:I had a couple of questions about MD EBA's and figured that this would be the best place to ask them.

1) Is it possible for someone to snap the neck of someone who is wearing EBA?
I'd say no.
The greatly reduced damage from falling and high speed impacts indicates that the suits are not only padded, but that the joints are designed in such a way that they protect limbs from being twisted and broken.
Neck too.

2) How much protection does EBA offer for the neck area?
Example: A CS Military Specialist sneaks up on an enemy sentry wearing full EBA and the Military Specialist stabs the enemy sentry in the neck to quickly and quietly kill the guard.

Up to the GM.

Palladium tends to have their armor designed to avoid instant kills, though.
Most body armor, for example, has a helmet that has over 1/2 the MDC of the main body.
Might as well go with that thinking and give the neck MDC equal to 60% of the helmet.

As a GM, I consider EBA to have a number of 'weak' points where yes a vibro blade can be slipped into for a quick clean kill.

Areas such as under the armpits, inside of the elbows, back of the knees, the groin, and up under the lip of the helmet all need to be flexible in order for the wearer to be able to move. By that rational the neck can be broken as well.

So you assign A.R. to M.D.C. armor? I bet your games are very brief.

Why couldn't the neck be designed for flexibility without allowing the head to be turned far enough to break the neck?

Under the lip of the helmet would HAVE to be the most vulnerable spot just for one reason, they have to get the helmet on, therefore, there needs to be a large enough of a hole on the bottom of the helmet to allow for it to be slipped on over the head. But I also figure that the neck area has some MDC protection to protect the neck against flying shrapnel from MD blasts and explosions.

I haven't run a game yet where this issue came up, but a while back I was in a game where I was playing Juicer (who had an augmented PS of 45 IIRC) and I went to go snap a guard's neck and my GM at the time told me that I could not snap the guard's neck because his armor prevented from getting the head to turn all of the way to the point that I needed (even with my character's strength). I had started thinking about that episode yesterday which led me to that first question which also led me to that second question. I had a third question that was unrelated to EBA's, but I had forgotten what it was before I had finished my post and I still can't remember what it was. Must not have been that important.

dragonfett wrote:Under the lip of the helmet would HAVE to be the most vulnerable spot just for one reason, they have to get the helmet on, therefore, there needs to be a large enough of a hole on the bottom of the helmet to allow for it to be slipped on over the head.

Assuming that it is indeed slipped over the head, not clam-shelled around the head with a hole for the neck.
And with that assumption, there could still be pieces that snap/zip/whatever into place underneath the chin to protect it (and the throat).

But that would severely limit the head's range of motion. In that scenario, I would have to say that it's optional.

lather wrote:So you assign A.R. to M.D.C. armor?

No I don’t assign AR to MDC armor; I just use common sense that a vibro blade can be slipped in between the armored plates of EBA. Think of the knights of medieval times. Like those wearing EBA, they were armored from head to toe and yet the armor had places where you could slip a dagger into.

lather wrote:I bet your games are very brief.

Yeah my PBP games on http://www.rpol.net would be pretty brief if I didn’t give my players a way to kill enemy sentries wearing full EBA silently or allow those same characters to break the neck of a guard wearing full EBA while trying to escape after being captured and stripped of their gear.

lather wrote:Why couldn't the neck be designed for flexibility without allowing the head to be turned far enough to break the neck?

The very flexibly of the neck is what allows it to be easily broken. I guess you could immobilize the neck/head (which is the case with most power armors) but then you’d need an oversized helmet big enough for the operator to move his head around in.

dragonfett wrote:But that would severely limit the head's range of motion. In that scenario, I would have to say that it's optional.

That would depend on how it's constructed, really.
But it's all guesswork, of course. No official answers on any of it.

jedi078 wrote:

lather wrote:So you assign A.R. to M.D.C. armor?

No I don’t assign AR to MDC armor; I just use common sense that a vibro blade can be slipped in between the armored plates of EBA. Think of the knights of medieval times. Like those wearing EBA, they were armored from head to toe and yet the armor had places where you could slip a dagger into.

Very few knights had environmentally sealed body armor.

lather wrote:I bet your games are very brief.

Yeah my PBP games on http://www.rpol.net would be pretty brief if I didn’t give my players a way to kill enemy sentries wearing full EBA silently or allow those same characters to break the neck of a guard wearing full EBA while trying to escape after being captured and stripped of their gear.

Do you let NPCs return the favor on PCs?
Also, do you allow snipers to shoot for the vulnerable points?

lather wrote:Why couldn't the neck be designed for flexibility without allowing the head to be turned far enough to break the neck?

The very flexibly of the neck is what allows it to be easily broken. I guess you could immobilize the neck/head (which is the case with most power armors) but then you’d need an oversized helmet big enough for the operator to move his head around in.

The neck flexes to a certain point before breaking. That's why we don't snap our necks every time we look from side to side.
The armor could be designed to allow that level of mobility, and no more.
So full mobility, but no breaking point.

Killer Cyborg wrote:Very few knights had environmentally sealed body armor.

Yeah but you get my point that both EBA and armored knights did not have armor that protects every single point of the body. Now in my games I do have characters wear an under suit with their armor (this makes the suit EBA BTW) which is made of MDC fibers, thus a vibro blade is needed to get past the weak points.

Killer Cyborg wrote:Do you let NPCs return the favor on PCs?
Also, do you allow snipers to shoot for the vulnerable points?

Yes I do try to kill PC's with head shots, and have in fact killed a few as well. You can ask any of my players (a few of whom are on the forums) that I don’t coddle them, but yet I do give them chances to survive an encounter. Even if that chance means running away.

As it is my players seem to enjoy the ‘fear of death’ present in my games.

Killer Cyborg wrote:The neck flexes to a certain point before breaking. That's why we don't snap our necks every time we look from side to side.
The armor could be designed to allow that level of mobility, and no more.
So full mobility, but no breaking point.

Full (or even partial) mobility means you'd have a braking point.

Anyhow here is how you CAN break the neck of somebody when they are wearing a helmet.
http://books.google.com/books?id=ytqa-y ... &q&f=false

jedi078 wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:Very few knights had environmentally sealed body armor.

Yeah but you get my point that both EBA and armored knights did not have armor that protects every single point of the body. Now in my games I do have characters wear an under suit with their armor (this makes the suit EBA BTW) which is made of MDC fibers, thus a vibro blade is needed to get past the weak points.

Every part of the body is protected, and yes, the joints will be less protected as well as other area.
The question is HOW less protected.
Based on the armor stats, where a helmet has over half the MDC as the main body, I think that even the joints would have significant protection, more than enough to withstand a single strike from a vibro-knife (at least with most EBA).
Somehow, armor seems to have proportionately more MDC the smaller the area.

Killer Cyborg wrote:Do you let NPCs return the favor on PCs?
Also, do you allow snipers to shoot for the vulnerable points?

Yes I do try to kill PC's with head shots, and have in fact killed a few as well.

Not head shots; shots at these gaps that you could slip a knife through.
If a vibro-blade can make it through a vulnerable spot under the arm, a laser blast should be able to as well.

As it is my players seem to enjoy the ‘fear of death’ present in my games.

I often run things with much the same style.

Killer Cyborg wrote:The neck flexes to a certain point before breaking. That's why we don't snap our necks every time we look from side to side.
The armor could be designed to allow that level of mobility, and no more.
So full mobility, but no breaking point.

Full (or even partial) mobility means you'd have a braking point.

Anyhow here is how you CAN break the neck of somebody when they are wearing a helmet.

Right.
It's not that tricky, with today's technology.
But that's the problem.
IF there isn't some sort of compensation for that kind of damage, then not only would the damage from falling and high-speed impact be a lot higher than it is, but you could kill a fully MDC-armored opponent with an SDC weapon.
Because if you can snap somebody's neck with your hands, you can snap their neck by shooting them in the head with a .50 BMG round, or a grenade launcher with an SDC payload.
Hell, you could probably do it with a bean-bag round.
Maybe a shotgun at close range.

And if THAT can happen, then the entire scope of the game shifts, as MDC armor isn't anywhere near as impressive as it's supposed to be, and the CS isn't anywhere near as much of a threat is it's supposed to be.

Killer Cyborg wrote:If a vibro-blade can make it through a vulnerable spot under the arm, a laser blast should be able to as well.

Of course, but you'd have to literally press the a laser pistol up under someones armpit to kill them. A sniper could place a laser blast into the eye of someone wearing EBA or if they can get the angle under the armpit, or maybe in the neck. This makes a sniper type character with a JA-11 in rifts more purposeful then just a designated marksman.

Killer Cyborg wrote:I often run things with much the same style.

...and yet you argue against the ability to snap a sentries neck even if they are in EBA.

Killer Cyborg wrote:Right.
It's not that tricky, with today's technology.
But that's the problem.
IF there isn't some sort of compensation for that kind of damage, then not only would the damage from falling and high-speed impact be a lot higher than it is, but you could kill a fully MDC-armored opponent with an SDC weapon.
Because if you can snap somebody's neck with your hands, you can snap their neck by shooting them in the head with a .50 BMG round, or a grenade launcher with an SDC payload.
Hell, you could probably do it with a bean-bag round.
Maybe a shotgun at close range.

And if THAT can happen, then the entire scope of the game shifts, as MDC armor isn't anywhere near as impressive as it's supposed to be, and the CS isn't anywhere near as much of a threat is it's supposed to be.

Yep, the kinetic force behind a 12.7x99mm, bean bag round or close in shotgun blast is probably more then enough to snap someone's neck even if in EBA. So could a burst from a railgun. Granted I don't take things that far in my games (well maybe if a nat 20 is rolled) because as you have pointed out it would disrupt the balance of the game. As it is the balence I want in my games means that a player can snap the neck of someone in EBA, jam a knife into a weak point or make a precise aimed called shot at such a weak point in order to attain a quick clean kill.

jedi078 wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:If a vibro-blade can make it through a vulnerable spot under the arm, a laser blast should be able to as well.

Of course, but you'd have to literally press the a laser pistol up under someones armpit to kill them. A sniper could place a laser blast into the eye of someone wearing EBA or if they can get the angle under the armpit, or maybe in the neck. This makes a sniper type character with a JA-11 in rifts more purposeful then just a designated marksman.

So yes, you allow it.

Killer Cyborg wrote:I often run things with much the same style.

...and yet you argue against the ability to snap a sentries neck even if they are in EBA.

Yup. Because it doesn't make sense in the given world.
I make things deadly other ways, and if the PCs need to take out a sentry silently, I let them do it in other ways.

Yep, the kinetic force behind a 12.7x99mm, bean bag round or close in shotgun blast is probably more then enough to snap someone's neck even if in EBA. So could a burst from a railgun. Granted I don't take things that far in my games (well maybe if a nat 20 is rolled) because as you have pointed out it would disrupt the balance of the game. As it is the balence I want in my games means that a player can snap the neck of someone in EBA, jam a knife into a weak point or make a precise aimed called shot at such a weak point in order to attain a quick clean kill.

Everybody finds their own balance of realism that lets them sustain their suspension of disbelief.
For me, it's simplest to just assume that EBA is designed in such a way that limbs can't be broken and necks can't be snapped. It makes more sense for me that way, then to assume that it isn't designed that way, but that people somehow never break limbs or necks from falling damage, or from getting hit by a railgun burst, or by being run over by a speeding truck or body-checked by a flying SAMAS.
A lot of the times, RPGs are like a sweater. You pick to hard at a loose thread, and the whole thing collapses.

lather wrote:So you assign A.R. to M.D.C. armor? I bet your games are very brief.

Why couldn't the neck be designed for flexibility without allowing the head to be turned far enough to break the neck?

Mechanically no, there is no AR or a need for it, the requisite for survivability take precedent, I do allow Deathblows with Melee Weapons to bypass armor, coupled with a called shot attack to mimic hitting between the plates. It's rather difficult and has not affected balance any more then a Glitter Boy liquefying dudes through armor.

As to the second part due to the difference inherant in solid plate vs a mesh armor. If you can move that directly, you can be moved that direction, any head movement past the shoulders enters risky territory when you deal with things which can bend / snap your armor with their hands in the first place, those joints are going to be weaker due to thinning of plates for space / mobility reasons, and against that style of force, shaped plates which could be reasoned for helms high M.D.C (deflecting energy away) won't help.

dragonfett wrote:Under the lip of the helmet would HAVE to be the most vulnerable spot just for one reason, they have to get the helmet on, therefore, there needs to be a large enough of a hole on the bottom of the helmet to allow for it to be slipped on over the head.

Because helms in this day and age can't have moving parts or sealing plates built into the chin? I agree it's likely to be weaker, but it's more likely a joint which must move constantly to be the weakest point. Also, whoever suggested groins an open area has blanked out the codpieces on some of these suits (not that I blame you)!

Cinos wrote:

lather wrote:Because helms in this day and age can't have moving parts or sealing plates built into the chin? I agree it's likely to be weaker, but it's more likely a joint which must move constantly to be the weakest point. Also, whoever suggested groins an open area has blanked out the codpieces on some of these suits (not that I blame you)!

I was referring tot he fact you can slip the vibro blade in between the leg and cod piece of some armors. Although art work shows us a number of armors that offer more protection to the groin such as the Gladiator, and Crusader.

lather wrote:I bet your games are very brief.

Yeah my PBP games on http://www.rpol.net would be pretty brief if I didn’t give my players a way to kill enemy sentries wearing full EBA silently or allow those same characters to break the neck of a guard wearing full EBA while trying to escape after being captured and stripped of their gear.

Do you let NPCs return the favor on PCs?
Also, do you allow snipers to shoot for the vulnerable points?[/quote]

Yes actually. He's also really good about spreading around damage too. A nat 20 will almost always hit somewhere vulnerable and less armored to create a real problem (PA that looses its Shoulder joint, destroid that gets a hard core shot to the pilot's compartment, etc). If you survive in one of Jedi's games, you've accomplished something. He's a killer GM, but he's also a hyper fair GM who will give you the benefit of the doubt as long as you're not stupid. One thing to remember, just because you're a highly skilled sniper, doesn't mean you're going to hit dead on mark everytime in combat. And add in less skilled riflemen into the mix and you have a pretty fair game. When we go up against elites, we know it. They don't shoot like mooks, act like mooks, or die like mooks. Still, no doubt one way or the other, Most everyone who plays his games come back for more, so he must be doing something right as a GM.

On to the actual discussion, I'm a fan of you being able to do hand to hand combat with someone in EBA and it matter. It won't hurt the EBA in the slightest, but it will knock the person inside all around. If the head of the EBA turns with your head, then your neck can be broken. Sure its harder, but its hardly impossible.

What I would do if I had this come up a lot is work out a system of saving throw type attacks for knockouts, and then coup de grace's once they are down are a simple matter. A sleeper hold might bring on a PE based save against a 16 or 18, while a deathblow like the neck snap would PE save vs 12 or 14. My numbers are off (I just came up with them off the top of my head after all) but the concept remains - follow the poison save numbers in concept and you're golden. You have to be trained in the maneuver though. Once you get Deathblow you get the ability to do this manuever. Non-lethal comes with the ability to knockout from behind.

But truth be told, this sort of thing I will usually narrate through. Either you get up to the guard and can kill him, no roll needed, or you don't and you're in a fight for your life. Perhaps not the most fair method, but the best for storytelling. If I pull the same on a PC, it's usually non-lethal (and they had to mess up some perception rolls hard core). Or if I use that to kill someone, they were dead before the thought of dice being rolled entered the equation. A scripted death is rarely fair. I have only killed someone arbitraily like that once, and we rezzed her character later as part of the plot (obviously not in Rifts).

MikelAmroni wrote:

Yeah my PBP games on http://www.rpol.net would be pretty brief if I didn’t give my players a way to kill enemy sentries wearing full EBA silently or allow those same characters to break the neck of a guard wearing full EBA while trying to escape after being captured and stripped of their gear.

Do you let NPCs return the favor on PCs?
Also, do you allow snipers to shoot for the vulnerable points?

Yes actually.

Cool. As long as PCs are getting their necks snapped and insta-killed, then turnabout is fair play.

When we go up against elites, we know it. They don't shoot like mooks, act like mooks, or die like mooks.

I've never used mooks, though I've played in D&D 4.0 games that had Minions.

So does that mean that Marines right out of Boot Camp have Hand to Hand: Expert/Martial Arts at level 15 proficiency, or Assassin at level 12, or Commando at level 9? All because they are taught in techniques of eliminating unsuspecting enemies quietly and quickly. I honestly don't consider snapping someone's neck to be a death strike for the fact that if you don't take them by surprise, you are going to have to grapple them, get behind them if you didn't do that already, and then attempt to snap their neck, all the while they are resisting you doing this. The death strike ability described in the hand to hand maneuvers don't seem to be this, but rather some sort of hard hand/weapon strike aiming for like the temple on someone's head, or a punch that stops the target's heart. I can certainly understand why he didn't make the death strike ability available until later levels, but I don't totally agree with it due to the fact that there are different ways to kill a person that death strike really doesn't take into account in my opinion.

dragonfett wrote:So does that mean that Marines right out of Boot Camp have Hand to Hand: Expert/Martial Arts at level 15 proficiency, or Assassin at level 12, or Commando at level 9? All because they are taught in techniques of eliminating unsuspecting enemies quietly and quickly.

Who are you talking to?

I honestly don't consider snapping someone's neck to be a death strike for the fact that if you don't take them by surprise, you are going to have to grapple them, get behind them if you didn't do that already, and then attempt to snap their neck, all the while they are resisting you doing this. The death strike ability described in the hand to hand maneuvers don't seem to be this, but rather some sort of hard hand/weapon strike aiming for like the temple on someone's head, or a punch that stops the target's heart. I can certainly understand why he didn't make the death strike ability available until later levels, but I don't totally agree with it due to the fact that there are different ways to kill a person that death strike really doesn't take into account in my opinion.

Not all insta-kills are death strikes.

dragonfett wrote:So does that mean that Marines right out of Boot Camp have Hand to Hand: Expert/Martial Arts at level 15 proficiency, or Assassin at level 12, or Commando at level 9?

From my experience U.S. Marines pretty much had H2H Expert until the Marine Martial Arts program came about. A system which doesn't translate very well into Palladium game rules because as you progress in the program you literally go from having H2H basic, to Expert then Martial Arts.

From a gaming perspective, I have always considered 'deathblows' to simply be called shots. Face it in an SDC game if your character states "I'm going to shoot him in the head with my pistol" or "I'm going to chop his head off with my sword" your simply making a 'called shot' to target a specific hit location (i.e. the head/brain) in which the other character can't continue without. We see this type of strike roll all the time in TV shows, movies and books, and it happens to good guys and bad guys alike. So to allow this kind of thing to occur in an RPG (i.e. instant kills) help to add cinematics and coolness to a characters actions. How much would it suck if you shot some bad guy in the face with an SDC pistol and the GM states "Well he's still got hit points, so you didn't kill him."

Now the whole 'death blow' on a nat 20 simply means when you roll a nat 20 you automatically snuff the guy out, much the same as you knock someone out if you have the boxing skill.

jedi078 wrote:

lather wrote:So you assign A.R. to M.D.C. armor?

No I don’t assign AR to MDC armor; I just use common sense that a vibro blade can be slipped in between the armored plates of EBA. Think of the knights of medieval times. Like those wearing EBA, they were armored from head to toe and yet the armor had places where you could slip a dagger into.

lather wrote:I bet your games are very brief.

Yeah my PBP games on http://www.rpol.net would be pretty brief if I didn’t give my players a way to kill enemy sentries wearing full EBA silently or allow those same characters to break the neck of a guard wearing full EBA while trying to escape after being captured and stripped of their gear.

lather wrote:Why couldn't the neck be designed for flexibility without allowing the head to be turned far enough to break the neck?

The very flexibly of the neck is what allows it to be easily broken. I guess you could immobilize the neck/head (which is the case with most power armors) but then you’d need an oversized helmet big enough for the operator to move his head around in.

Oh? What makes it common sense? Where anywhere in the rules or descriptions of either EBAs or vibro-blades does it become common sense? What if I were to say it's common sense that armor designers on Rifts Earth do not build poorly designed armors or waste efficiency of the armor on constructing underwear rigid enoug but not too rigid that can allow the wearer to survive in the vacuum of space and the crushing pressures of the ocean floor and mega damage? Would you be convinced that it was common sense?

By brief, I'm talking about combat not lasting very long because if all you need is a successful called strike in order to kill your EBA-clad opponent.

Or you could after a certain degree of rotation prevent the helmet from moving further. While it's 2011 and helmet designs haven't progressed much over the centuries, there are no body armor systems into which helmets are as tightly integrated as they are on Rifts Earth. Again, in order to sell their product, I'd say it's common sense that armor designers don't produce crap.

It's your house rule, and that's cool, but that doesn't make it common sense that armor design has never adapted according to the threats encountered on the field of battle.

Just some quick thoughts...

If you introduce a bonebreaker mechanic for snapping someones arms, legs, necks, etc., I'd suggest a set difficulty and damage. Say for example, the damage for a breaking attack is 2D6 plus the pc's PS damage bonus, if the damage inflicted is greater than the victims PS or PE (whichever is greater), then their bone is broken or wrenched out of the socket and useless. If the neck is snapped, then the victims Hit Points are reduced to zero and they must make a save vs. Coma/Death. A declared breaking attempt should cost 2 attacks/actions (one to grab, one to break).

Say Bob the Juicer wants to take down a merc sentry with a quick neck-snap. We'll just assume that Bob is attacking with surprise.
1. Bob rolls to Strike for his Neck hold.
2. Merc sentry gets to attempt an escape as per the rules listed under Holds.
3. Bob rolls damage to snap the merc's neck. Difficulty for the roll is 15 (assuming a PE or PS of 15), Bob rolls a 10 for damage plus +10 for a PS 25. The merc's neck snaps, and his hit points are reduced to zero. If Bob had rolled low, say a 2, then the merc would take 12 SDC damage from the wrenched neck, but now has another chance to slip out of the hold.

Of course you'd likely want to add situational modifiers based on armor, Supernatural PS or PE of the attacker vs. victim, etc.

Killer Cyborg wrote:never used mooks, though I've played in D&D 4.0 games that had Minions.

No, I am certain you've used a mook or two in your time - though I have no doubt you called them that. By mook I mean the guys that individually don't have a chance against the PCs, but in large enough quanities they can get real lucky. They don't end up dodging as well as the PCs, don't shoot as well, and rely a lot more on luck. Elites are usually at least equal to the PCs. To use a Robotech paradigm - Zentraedi Battle Pods with a Foot soldier in them with a rifle are mooks. A Female Power Armor piloted by an Ace is an elite, as is the Warlord in the Officer pod leading 3 battle pods for every destroid and veritech in the group.

MikelAmroni wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:never used mooks, though I've played in D&D 4.0 games that had Minions.

No, I am certain you've used a mook or two in your time - though I have no doubt you called them that. By mook I mean the guys that individually don't have a chance against the PCs, but in large enough quanities they can get real lucky. They don't end up dodging as well as the PCs, don't shoot as well, and rely a lot more on luck.

Hm.
Perhaps, though I can't recall any examples off hand.

I wouldn't allow it with military EBA. There is no reason for the helm to turn any further than what's possible for the soldier's range of motion and plenty of reasons to reinforce the back/sides of the neck to protect the wearer.

However, huge supernatural or robotic PS might allow you to break off the helm, possibly ripping the head off as well.

I've always found the individual location MD values way too high. I usually cut them in half for NPCs. And of course, any damage to a location counts toward the main body total.